Need help on how to use manual transmission in videogames

[xenphor]

I've used manual in real life one time, and I rarely ever use it in video games, but I want to learn how to use it. I'm playing Daytona and I don't even think it's possible to play that game with automatic because I can't take turns without excessive breaking. However, in that game I actually cheat and map the gears to individual buttons so I can go from 4th to 2nd gear and completely skip 3rd, which I'm assuming you can't do in real life or other games.

So how should I be using manual in either Daytona specifically or, more generally, other games that use it more realistically? How do I know when to shift? How do I know when to break vs. changing gears? Do I downshift and then break or break and then downshift? How do I upshift so that I don't stall out? I'm always distracted when using manual because I'm either in too low a gear or too high and then lose tons of time.

For now I'm using a controller so keep that in mind.

[MrThunderwing]

I can't speak for sim racing games (as I never play them), but in arcade racers no two games behave the same way in terms of how manual gears work, in terms of drifting and cornering, so it's not really possible to give general advice that applies to all of them. So, for example, what works in Daytona USA won't work in Scud Race or Outrun 2 or Daytona USA 2 (unless, supposedly, you're using the Hornet in Power Edition but even then it feels different to me compared to D1...).

In terms of specific advice for Daytona USA, using individual buttons to shift is a valid way to play, and the ability to skip gears (i.e. 4th to 2nd) is something you can do with a proper shifter in the arcade and is how the game is meant to be played (and, as you asked, is something you can do with a real-life gear change as well). The idea in Daytona is to drop to a low gear and turn, to start initiating a drift, and the go back to a high gear when you've got the car at the correct angle to get the car to stop sliding and complete going through the corner without hitting a wall or coming off the track. The pros use a 4-2-4 (so going from fourth to second back to fourth) sequence with their gears to do this. I always seem to have a bit of trouble doing that though and find that a 4-1-3-4 sequence seems to work best for me. I'll post a video of me playing against a buddy to demonstrate it below (I'm the red P1 on the left). Using this technique you can do every sharp corner in both the Beginner and the Advanced course without having to touch the brakes once. The Expert course is another matter altogether though and a combination of brakes and gears is needed here I find (but TPH I've never fully mastered this course so others might disagree).



The drifting technique in Daytona USA 2 is a bit different and requires a combination of both brakes and gear changes. It's a lot easier to spin the car out if you're not careful.

[BadMouth]

If playing with a gamepad type controller, I'd want sequential (shift up, shift down) shifting regardless of the original controls.
This is possible with RacerMAME and the H2Seq programs (also works in model 2 emulator).
http://racermame.altervista.org/index.html

In the older games that only had hi/lo, pay attention to the speed you are going when your speed stops increasing or only increases slowly.
IIRC it's around 180 on Outrun, but I haven't played it for a while.  Just before you hit the speed where low gear is going to top out, shift up.

Like MrThunderwing said, on 4-speed games the shifter is used in place of the brake a lot (when I play anyway).

I typically ignore the brake unless the game has a hairpin turn where it's required.
These are games.  The reality of how a shifter and clutch work in real life usually don't apply. 

[Fursphere]

My personal preference is to avoid using a manual shifter (any type) if its an option.

After driving so many clutches in real life - sports cars, military 6x6 trucks, pickup trucks, almost anything you can imagine - video game clutches and shifters fail.  The feedback required just isn't present in video games - so I just avoid it if possible.

To each their own of course.   

[xenphor]

I can't speak for sim racing games (as I never play them), but in arcade racers no two games behave the same way in terms of how manual gears work, in terms of drifting and cornering, so it's not really possible to give general advice that applies to all of them. So, for example, what works in Daytona USA won't work in Scud Race or Outrun 2 or Daytona USA 2 (unless, supposedly, you're using the Hornet in Power Edition but even then it feels different to me compared to D1...).

In terms of specific advice for Daytona USA, using individual buttons to shift is a valid way to play, and the ability to skip gears (i.e. 4th to 2nd) is something you can do with a proper shifter in the arcade and is how the game is meant to be played (and, as you asked, is something you can do with a real-life gear change as well). The idea in Daytona is to drop to a low gear and turn, to start initiating a drift, and the go back to a high gear when you've got the car at the correct angle to get the car to stop sliding and complete going through the corner without hitting a wall or coming off the track. The pros use a 4-2-4 (so going from fourth to second back to fourth) sequence with their gears to do this. I always seem to have a bit of trouble doing that though and find that a 4-1-3-4 sequence seems to work best for me. I'll post a video of me playing against a buddy to demonstrate it below (I'm the red P1 on the left). Using this technique you can do every sharp corner in both the Beginner and the Advanced course without having to touch the brakes once. The Expert course is another matter altogether though and a combination of brakes and gears is needed here I find (but TPH I've never fully mastered this course so others might disagree).



