Author Topic: Total Carnage/Smash TV CP Makeover - COMPLETED (Read 12276 times)

DeLuSioNal29 · « **on:** June 26, 2015, 02:40:00 pm »

Hi all,

Well, to make a long story short, I "re-acquired" my Total Carnage/Smash TV 2-in-1 machine. It was in decent shape, but the monitor was removed and I needed to re-do the control panel, so that the sticks are lined up properly. In the long run, I plan to make it a 3-in-1 with either Robotron (I need to purchase the PCB and modify harnesses obviously) or maybe a 4-in-1 with Karate champ (I already have the PCB for this one and again I will need to modify the harness to make it JAMMA).

For reference here's my old video of the arcade game in action with the 2-in-1 JAMMA switcher installed:

Here's a pic of the machine in it's previous state:

Update: Here's the completed pic with the new CP installed:

Now that I have the machine back, the CP was my main focus. I found a guy on the Mid Atlantic Pinball Arcade group who (by sheer luck) had grabbed a converted Total Carnage cab that was also a previous Gauntlet conversion like mine. The CP fit was an exact match. So naturally I expressed interest. We ended up working out a deal and he mailed the CP to me.

It was in rough shape to say the least: (before)

But with Magic Eraser it cleaned up fairly well: (after)

On the replacement CP, I noticed that the artwork was getting chewed up by the rotation of the player one firing joystick. Looking on the back of it, I discovered why: The hole that was being used was the "bigger" hole from the original joystick. Because of this, I decide to not use the plywood from the replacement CP. I used 3/4" MDF which should solve the problem once I cut the proper hole size.

Using the original CP's wood as a guide, I traced and roughly cut the MDF to size:

Then I flipped it over, clamped it down and went to town with a flush bit on my router:
(by the way, I found out the hard way that the bearing on the flush bit should be on the tip of the bit, not on the inside. I tried a bit with the bearing on the inside and the bearing keep "riding up" the bit and falling inside the t-molding groove. The 2nd bit with the bearing on the tip worked perfectly: lesson learned).

Just to give you an idea of how chewed up the t-molding groove was on the original panel:

Here it is after routing it. I did a test fit and the metal CP on top lines up great. Now I needed to route the edges for the t-molding:

Success!

Now time for the holes. I don't have many pics of the process, but I basically used a forstner 1-1/4" bit, lined it up with the hole on the CP and gave it a tap to mark where to drill on all of the holes. I then removed the metal CP and drilled away.

Here I'm lining up the hardware trying to match where they go based on the CP. The small pieces of wood are free Home Depot paint stirrers cut to size! They go along the inside of the cabinet when the CP rests on top to give it a snug fit. I'm gluing them in place and will finish up later once they dry.

More to come later!

Oh, and did I mention that I will probably be using Dominux 8-way joys in this update? I ordered blue ball tops with the intention to use it in another project but I will order red ball top replacements for this project.

DeLuSioNaL29

Vidiot · « **Reply #1 on:** June 26, 2015, 03:12:17 pm »

Very nice so far! Let us know how you like those Dominux 8 Sticks. I'd like to try them sometime.

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 28, 2015, 08:29:03 pm »

So far they are great on my existing panel. They work great on Robotron, Smash TV and Total Carnage. They also feel nice on other 8-way games. However for Fighting games it's hard to get the moves/combos out. Probably because I'm so used to my Happ and Sanwa joys: This one takes a bit getting used to for those games. Which is why I'm making them dedicated in this Total Carnage/Smash TV machine.

Del

wp34 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 28, 2015, 10:19:18 pm »

That's a cool looking CPO. Magic Eraser is the bomb.

If you get a JROK Multi Williams PCB you can play Bubbles and Splat in addition to Robotron.

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 29, 2015, 03:45:58 pm »

Good idea on the JRok board. I'm not a fan of Bubbles or Splat, but it would be a great solution for Robotron. Anyone know if you can direct boot into one game on the JRok board?

