Betson Imperial: Image "squished" on side

[mwoody]

Just got a Betson Imperial 27" monitor.  It has some purple discoloration in the lower left, but I've read that it will go away with time and once mounted in a cabinet (here's hoping).  More annoying than that, however, is an odd "squishing" effect in some resolutions.  On either one or both edges, the image is pushed together at the edge of the picture.  Here are example pics, in Windows and Nokia Monitor Test:


These buttons should, of course, be the same size.

That's not a circle.  What's more, it appears the right side of the screen is cut off in this resolution, as that purple line is missing!

I've played with every setting I can find, both in the operator's menu and out, but I can't seem to find a control that will fix this problem.  This effect is extremely annoying, as it makes side scrolling arcade games "warp" as the background scrolls, quickly inducing headaches.  What controls should I be looking at to fix this problem, assuming I can fix it at all?

Thanks in advance!

[jimj]

Sorry, no answer or ideas, but misery loves company.  I have a similar problem, although it's not as bad as yours.  Did you ever get your problem solved?

My screen seems to have a bunch of thin vertical lines along the left and right edges.  This makes the screen blurry near the edges.  My pics of the WinXP desktop don't show this very well, so I've pasted some pictures from the Nokia Monitor test program that show strangeness along my edges.

I've also noticed near the edge of my screen that text seems to wrap back into the monitor.  These effect didn't show up well in my pics either, so I didn't post any of these.  It isn't very bad, but it is noticeable.

Below are the pics from my Nokia Monitor test.  In the first pics notice how much clearer the middle boxes are than the corner boxes.  The 2nd pic is a closeup of the bottom left corner.
blurrycorneredges.JPG
blurrybottomleftcornercloseup.JPG

The next two pics are from the moire screens.  The first pic shows that the screen gets darker as you approach the right edge.  In the 2nd pic you can see that the vertical lines get squished together as you approach the left edge.
moiredarker.JPG
moiresquishedverticallines.JPG

Adjusting the moire settings in the monitor does not help the squished lines.

My most serious problem with this monitor is that I have major discoloration in the bottom right hand corner.  From what I've read here, and what the Betson service tech told me I'm hoping that the manual degaussing coil I've ordered will solve this. 

Are these problems normal for to have on a new arcade monitor?  They really haven't bothered me much in MAME yet (other than the discoloration), but that could just be because I have hardly gotten to play MAME at all since I got this monitor.  If this is something serious I'd like to take care of it now while my monitor is new enough that Betson will help me out.  Did I get a lemon?  Can I fix these problems myself?  Should I complain to Betson?

Thanks,
Jim

[Dave_K.]

Guess I'll chime in here too.  I also have a squished side problem but only in 15khz mode.  Using the hidden operator linearity men adjustments, I was able to get the geometry looking perfect in vga modes...unfortunaly not for 15khz mode.   

Regarding the purple haze, try moving the monitor to a new location (or simply rotating 90 degrees), as you may be getting magnetic interference from power tools, outlets, and other things that may be laying around..

Some other tips (given in the service manual) is to orient the monitor east, and leave on for 30 minutes before making adjustments.

[grueinthebox]

jimj: Try to find an adjustment for moire in the regular or hidden menus...  If that adjustment exists, it looks like it should be able to fix the problem in the first pic.  Adjusting that out may or may not help with the problems in the other two...

[big daddy]

I have similar moire problems on my betson, though mine weren't as bad as the ones you have in your pics.  I only notice it on the nokia screens..I don't notice it at all on any of my games and it's limited to a much smaller area then your pics show (the right and leftmost edges maybe a half inch out)  I tried the moire adjustments on the regular menus (to know affect)...hadn't tried the hidden menus yet

[mamerocks87]

Could my problem with the bent in screen this problem be related? My corners are blurry too. My post is the one labled (monitor picture is bent...). Are you using arcade vga also?

-Kyle

[big daddy]

not sure if it's the same, but I am using the arcade vga card

[jimj]

First off, some details I left out of my last post.  I'm using the " Betson Imperial 27" Multisync arcade monitor" aka "Kortek KT-2914" that's reviewed here: http://www.retroblast.com/reviews/betson.html
I have it hooked up to the ArcadeVGA video card.

To mwoody:  To fix the "right side of the screen is cut off" you can use the monitor controls to shift your screen to the left and/or decrease its horizontal size.  I've had to do that for several arcaded resolutions.  You only have to do it once, however, since the Betson will remember your tweaks for each resolution (even after you turn it off).

