MALA vs Hyperspin

[BadMouth]

Have to disagree, mine certainly doesn't look like a media centre.  I like frontends to be simple and functional - the games speak for themselves.

Pic or better yet video?

[wp34]

wp34, For your cab, instead of the usual circuit traces or lines, I think you should have Tron Legacy concept art in the background:
http://godsofart.com/tron-legacy-concept-art
I like the ones of Flynn's Arcade.

Throw some semi-transparent boxes on top of that outlined in glowing borders and you've got a nice looking theme without too much work.
Just my opinion. 

Thanks for the tip.  I do like the Flynn's arcade image.   

[Dazz]

Dazz, you didn't address either of my posts with HS questions.  Can you please answer them?

Why does HS only recognize 2 joystick devices?

Sorry, not trying to jump on the bandwagon here, but this was an annoyance when setting up the Beast.

Why would you need more than 2 joystick devices in HyperSpin?  HyperSpin is used to ONLY select the games.  Do you really need more than 2 devices to select games?  Once the game is selected it's up to your Emulator to support the necessary controls.

I would want this feature as well, to make sure that the FE is as guest proof as possible.  On a machine like The Beast or any 4P panel I would want every joystick to do the same thing in the FE so whoever walks up to my panel, no matter which joy they walk up to can select a game and get going.  Ideally I would think you would want your FE to meet the needs of the user rather than admonishing the user for wanting something outside the limitations of your FE.

While your thinking of "guest proof" sounds good in concept; it's actually not very "guest proof" in functionality.  I've done a LOT of testing when it come to deciding if multiple people should be able to navigate/control the FE.  It was decided that 2 was workable, but more than 2 caused more headaches and problems than it was worth.  I'll throw adding player 3/4 FE navigation into our suggestion box.

Just a couple things to think about in allowing more than 1 person access to FE navigation...

Lets say a guest walks up to your control panel.  They select to use the P3 controls.  The FE is setup so they can select the game, so they select a game.  However, once the game has been launched they can't use that control.  They have to move to the player 1 controls anyway.  I don't consider this as "guest proof" at all... if anything more confusing for the guest when they find out their control doesn't work.

Another issue with allowing multiple people have control over the FE... It never fails that when you have multiple people on the controls at the same time; players always seem to just press buttons or move a joystick.

From experience; I will never again allow more than 1 person access to FE navigation controls on my 4 player cabinet.

[Nephasth]

Dazz, you didn't address either of my posts with HS questions.  Can you please answer them?

Why does HS only recognize 2 joystick devices?

Sorry, not trying to jump on the bandwagon here, but this was an annoyance when setting up the Beast.

Why would you need more than 2 joystick devices in HyperSpin?  HyperSpin is used to ONLY select the games.  Do you really need more than 2 devices to select games?  Once the game is selected it's up to your Emulator to support the necessary controls.

I would want this feature as well, to make sure that the FE is as guest proof as possible.  On a machine like The Beast or any 4P panel I would want every joystick to do the same thing in the FE so whoever walks up to my panel, no matter which joy they walk up to can select a game and get going.  Ideally I would think you would want your FE to meet the needs of the user rather than admonishing the user for wanting something outside the limitations of your FE.

While your thinking of "guest proof" sounds good in concept; it's actually not very "guest proof" in functionality.  I've done a LOT of testing when it come to deciding if multiple people should be able to navigate/control the FE.  It was decided that 2 was workable, but more than 2 caused more headaches and problems than it was worth.  I'll throw adding player 3/4 FE navigation into our suggestion box.

Just a couple things to think about in allowing more than 1 person access to FE navigation...

Lets say a guest walks up to your control panel.  They select to use the P3 controls.  The FE is setup so they can select the game, so they select a game.  However, once the game has been launched they can't use that control.  They have to move to the player 1 controls anyway.  I don't consider this as "guest proof" at all... if anything more confusing for the guest when they find out their control doesn't work.

Another issue with allowing multiple people have control over the FE... It never fails that when you have multiple people on the controls at the same time; players always seem to just press buttons or move a joystick.

From experience; I will never again allow more than 1 person access to FE navigation controls on my 4 player cabinet.

I've heard it before, so I know, I know, I'm the minority. I use U360s for my P1 and P2 joysticks. P1's and P2's buttons are controlled with a Lono² (on 2 headers, so they're recognized as seperate game controllers). So my P1 and P2 controls are spread across 4 joystick devices. But I have to use P1 joy and P2 joy in HS just to allow P1's controls to run HS, leaving P2 (on my other monitor) dead in the water. I'd like to have P2 be able to navigate HS, don't really care about P3 and P4 (partly due to reasons you stated), but it would be nice to navigate HS from both screens on my machine... And in case you're wondering why I just don't use the U360s to run the buttons for P1 and P2, they can't handle the amount of buttons/inputs I have for each of those players (9 each). Could I have wired it differently? Yes. But I wired it as is for a reason. Like I said before, I love HS, but this is an annoyance.