Del

wp34 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 29, 2015, 04:45:25 pm »

Quote from: DeLuSioNal29 on June 29, 2015, 03:45:58 pm

Good idea on the JRok board. I'm not a fan of Bubbles or Sat, but it would be a great solution for Robotron. Anyone know if you can direct boot into one game on the JRok board?

Del

I'll try it tonight and let you know. I'm really liking Robotron with the 25" monitor so far.

You can also play Joust if you are okay "flapping" with the "fire" joystick.

wp34 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 29, 2015, 06:03:06 pm »

You can boot directly into any of the games. It is a setting on the menu. What is nice is you can have multiple games enabled but boot directly to one specific game. Pretty slick.

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 29, 2015, 06:53:18 pm »

Nice! Thanks for confirming that!

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 02, 2015, 12:28:20 pm »

So I'm at a crossroad. Should I use plexi or not? My previous CP did not. But I may want to try routing a piece to fit. What do you all think? Worth the hassle?

Del

jdbailey1206 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 02, 2015, 12:30:15 pm »

If the original had it and you want to protect your artwork I say go for it.

wp34 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 02, 2015, 02:50:10 pm »

If it were me I'd go no plexi. I noticed recently I prefer the feel of my Total Carnage without plexi compared to my MAME cabinet with it. I'm not saying I'll never use plexi again but I really do really like the look and feel of my TC without it.

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 02, 2015, 04:26:52 pm »

I went and bought 2 large sheets of plexi today for $20. I'll give it a shot - never routed plexi before. Always willing to learn new stuff. I have two tries to get it right. The reason I want to have plexi is because I'm concerned that the artwork will get screwed up by the public when I bring it to RetroWorld Expo in October: http://retroworldexpo.com/

We'll see how it goes...

Del

wp34 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 02, 2015, 10:15:25 pm »

Quote from: DeLuSioNal29 on July 02, 2015, 04:26:52 pm

I went and bought 2 large sheets of plexi today for $20. I'll give it a shot - never routed plexi before. Always willing to learn new stuff. I have two tries to get it right. The reason I want to have plexi is because I'm concerned that the artwork will get screwed up by the public when I bring it to RetroWorld Expo in October: http://retroworldexpo.com/

We'll see how it goes...

Del

Yeah I could see that. If you are taking that cabinet out into public some plexi protection would be good to have.

opt2not · « **Reply #13 on:** July 03, 2015, 02:19:09 pm »

Solid work on the CP

Re: Plexi
I tend to avoid plexi on CP's, and prefer the tough laminated vinyl, or that polylaminated stuff. That stuff is pretty damage-proof, and unless someone takes a key or a blade to the surface, you shouldn't have to worry about it getting damaged.

Even though people think Plexi can protect the CP a bit more, I tend to differ. Really the only thing it protects is the CPO, only if you didn't opt for the more expensive hard-laminated surface, like that poly-laminate stuff -- or in my recent CPO adventures, I used vinyl that had floor lamination applied to it (see

, and

). It's not protecting the wood from damage that's for sure, mind you if people are smashing your panel with enough force to damage the wood, then they probably shouldn't be allowed on your cab IMO.

Now, if you're worried about drink spillage, then plexi is actually more of a pain in the ass to clean up than just having your tough laminated surface CPO. Liquids will still seep under the plexi through button and joystick holes, and not only get down into your panel, but also in-between the plexi and the CPO. And if you cheap'd out on the CPO (something non-sealed/laminated) then it'll get damaged anyway.
Besides it's more work, and looks tacky, and I don't believe the protection trade-off is viable it when the hard laminated CPO's are tough enough to withstand nicks and scratches, and looks more dedicated than plexi-on-top.

As long as you apply the hard-laminated CPO properly, making sure the adhesive is bounded to the wood enough to seal it between (also helps if you have painted/sealed the wood, especially in the holes) then you shouldn't have to worry about liquid damage to the wood. Clean-up on a laminated CPO is super easy too.