In the retroblast review Kevin says that the picture was "very crisp and sharp".  On my monitor I find that text is a bit blurry all across the screen, but especially so on the edges.  I haven't really noticed this while playing games yet, but it is annoying that in Mamewah the list of games is a little blurry.  Is there a monitor control that would affect blurriness?

jimj: Try to find an adjustment for moire in the regular or hidden menus...  If that adjustment exists, it looks like it should be able to fix the problem in the first pic.  Adjusting that out may or may not help with the problems in the other two...

My first pic makes the moire problem look much worse than it is in real life.  I don't even think I have a moire problem.  With the first pic (and second) I was only trying to illustrate the difference in sharpness between the center squares and the corner squares.  Unfortunately the moire effect which showed up in the first picture is much more noticeable than the real problem with blurry edges I was trying to illustrate.  FWIW I did play with the moire adjustments, but they didn't seem to affect my blurry edges at all.

Could my problem with the bent in screen this problem be related? My corners are blurry too. My post is the one labled (monitor picture is bent...). Are you using arcade vga also?
-Kyle

This is my first arcade monitor I've dealt with, so I'm afraid I only have questions, no answers.    I'm watching your thread now also to see if any useful suggestions pop up that I can try.  I would guess that we don't have the same problem as I have no bent edges.  I also have a pincushion control, so in theory I could fix bent edges if I had them.

[jimj]

I've found that changing the "H Linearity" setting from the default of 30 to 0 helps a little bit.  Maybe this would help mwoody's squished edges?  Does anyone have a listing of all the monitor's default settings?  I'd like to see if my settings are the correct defaults.

[Dave_K.]

The default setting are whats originally set in the hidden operators menu, if you change those then you are screwed.  In the normal user menu mode you can set it back to default (or whats saved in the hidden menu) by hitting the restore function.

The Service manual (which goes through the menu options) is located here http://www.retroblast.com/files/KT-XX14X-SM.pdf

[Flinkly]

ok, chiming in also, running a betson with the avga card and have been getting headaches for weeks trying to read menus that exist close to the side of the screen.  i, like everyone else have no answers since i'm new to the arcade monitor scene, but i'm gonna keep looking back here for some answers.  maybe if someone could get kevin to look in here and provide his knowledge, or even ken layton.  anyways, heres hoping for resolution (no pun intended).

[jimj]

The default setting are whats originally set in the hidden operators menu, if you change those then you are screwed.  In the normal user menu mode you can set it back to default (or whats saved in the hidden menu) by hitting the restore function.

The Service manual (which goes through the menu options) is located here http://www.retroblast.com/files/KT-XX14X-SM.pdf

It looks like I've got another broken control option then, because when I select the "Recall" option none of my settings change back.  Have you tested the "Recall" option, does it work for you?

[Dave_K.]

The default setting are whats originally set in the hidden operators menu, if you change those then you are screwed.  In the normal user menu mode you can set it back to default (or whats saved in the hidden menu) by hitting the restore function.

The Service manual (which goes through the menu options) is located here http://www.retroblast.com/files/KT-XX14X-SM.pdf

It looks like I've got another broken control option then, because when I select the "Recall" option none of my settings change back.  Have you tested the "Recall" option, does it work for you?

Yes recall works fine for me.  Recall only works in the Normal (Blue) On Screen Display, it will not work in the hidden OSD (purple) because thats the defaults you are setting.  Try chaning the zoom in your blue menu, and then hit recall and see if it sets back to whatever your default was.

BTW: I have emailed Kevin Steele, so he is aware (and watching presumably).  He said the rotation on his monitor is perfect so he hasn't tried these adjustments.

[jimj]

Yes recall works fine for me.  Recall only works in the Normal (Blue) On Screen Display, it will not work in the hidden OSD (purple) because thats the defaults you are setting.  Try chaning the zoom in your blue menu, and then hit recall and see if it sets back to whatever your default was.

Ah that was it.  Per your advice I was testing it against the normal options last night while, but I was testing while I was in the hidden (purple) OSD menu.  It does indeed work on the normal (blue) menu.  Thanks for your help.

I've just noticed another problem (that may not be related to the Betson).  When I run any vertical games that have a resolution of 288x224 (like pacman) the screen is constantly shaking.  Is there a monitor setting that can help this?  If I force pacman to another resolution the shaking goes away.

[KevSteele]

Wow, I'm off the boards for a while and this happens!

Anyway, thanks for the emails - let me see if I can add my 2cents:

A lot of these problems are inherent in arcade monitors - i.e., don't expect a PC monitor-quality picture. An arcade monitor is closer to a TV than a PC monitor, and they're not designed for high-quality sharp pictures (in other words, there's a lot more "slack" in the Q/A process!)

