is it ok to use a plasma on a virtual pinball table?

[Malenko]

I was shopping for an inexpensive but good LCD when the best kind of affordable (read:FREE) Plasma fell into my lap. Now the TV has issues, like 2 connectors (that I wont use) are broke and for some reason the image tiles, Ive gotta look into it, but it cant hurt to set up the software with this TV.

As for the Virtual Pinball table aspect, I've read/heard that plasmas are ok on their backs for images, but that they build up a tremendous amount of heat. Would it be ok to use the TV like this if I were to, for example, take the back plastic off and set up a couple of 120mm fans to pull in cool air  and a couple of 120mm fans to push out hot air.



I figured worst case I either have a TV I can fix (if it cant be used in the pinball cab) or I have a TV I need to recycle

[HaRuMaN]

Do it!

Can't go wrong with free... as long as you can fix it, your heat issues should be no problem with adequate ventilation...  use a couple of 120 mm fans on the back of the pin, one pushing, one pulling, or something similar.

[HaRuMaN]

Or... 2 fans in the very bottom to blow air in (at the tv), and two fans in the upper back to pull hot air out (across the tv) would work really well I think.

[Charlie97L]

i've seen some plasmas go wonky when they were not oriented as intended, but they were older models, so that may have been fixed.  i'd lay it down and test it before i decased it.

[Malenko]

I'll definitely lay it downn a table before I go building anything or dumping more money into this project

I planned on going with a 4 fan set up (2 in 2 out) for the TV and separating the air space from the TV and the PC, I cant draw a sketch of the plans right now (at work) but I will when I get home. I just wasnt sure what kind of heat these things put out cause my LCD gets pretty hot and I hear plasmas are 10 times worse

[Ginsu Victim]

Being plasma, depending on the unit, there could be the risk of burn-in, especially when you're talking about a pinball table.

[ark_ader]

Throw caution to the wind and do it. 

Just please keep us updated on your building process. 

[Malenko]

what a terrible picture.....







NOT! 

yeah I know, its just MAME running. I havent even looked up how to do virtual pinball so that starts tomorrow. Hell theres gonna be like 2 feet of snow on the ground, I ain't goin no where. I think my spare Dreamcast is gonna go in there too, Ikaruga looks freakin AMAZING with a vertical output via VGA cable. Big thanks to my GF Bonnie (you've seen her pink box, its in the 3rd pic still not quite done, I told her it was an Xmas gift, I didnt say WHICH Xmas), she talked her parents into GIVING me the TV, weut weut!

Also, I've had the thing running for like 45 minutes and its still cool to the touch, the rear metal is heavily ventilated but I still plan on going with the 4 fan set up and separate air chamber for the plasma TV. The last thing i wanna do is kill the display and its not like fans cost much

[milkit]

plasma tvs are not supposed to be laid on their backs

[riley454]

plasma tvs are not supposed to be laid on their backs

I got the same advice from the manufacturer's documentation of our plasma and advice from salespeople, experts in the trade etc. From all accounts, a plasma screen should ALWAYS be stored and transported vertically(in the normal TV viewing sense), and NEVER laid on its back, even for transportation purposes.

Trying to dig a bit deeper, all I can find is lots of 'unqualified' ideas from lots of websites agreeing that the problem with laying a plasma screen on its back may cause the thin glass of the screen to break as it is engineered to be in an upright position. Care during transportation may overcome this apparently, but there is also suggestions from transporters who will refuse to carry plasma TVs unless they can be stowed vertically.

My original thoughts on the orientation was uninformed and based on the assumption that anything other than vertical will technically damage "something" inside. I'm yet to be convinced 100% otherwise. My secondary research on the orientation possibly damaging the glass seems to be a highly likely cause of damage to a plasma screen.

From the original question, if the screen works horizontally and you are taking off the plastic framework, make sure you independently secure the screen in your cabinet to ensure there is no natural movement within the cab that may affect the mounting of the plasma screen.

Keep us all informed how your plasma screen performs horizontally over time. It might clarify the advice of manufacturers and opinions of users.