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 06, 2015, 04:43:29 pm »

So I opted for no plexi. It just feels better to me. The CP is not perfect in a couple spots so no biggie anyway. It's a game about war so bring on the battle scars. Lol.

I did work on it a bit over the long weekend though. My first task was to fix the chewed up artwork on the 1 player Fire joystick.

I used a Dremel with sandpaper to trim the artwork to the new sub panel I cut earlier. I was able to simply use the newly cut hole as a guide.

Before:

After:

Del

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 07, 2015, 08:31:10 pm »

I started test fitting the hardware into the new panel. Originally, when I had test fit the new Dominux joysticks on my old panel - They had a long throw; meaning they would hit the sides of the larger 1-1/2" hole when playing. On this new panel I accounted for it by cutting a smaller 1-1/4" hole so that the actual hole would act as an external "circular restrictor" making the throw shorter. I could then adjust the leaf switches underneath if needed. (This was never an issue with the original Happ Super joysticks I had in there already; they never touched the sides).

I ran into a slight hiccup. Since the metal portion of the CP was slightly smaller at 1-1/8", the Dominux joystick shafts would hit the metal part of the CP instead of the wood, scratching the shafts.

I corrected the issue by using a grinding bit on my Dremel. I then followed it up with a sanding bit to smooth it out. It helped tremendously and solved the problem.

I'm not completely sold on using the Dominux joysticks in this build yet, but luckily this CP layout allows me to easily compare the joysticks side by side. (Keep in mind that the blue balltops will be replaced with red ball tops.)

Also, forgot to mention that the Total Carnage PCB was acting wonky, and I narrowed it down to faulty crimps in the power cable that runs from the main PCB to the sound board. I swapped it with the one I ordered way back when from Bob Roberts. I contacted him and he was happy to make a clone for the other game PCB. I popped it in today and it works great (although it still plays blind without a monitor. I'm still working on buying one).

Here's the old wiring harness:

And the new one from Bob Roberts. Much better!

So far so good!

DeL

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 10, 2015, 12:26:21 pm »

Now onto the CP wiring: Although the wiring worked "as is" the quick connects didn't fit as snugly as I had liked. Also the wiring is ugly as hell and looked like a rats nest underneath.

I eventually want to buy new molex connectors and pins and put in fresh wiring. (I plan to create a new topic on crimping supply links as I do the research for that). But for now, to save some cash, I decided to use the existing wire with new quick disconnects.
Not too shabby... (100% better than what it was)

D

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 29, 2015, 10:19:34 pm »

Now we're back on track! I found a BURN FREE 19" monitor (shout out to Pengo13 on KLOV who provided it after an extensive search).

Now I can finally compare the two different controls and decide which to use. :-)

More to come.

DeLuSioNaL29

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 29, 2015, 11:24:56 pm »

It's ALIVE!

:-)

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 24, 2015, 05:17:57 pm »

Quick update:

I've been able to compare both sticks side by side for a few weeks: Happ Supers (red ones on the left) and the Dominux sticks (blue ones on the right). I've decided to go with the Dominux sticks, soooooooo... I ordered 2 more today from Randy T at www.Groovygamegear.com. This time with red ball tops and 2 additional red ball tops to replace the blue ones.

I'll post more once I get them.

D

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 04, 2015, 01:11:46 pm »

New sticks arrived and installed! This thing is SWEET! I'm loving the new look, new positioning of the sticks and the feel of the Dominux leafs!

Everything is working perfectly.

Things to do:
1) Replace the old wiring harnesses with newer quality JAMMA ones (with -5 wires)
2) Upgrade to a 3 in 1 JAMMA switcher (the jury is still out on which one - any suggestions?)
3) Buy a JROK board (will boot directly to Robotron)

DeLuSioNaL29

Vidiot · « **Reply #21 on:** September 04, 2015, 01:16:12 pm »

Very nice work here.