Discolored areas are symptomatic of a degaussing problem. Repositioning the cab sometimes helps (I've got one spot where my monitor is discolored, but moving the cab just 1 inch over gets rid of it).

You can also use a manual degaussing coil:

http://mcm.newark.com/ (unfortunately, I can't give the part number right now - their site seems broken. Just look for a large degaussing coil)

I've done this - you do the "degaussing dance", walking slowly towards the monitor while waving the coil in a circle, then walk back away. It really helped with the color purity issue on my D9200.

Blurry corners are, unfortunately, a possibility. Mine are not razor-sharp, but not as blurry as it seems some are here. You're not going to get edge-to-edge sharpness, though.

Same thing with the "squished" edges. At higher resolutions (read: 640x480 and higher), the squished edges are a definite possibility. Once again, it seems to be within the quality specs for an arcade monitor.

I don't mean to be dismissive of all this - I know my onscreen rotate command doesn't seem to do anything, but I'll have to dig around a bit to see if there's a manual adjustment pot on the boards (there usually is for rotation and focus).

Kevin

[jimj]

Thanks for the info Kevin.   It's very much appreciated.

Is there a program like the Nokia monitor test designed specifically for use at low arcade resolutions?  I.e. is there a better way to test your low resolutions other than just seeing how your arcade games look?

I've got a degaussing coil coming in the mail from happcontrols.  Will this degaussing coil, http://www.happcontrols.com/monitors/49055900.htm work for the "degaussing dance"?

[KevSteele]

Yes, the Happ coil should work - it looks like it's the coil designed for smaller monitors, but it should still work (MCM has one designed for monitors larger than 19" - it's a big ring (18-24"?), so it feels a bit like you're waving a hula hoop at your monitor.

It doesn't get any more "voodoo" than waving things at your arcade cab to fix it...

Kevin

[willyum]

Ok, so why are we accepting this from $500+ low resolution monitors.
How do we make sure to get better quality? If we don't do anything, things won't change. If I pay $500 for a working product, I want a working product!

[KevSteele]

Ok, so why are we accepting this from $500+ low resolution monitors.
How do we make sure to get better quality? If we don't do anything, things won't change. If I pay $500 for a working product, I want a working product!

You've got to understand that consumers buying these things is a very recent development - for the most part, these are parts sold to arcade manufacturers, who will be using the montior with only one (count em: one) resolution.

Even then, minor picture abberations to game manufacturers are not a major factor - most games are mostly graphics with just a small amount of text. Go look at a real arcade game sometime, and you'll be surprised at the display defects you can spot if you're looking for them.

Keep in mind here, I'm not defending the quality problems. I, too, would like a perfect arcade monitor. I just don't see there being enough of a customer base to put anywhere near enough pressure to enact changes...

Kevin

[whammoed]

Ok, so why are we accepting this from $500+ low resolution monitors.
How do we make sure to get better quality? If we don't do anything, things won't change. If I pay $500 for a working product, I want a working product!

I hear ya, but we might actually be lucky there are even 2 choices for monitors like this.  We are a very small select group of people who would need a monitor like this and actually use it to the full extent of its capabilities.  I'm sure when they developed it they thought the appeal would be that you could use the monitor for various applications...i.e. one resolution at a time...not all resolutions on one machine.

[Dave_K.]

Ok, so why are we accepting this from $500+ low resolution monitors.
How do we make sure to get better quality? If we don't do anything, things won't change. If I pay $500 for a working product, I want a working product!

You've got to understand that consumers buying these things is a very recent development - for the most part, these are parts sold to arcade manufacturers, who will be using the montior with only one (count em: one) resolution.

Even then, minor picture abberations to game manufacturers are not a major factor - most games are mostly graphics with just a small amount of text. Go look at a real arcade game sometime, and you'll be surprised at the display defects you can spot if you're looking for them.

Keep in mind here, I'm not defending the quality problems. I, too, would like a perfect arcade monitor. I just don't see there being enough of a customer base to put anywhere near enough pressure to enact changes...

Kevin

Kevin couldn't be more right.   In fact I was a Betson location near me today (to talk to a tech about my monitor problems), when in their demo room I noticed a game running with a monitor that was slightly off rotation!  No kidding!  And it was most likely a WG9200 as they have only recently gotten these new kortek/betson 27" monitors in stock.  As for the price, its $399 not $500+.   And it does indeed work/perform to the specification of arcade games...not the specification of PC's.  Its still a fantastic value, even though it may not be to everyones personal preference of perfection  .

I'll post the details of my visit with Betson in the other thread.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,28298.0.html