The drifting technique in Daytona USA 2 is a bit different and requires a combination of both brakes and gear changes. It's a lot easier to spin the car out if you're not careful.

Is that some handicap or something in daytona? How is he getting 16s?

What about games that are pseudosims like Gran Turismo 4? Specifically, in challenges where you have to overtake a bunch of cars starting from the back? Is it still the same, using downshifting to brake and shifting up when you redline?

[MrThunderwing]

Is that some handicap or something in daytona? How is he getting 16s?

In Multiplayer Daytona the car that's losing gets a speed boost (I presume this is also the case with more than two players), which is how my mate was able to get a fastest overall lap than me and keeps managing to catch me up even though he's not driving particularly well. This is also due to the simple design of the beginner circuit. On a circuit like the Advanced course the speed boost alone isn't enough to get by as you'll be able to see below. (This probably isn't the best example of me drifting as I totally cock things up in the 3rd lap)

What about games that are pseudosims like Gran Turismo 4? Specifically, in challenges where you have to overtake a bunch of cars starting from the back? Is it still the same, using downshifting to brake and shifting up when you redline?

Like I said dude, I don't so sims of any kind, I just find them dull.

[Malenko]

In life and in most sims, you want to heel-toe to blip the rev when shifting. And while driving around on the town it is possible to go from 4th to 2nd; if you try it in a normal car at a high rate of speed you wont have a transmission for very long . Look up what a money shift is

In video games like Daytona you can downshift to reduce speed with the quick quick, in life its better to use the brakes.

[xenphor]

So if you can slow down by downshifting in games with no penalty then it's better than braking? Also, what is the speed advantage of manual in video games? Are you supposed to shift earlier or later than an automatic?

[MrThunderwing]

Generally in arcade racers (I'm thinking specifically Sega here) cars with manual gears tend to have faster overall speeds compared to automatic transmission. I think Outrun 2 is an example of one that doesn't, but in that game if you initiate a drift by quickly shifting down and back up again you can take corners practically full speed, compared to having to tap the brake to do it with automatic that will consequentially result in some speed loss. The cumulative effect of this will result in much faster overall times in the game.

You will normally have some visual indicator on the screen that lets you know when you should be changing up to the next gear - normally in most games it'll be a tachometer. In Daytona 1 and 2 you can see the tachometers by the countdown timer. When they reach the yellow section that's your cue to change up. Normally you'll have other cues as well such as the noise the engine's making and, obviously, your speed plateauing once you reach the top speed of that gear. If your timing's good you should be shifting up gears at the same pace as an automatic.

I wouldn't get too bogged down by the technicalities of all this stuff though, just give manual gears a try and have a bit of an experiment with them to see what works for you.

[xenphor]

When they reach the yellow section that's your cue to change up. Normally you'll have other cues as well such as the noise the engine's making and, obviously, your speed plateauing once you reach the top speed of that gear. If your timing's good you should be shifting up gears at the same pace as an automatic.

I thought manual was supposed to allow for faster acceleration or taking turns faster? You're supposed to shift at the same time as automatic?

[Malenko]

I thought manual was supposed to allow for faster acceleration or taking turns faster? You're supposed to shift at the same time as automatic?

Sounds like you're confusing video games and reality.   Manual allows you to dictate what gear the car is in and that's about it. Most modern cars today have 4 gear automatics and 5 gear manuals, so the shift points aren't the same. Most video game cars are 4 speeds either way so shift points would be similar. Without getting too complex into it, number of gears and gear ratios arent the same thing.

[Fursphere]

I thought manual was supposed to allow for faster acceleration or taking turns faster? You're supposed to shift at the same time as automatic?

Sounds like you're confusing video games and reality.   Manual allows you to dictate what gear the car is in and that's about it. Most modern cars today have 4 gear automatics and 5 gear manuals, so the shift points aren't the same. Most video game cars are 4 speeds either way so shift points would be similar. Without getting too complex into it, number of gears and gear ratios arent the same thing.

Most modern transmissions have a final drive ratio of 1:1 (excluding overdrive stuff).  So at top speed, they're the same.

Video games, on the other hand, usually give a slightly higher top speed to the car when manual shifting is chosen.  But since most video games aren't straight line drag races - this doesn't really have a huge impact on the overall game. 

[Malenko]

Most modern transmissions have a final drive ratio of 1:1 (excluding overdrive stuff).  So at top speed, they're the same.

I kept it generalized as not to confuse the guy.I doubt he even knows what a final drive gear ratio is. If I wanted to argue semantics I'd say that automatics are usually heavier than manuals and automatics rely on fluid pressure to switch gears, that puts pressure on the flywheel and torque converter resulting in less power to move more weight. But this is an arcade board and we really shouldnt bring real world car specifications into a discussion about Daytona USA.