The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Forum/Website Discussion => Topic started by: saint on April 16, 2005, 09:46:52 am
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Should a "Debate" board be created as a child of the "Everything Else" board? Religion, politics, and current events would be moved from Everything Else into Debate.
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No we don't need one... As there will be MORE mud slinging in this Debate board then good.
Plus having a Debate only board will bring Debate first people to the forum then BYOAC first people who happen to like Debating. As 99% of the people that on are this forum found this site because they were interested in BYOAC first... not debating.
As I for one don't want see more TAPilots on this forum. As we should be debating the concepts of building Arcade Controls, and not get in to a hard core debate on Religion and Politics were peoples feelings get hurt. I say, we "ban" these topics instead of building another forum.
I'm Canadian, and I travel to the US all the time for work. And there is a couple of small talk topics I don't bring up with my American colleagues... Gun Control, Who you voted for and Reglion. As there is nothing I can say nor they can say that will change mine or there outlook to the world.
And I don't want my favourite forum to become a place of "bickering" between members that are here to share experiences building Arcade Controls.
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I wonder how many other "no" votes are also a vote for no controversial topics at all...
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I wonder how many other "no" votes are also a vote for no controversial topics at all...
I think that GGK's vote is only partially a "no controversial topic" vote. He does seem to have a specific concern that things would get worse with a separate forum (and doesn't seem 'against' leaving things as they are.)
But, as I noted in the other thread, I don't personally agree that splitting it would bring in any more outside-arguers than keeping things the same. I also don't think a split would cause more work for the mods. I could be wrong, but in my view it's "6 one way, 1/2 dozen the other". The mods will either have to respond to troubles in one forum or in another. So I simply don't see a downside to splitting it. It seems win/win to me. All the content stays for those who want it, but it gets moved to a place where people don't have to see it.
But, along the same lines as your question, Chris, I've wondered how many "I don't care either way. But it's acceptable the way it is" votes end up being "no" votes.
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I voted No, simply because I don't believe this is necessary. It is a bit to extreme to set aside a forum simply for the purpose of deliberately posting topics which will encourage heated, flame-warring, debates.
If a debate/controversy develops, it will do so naturally in a thread. After awhile, the thread will just die out and go away. But to have an entire forum, which not only fosters but promotes and encourages starting new flame-wars, doesn't seem like the greatest idea.
I love the Everything Else forum, and I think the current format suits it best. While there is some controversy over banning certain topics from being discussed, its ultimately up to the individual User to read or not read, to participate or not participate, in a thread.
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Shouldn't it be a requirement (of sorts) to be an active member on the arcade parts of the forum to be considered "eligible" to participate on the debate parts of the Everything Else forums? It would definitely help some to keep it from becoming more out of hand than normal.....
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No. It's a rediculous idea and it will stifle otherwise real quality discussion.
Most of the time hot topics don't get started as hot topics. A lot of times when people post a topic it turns into a hot topic, and I think it should be left up to the original poster (or even a mod) to bring the topic back on track. Not "Big Brother" by moving the post to another forum where it will NEVER get back on track.
-sab
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I've already said this in the other thread but I want this emphasized.
Everything else inludes arcade and video game topics.
If it didn't I wouldn't care.
I come hear to escape from Tom Delay and the pope and I don't want to have to read their name at all when I'm just looking for gaming related issues. It brings me out of the spirit of retro gaming and into my opinions of politics. Even though it is internal for myself and even if I don't read the thread, I have still be mentally pulled from the reason I came.
Personally I would be just as happy to have a split which was -
Everything else gaming
Everything else non-gaming
I would lose the cool EE topics but I can deal with that.
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Yes, I agree that crap should be moved into the sewer.
-S
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How on earth would a new forum somehow stifle discussion?
Please see my previous post (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,35408.msg309966.html#msg309966) for the answer to this question.
You can visit dvdtalk.com, talk about all aspects of DVDs, and share friendly help, with your DVD-loving peers, about what to do in Chicago and how to put together a good teriyaki sauce without having to look at a debate about whether or not AIDS is man made or things like "They won't get their liberal club membership card until they blame Bush for not curing cancer yet."
Well if you want to compare apples to apples, I think we need to wait for this BBS to reach 45,555 members like the DVDTalk forum. Maybe then we'll have enough political posts to warrant a new forum just for politics.
I challenge you to do a search on this BBS.
1) Set Search for to: pope bush god
2) Select Match any words
3) Set Message Age to 0-3 days (the number of days in the first page of Everything Else)
4) Uncheck all forums except for Everything Else
5) Click Search.