[Le Chuck]

Dazz, you didn't address either of my posts with HS questions.  Can you please answer them?

Why does HS only recognize 2 joystick devices?

Sorry, not trying to jump on the bandwagon here, but this was an annoyance when setting up the Beast.

Why would you need more than 2 joystick devices in HyperSpin?  HyperSpin is used to ONLY select the games.  Do you really need more than 2 devices to select games?  Once the game is selected it's up to your Emulator to support the necessary controls.

I would want this feature as well, to make sure that the FE is as guest proof as possible.  On a machine like The Beast or any 4P panel I would want every joystick to do the same thing in the FE so whoever walks up to my panel, no matter which joy they walk up to can select a game and get going.  Ideally I would think you would want your FE to meet the needs of the user rather than admonishing the user for wanting something outside the limitations of your FE.

While your thinking of "guest proof" sounds good in concept; it's actually not very "guest proof" in functionality.  I've done a LOT of testing when it come to deciding if multiple people should be able to navigate/control the FE.  It was decided that 2 was workable, but more than 2 caused more headaches and problems than it was worth.  I'll throw adding player 3/4 FE navigation into our suggestion box.

Just a couple things to think about in allowing more than 1 person access to FE navigation...

Lets say a guest walks up to your control panel.  They select to use the P3 controls.  The FE is setup so they can select the game, so they select a game.  However, once the game has been launched they can't use that control.  They have to move to the player 1 controls anyway.  I don't consider this as "guest proof" at all... if anything more confusing for the guest when they find out their control doesn't work.

Another issue with allowing multiple people have control over the FE... It never fails that when you have multiple people on the controls at the same time; players always seem to just press buttons or move a joystick.

From experience; I will never again allow more than 1 person access to FE navigation controls on my 4 player cabinet.

Dazz, you still didn't address either of my posts.  I will repost so you can't miss them.  

Can HS tell my 4way/8way servo controlled joysticks which setting to move to based on the MAME INI?

Can HS be rotated on the fly and have MAME orient its rotation based on HS's current setting?  Can that rotation be automated from w/in HS?

Can one make HS look and act like Urban Interactives Star Wars FE?  If it can be done then I have some serious uses for HS. 

His loader, which you can get here, is in the May 5 2009 post.  Here's an early vid of his launcher, the current version in the download link is better:



It would be cool if you would answer my questions while you're answering everybody elses.  Kaithanks.

[TOK]

MALA with a large font and dimmed full-screen screenshots in the background. I want to play the games, not the front end.

[Los Abrazos Rotos]

Have to disagree, mine certainly doesn't look like a media centre.  I like frontends to be simple and functional - the games speak for themselves.

Pic or better yet video?

http://gameex.com/

[RetroBorg]

MALA with a large font and dimmed full-screen screenshots in the background. I want to play the games, not the front end.

Have you tried command line MAME?

[mgb]

I was super impressed with Hyperspin when I first saw it but I use Mala.
Hyperspin definitely is super cool but for me, I don't need that much flash to my frontend. I like the simplicity of Mala and also my pc doesn't have the horse power for Hyperspin.

[vidmouse]

Mala for my arcade cab, but
Hyperpin (related?) for my pinball cab

Best of both worlds, IMO

[wp34]

Dazz, you didn't address either of my posts with HS questions.  Can you please answer them?

Totally off-topic here but I swear Le Chuck's username was changed to Le Chuckles yesterday.  Did I imagine that?   

[PL1]

Totally off-topic here but I swear Le Chuck's username was changed to Le Chuckles yesterday.  Did I imagine that?   

It's just a phase he was going through.

I thought he did it so "LeChuck" on KLOV would stop getting messages meant for him. (I wondered why it looked like he used a different avatar--Joust.)


Scott

[Nephasth]

Dazz, you didn't address either of my posts with HS questions.  Can you please answer them?

Totally off-topic here but I swear Le Chuck's username was changed to Le Chuckles yesterday.  Did I imagine that?   

Nope, he did have it as Le Chuckles. Apparently you can change your displayed name in your profile (but your username remains the same)...

