Star Wars - fully working!

[Spyridon]

Okay, I checked the fuses and they are all good.

Next I want to check the transistors, but I'm unsure of how to test these.  Can someone explain (in detail) the process for testing them.



(thanks in advance)

[Level42]

Set your DVM in diode test mode. Now check between all the legs in all kind of combinations (so reverse test leads on same pins). Your DVM may beeb but should give a reading like 0.5 or something like that, or should be "infinite). As soon as you have a beep and a value of 0, you got a short.

This is my quick and dirty way, of course there's a much more scientific B-C-E testing way, but usually may way is quicker.

You can remove the transistors from the seats by gently pulling them so you can test them out of circuit, but pulling the connectors loose on the deflection board is quicker.

I knew I had made some pics of the track problems I had on the 6100 I worked on and I found them:

This clearly shows the crack. Also note the TERRIBLE soldering ! It's a "bulb" instead of a "fuji"......



Here's how it looked after desoldering:

[Level42]

O and here's another classic:



A component lead that never got touched by any solder in 25 years. This was on the neck-board.....
Check out how all the other solderings were done......see and weep....

[Spyridon]

I tested the two transistors on the side of the monitor cage.  They both tested fine.  I'm not sure I can get to the bottom ones without removing the monitor.

[Level42]

Of course you can test them on the connectors on the deflection board too.

[Spyridon]

Of course you can test them on the connectors on the deflection board too.

Good point.  That should make things easier. 

[Spyridon]

I've been reading up on transistors so that I can learn some more about what I'm doing.  According to what I've read, there should be three parts: the base, collector, and emitter.  Looking at the picture below, I have 5 pins?  I was expecting only three.  How do I tell what is what?  The two without wires are different than the other three, so I can probably assume the three with wires are the 3 elements.




Bear with me on what may seem like dumb questions, but I'm treating this as a learning experience.

[Level42]

Not a dumb question. Those transistor holders are pretty weird things.

Every transistor has three cpnnections only. What you see (yellow arrow) is where the pin of the transistor is inserted into the holder. That metal holder is connected to the solder "eye" of that holder (pointed by the green arrow).  Try to measure between them in diode test and you will hear a beep (and 0 reading) as they are directly connected.

Now, I already hear you say, where is the third pin ?

The third pin is not there. The metal case of the transistor is the third connection. This is why the third solder-eye is connected to the screw.

[Spyridon]

Okay, I think that makes sense.  Thanks!

[Kevin Mullins]

Typically if it didn't blow a fuse those transistors are most likely still good. (should still check them though) Not only look for dead shorts, but also if one is comeletely OPEN then it's bad as well.

Absolutley can not stress enough to check every pin for bad solder joints.
Especially the header pins for the connectors that lead to those larger chassis mounted transistors..
If you find ANY bad solder joints around those header pins, check the small resistors and transistors in that general area.

Spot killer LED being on indicates you are missing at least one of the axis. (X or Y)
Which in turn shuts the beam completely off in order not to burn the screen.

[Level42]

Indeed !

Now get that monitor out of the cab and put it on a workbench where you can work on it properly.

Screw loose the deflection board and turn it over and check those connector solderings !

If that's the problem you owe me a Pac Man joystick !



......wait a minute.........


you already sent me a Pac Man joystick 

[Kevin Mullins]

Found a pic.... crappy as it may be..... of what can be found just due to the header pin solder joints cracking. I didn't grab a pic of the underside though, sorry.
This was from the last 6100 I repaired. Lots of solder joints especially on those particular header pins, one resistor and one transistor. Less than a $1 to fix.

Worth checking the fuse holders as well. Sometimes they loose tension on the fuse itself.
Or get kinda crusty from oxidization.

[SirPeale]

If you want to look at the screen at the same time, a makeup mirror from a cosmetics case (like rouge) comes in handy.  I carry one in my toolbox.

Your arms must be longer than they appear... I certainly can't hold a mirror in front of a monitor and get my arm around the side of the cab with enough line of sight to safely adjust a monitor.  I don't see any mention that he has pulled the thing out of the cab.

The trick is to get a grasp on the pot before you stick the mirror out there, then start your adjustments.

Of course it also depends on the cab.  Something really deep, like a Tunnel Hunt - forget about it.  Get a stand mirror.

[ChadTower]

  Get a stand mirror.

I have decided that a 9 year old is sufficient to hold the mirror. 

[Kevin Mullins]

  Get a stand mirror.

I have decided that a 9 year old is sufficient to hold the mirror. 

If you are like me, it's always the little girl that wants to "help".
Then they spend more time looking into the mirror than holding it for ya.

