Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Lightguns Arcade1Up Try the site in https mode Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news

  

Author Topic: Cobbling together a computer...  (Read 4950 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

morton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 336
  • Last login:July 23, 2021, 09:36:59 am
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Cobbling together a computer...
« on: May 07, 2017, 11:39:35 am »
I am interested in running Groovy Mame, and like doing things cheap. Since I have a backlog of projects, it's become apparent I am in no rush to put a PC together. There is a good Radeon HD 4890 card local to me that looks like it will work for my video card as I have a 15khz monitor, and am giving consideration to just cobbling parts as they pop up.

Is there any components that I should not buy used? Or anything to look out for? I am not sure what spec to look for but am aware of processors like the G3258 which has good reviews etc... but hear used ones are risky. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Calamity

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7435
  • Last login:October 23, 2024, 01:59:38 pm
  • Quote me with care
Re: Cobbling together a computer...
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2017, 12:56:55 pm »
I don't recommend the HD 4890. That one made sense a few year ago, not anymore. Try searching for cards from the HD 6000 or 7000 series instead.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

morton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 336
  • Last login:July 23, 2021, 09:36:59 am
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Cobbling together a computer...
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2017, 12:10:09 pm »
Thanks. The list I saw didnt seem to go up that high, so was likely dated. I bet theres something in a sticky up top... may i ask the drawback to the 4890, and how it would compare to the suggested 6000 and 7000 models? Thanks.

buttersoft

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1782
  • Last login:October 01, 2024, 10:44:49 pm
  • Is running at 15kHz
Re: Cobbling together a computer...
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2017, 10:02:40 pm »
No EDID emulation (makes the process of using a low res monitor harder) and lack of flicker filter for interlaced resolutions.

I know there are other benefits too, but can never remember what they are.

haynor666

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1502
  • Last login:Today at 05:37:16 pm
  • retro maniac
Re: Cobbling together a computer...
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2017, 05:09:43 am »
No EDID emulation (makes the process of using a low res monitor harder) and lack of flicker filter for interlaced resolutions.

Or sharper picture on interlaced resolutions. This "lack" is a matter of preferences. Thought most people will use interlaced resolutions only for frontend.

Worth to mention that serie HD4xxx was the last one working under Windows XP.


Besides this HD5xxx and newer has faster modelines switching.

Calamity

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7435
  • Last login:October 23, 2024, 01:59:38 pm
  • Quote me with care
Re: Cobbling together a computer...
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2017, 08:02:22 am »
Basically I'm recommending HD 5000+ cards to avoid users falling again and again in the same old issues, e.g. this recent post.

The HD 4000 family is not truly Windows 7-ready (WDDM). This causes a lot of subtle oddities that simply make these cards a pain to use in Windows 7.

With legacy cards (pre-5000), GroovyMAME needs to be run in admin mode in order to write to the Windows registry. Forgetting about this is another mine of false bug reports.

Of course if you're planning to use Linux or Windows XP this is not an issue, but the majority of users are in Windows 7+ these days.

Besides high-end cards like the 4890 consume a lot of power and release too much heat to be suitable for an arcade project, in my opinion. Maybe a few years ago when the 4000 series was the top one we could use with GroovyMAME, then it could have made sense that someone bought that card to run some 3D demanding PC game or emulator along with GroovyMAME in a cabinet, but not anymore.


Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

krick

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2006
  • Last login:June 10, 2024, 02:32:45 pm
  • Gotta have blue hair.
Re: Cobbling together a computer...
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2017, 09:52:00 am »
@Calamity

Maybe there should be a recommended hardware/software sticky thread as this topic seems to come up over and over again.

The basic idea is to give new users a "shopping list" for building a PC for using GroovyMAME.

You could keep it updated with the recommended configurations for, say, Windows 7 and Linux for various video options (Arcade CRT, TV, LCD).

Recommended video cards (i.e. HD 5000+) and reasons why, recommended CPU levels, memory, etc...