I'd really love to try those Dominux8 Sticks sometime.

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 04, 2015, 01:26:58 pm »

Well if you're up in the area around October 3rd you are welcome to attend. People on the board are welcome to crash I my place. I have a 3 bedroom home with 2 guest rooms plus a finished basement with a pull-out couch.

My buddies are the organizers of the event so we will probably need help hauling arcade games back and forth.

D

Vidiot · « **Reply #23 on:** September 04, 2015, 01:55:58 pm »

Quote from: DeLuSioNal29 on September 04, 2015, 01:26:58 pm

Well if you're up in the area around October 3rd you are welcome to attend. People on the board are welcome to crash I my place. I have a 3 bedroom home with 2 guest rooms plus a finished basement with a pull-out couch.

My buddies are the organizers of the event so we will probably need help hauling arcade games back and forth.

D

I don't think I can get away but that is a very generous offer. Thank you. Sounds like a good time though.

harveybirdman · « **Reply #24 on:** September 04, 2015, 03:57:27 pm »

D I'm really interested in any video adjustments if any that are necessary between games.

I haven't seen a 3 way JAMMA switcher, but I know Chopper and Maximus rolled their own....

The 6 in 1 board version I have would be no good for you unless you wanted to mod it for the -5v, and perhaps the service menus if any of your boards have need for it.

How do dual joystick games pinout the right joys? Are they like button one, two, and three plus one of the normally unused ones? and do Robotron, Smash, and Total C all send the same signals? Definitely would want to make sure whatever switcher you use will support their pinouts.

gbeef · « **Reply #25 on:** September 04, 2015, 04:21:49 pm »

Looks awesome.
Just wondering the Older sticks you had are they supers?
I've been looking around everywhere i can find supers in red. I know you posted in my thread a while back but wanted to confrim

JDFan · « **Reply #26 on:** September 04, 2015, 04:22:28 pm »

Quote from: DeLuSioNal29 on September 04, 2015, 01:11:46 pm

Things to do:
1) Replace the old wiring harnesses with newer quality JAMMA ones (with -5 wires)
2) Upgrade to a 3 in 1 JAMMA switcher (the jury is still out on which one - any suggestions?)
3) Buy a JROK board (will boot directly to Robotron)

DeLuSioNaL29

Forgot -- 4.) paint the inside lip of the joystick holes or install dustwashers --

just looks weird with the MDF grain showing !

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #27 on:** September 07, 2015, 06:06:18 pm »

Quote from: gbeef on September 04, 2015, 04:21:49 pm

Looks awesome.
Just wondering the Older sticks you had are they supers?
I've been looking around everywhere i can find supers in red. I know you posted in my thread a while back but wanted to confrim

They are actually Spanish "Happ Super knock-offs" (they have Zippy switches). I searched the web for a link and don't see them for sale in the U.S. I bought mine on e-bay years ago. However, I did see another topic with the exact same sticks: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=133421.0

I attached a couple of pics of the ones that I have. Seems to be a company called CA Calle.

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #28 on:** September 07, 2015, 06:07:44 pm »

Quote from: JDFan on September 04, 2015, 04:22:28 pm

Forgot -- 4.) paint the inside lip of the joystick holes or install dustwashers -- just looks weird with the MDF grain showing !

Good call! I will paint them once I re-wire the harness and have everything apart.

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #29 on:** September 07, 2015, 06:16:22 pm »

Quote from: harveybirdman on September 04, 2015, 03:57:27 pm

D I'm really interested in any video adjustments if any that are necessary between games.

I haven't seen a 3 way JAMMA switcher, but I know Chopper and Maximus rolled their own....

The 6 in 1 board version I have would be no good for you unless you wanted to mod it for the -5v, and perhaps the service menus if any of your boards have need for it.

