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RandyT:

Actually, Darren, there is a ton of info out there about optical controls.  Which is really overkill for the most part, since virtually all of them require only 4 connections.  5vDC, Ground, Data A and Data B.  If your trackball has 8 wires coming out of it, it very, very likely has these 4 wires duplicated for each axis.   Usually the 5v and ground from each optical board are tied together and brought out into the same connector for 6 wires.  But not always.

And I haven't yet found an optical arcade control that the Opti-Wiz hasn't been able to talk to.  You should really refrain from making definitive (and speculative as well) statements about products you have never used, and apparently do not understand.

As a side note, optical spinners (the kind which read the surface of a cylinder) are not very accurate.  This type of technology is great for a relative pointing device like a mouse, where one routinely re-adjusts the physical position of the device, but probably not for a more absolute control like a spinner.  I actually did this and offered them for sale about 8 years ago (might even have an old photo around).  But they didn't take off, and in retrospect, it's no wonder.  They did work ok and it was an interesting concept back in the days of low-resolution, traditional encoder wheels, but certainly not very impressive by today's standards, given the availability of small, high tech, high resolution and reasonably priced solutions.

If you still want to hack a mouse, by all means do so.  They are all different inside.  Some work, some don't.  The designers don't care that they may not work when you hook your arcade controls to them, because they only need to work with the components they put inside the mouse in question.  Additionally, virtually no-one uses a ball mouse anymore, and those are the kind you would be looking for.  In the old days, it was common to tear apart a popular mouse brand and document it so it was easy for others to find it "in the wild" and follow suit.  Today, there is literally no such animal.  You may be able to find the old ball mice (mouses?) from time to time, at a thrift store or a flea market, but hacking is something you'll most likely need to approach on your own, especially if it's not a model that has been documented.  You may have success and you may not.  Even if you do, you may not be able to find that model again...at least not easily.  Those who consider time to be equal to money, obviously find the dedicated controllers to be more attractive because they are documented, reliable and easily sourced.  That's the big difference.

RandyT

ark_ader:


I use:

I get them from the pound store and they are really tiny and work in lots of projects.  They are crap for desktop use but very good for spinners.

The problem is I cannot buy enough of them when they are in stock.  ;D

bkenobi:
That's a ball mouse, right?  Darren wants to hack an optical or laser mouse to hook up to a spinner/trackball.  They are not built the same, so I'm pretty sure he's asking a different question than what that mouse will solve.  I tried to give him a hacked mouse or two a while back, but he wants to do things differently.   :dunno

D_Harris:

--- Quote from: D_Harris on February 22, 2010, 07:54:47 pm ---(I'm beginning to hate the "Why the hell would you hack a mouse when you have a MiniPac? question).
--- End quote ---
Perhaps that continued response should tell you something...

Yeah. That people have no respect for what you want to do if it is not the way that they would do it.


--- Quote ---If you think it is too difficult then fine. But I'd like to use what I already have.

--- End quote ---
I believe my response was they're both simple. However, a mouse hack is usually junk, and will not outlast a quality arcade grade interface.

As long as it's done correctly, a mouse hack should be just as reliable as the original mouse.


--- Quote ---As for the Opti-Wiz. If your trackball or spinner is compatible. And if all the optics of your spinner or trackball are working, then in order for it to be plug and play you would not have to hack the cable.
--- End quote ---
So you'd hack a mouse, but not a cable to connect to a trackball\mouse? Why the distinction?

What distinction? Again. I have more than one mouse that I didn't have to pay for or get shipped to me. Why use a controller for a 5 button cp if it can be done with a mouse?

As far as your ifs - I challenge you to find me a trackball or spinner that is an arcade grade or actual arcade model that is not compatible with the interfaces stated above.

What for? I never stated I had a trackball or spinner that was not compatible with the interfaces stated above.


--- Quote ---I have several Arkanoid and Midway spinners, as well as a Tornado, and a several Atari  trackballs(Mini, Midi, & Maxi). So even though there are no pictures on this site documenting how they are hooked up to any of the existing controllers, I assume they would work, because there is no way I'd add to the cost by buying another just for a controller.
--- End quote ---

How many trackballs and spinner panels do you plan on making anyways? Please don't tell me this is going to be a frakenpanel. You've already stated you've got multiple interfaces, why go through all the extra hassle for an interface that won't last and may require constant adjustment?

