another newbie needs controller setup advice.

[willyum]

Please help with controller setup. I'm broke so I only get one shot at this (will probably have to hold off on the stainless steele upgrades till next year). OK, I plan to order the SlikStik 27" Arcade Cabinet & Classic (Combo Kit), because it would look like a real chop-shop job if I cut the parts myself.
I wanted to alter the lay-out for a more 'Defender/Stargate' friendly configuration. I also wanted more of a symetrical feel as well as R/L trackball control. I sent an initial draft to SlikStik and to Kevin Steele at RetroBlast where some minor configuration flaws were noticed so it is now updated and hopefully fixed. I'm new to this stuff and most of you have already learned the 'Right' way, so could you look this over and let me know if there are any trouble spots I should change. The boxes are 1 square inch. I also want to illuminate all the blue buttons to match the illuminated blue trackball (also player 1-2 buttons)

Also, it says SlikStik charges an extra $50 for custom configurations....Is that $50 for every hole moved or a flat $50? cause I believe about 15 items are moved, that would be an extra $750. I hope that's not the case.

MY controller upgrades and additions:
2 - Perfect 360's upgrade from standard 8-way's
1 - Top fire added
2nd pause button added (will probably use for 'Esc' key to exit games.)

Automatic 'combo' upgrades:
Tempered Monitor Glass.
Double Pinball Buttons.
Trackball Illumination.

[SteveJ34]

What's the purpose of all the blue buttons surrounding the trackball?

[willyum]

The top blue button is actually part of the Asteroids/ Defender 'Hyper space' configuration above it, not connected to the trackball. The bottom, left and right are the three buttons that normally come with a trackball. They are normally L, L & R mouse buttons.
So I put a 'left mouse'  (fire button) on both sides of the ball for left or right handed players and the 'Right' mouse button on the bottom. also If I remember correctly Centipede had the fire on the L, and Missle Command had it on the R.

You think it is bad positioning? would I constantly hit the bottom button too much? I havn't played a game with a real trackball in years, I usually use the mouse. I figured my hand would be comming in at either a L or R angle and that I probably wouldn't hit it by accident.

Thanx in advance for any info.

[LeedsFan]

The $50 fee is a one off flat fee for settinng up the CNC drilling machine. Once you agree your layout they will set the machine up just to do your panel.

Not sure how they encode their buttons.... but I did not put any seperate mouse buttons on my panel. I wired up two buttons on the Player 2 side as normal buttons AND mouse buttons. You will be using those buttons as either one or the other... not both.  Doing this makes the panel look a lot less cluttered as well.

[Tiger-Heli]

I remember correctly Centipede had the fire on the L, and Missle Command had it on the R.

Centipede had one fire button on the Left, Missile Command had three fire buttons on the left.

[RayB]

People need to stop thinking of trackballs as reproductions of the mouse! Your buttons need not be tightly packed to the trackball. You could define the top 3 buttons next to either joystick as your mouse buttons.

[Jabba]

People need to stop thinking of trackballs as reproductions of the mouse! Your buttons need not be tightly packed to the trackball. You could define the top 3 buttons next to either joystick as your mouse buttons.

Hey Ray, does this mean that I would run two wires from a button, one to the I-PAC SW1 and one to the OPTI-PAC (L-Mouse Click), or is this a software configuration thing?

[Tiger-Heli]

Hey Ray, does this mean that I would run two wires from a button, one to the I-PAC SW1 and one to the OPTI-PAC (L-Mouse Click), or is this a software configuration thing?

Could be done either way.  For MAME only use, I would just wire it to the opti-pac and set MAME to use mouse clicks for P1.  If you will be playing PC games as well, you might want to run multiple wires as you suggest.

[willyum]

The $50 fee is a one off flat fee for settinng up the CNC drilling machine. Once you agree your layout they will set the machine up just to do your panel.

Not sure how they encode their buttons.... but I did not put any seperate mouse buttons on my panel. I wired up two buttons on the Player 2 side as normal buttons AND mouse buttons. You will be using those buttons as either one or the other... not both.  Doing this makes the panel look a lot less cluttered as well.

