Installing G27 directly into the Control Panel of a Daytona Cab

[bsoder52]

I ran across this video of a guy who installed his G27 directly into the control panel of his Daytona. Curious if anyone on here has done something like this? I'm trying to decide to try to keep the stock components on my Daytona 2 cabs to install my G27s. I like this option because I'm not too jazzed about trying to run all the original components (not even sure what works in half the cabs) and this would alleviate the need to cut into the dash.

[buttersoft]

This is a slow board, there's no need to make more threads on the same subject. It will only fragment information that would probably be collectively helpful to others

[bsoder52]

Ok, will do! Excited about this project and just alot to take in.

[fablog]

Stay with the old stock. A G27 is fragile, and it's a big concern if you have kid's around. I did that with my Sega Nascar and it's OK, but I changed my mind after and bought it's twin sister which have the whole hardware. The  backforcefeeder is the best option for you to connect a computer to the old wiring. I'm doing it for my racing cab.
I think there is no easy solution to convert a racing cab, but if you have a working wheel, drive board and motor board, the BFF will be easier because you won't need to modify your G27.
Is your arcade able to turn on?

[Malenko]

I cut the metal of my dash with an angel grinder and a cutting wheel , trimmed the plastic with a dremel.
I know you already saw this cause you posted in my thread :p



Its a Fanatec GSR but its the same premise. I still need to wire up the shifter and camera buttons , and get a PAC LED for the camera buttons too. Big issue is the clutch pedal has to be held down 1/2 way while "mapping buttons.

[baritonomarchetto]

It's not 2010 anymore: cabinets must be preserved and original components should be preferred over third party periferals.
Yes, it could take a little more time to interface a genuine wheel, but the feeling is completely different.

[bsoder52]

I would love to keep the original steering wheel, shifter and pedals if I can. I agree that they are fantastic components. As I've looked into what to do I have to admit I get scared when I start seeing wiring charts and diagrams posted though and I don't have soldering skills for PC boards. I can solder wires and use heat shrink sleaves, but that is the extent of my electrical wiring capabilities. I believe I can solder wires to pots as well, but that's about it. I'm going to continue to gut the machines but going to try to cleanup the wheel/shifter/pedals and see if they pedals are functional. (One set seemed ok I think the other 2 sets are seized up). Anyone want to volunteer to be my mentor in the process? LOL i'll proly need a good one. This approach is a bit daunting to say the least ha.

What about the buttons needed to run emulation while keeping the original components? There would be no exit button on the original cabinet as an example.

[baritonomarchetto]

Yes, converting a cabinet the right way takes a lot of time and efforts. But please believe me when I say that removing excellent, factory components and replace them with commercial PC peripherals by cutting and drilling a genuine cab will not stop your daytona hunger. It's not hiding PC peripherals into your cab that will turn it into a working daytona (phrase of the week ).
If I was you, I would start with a simple gamepad hack. No force feedback, no lamp outputs... Only wheel, pedals and buttons/switches. In the process you will take confidence with soldering, your own cabinet architecture and your ideas will clear. Then you can stop or go on and start studying an approach
to FF. I started this way. Recently I developed a (open) JVS to PC interface, and a good number of other arcade dedicated, custom interfaces. Nothing special: it's just to say that it is possibile to improve starting from zero

About the limited number of buttons in racing games: a smart approach to increase the number of messages/keystrokes is the use of a shift button. When the shift button is held pressed, any other button sends a different key. Most commercial and DIY cab to pc interfaces adopt such a solution but also those gamepad to keyboard softwares could be used

[fablog]

You don't have to solder anything if you use
this and  this
    Connect them to the different boards inside your cab and to the BFF. Configure the BFF software and that's it!
I try to do my own cables but it's not an obligation. The most difficult part is to get a wiring diagram for your cab and search which wire goes where.
The BFF creator have a thread in the gamoover forum, you should check there. It's in French (hint: google translate) but they speak English too.

[bsoder52]

Interesting, which boards would I need to keep to run a PC and save the original game controls? Also, am I able to use the monitors with the PC somehow or should I look to sell those and replace with LCD TVs?

[bsoder52]

I have to say I do like the idea of just getting the wheel/pedals/buttons working first and I can audio out on the PC easy to some speakers as a start, and piecemail the rest of it over time.