[ChadTower]

If you are like me, it's always the little girl that wants to "help".
Then they spend more time looking into the mirror than holding it for ya.

Heh... I only have boys... but I do spend most of the time saying "Ryan stop turning the mirror... stop turning the... dammit boy just stand on this piece of paper... now turn it back... argh"

[Spyridon]

Now get that monitor out of the cab and put it on a workbench where you can work on it properly.

Screw loose the deflection board and turn it over and check those connector solderings !

I need to get an HV probe to discharge this before I pull the monitor.  Will this one work: eBay link?

[Level42]

Are you planning on getting out the chassis only, or the complete monitor. I don't know how the WG6100 is fixed in your cab ? (the only upright I worked on has an Amplifone).

If you're not removing the HV cup there's no need to discharge it. If you do remove the HV cup, yes discharge.

[Kevin Mullins]

You can remove just the main chassis without removing the HV cage........they unplug from each other without having to remove the HV anode.
But if you find many bad solder joints on the main chassis you may want to check the HV pcb for joints as well.

And the probe you pointed at is designed to plug into a Fluke meter for measuring the HV, not discharging it.

[ChadTower]

As I keep saying... the fact that he doesn't know these things... means he shouldn't be working on a charged monitor.

The advice you're giving is only safe to those who already understand it.

[HaRuMaN]

Well... if he doesn't come back to ask for more advice...  we'll know he's dead.

[Level42]

So, you say Spyridon is incapable of _learning_ things ?  

[Level42]

Well... if he doesn't come back to ask for more advice...  we'll know he's dead.

Spyridon ?

SPYRI !!!! SAY SOMETHING !





I still want somebody to show me PROOF of someone who DIED because of touching HV from a TV or monitor. There's no POWER behind it. If you would understand how an HVT works, you KNOW this.

That doesn't mean that I advice people to lick under the HV cup......

I think Spyridon is the one who should make the decision what he will and won't do on the monitor. He can always send it to Arcadecup or someone else who does repairs.

Tell you what Spyridon, send me the boards and I'll fixe them for you no charge.




"Hey kid, listen, don't have sex, you know it's unsafe"
"OK dad"........

[ChadTower]

I still want somebody to show me PROOF of someone who DIED because of touching HV from a TV or monitor. There's no POWER behind it. If you would understand how an HVT works, you KNOW this.

Note that it isn't me talking about death.  I'm well aware odds are very low it will kill you.  It WILL ---fudgesicle--- up your day, though, and I do know a guy who has permanent nerve damage in his arm from it.  I saw it happen to one guy whose arm shot out straight and threw the flathead screwdriver hard enough that it embedded itself 4" deep in the sheet rock 6' away.

If I thought Spyridon was incapable of learning I would be suggesting he not touch the monitor at all.  What I am suggesting is that until he has a strong idea of how these things work that he should be discharging it every time.  This just isn't a good tradeoff for saving 2 minutes worth of time discharging the tube.

[Spyridon]

[HaRuMaN]

Hey...  he's not dead! 

Either that, or the Grim Reaper hijacked his account...

[Level42]

My uncle.

Did TV repairs for a couple of decades. Has been "struck" by HV a good number of times. Still pretty healthy

And I am forever grateful as he was the inspiration to get an electronics education, I admired him TOTALLY when I watched him repair TVs.... funny how things come round

He's teaching me convergence here ! 

I was touched by the HV a month or two ago. Believe it or not, it happened when I tried to measure HV with a probe ! Don't know what happened (old probe) but I agree, it was not a feeling I have a strong desire for.

[Mauzy]

I was always told that the injuries you sustain from that kind of shock are more from losing control of your muscles during the shock which could send your hand flying through the neck of the tube or get yourself sliced up on the monitor frame or even embed a screw driver 4 inches into sheet rock as Chad said. At least thats what my grandfather told me. He worked in TV repair for a few years. Whether or not he took a direct shock from the anode I don't know, but knowing him he would do it on purpose just to prove a point....

[m_mcgover]

Will this one work: eBay link?

No.  that one only goes to 6000V (6KV).  You want want that is at least 30kV.  Fluke makes a probe similar that goes to 40kV.  that is what you want.

[Spyridon]

Here are the instructions in the Star Wars manual on removing the monitor:


Seems like the standard procedure you would use on a raster monitor.  I thought this wasn't recommended for vector monitors?