[BadMouth]

 

[Le Chuck]

Yeah, it's been going through some changes lately.  Some of the rat fink admins have been having some fun with me on the side.  Last 24 hours I have been:

Le Chad
HaRuMaN is a Dick
I <3 HaRuMaN
Saint is a rat
Le Chuckles

Who knows who I'll be tomorrow.  Maybe if I change my username again Dazz will answer my questions.   

[Dazz]

Dazz, you still didn't address either of my posts.  I will repost so you can't miss them.  

Can HS tell my 4way/8way servo controlled joysticks which setting to move to based on the MAME INI?

Can HS be rotated on the fly and have MAME orient its rotation based on HS's current setting?  Can that rotation be automated from w/in HS?

Can one make HS look and act like Urban Interactives Star Wars FE?  If it can be done then I have some serious uses for HS. 

His loader, which you can get here, is in the May 5 2009 post.  Here's an early vid of his launcher, the current version in the download link is better:



It would be cool if you would answer my questions while you're answering everybody elses.  Kaithanks.

Dude... I haven't answered your questions because your questions about 4/8way and screen rotation have already been answered by someone that's more familiar with how 4/8 way switching works than I am.  My answer would be; if switching is done via command line then it can easily be added to the Launch scripts that HyperSpin uses. 

As far as the Urban Interactives Star Wars FE.  It's great for a hand full of games... but anything over that it's kind of useless.  No HyperSpin isn't going to duplicate the spinning block.

[Le Chuck]

Thanks Dazz, I just wanted to get the information from the horse's mouth.  It would be a shame to call your FE useless based on bad information. 

[TOK]

MALA with a large font and dimmed full-screen screenshots in the background. I want to play the games, not the front end.

Have you tried command line MAME?

Thats what the front end is launching, so who isn't?

[mgb]

MALA with a large font and dimmed full-screen screenshots in the background. I want to play the games, not the front end.

Agreed!!!

[TheShaner]

So Im working on my FrontEnd as we speak.  I am still going back and forth between these two.  I am building the front end in MALA right now, but am probably going to build a Hyperspin theme as well.  DAZZ, do you have any examples of really well done themes?  I would like to see an example of someone else who has done it right.  It might help me get the noggin rolling.

Also, I think it is funny that people say things like "You dont play the front end".  The way I see it, you spend all of this time creating a bad ass cabinet, configuring it, etc, why would you skip out on the front end design to add that last layer of polish??  Big letters on a plain background seem like a cop out.  Just my opinion.

[Cynicaster]

Also, I think it is funny that people say things like "You dont play the front end".  The way I see it, you spend all of this time creating a bad ass cabinet, configuring it, etc, why would you skip out on the front end design to add that last layer of polish??  Big letters on a plain background seem like a cop out.  Just my opinion.

Well, here’s a counter-opinion: spending hours upon hours designing and tweaking layouts, and assembling screenshots, animations, sounds, graphics, etc. is a whole lot of time spent with no commensurate benefit, other than maybe to scratch some kind of bizarre OCD-induced itch to have everything just so.  The games are just as easy to locate and run from a utilitarian list as they are from a flashy/elaborate one—maybe easier.  I’m not saying that your front end should be an ugly, poorly organized mess—I’m simply saying that the core elements are relatively easy to set up, and going beyond that quickly leads into the worst “diminishing returns” scenario imaginable.   

I mean, I see some of these videos on Youtube where guys have these fancy pictures and media for all kinds of console emulators, and I almost feel sorry for them for the amount of time they must have wasted getting it all running.  I’d be willing to bet that in three lifetimes they wouldn’t spend as much time actually playing those games as they spent setting up the front end.  So what’s the point?   

[nickbuol]

So I am looking at these two FEs (Mala and Hyperspin).  My first cabinet had good ol' ArcadeOS on it.  Since then, I've messed with Mala years ago, and for a while had MameWah on my current cab I built in 2005, but am currently set up with AtomicFE.  It works, but I am ready for an update.

My current computer in the cabinet has a bad hard drive controller, and another computer (almost same specs with a AMD Athlon XP 2900+ CPU at the core) that used to be my primary PC.  I plan to swap that in-place.  I am also very out of date on the system (by several years).  I am looking at getting an external harddrive to get me up to date, if you know what I mean.

Anyway, the harddrive comes with Hyperspin preinstalled and "configured".  (I am sure that this idea bother some, but don't judge me yet as I haven't done anything yet, and don't know if I ever will.  My current setup suits me fine.  Sort of like getting a ticket for running a stop sign when you haven't done it yet and don't know if you ever will, but ask about the intersection that the sign is at.  Plus I've been in this hobby for well over a decade and while there is that line in the sand, and I know it doesn't make it right by any means, but I would wager that at least 90% of those with MAME cabinets have gotten at least one ROM without owning the boards.  There are also hundreds, if not thousands of discussions here around obtaining, storing, sharing, sorting, and filtering full sets of ROMs.).  My concern is what kind of hardware will I need computing wise to simply run the front end?  I guess that I could replace it, but a huge benefit of the hard drive option is that it only takes a few tweaks and it works, vs. having to get everything setup again from scratch.