Yes, converting a cabinet the right way takes a lot of time and efforts. But please believe me when I say that removing excellent, factory components and replace them with commercial PC peripherals by cutting and drilling a genuine cab will not stop your daytona hunger. It's not hiding PC peripherals into your cab that will turn it into a working daytona (phrase of the week ).
If I was you, I would start with a simple gamepad hack. No force feedback, no lamp outputs... Only wheel, pedals and buttons/switches. In the process you will take confidence with solder and your ideas will clear. Then you can stop or go on and start studying an approach
to FF. I started this way. Recently I developed a (open) JVS to PC interface, and a good number of other arcade dedicated, custom interfaces. Nothing special: it's just to say that it is possibile to improve starting from zero

About the limited number of buttons in racing games: a smart approach to increase the number of messages/keystrokes is the use of a shift button. When the shift button is held pressed, any other button sends a different key. Most commercial and DIY cab to pc interfaces adopt such a solution but also those gamepad to keyboard softwares could be used

[fablog]

You need to keep everything but the I/O board and the big computer case. You could keep the monitor, but it's more complicated and I don't see the point if you want to play 3D games. Check the Philips curved monitors...you can put it in front of the bezel so you can keep it. I have the 322E1C (1080p) but for my new cab I will buy the 2K version.

Envoyé de mon ONEPLUS A6013 en utilisant Tapatalk

[buttersoft]

You could keep the monitor, but it's more complicated and I don't see the point if you want to play 3D games.

Sacrilege. I will grant it's a labour of love, but to me the CRT  is the most important part At least keep as much of it intact as possible and pass it on to someone who can use it.

[bsoder52]

Fablog,


I'm not sure I have all the parts needed. Most of the boards have corrosion issues. All 3 of the boards with the LED indicators for the errrors have corrosion. All 3 of the sound amplifiers have corrosion. In talking with Ken at Irepairsega.com he told me that those two boards are the ones that always go and are hard to find. No never purchase them from oveseas because they are almost always bad due to corrosion.

[fablog]

No problem for all about sound., you can use computer components instead. For my first cab  I used a creative labs Inspire P7800 and a Sound Blaster X-finity pro.

You need a drive board, a motor board, and a power supply. If your drive board is dead, you could buy a FFB controller board from Aganyte (gamoover) to replace it, and in this case I think you don't need a BFF.
Here is a  tutorial about this solution.

[Malenko]

Don't let these people gatekeep your project.
It's super easy to tell someone else to buy parts and do things the most expensive way possible when you aren't the one picking up the tab or doing the work.


I tried to make all the factory ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- work for me and after I wasted enough cash, I busted out the angle grinder and now I have a cab I can play with a better wheel.

[buttersoft]

Don't let these people gatekeep your project.

I hope we aren't being heavy-handed to that point, but fair crack of the whip. Most of us have regrets about at least one project, and now realise that we could have kept things intact AND achieved a better result. Interfacing the older hardware in a driving cab isn't simple if you're starting from scratch, but driving cabs are a big project to begin with. I'd prefer to think we're urging a measure-twice-cut-once philosophy, while acknowledging we're not the ones in the driver's seat having to do the work

CRT is just my personal fetish, and i try to keep it light. Or possibly alight

[baritonomarchetto]

I am also a CRT enthusiast, but I must admit that med/high res (emulated) 3D games are not terrible on LCD (please, do not kill me now  ). Completely different is the case of low res arcades.
Anyway, let me hijack bsoder52 thread for a reply or two and update me:
1- am I wrong or at today a PCB for Sailorsat's/bigpanik arduino MEGA solution has not been developed? Something to solder components on (or buy already assembled) and then plug and play into a daytona cab?
2- Model 1 and 2 had I/O boards, while Model 3 i/o was built-in on game board, right?

I am starting to think that a "universal", simple, i/o board with only inputs (no lamps, no FF) could help in a project like this. It would help unexperienced people facing the project having it up and running in less time and help preserve cabinets... There is nothing like that AFAIK.
I am not saying that I will take this "hot potato" (unfortunately I have not a MODEL1/2/3 cabinet by hand): just testing the ground.

[fablog]

The BFF manage the Sega model 1/2/3. Everything is documented in what I posted previously. With it you can control the wheel, FFB, gears, switches, pedals, lamps. It uses a Mega2560 at the very high price of 20$. The most complicated thing is to understand your cab's wiring. I cut my previous cab and I'm interfacing my new one so I can say that interfacing is the easiest way to go.