Thanx for the info. So how does it work, do I just send them the grid I posted? I put everything in my shopping card and went almost to the end of 'checkout' and still didn't see anything for alternet configurations. I sent them my first template and never heard back from them. I guess they're busy from the sale. How is it usually done?

With the trackball they use, it automatically comes with the mouse buttons (L,L,R), That's how they have it from Happ's. I don't mind, in fact I think I like the extras.....as long as they don't get in the way (more buttons to do a light mod on)........Also now that guy has the blue illiminated balltop joysticks......IT'S ON!


As far as centipede, millipede and missle command, if the most popular trackball games have the buttons on the left, why do most of the controller manufacturers put them on the right?

[willyum]

Just in case anyone hasn't seen the new joysticks......

johnnysmitch Is the man!!!





That's from this post...

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=21886

[paigeoliver]

Trackball buttons on the right are incorrect. Anyone doing that has no idea what they are doing. It would be like putting the turn signals in a car on the right side, THEY DON'T go there.

Most people are right handed, right handed people use their right hand to control fine control things such as mice, trackballs, guns, etc. The average left handed person is also fairly competent with doing things with their off hand due to the fact that we live in a right handed world.

Now if you are right handed you can try this experiment yourself. Go ahead and start using your mouse with your left hand. Now try to play Quake that way.

When you put the buttons on the right side of the trackball you force that majority of the population into a fine control with a hand that isn't trained to fine control situation.

A trackball isn't the same as an 8 or 4 way joysticks. Those are crude, you just point them in the general direction you want and you are using your whole hand. The buttons are the more difficult to control item there, which is why joysticks go on the left and buttons go on the right. With trackballs it is the other way around because a trackball requires more precise control than buttons do.

[LeedsFan]

Trackball buttons on the right are incorrect. Anyone doing that has no idea what they are doing. It would be like putting the turn signals in a car on the right side, THEY DON'T go there.

Most people are right handed, right handed people use their right hand to control fine control things such as mice, trackballs, guns, etc. The average left handed person is also fairly competent with doing things with their off hand due to the fact that we live in a right handed world.

Now if you are right handed you can try this experiment yourself. Go ahead and start using your mouse with your left hand. Now try to play Quake that way.

When you put the buttons on the right side of the trackball you force that majority of the population into a fine control with a hand that isn't trained to fine control situation.

A trackball isn't the same as an 8 or 4 way joysticks. Those are crude, you just point them in the general direction you want and you are using your whole hand. The buttons are the more difficult to control item there, which is why joysticks go on the left and buttons go on the right. With trackballs it is the other way around because a trackball requires more precise control than buttons do.

I'm not sure I agree with this.... but I may just wire up two buttons on P1 side as well just in case. What about a spinner then? Would you use this with your right hand?

By the way... I'm left handed for writing but right footed for kicking. I play pool left handed, but throw a dart right handed.
I haven't actually played a trackball game properly yet. But just rolling the ball seems more comfortable with the left hand.  Wiring in two extra buttons on P1 side is not exactly difficult though, is it?

[paigeoliver]

You are left handed, so there is no way you are going to be able to really grasp the GIANT difference in manual dexterity right handed people have between their two hands. Yes, trackball in left hand will feel more natural to a lefty, but a lefty can deal with off hand stuff a whole lot easier than a righty can.

Since everything is designed for right handed people you will find that the left handed people are much more trained in their off hand. You yourself say you kick with your right foot and throw darts with your right hand. Better not ever give a rightie a dart in his left hand, he would be lucky to hit the wall, much less the dart board. We don't really use our left hands for anything other than as a supporting hand.

Or I could be wrong, along with every arcade game designer ever, since pretty much NO trackball games were ever released that placed the only buttons on the right.

[pointdablame]

As a righty, I have to agree with Paige... there isn't really a need for that button to the right of the trackball.