What are the minimum **realistic** specs required for Hyperspin?

[GregD]

You need a dual core processor (2.6+) and a decent graphics card.  Onboard graphics are fine if it is a new pc.

[nickbuol]

You need a dual core processor (2.6+) and a decent graphics card.  Onboard graphics are fine if it is a new pc.

Wow.  That is the same as my primary PC is now (I know, it is "outdated") but I use it for photo and video editing, plus first person shooters with great frame rates  (its all about the components).  Seems silly to need that much power just for a front end.  Maybe when it is time to upgrade the main PC in our house, but I don't feel like dropping that amount of money just for the front end when others will work as-is.

Thanks for the info Greg!

[rooter]

I love Hyperspin.  All the other frontends I have tried just feel like you are just browsing a list games on a computer.  Hyper spin makes everything feel consistent and somehow like the machine was made to play games.  The menus move more like the menus in arcade games, I guess.

However, it is always very laggy for me.  Even on a beastly machine with an SSD hard drive.

[nickbuol]

You need a dual core processor (2.6+) and a decent graphics card.  Onboard graphics are fine if it is a new pc.

After doing more reading, I read right on the Hyperspin web site that it is CPU intensive, not GPU intensive, and like MAME, doesn't need a beefy video card.


I think that I will crack open the case on my proposed "different" (not new) machine and see what it has for RAM, video, and motherboard.  Then I will see if the motherboard supports a faster processor.  With any luck, I can get the best of both worlds...  A faster machine and a minimal upgrade cost.  Of course, I know that there are other factors in PC performance besides just upgrading the CPU, but until I look at what I have for a MB, I'll never know.

EDIT: Gotta love TigerDirect.  I looked up the computers I bought back when I built my current cabinet, and it looks like an Athlon XP 3200+ is the best I could do, but of course I couldn't buy one if I wanted.  I do have a MSI K9N SLI-F motherboard sitting around.  Maybe time to build a new beast.  But this is all so much off topic.  Sorry.  I like the simplicity of Mala, but Hyperspin looks great.  I wonder how it looks on the 29" TV that is in my cabinet.

[Dazz]

So Im working on my FrontEnd as we speak.  I am still going back and forth between these two.  I am building the front end in MALA right now, but am probably going to build a Hyperspin theme as well.  DAZZ, do you have any examples of really well done themes?  I would like to see an example of someone else who has done it right.  It might help me get the noggin rolling.

Also, I think it is funny that people say things like "You dont play the front end".  The way I see it, you spend all of this time creating a bad ass cabinet, configuring it, etc, why would you skip out on the front end design to add that last layer of polish??  Big letters on a plain background seem like a cop out.  Just my opinion.

It depends on what you consider "really well done" or "done right"...  It's all a personal taste on how they want their setup.  Give me an example of what you consider "really well done".

The current version does not take advantage of GPU.  Its flash and AS3 based so it likes CPU and RAM.  A dual core with at least 2gb of ram is recommended.  However, you should be able to use lesser of a machine if you set the optimizer at LOW, turn off the advanced transitions and image smoothing as well as run at the native resolution.  

2.0 will take advantage of GPU tech as well as having more streamlined code.  Tasks that required 2,000+ lines of code have been cut down to ~200.

Anyway, the harddrive comes with Hyperspin preinstalled and "configured". 

BTW - We really don't take kindly to those that purchase such drives/collections...

[TheShaner]

Dazz, Im just looking for slick examples.  No need to clarify slick, just shoot some winners my way.

Any timeframe on 2.0?

[BadMouth]

I think he's looking for layouts with a unique, polished looking theme that doesn't change with each game.
(preferrably matching the cabinet it's installed on)

We know it's possible, but just don't see it done with Hyperspin for some reason.
I searched youtube and the web, and only came up with a couple.
(someone felt the need to do a Maximus Arcade theme though?!?!)

It's an early WIP, but I liked the direction mbasile was going for his Mario Kart themed driving cab:

I'll probably do something similar for the next incarnation of my driving cab.
(just need to ditch the arrow and keep the wheel on the screen, which I'm sure he did in later revisions)

Maybe the default is complete to the point that nobody feels the need to mess with it.
The default setup is basically a different theme for every game.
Think about how massive of an undertaking that is.....a different theme for every game.
It kinda makes you not want to start over from scratch.