Envoyé de mon ONEPLUS A6013 en utilisant Tapatalk

[baritonomarchetto]

Ok, thanks: I had overlooked the link you posted. Full of valuable informations it is. I was aware of njz3 excellent work on vjoy, but not the rest.
So that Aganyte board can be left out the equation because one could realize it on perfboard given the amount of detailed info on the project, right? Then it comes the configuration assle.
I am still of the idea that an input only solution could be less "scary" to newbies and of great use, but for sure that's the state of the art project on this topic

[baritonomarchetto]

May I ask where Aganyte's code for arduino MEGA is downloadable? Does it use njz3 code eventually?

[baritonomarchetto]

Looks like Aganyte's code is not public, right? Maybe he sells the shield board and a pre-flashed MEGA with his valuable code inside?

[fablog]

He sells the board ready to use. It's a Mega and a PCB he created.

[DIRKO]

Hi,
my name is Dirko. I just stumbled upon this thread by accident.
I am the guy that you see in this strange video ... 

As I see, a lot of people already replied to your inquiry.
I agree that it is a lot better to preserve old arcade cabinets. But it is also way more difficult to do so.

My project started when during a pinball deal I was given an old Daytona cabinet that was totally stripped, basically just the cabinet with some torn or cut wires here and there.
I did not have any experience but managed to build myself a perfect retro driving cab with >3000+ driving games from Night Driver to the latest Need for Speed 

The kids love to play Mario Kart and the friends have a blast with Outrun and Daytona USA in 16:9. I know it is heresy but it is fun!
Today I am not building any more, just playing 

It was not that difficult. For me the G27 was key. There is a special adaptor that you might still be able to hunt down. It was made professionally by the modding community so that you could use different wheels on the base of the G27. This adaptor will give you just the right amount of extra space between the control panel and the knuckles of your finger. This was the most important part. It also means that you do not have to cut the original control panel. I only had to drill the original hole for the wheel a little bit bigger. Everything else you can keep untouched.

If you have any questions feel free to ask.

[bsoder52]

Hi Dirko,

Thanks for chiming in here and thanks for posting your video it motivated me. My kid love mario cart and I love all Sega racing games.
Do you remember where you purchased the adapter or what it was called? Any help in hunting down two of them would be so much apprecaited.
I'll start looking!

Thanks again,
Bsoder52

[bsoder52]

Dirko,

Did the mod look something like this?

https://www.3drap.it/product/l-revo-qr-logitech-g25-g27-g29-dfgt/#reviews
or
https://www.amazon.com/Aluminium-Steering-Aluminum-Aftermarket-Adapter/dp/B0183G38DS/ref=asc_df_B0183G38DS/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312025988127&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=687941753504072532&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9018938&hvtargid=pla-568518988769&psc=1

Thanks

[DIRKO]

The adaptor is called Quick Release JZ G25/27/29.
It was made by a Spanish guy. His website is still online but it seems that he is currently out of stock.
https://www.simulaje.com/productos/quick-release/sistema-quick-release-jz-g25-g27-g29.html

[DIRKO]

Here is another youtube video (mind you it is from 2014):



At the 11:10 min mark you get a view from the side that gives you an idea of how "long" this adaptor is. That is exactly what you are looking for, so that you can position the basis of the g27 behind the original control panel!! This gives a little bit of play but the overall quality is extremely sturdy 
I think the other solutions might be too "short" and you will rub the knuckles of your finger against the control panel.

I bought the adaptor second-hand. The G27 was a very successful product. Hope you can still find one of those adaptors 

[bsoder52]

Thanks for find it. Yes, that looks like the best solution for my project given my needs. I filled out the "notify me" but there is no way to contact the seller. I'm in Wisconsin and winter is coming so I have to get this project done and out of the garage. Looks like I'll be cutting into the control panel yet.

[bsoder52]

I posted in Audio but figure you guys on the Driving/Racing area might know too here. I purchased a Logitech X-540 surround sound system and plan to mount the center speaker above the PC monitor, the front right and left in the dash behind speaker grills, the sub under the seat and then splice the rear speaker wires into the existing speakers in the racing seat. I know there are many internal and external soundboards out there. Looking for advice on what would be a practical solution for this build. Thanks for your help!

[buttersoft]

I'm confused again, but i may not be able to help anyway. Do you mean a PC sound card of some type? A USB sound card maybe? Or an amp that can drive all those speakers? Can you not plug the logitech X-540 directly into the PC?

[bsoder52]

PC puts out 2.1 sound and I want to run 5.1 sound. I ordered an external USB sound card to try out.

[buttersoft]

Sounds like the go.