I assume that the stated third party solutions never need adjustment. (Not that I know what kind of adjustment you are referring to).


--- Quote ---A mouse can be hacked to any of these original arcade trackball or spinners, which I prefer over the third party solutions available now anyway.
--- End quote ---
True - but will it be durable? Probably not.

Mechanical parts failure is not an issue with the optics from a mouse, so what durability are you referring to?


--- Quote ---And a 4 or 5-button mouse would give me more options than my Tornado spinner and I'd only need to use the included single USB mouse cable.
--- End quote ---

Same amount of wires - not getting your point here...

The point is what was said. The 5 button spinner cp I'm building first cannot be done with just the Tornado spinner I have. But it can be done with a 5 button mouse.


--- Quote ---The MiniPAC or Hydrogen can be used for the more complicated control panels
--- End quote ---

So how many panels are we talking about?

I'm working on one cp at a time and the 5 button cp is my first concern.

I have an idea; why don't you clearly and concisely state what your end result will be and we can give you a correct solution, rather than dancing around and pulling bits and pieces from you one tooth at a time...


??? My "end result" is a 5 button cp...

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

D_Harris:

--- Quote from: RandyT on February 22, 2010, 11:32:01 pm ---
Actually, Darren, there is a ton of info out there about optical controls.  Which is really overkill for the most part, since virtually all of them require only 4 connections.  5vDC, Ground, Data A and Data B.  If your trackball has 8 wires coming out of it, it very, very likely has these 4 wires duplicated for each axis.   Usually the 5v and ground from each optical board are tied together and brought out into the same connector for 6 wires.  But not always.


--- End quote ---
I thought that this would be the site that documents hardware pin-outs for hacking. (I'll have to look elsewhere).

--- Quote ---
And I haven't yet found an optical arcade control that the Opti-Wiz hasn't been able to talk to.  You should really refrain from making definitive (and speculative as well) statements about products you have never used, and apparently do not understand.


--- End quote ---
??? What definitive statements are you referring to? (And what is wrong with speculative statements?). Your site says, "Compatible with virtually any device utilizing "Active Low" opto-electronics". Based on that I made the assumption that the Opti-Wiz would work with the spinners and trackballs I have. What statement did I make that you have a problem with?

--- Quote ---
As a side note, optical spinners (the kind which read the surface of a cylinder) are not very accurate. 


--- End quote ---
Finally. This is the kind of information I was searching for when I made the first post. (And I assume you are referring to optical mouse hacks). What's the resolution of the Opti-Wiz?

--- Quote ---
This type of technology is great for a relative pointing device like a mouse, where one routinely re-adjusts the physical position of the device, but probably not for a more absolute control like a spinner.  I actually did this and offered them for sale about 8 years ago (might even have an old photo around).  But they didn't take off, and in retrospect, it's no wonder.  They did work ok and it was an interesting concept back in the days of low-resolution, traditional encoder wheels, but certainly not very impressive by today's standards, given the availability of small, high tech, high resolution and reasonably priced solutions.


--- End quote ---
The optical mouse I have here is a Logitech MX-518. Was your hack for a spinner or trackball?

--- Quote ---
If you still want to hack a mouse, by all means do so.  They are all different inside.  Some work, some don't.  The designers don't care that they may not work when you hook your arcade controls to them, because they only need to work with the components they put inside the mouse in question.  Additionally, virtually no-one uses a ball mouse anymore, and those are the kind you would be looking for.  In the old days, it was common to tear apart a popular mouse brand and document it so it was easy for others to find it "in the wild" and follow suit.  Today, there is literally no such animal.  You may be able to find the old ball mice (mouses?) from time to time, at a thrift store or a flea market, but hacking is something you'll most likely need to approach on your own, especially if it's not a model that has been documented.  You may have success and you may not.  Even if you do, you may not be able to find that model again...at least not easily.  Those who consider time to be equal to money, obviously find the dedicated controllers to be more attractive because they are documented, reliable and easily sourced.  That's the big difference.

--- End quote ---

Well if time were equal to money the mouse would still be cheaper for me.(Finding X.Y. power, & ground isn't that difficult). Perhaps it's my part of the country, but ball mice are easy to find. (And they are all I've ever used with my computers).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

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