I think to the newcomer it's confusing since CRT_EmuDriver (and 2.0) technically supports a LOT of different video cards, but not all of them are optimal choices for various reasons.
Hantarex Polo 15KHz
Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB (GCN)
GroovyMAME 0.197.017h_d3d9ex
CRT Emudriver & CRT Tools 2.0 beta 13 (Crimson 16.2.1 for GCN cards)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Intel Core i7-4790K @ 4.8GHz
ASUS Z87M-PLUS Motherboard

morton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 336
  • Last login:July 23, 2021, 09:36:59 am
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Cobbling together a computer...
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2017, 10:46:47 am »
@Calamity

Maybe there should be a recommended hardware/software sticky thread as this topic seems to come up over and over again.

The basic idea is to give new users a "shopping list" for building a PC for using GroovyMAME.

You could keep it updated with the recommended configurations for, say, Windows 7 and Linux for various video options (Arcade CRT, TV, LCD).

Recommended video cards (i.e. HD 5000+) and reasons why, recommended CPU levels, memory, etc...

I think to the newcomer it's confusing since CRT_EmuDriver (and 2.0) technically supports a LOT of different video cards, but not all of them are optimal choices for various reasons.

I would love this, but as things change so much, I assume it's a full time job keeping it up to date.

The processor I have read the most good things about for example is the G3258 with an overclock. Issue is finding them cheaply and most used ones have been overclocked and could have degraded performance. I can only assume now as well that newer processors are starting to come up used, and one may be easier/better to look for today as opposed to a year ago, or whatever...

... computers are always an enigma to me.

I guess if I said "I have a PI and want something with a lil more power to use 15khz monitor, play CPS and Cave games as well as maybe have a dynamic marquee eventually" it would pinpoint my options a bit better too?

donluca

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 266
  • Last login:Today at 04:14:43 pm
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Cobbling together a computer...
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2017, 02:52:01 pm »
For CAVE games get a XBOX360, really. Apart from the older ones, the other have lots of issues on MAME.

For everything else a raspberry pi is a great alternative, look here: http://www.neo-arcadia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54733
On a scale of fakeness, from more genuine to more fake, we'd have:

1.- Plastic plants (cf. Fake Plastic Trees)
2.- Inflatable dolls
3.- Arcade cabinets with LCD monitors

krick

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2006
  • Last login:June 10, 2024, 02:32:45 pm
  • Gotta have blue hair.
Re: Cobbling together a computer...
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2017, 04:18:53 pm »
The new Intel Core i3-7350K 4.2GHz dual core is a great choice for a CPU if you want to build a cheap PC for MAME.

4.2GHz dual core + hyperthreading for $150 retail

Also, it's unlocked.  So if you wanted to get a motherboard that supports overclocking, you might be able to get a little more out of it.  Though, I probably wouldn't spend a lot of money since I doubt you'd get to more than 4.5GHz at most.
Hantarex Polo 15KHz
Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB (GCN)
GroovyMAME 0.197.017h_d3d9ex
CRT Emudriver & CRT Tools 2.0 beta 13 (Crimson 16.2.1 for GCN cards)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Intel Core i7-4790K @ 4.8GHz
ASUS Z87M-PLUS Motherboard

haynor666

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1502
  • Last login:Today at 05:37:16 pm
  • retro maniac
Re: Cobbling together a computer...
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2017, 02:17:30 am »
Raspberry pi is out of the question since You can't use it with groovymame.

Would be so great if price was lower. Right now G3258 in almost half of price of i3-7350k. Also motherboards for new processor with overclocking ability are only Z270 boards which are also twice expensive as board with H81 or similiar.