[bsoder52]

I think I'm going to attempt to replace the pots in the Daytona2 foot pedals and then rewire them to the G27. (The G27 pedals just don't sit well in the cab IMO).

Going to follow this tutorial
https://8bitplus.co.uk/projects/building-a-sega-racing-cabinet-sega-rally/

Looking for confirmation these are the 10ohm Potentionmeters I will need?

https://www.amazon.com/Electronics-Salon-Wirewound-Potentiometer-Rheostat-Resistor/dp/B012S8Q2AI/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1VWVG7LIK49H7&keywords=10+ohm+potentiometer&qid=1666905434&qu=eyJxc2MiOiI0LjA4IiwicXNhIjoiMy42OCIsInFzcCI6IjMuNzAifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=10+ohm+po%2Caps%2C95&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1

Thanks guys!

[PL1]

Looking for confirmation these are the 10ohm Potentionmeters I will need?

Those aren't the pots you're looking for.

1. Shouldn't the mod use 10k ohm potentiometers?

2. The pots you linked to are rated for 25 Watts.
- Ohm's law shows that  a 10k pot will only draw 0.5 mA.  E /R = I ==> 5 Volts / 10,000 Ohms = 0.0005 A ==> 0.5 mA
- Power formula shows that 10k pots @ 5v only have to dissipate 2.5 miliWatts.  Current * Voltage = Watts ==> 0.5mA * 5v = 2.5mW

The pots that I like aren't made anymore, but here are some reasonably-priced pots that *might* be suitable for the mod.
https://www.amazon.com/TWTADE-Potentiometer-Single-Variable-Aluminum/dp/B07DHGV6LB/?th=1
https://www.amazon.com/TWTADE-Single-Variable-Potentiometer-%EF%BC%8CWTH118-2W/dp/B07DHGPZVJ/?th=1
https://www.amazon.com/TWTADE-rv24yn20s-Variable-Potentiometer-Regulation/dp/B07DHG5XJR/?th=1
https://www.amazon.com/TWTADE-3PCS-Potentiometer-XH2-54-3P-Connector-148-2kYE/dp/B082FCXJZ2/
https://www.amazon.com/TWTADE-Adjustable-Potentiometer-Resistance-XH2-54-3P/dp/B082FCRQS2/


Scott

[buttersoft]

What are the values of the current pots in the cab? The G29 will be a bit flexible, and you may be able to wire up what's already there and simply calibrate it in windows. I'm surprised that blog post says 5k won't work when the original is 10k. I'm certain my current pedals are running 5k with a G25. But if that doesn't work...

The diagrams on the page linked to in that blog post you linked (phew) show the G29 having 10kR pots, not 10R. That's 10,000R, not 10R And the current will be tiny, so even a 0.25W model should be fine. EDIT: oops, beaten to it by PL1 (I would point out that a 10k pot is only 10k at the high end, it's 0R at the other. But you can use a 1k resistor in series just fine, for overcurrent protection. Measuring what's actually in the G29 might be an idea).

Also, you want a flat-sided shaft on it, not a knurled one, and a shaft that is long enough to go through those gears happily. Probably at least 20mm. (I think, at least. Are those pics the same as the inside of the pedals on your cab?)

The diameter of the potentiometer body probably doesn't matter so much as long as it's not some gigantic industrial model. The little hole to catch the tab (to stop the whole unit rotating in place) can always be filed out, or even better drilled in another spot

[PL1]

I'm surprised that blog post says 5k won't work when the original is 10k.

That statement shows that the guy doesn't understand the theory of operation for 3-wire potentiometers (voltage dividers) or how that theory is applied.
- The 0.5mA difference in current draw isn't going to blow anything up.   

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Analog_Encoders#How_a_potentiometer_provides_the_voltage_for_an_analog_encoder_to_measure

With most analog encoders, you can use pot values from 5k (arcade) to 100k (PC joystick) with no problem.
- Higher value pots tend to be less jittery.

I would point out that a 10k pot is only 10k at the high end, it's 0R at the other. But you can use a 1k resistor in series just fine, to stop overcurrent.

Sorry, but that would only be true if you wired the pot as a 2-wire variable resistor instead of a 3-wire potentiometer which acts as a voltage divider.
- I can't think of any 3-wire voltage divider application that would need a current limiting resistor like what you describe.
- Adding a resistor can turn a 2-wire variable resistor setup like an Atari 2600 paddle into a 3-wire voltage divider like the KADE team did here for miniConsole+.