[orion]

Well I have learned that monitors can certainly bite you pretty hard when your poking around with them and don't know what your doing. I honestly don't know what the odds are that you can get electrocuted, but I do know that I once managed to get such a nice zap that it singed some of my arm hair off. The smell of ozone and burnt hair... lovely. I also learned not to adjust horizontal width coils with standard allen wrenches. The main thing I learned is to ASK YOU GUYS FIRST before I go playing around willy nilley with these things, cause at the very least, getting shocked can hurt like hell! My thought is to better be safe than sorry and to just discharge the damn thing before messing with it, even if you know what you are doing.

[Level42]

Here are the instructions in the Star Wars manual on removing the monitor:


Seems like the standard procedure you would use on a raster monitor.  I thought this wasn't recommended for vector monitors?

I don't know this from experience so be warned, but I can't understand why discharging a vector would be any different then raster. You short (via resistors or not) the tube and nothing else is involved.
At least, that's theory.

Also interesting to read:
"The video display contains a circuit for discharging the CRT high voltage to ground when power is removed." And that's normally the case, unless it fails. But in this world of claims and lawsuits, no-one is taking chances....

[Spyridon]

I just need to find enough time to sit down and work on this. 

I will fix it!!!!!

[orion]

I just need to find enough time to sit down and work on this. 

I will fix it!!!!!

How many machines are you working on right now BTW? Didn't you just score quite a few more?

[Malenko]

Your arms must be longer than they appear... I certainly can't hold a mirror in front of a monitor and get my arm around the side of the cab with enough line of sight to safely adjust a monitor.  I don't see any mention that he has pulled the thing out of the cab.

Yeah cause theres no way he could sit the mirror on a table or prop it up on something.......

[ChadTower]

I don't know this from experience so be warned, but I can't understand why discharging a vector would be any different then raster. You short (via resistors or not) the tube and nothing else is involved.

Depends what you short it to... short it to the cement on your floor and you're fine.  Short it to the frame, as most people do,
and you may or may not ever see use of those frame grounded drivers again without that resistor. That's the difference.

[Spyridon]

How many machines are you working on right now BTW? Didn't you just score quite a few more?

No, I didn't pick up any more (other than SW and AD).  I've got major restorations going on Pac-man and Centipede.  Those are the two that will take over my life once the weather gets warm enough (snowing here today).

Front Line just needed the joystick fixed and a new CPO.  Star Wars wasn't meant to be worked on other than replacing the yoke overlay.  This monitor issue needs to be fixed so I can start stripping the parts out of Pac-man and Centipede.

(Oh, but I've got several projects lined up once these are done so don't worry.     Gyruss will probably be up after Centi and Pac are done)

[orion]

How many machines are you working on right now BTW? Didn't you just score quite a few more?

No, I didn't pick up any more (other than SW and AD).  I've got major restorations going on Pac-man and Centipede.  Those are the two that will take over my life once the weather gets warm enough (snowing here today).

Front Line just needed the joystick fixed and a new CPO.  Star Wars wasn't meant to be worked on other than replacing the yoke overlay.  This monitor issue needs to be fixed so I can start stripping the parts out of Pac-man and Centipede.

(Oh, but I've got several projects lined up once these are done so don't worry.  P   Gyruss will probably be up after Centi and Pac are done)

You are getting snow at this time of year??? Wow!!! We only get snow once a year if we are lucky and even a half inch of snow shuts everything down here. I thought you were working on several machines, but I didn't recall that the Front line was nothing major. Two major restorations at once though is a lot of work. I hope you get this monitor fixed, it's nice of level 42 to offer to fix the boards for you though if you get in to much of a jam with it. Sounds like a major PITA you got going on with it right now (all I can offer is "good luck" with it, as its well beyond me) As always I will be looking forward to seeing The Gyruss and these other projects get underway (not to sound like I'm rushing you, but you do always do really good work)

[Spyridon]

Okay, I decided to play it safe.  Also, now that I have two vector games, it made sense to have the proper tools.  I have just ordered a Fluke HV Probe (80K-40)


I considered pulling the monitor without discharging (after leaving it turned off for a few days), but decided against that once I read the instructions in the manual on how to remove it.  You need to disconnect the annode wire to remove the game.  No use taking any changes.  Proper tool is on the way.

[ChadTower]

Now that is definitely optional but good to have.  I use a long screwdriver with a heavy wire, one end clipped to the screwdriver shaft and the other to the metal frame, then slide the flathead tip under the cap to the anode clip.  You do need to be mindful of where your hands are but it does work fine and I know a lot of good techs who do it that way on location.

FWIW, that POP you read about doesn't always happen.  In fact I've never seen it happen.  The most I've seen is a little blue spark when discharging the tube before putting the anode back on (yes, always discharge a second time).  Don't be surprised if you see nothing visible at all.