My girlfriend is left-handed and plays sports right handed, and just overall can do things pretty well with either hand.  Me on the other hand, my left hand is damn near useless for precise work.  If you ever see me, don't give me a dart in my left hand or I'll have to prove that Paige is right

[Minwah]

I have mixed feelings about this 'trackball side' issue.  Paige is ovbiously right in terms of how real arcade machines are layed out...

For a mixture of reasons I have ended up with the trackball more or less in the middle of my panel, but the buttons are to the right.  Now while I am right-handed and as a rule *totally useless* with my left hand, I am more than comfortable using the trackball (& spinner) with my left hand.  The exception are golf / bowling / horseshoes games where I use my right hand (buttons don't really need to be used at the same time as the ball).

So I am not saying it is 'correct' to have buttons to the right of the trackball, but it may not be 'incorrect'

I do find it interesting that joysticks are usually to the left of buttons - I agree that a joystick is not as complex to operate as say a trackball, but it is certainly more difficult than pressing a button...so on that basis buttons should be to the left of joysticks...in practice I find stick in left hand is easiest tho.

[Tiger-Heli]

So I am not saying it is 'correct' to have buttons to the right of the trackball, but it may not be 'incorrect'

I'm left handed, and I remember "crossing over" my hands to play Centipede, so I could work the trackball with my left hand and operate the button with my right.  Wish I could remember whether I used to do this for tempest as well, but I can't remember . . .  (Doesn't seem like I did, though.)

But I plan to have a desktop controller with a USB trackball or spinner, so I can just place it on either side of the buttons and be set to go.

I do find it interesting that joysticks are usually to the left of buttons - I agree that a joystick is not as complex to operate as say a trackball, but it is certainly more difficult than pressing a button...so on that basis buttons should be to the left of joysticks...in practice I find stick in left hand is easiest tho.

Interestingly, I am comfortable with the stick on the left, but I think Paige is correct.  Pressing the buttons as quickly and at as many timing critical locations is more complicated in most games than operating the joysticks.

[GGKoul]

People need to stop thinking of trackballs as reproductions of the mouse! Your buttons need not be tightly packed to the trackball. You could define the top 3 buttons next to either joystick as your mouse buttons.

I added 3 buttons on top of my Trackball for L/R Mouse clicks and the 3 button configuration works great for Missle Command and various Golf games.  It works great.

[LeedsFan]

Well....  we can discuss this all day. Most of us will have two player or four player panels that use maybe 6 buttons for the P1 and P2 layouts.  It's no real hassle to wire in two more wires on the left or right side for mouse buttons.... even if it's only for your mates who may prefer to use the other side.

I'm going to take Paiges advice..... I'll wire in the left side as well as the right side. At least there's a choice then.

[reebboy]

Have you tried making a mock up of the control panel with the buttons and controls to scale and in the exact location you are going to place them to see if it felt right??? When I built my panels I spent about a month on just designing my panels and making sure they felt right. I cut out a piece of paper the exact dimensions of my panel and cut out cardboard buttons and squares representing the controls. I placed them in all sorts of configurations and acted like I was playing a game on it. Sometimes I felt that moving a button 1/4 - 1/8 inch made a huge difference in the way the controls felt.

If you feel that the buttons around the trackball may get in the way, make a mock up of it a simulate playing a trackball game on it. If you find that your hand keeps hitting the buttons then you may have a problem. If not, then the buttons are ok.  

[willyum]

Sorry I stirred up a lefty / righty debate but I guess that means the ambidextrious (something like that, you know what I mean) idea for my pannel is good?

Also I did try zooming the image to scale and everything seems right except that bottom button under the trackball. I thought my hands would come in at more of an angle, it's hard to tell if I'll be leaning on it. I'll probably just get one of thoes button caps just in case.

You guys have been great, I still need to know about that SlikStik custom ordering. They still havn't gotten back to me. What do I send them to make sure I get a propper recreation of my design. I'd like to start drawing it up while I wait for them to get back to me if I can't use the one I posted.......I don't wanna miss the sale, it's over this month. What's the procedure?

Thanx