With a 10k pot wired as a 3-wire voltage divider -- 5v on tab 1 (or 3), wiper on tab 2, and ground on tab 3 (or 1) -- it will draw 0.5 mA. from the 5v tab through the 10k resistive element to the ground tab.
- The wiper position won't noticeably change that current draw because the analog encoder input that the wiper wire connects to is going to be a high-impedance input.  Picture a 10" water main with a 1/4" port (high impedance input) leading to a water pressure (voltage) gauge.  The 1/4" port isn't going to change how much water flows through the 10" main, but it will allow the attached gauge to display the water pressure.

Also, you want a flat-sided shaft on it, not a knurled one, and a shaft that is long enough to go through those gears happily.

Yes, it is better to find a pot with the right size/shape shaft, but there are ways to work around that.   




Scott

[buttersoft]

I would point out that a 10k pot is only 10k at the high end, it's 0R at the other. But you can use a 1k resistor in series just fine, to stop overcurrent.

Sorry, but that would only be true if you wired the pot as a 2-wire variable resistor instead of a 3-wire potentiometer which acts as a voltage divider.

Fair point, there. My pedals are a straight VR with a fixed resistor in series. Or they were. I can't actually remember how they are wired now for the G25 but it must be 3-wires to the pot as a voltage divider.

[PL1]

- I can't think of any 3-wire voltage divider application that would need a current limiting resistor like what you describe.

On further consideration, there are some applications where you could wire a resistor in series with a potentiometer.

If you had 5v for potentiometer power, but needed to step it down to 3.3v for a gamepad hack or a RasPi GPIO input, you could use the resistor to drop 1.7v and the pot to drop 3.3v.
- Same process could also be used to step down a 12v power source by dropping 7v with a resistor, leaving 5v for the pot.

Another possible application would be a limited range LED dimmer circuit.
- The resistor would drop just enough voltage to forward bias the LEDs (dim) and the wiper would allow you to adjust the LED voltage from dim to bright.


Scott

[Zebidee]

- I can't think of any 3-wire voltage divider application that would need a current limiting resistor like what you describe.

On further consideration, there are some applications where you could wire a resistor in series with a potentiometer.

I actually do this a lot - it allows you to set a base value above zero, for the range you want to control. If this is to ground, it also has important safety considerations (as the current draw will increase as pots' resistance falls towards zero, which would then be a dead short, meaning the circuit' power draw may increase significantly).

For example, you want to have the resistance to ground vary between 500R and 1500R, so you use a 500R resistor in series with a 1k pot.

If you had 5v for potentiometer power, but needed to step it down to 3.3v for a gamepad hack or a RasPi GPIO input, you could use the resistor to drop 1.7v and the pot to drop 3.3v.

Using a voltage divider for this is going to waste a lot of power. Instead, I'd suggest using a Low-Drop Out (LDO) 3.3v voltage regulator like the MCP33002e, which is available in through-hole format (TO-92-3, long legs) so convenient for hobbyists. They are quite efficient for low-current applications (<300mA iirc). It would keep the voltage and current more consistent. There are many alternatives and you can get them for many different voltage outputs.

- Same process could also be used to step down a 12v power source by dropping 7v with a resistor, leaving 5v for the pot.

Again, using a resistor to lower your power voltage seems like a bad idea? Wouldn't you be better off using a voltage regulator chip like the good-old 7805? Or just using a 5v power brick?

Another possible application would be a limited range LED dimmer circuit.
- The resistor would drop just enough voltage to forward bias the LEDs (dim) and the wiper would allow you to adjust the LED voltage from dim to bright.

Bear with me   The way I understand it, and observe it to happen, is this:

The resistor drops the current to the LED, which lowers the voltage as well, but the final voltage drop happens over the LED (assuming you wire it resistor->LED), so long as there is enough minimum current to light the lamp. So, you'd wire the pot in series with the (minimum) resistor and LED, with only two terminals from the pot attached. No third wire to ground.

For example, an LED with 2v Vf will always drop 2v, regardless of what current limiting resistor you use, so long as there is enough current to light the lamp.

This also means that the voltage drop across the resistor+pot must always be equal to Vcc - Vf, so long as the resistor is at or above the minimum for that LED. So, although the resistor+pot does make voltage fall, it is more a current limiter than voltage divider. Current is the variable making the LED brighter or dimmer.


Power supply (Vcc) -> current limiting resistor -> pot -> LED -> GND


You can wire it LED->resistor and it works the same way, just flipping the voltage drops (current remains the same).