How do dual joystick games pinout the right joys? Are they like button one, two, and three plus one of the normally unused ones? and do Robotron, Smash, and Total C all send the same signals? Definitely would want to make sure whatever switcher you use will support their pinouts.

I have a 2 in 1 at the moment, and yes, I modded it by adding the -5 to power my Smash TV sound board. I'm pretty sure I'd have to do the same for any other x in 1 JAMMA connector.

As for the two games, Smash TV and Total Carnage: The controls are IDENTICAL, so no further modding is needed. Same goes for the video. I can literally switch the JAMMA connector and it works. I'm assuming Robotron will too because it's also a Williams game but that has yet to be seen. However, I believe the controls are slightly mappable on the JROK board itself according to JROK's post: http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showpost.php?p=3131970&postcount=767

Worst case: I'll build a custom JAMMA connector that alters the pinout from the JROK board to the JAMMA connector. :-)

[Edit: I confirmed that the JROK works just fine with the default Pinout for JAMMA. You can set Robotron (in the JROK setup menu) to either use the player 2 joystick as fire or the buttons for player 1 as fire - Which works perfectly with the Total Carnage/SmashTV joystick mappings). I prefer to use the player 2 move joystick as fire since they are spaced out a bit when playing, but it works either way. :-) ]

D

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #30 on:** October 15, 2015, 02:46:46 pm »

Quick update. I finally completed the project in time for the 2015 RetroWorld Expo

- Modded the joysticks to have custom restrictors that prevent the shaft from rubbing up on the side of the metal CP.
- Painted the inside of the holes black, as suggested by DJFan.
- Tidied up existing wiring and connectors. (This will be upgraded in the future with a quality JAMMA harness with -5v)
- Installed a 2 in 1 adapter (This will be upgraded in the future as I add games)

Although I had smoothed out the edges of the CP, I still found the metal edges rubbing against the metal shaft. It played just fine, but I wanted to add something to prevent the metal CP cutting into the joystick shaft with heavy use. So I thought long and hard and while browsing Jimbo's project Jimbovision, it came to me: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,141562.msg1510166.html#msg1510166
I would have a piece of Lexan in between that I could cut smaller so that the shaft would rub against the Lexan instead of the metal CP.

Through trial and error with different hole sizes, I came up with 7/8" for the hole size. It was a perfect size that allowed the shaft of the joystick to hit it and not touch the metal portion.

Here's the final Lexan piece that I created to sandwich in between the joystick and the control panel:

Here it is over the Dominux joystick:

Here it is installed:

When pressed to the side the shaft is close to the edge of the metal panel but does not hit it:

The result: A perfect feel! No more metal. The joysticks felt perfect! The machine was now ready for the show. My buddy and I loaded it up into his truck. We brought it to his warehouse where all of the machines were being staged for transport to the show on Saturday. (By the way, the red casters shown in the pic below are awesome. Got them at the Home Depot for $9.99 each and they match the theme of the cabinet. Plus they are STRONG since this cabinet is HEAVY and they lock in place after moving)

At the show, many people were interested in trying the Dominux joysticks and my game got a TON of play. I set up a Dominux sign (with Randy T's blessing) letting people know how cool these Wico alternatives really are! Out of the two games Smash TV got the most play (of course). A couple of people played the game and beat it since it was set to freeplay for the expo.

On a side note: I brought my 7 year old and he LOVED it. It was really cool seeing him play classic consoles like NES Duckhunt with the zapper, Ms. Pacman on the Atari 5200, Astrosmash on the Intellivision , the MVS system and even Star Trek on the Vectrex system.

Here were are at my buddy Adam's booth (Squarepainter):

There were some people who dressed up and of course my son wanted a pic:

Here's group pic with everyone associated with RetroWareTV

Once I get the footage posted of the show to my Youtube channel I will update it here.

My only regret with this machine is that I can't bring it to Zapcon 2016 due to the distance (Yotsuya, sorry man, I'm not driving to AZ from CT - LOL).