Note. You can still buy new G3258 and boards based on H81 like GIGABYTE GA-H81M-S2PV. Full list is at https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/what-motherboards-have-non-z-overclocking-enabled-for-pentium-3258.2389948/

G3258 - 79 USD + ASUS H81M-C 90 USD = 169 USD (or even half of price if You are going to buy used parts)
i3-7350k - 130 USD + MSI Z270-A PRO 120 USD = 250 USD
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 02:29:42 am by haynor666 »

krick

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2006
  • Last login:June 10, 2024, 02:32:45 pm
  • Gotta have blue hair.
Re: Cobbling together a computer...
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2017, 08:10:59 am »
I'm a big fan of the G3258, and I own one myself, but not all H81 boards can still overclock it.  You need to research each board and the last BIOS version that supported overclocking.  And most of the decent, stable, well reviewed motherboards are no longer sold.  So finding a motherboard becomes a bit of a crap shoot.  If you google "ASUS H81M-C G3258 overclock" you'll find lots of posts from people who are unable to get it to work.

The reason I suggested the Core i3-7350K is that it's already clocked at a respectable 4.2GHz so you really don't need to overclock if you don't want to.

So, you can pick up a decent $60 (mini ITX, yay!) motherboard like this one...
ASRock H110M-ITX LGA 1151 Intel H110 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Mini ITX Intel Motherboard
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157678

So, yeah, it's more expensive and not quite as fast as an overclocked G3258, but boards are easy to find, you don't need to overclock, and it has hyperthreading as a bonus.

Also, the Core i3-7350K has 4M of cache (vs 3M on the G3258) and supports AVX2 processor extensions, so in theory, you might be able to squeeze out a little more performance by compiling your own build with optimizations for AVX2 enabled.
Hantarex Polo 15KHz
Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB (GCN)
GroovyMAME 0.197.017h_d3d9ex
CRT Emudriver & CRT Tools 2.0 beta 13 (Crimson 16.2.1 for GCN cards)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Intel Core i7-4790K @ 4.8GHz
ASUS Z87M-PLUS Motherboard

haynor666

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1502
  • Last login:Today at 05:37:16 pm
  • retro maniac
Re: Cobbling together a computer...
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2017, 09:11:48 am »
I know it's a bit complicated with H81 boards and overclocking ability. Some of the boards should not be upgraged to latest BIOS otherwise You might loose overclocking menu. Still You can cheap some used parts already tested with overclocking ability.


maiki

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 64
  • Last login:April 22, 2019, 05:51:29 pm
Re: Cobbling together a computer...
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2017, 10:50:19 am »
No EDID emulation (makes the process of using a low res monitor harder) and lack of flicker filter for interlaced resolutions.

Or sharper picture on interlaced resolutions. This "lack" is a matter of preferences.

Computer graphics interlaced video modes without any flicker filtering are more or less unwatchable. Hence all modern gaming consoles and video cards include hardware flicker filtering. For example the Xbox games set to interlace flicker 1 (not 0) are still sharp and do not suffer from shivering hysteria.

haynor666

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1502
  • Last login:Today at 05:37:16 pm
  • retro maniac
Re: Cobbling together a computer...
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2017, 11:46:09 am »
You know, most people don't see a problem with interlaced modes on console probably because most people are using composite video or s-video (in USA). But on SCART/RGB flickering is visible.

On the other hand, flickering is less visible in motion.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 12:16:07 pm by haynor666 »

morton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 336
  • Last login:July 23, 2021, 09:36:59 am
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: Cobbling together a computer...
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2017, 12:01:54 pm »
I think my main goal is to run a rig on a CGA monitor and not have to worry about system performance as MAME evolves in the next few years. Putting time and effort into a cheap PC seems like energy I could better spend to spec'ing out something nice. I can save $ in the meantime as I learn what I need. Being in Canada, I am limited how much is available to me cheap, but have found a few G3258's stateside I could get sent to my PO box there.

I also have a Dell Studio 1558 i3 laptop that is missing a Hard Drive, RAM (I think) and the power adaptor. I had considered de-casing the board and just using that for new cheaply, but ran into a few issues when it came to how to power it, and the ability to run a card that would give me CGA output as it only has onboard VGA.