[Malenko]

Well its not much of a test but I left the plasma flat on its back for about an hour or so running various MAME games (vertical orientation rotated to fill the whole screen) the sides and back remained cool to the touch, but the glass itself was warm (as in slightly warm but FAR from hot) so this changed my ventilation plan a little.

here is my idea:



pinkish things are the 120mm fan openings, figured it sucks cool air in and half is funneled above the TV and half below. Then another set of fans in the back to push the warmed air out. This should keep the glass cool(er) This of course is just theoretical, I've gotta build a box and test air flow but before all that Ive gotta figure out how to get some pinball on the PC,heh

[DashRendar]

That moving air will do a GREAT job of fanning the flames when it catches on fire!   

J/K

[mytymaus007]

WOW I had one of those Gateway Plasma's I bought it in 2003 one of the first on the block to have one. I love it, but sold it to get some money back to buy an new one

[RandyT]

I wouldn't sweat the "not supposed to use it on it's back" crowd too much.  I have never seen any piece of documentation stating this to be a problem.  If anyone has, and can prove it (link to a PDF from a manufacturer, etc), then I would love to see it.  So far, such requests by me have yielded no results.

As an FYI, I worked in the precision glass manufacturing business for about 12 years.  All sheet glass is shipped vertically.  This is because the nature of glass is to sag under it's own weight.  It's amazing what very little pressure, on even a small piece of glass, will do to the shape.  Well, at least under an interferometer.  But as the ratio of thickness to surface area decreases, the glass gets weaker and weaker, and it will eventually break under it's own weight.  Much sooner, if given any type of shock (even thermal).  Obviously, one can't support the middle of a plasma screen window, so shipping and storage needs to be vertical to place gravity over the much smaller area.  When the sheet is vertical, it becomes very thick, and has a very small (top) surface area.

De-casing shouldn't be a problem for the screen.  LCD's, and likely plasmas as well, are self contained, self-supported modules.  The plastic casings do very little for strength and are primarily cosmetic.  A rather obvious indicator for this is the fact that a mounting plate doesn't secure to the case, rather the frame of the internal structure the plastic cases are screwed to.

If you are paranoid about shock to the screen, there are a number of options for "floating" the screen inside the cabinet.  Some thick, semi-rigid foam rubber with holes for your mounting bolts will absorb any shock you are likely to give the machine.  With the weight of the plasma and the cab totaled, it's very unlikely that it's going to get banged, or lifted and dropped.  The cushioning will readily take care of pretty much anything else.

And don't even consider not using a cover glass of some nature.  Put some vents in the front with a filter and a good size fan in the back.  You'll probably need to make sure the screen is accessible for dusting and such, as this will probably increase what would normally collect on the face.

I have a 42" that is waiting for me to do the same thing to.  If LCD's were as good as plasmas for this application, then I would have bought one.  But for now, you can't beat the price / performance ratio of large plasmas for virtual pins, IMHO.

RandyT

[Charlie97L]

i'm glad it worked out for you!

i guess they resolved the screen going wonky with blob stuff i saw on some plasmas back in the day.  i think that was a gen 2 one, though so i'm not surprised!

yay!

[Malenko]

yeah I just set up 1 table on visual pinball and set up HyperPin and pinMAME; Im torn on if future pinball is worth it or not. Its like an extra 100 tables but triple the system requirements and I'm not really up for swapping this computer into the MAME cab, just too much work.  I need to finish setting up some MaLa game lists on KI2MAME and finish some minor software updates on bonnie's pink box then start cutting out the body of the pinmame cab; cause if I start this pinball debacle I'll never get anything else done.

[pinballwizard79]

IMHO just do VPM for now.

& remember me when I PM you questions as I build mine 

[NIVO]

comeon malenko! full tilt(pun intended) lol, you gotta go all the way, FP included 

[Franco B]

Big thanks to my GF Bonnie (you've seen her pink box, its in the 3rd pic still not quite done, I told her it was an Xmas gift, I didnt say WHICH Xmas),

That sounds familiar! 

Good luck with the project Malenko. I really want to do one in a couple of years once I have some other projects out of the way.

[Dazz]

Hey Malenko,

Make sure that you start a build thread on the HyperPin forums in the Cab section.  We are always excited to see new builds and how they are progressing.  I picked up a 42" LCD this evening and will be building a pincab as well.  I just need to finish my re-build of my MAME cabinet before I really dig into the pinball stuff.