DeLuSioNaL29

wp34 · « **Reply #31 on:** October 15, 2015, 03:48:16 pm »

Thanks for posting that trick with the lexan. I'm looking to swap out the joysticks on my TC and may run into the same issue.

Looks like you and your son had a great time. That was a great idea putting the Dominux sign on the top of your cabinet. That would have drew me in for a test drive for sure.

Vidiot · « **Reply #32 on:** October 15, 2015, 03:57:56 pm »

Love those pics. Looks like a lot of fun. The cab looks fantastic. I'm sure it was a hit. Great job.

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #33 on:** October 15, 2015, 04:17:27 pm »

Thanks all.

I also forgot to mention that I saw a couple people from the forums there too:
- nexusmtz from BYOAC
- "ThatTimGuy" from Youtube aka timaa84 from NEACF (he's also mrdude on the John's Arcade forums)

I'm sure I ran into more people but they didn't identify themselves. LOL.

DeLuSioNaL29

n3wt0n · « **Reply #34 on:** October 15, 2015, 04:32:25 pm »

Great looking cab and the part with the plexi restrictors was a great idea. Having a two joystick game only cab like this would be sweet.

gbeef · « **Reply #35 on:** October 15, 2015, 04:57:13 pm »

Nice revamp!.
also thanks for the on the vinyl dye for my joysticks it helped big time

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #36 on:** October 15, 2015, 05:15:29 pm »

Quote from: gbeef on October 15, 2015, 04:57:13 pm

Nice revamp!.
also thanks for the [tip] on the vinyl dye for my joysticks it helped big time

Thanks! As for your CP: Did the original paint and clear coat that you had on the black Supers flake off? How do the new ones look with Vinyl dye? I have 4 spare red ones if you need one for player 1. Can't help with yellow though, sorry.

D

mnewt · « **Reply #37 on:** October 16, 2015, 05:23:43 am »

Thanks for the write up - an interesting read. I was thinking of the Dominux joysticks myself for Robotron but was worried about the throw distance after reading this (I appreciate you can alter the leaf switches but I quite often like to ride the gate). Your mod sounds like a great solution - thanks for sharing.

I wonder if Randy would consider producing a circular restrictor option (like Andy does for the U360s) for those of us who prefer a slightly shorter throw

RandyT · « **Reply #38 on:** October 16, 2015, 12:53:29 pm »

Quote from: mnewt on October 16, 2015, 05:23:43 am

I wonder if Randy would consider producing a circular restrictor option (like Andy does for the U360s) for those of us who prefer a slightly shorter throw

Sure! DeLuSioNal29's modification is very similar to the way we already restrict for 4 way and octagonal. The only difference is that we laser cut the profile of the part, and set it inside the top lip of the base, so it's nearly flush.

The only issue is that the amount of throw someone may like is a bit subjective. But if DeLuSioNal29 doesn't mind sharing what he found to be optimal for this particular unit, I could use that as a starting point.

BTW, DeLuSioNal29, I did get your email. I'll shoot you a reply shortly, but I'd like to publicly thank you for going through the extra effort of showing off the Dominux8 sticks. I'm glad to hear that everyone enjoyed using them!

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #39 on:** October 16, 2015, 01:21:45 pm »

Hey Randy,

I was just composing an e-mail to you regarding this plate. I was thinking of something similar to this: http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=310&zenid=io4okrq7lrmg48n5ua8sjjihr0

I will see if I can double check the specs this weekend. I used Bob Robert's metal joystick template that I had on hand to cut the holes accurately (cutting the hole in the center smaller though of course).

I wouldn't mind trying out prototypes if you decide to try it (as I have in the past). Let me know what I can do to help.

Edit: Just re-read your post Randy and saw that you already have restrictors. That sounds good. I will let you know the radius and get back to you.

DeLuSioNaL29


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