When I first tried MALA and the default layout loaded, the first thing through my mind was "this ugly thing has got to go"  

I'm working on a different MALA layout for each gamelist in my new cab, and it definitely has it's faults.
I've made some slick looking backgrounds, but the plain text game lists look out of place.
I wish there was an option to apply some effects to the text in addition to using different fonts.
(maybe I'll use the Hyperspin wheel images instead    )
Videos have black bars on the sides or top, depending on how I have the video window sized.
Decided to mess around with the few animation options and they are horrible.
Moving pics and GIFs must be the same size as the entire screen?!  
EDIT:GIFs can be any size and can be resized in the mala layout editor, but they don't work in windows 7.
With all its warts, it does everything I need to do for this build; monitor rotation based on mame.xml (which I can modify), arcade games using other emulators integrated into MAME list and using data from mame.xml, right click gamelist building.

Neither front-end is perfect.  Each has it's strengths and weaknesses.
If I were building a cab-less emulator setup for use with gamepads and my TV, I'd use Hyperspin with the default themes.

[Dazz]

Dazz, Im just looking for slick examples.  No need to clarify slick, just shoot some winners my way.

Any timeframe on 2.0?

This one is quickly becoming one of my favorites...  Not sure if he's got it completed or not though.

!

[rockyrocket]

So my two cents are that personally for a multi emu cab I prefer gameex as i find it easier to navigate big lists as text.
I guess that some people like their front ends one way and others another, just like some people have a text view in their file manager when other prefer a big icon its all a matter of taste.
I,ve never gone for hyperspin as i found it too busy and a bit cartoony, but really liked the hyperpin layout so was pleased to find this one..http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?7740-Simple-Arcade-Theme-%28neonnets-04-19-10%29 but had to remake it.
Anyway here are some examples of a simple hyperspin layout and my gameex theme.
   

I tried to find the above theme but it seems the creator withdrew it.

[fallacy]

my mala frontend

[rockyrocket]

Got a bit bored this morning so thought I would skin my HTPC and decided to give hyperspin another go.

[Le Chuck]

Got a bit bored this morning so thought I would skin my HTPC and decided to give hyperspin another go.

That's actually a really good idea.  You control it all with a wireless gamepad?

[rockyrocket]

Yeah a gyration airmouse/remote and a xbox 360 controller, hyperspin is set as a favourite in xbmc.
Still early days for me and hyperspin though.t hink i will only be using it with the htpc though and sticking with gameex for multi emu cabs and mala for mame only ones.

[gbeef]

I like HS also, i tried MALA i found it wasnt as easy as some people say it is. But ive seen some amazing FE.  of course each front has a big learning curve once you get the hang of it your set.

For me i found HS easy to mod. As i just over wrote files, They only downside to HS you need a machine with some horse power, Its all flash based. I do however have it running on a  mini MTX board. it seems to run great. My HS 2.0 is optimized, i know the HS team has done some recent updates. Overall i think its a matter what you comfortable programming on HS or MALA.

Heres what ive done my cab.
I hope to add different cabinet animations.

[rockyrocket]

nIce I like it!.

[TheShaner]

Here is where I am at on my MALA interface. 



I like the choice to go with MALA so far.  It's straight forward, and very responsive.

[TopJimmyCooks]

Was there ever anything definite about whether or not 2.0 is going to support monitor rotation? 

Gotta say I'm not too stoked about how slow everything was in 3 HS vids I saw above. GBeef's wasn't bad in that respect.  I know all those guys have way more PC grunt than I do too.  Just Mala with no vids for me, I like to move fast and I usually play 6 or 8 different games in a session. 



Note the joystick idea totally cribbed from HS.  Also, Per Dazz's logic I only allow p1 to control the FE - but I could see it being an issue for the 2 headed beast, you cant do everything from player 2.  It's a special case that comes up only rarely. 

Love how in one of the vids someone said HS 2 is just around the corner . . . .
          ...............
              ........................................
                    ..................................................................................

Just kidding, I know those guys are busting their hump trying to make it good. 

[drventure]

Yeah, Mala's handling of videos still seems a bit rough around the edges. Given the way it kind of bogs the UI, i'm guessing the loading and playing of the video runs on the same thread as the UI, which is unfortunate.

Hopefully, loadman will get some time at some point to look into that. I suspect there's way's to improve the feel there, it'll just take time.

On the other hand, If I can ever get a little free time myself, I might finish Engine18, which has it's own Video/animated GIF/Images loader/player that supports alpha channel transparency.