I just did this and I came up with 3 posts. 1 from you (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,34549.msg300106.html#msg300106), and the other two used the search terms as an expression ("Good God, man!" (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,35166.msg307141.html#msg307141)).
You have a problem with not reading 3 posts to get to your Applebees complaints and chicken marinade recipies? That just seems a silly to me (and a little rediculous) and certainly doesn't warrant a whole new forum.
-sab
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Personally I would be just as happy to have a split which was -
Everything else gaming
Everything else non-gaming
Saint, if you feel something needs to be done about the extraneous posts I vote for monkeybomb's idea.
-sab
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Personally I would be just as happy to have a split which was -
Everything else gaming
Everything else non-gaming
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Everything else gaming is already Arcade Miscellaneous....
Again, I say we need a Control Panel forum before another forum gets created
But that's not where the ultracade and mame licence got moved to. They are gaming and went to EE
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But that's not where the ultracade and mame licence got moved to. They are gaming and went to EE
Thats because it wasn't arcade related, and had its own different form of politics.
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A general chat section and a politics & religion section would work best. Almost every angry flame war (or regular war for that matter) starts over politics or religion.
-S
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How on earth would a new forum somehow stifle discussion?
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A general chat section and a politics & religion section would work best. Almost every angry flame war (or regular war for that matter) starts over politics or religion.
-S
Or splitting the EE board. ;)
I don't think it's the topics so much as the bickering that results. Look at the attacks building up in this thread. Like I said before, we debate about everything.
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(1) Your previous post has no example of how discussion will be stifled.
Sure it does. Read (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,35408.msg309966.html#msg309966), it (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,35408.msg309966.html#msg309966) again (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,35408.msg309966.html#msg309966) and (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,35408.msg309966.html#msg309966) maybe (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,35408.msg309966.html#msg309966) you'll (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,35408.msg309966.html#msg309966) get (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,35408.msg309966.html#msg309966) it (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,35408.msg309966.html#msg309966) now (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,35408.msg309966.html#msg309966).
(2) Your search-challenge is meaningless. Doing a search from the last 3 days is irrelevant.
Not really. It's a testament to how often a "hot topic" is introduced to the EE forum. As an administrator, that would probably be the first place I would look to find out if I needed a new forum because that would tell me about how much activity the new forum would get. I've only looked at the past 3 days, but 1 post a day (note that this is not 1 thread a day) doesn't seem like enough to warrant an entire new forum.
But if you need to see nasty political discussion erupt in the EE forum in the next 48 hours to convince you that it happens, I'm sure that somebody can oblige. Maybe somebody will invite TA Pilot back.
As noted several times, I'm not disagreeing with you that it doesn't happen. I'm just saying it doesn't happen enough for a whole new forum. I'm not sure how many many different ways I can say it.
If you'd take a second to think about the other people on this forum and what they might or might not want, then maybe you'd understand why I support the separation of the forums.
Oh would you please point me to the post from you where you are clearly explaining your point of view on this topic for the sake of the Arcade Controls community? I did a search but I couldn't find it. If you haven't said it yet then I can't think of a better time than now!
THE SKY IS FALLING!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!
I think creating a whole new forum for a few posts is just drastic. The posts where people are obstinately spewing religious or political rhetoric are a little annoying, but I just don't see what's so dang hard with just plain not hitting the "Reply" button.
To be honest, I'm getting to that point in replying to your posts in this thread. We're all good guys here but this is getting a little tedious.
-sab
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A general chat section and a politics & religion section would work best. Almost every angry flame war (or regular war for that matter) starts over politics or religion.
-S
Or splitting the EE board. ;)
I don't think it's the topics so much as the bickering that results. Look at the attacks building up in this thread. Like I said before, we debate about everything.
...and this thread just started out as a simple 2-option poll! With the risk of becoming post-police, I think the community here needs to get a little more responsible with their own threads. If I start a thread, that thread becomes my responsibility to maintain and make sure it stays on-topic unless I deem the off-topic subject is okay. That way people that have problems with flamewars can only blame the creator of the thread and not the entire community.
Maybe then certain people will eventually get reputations that will keep other certain people out of their threads and make it easier to ignore flamewar threads.
No new forums, just responsible thread owners :)
-sab
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I don't understand why so many people are arguing so vehemently against creating a new forum dedicated to hot-topic issues. Perhaps someone can answer a few questions so I can properly put this whole thing into perspective.
Are the number of subforums allowed by BYOAC that finite? Someone argued that EE shouldn't be split because we need a CP subforum first. Why is this an either/or situation? Why not ask for both?
How does creating a subforum dedicated to political and religious thought stifle free expression? That's like saying building a church stifles religion. If anything, I would expect political and religious threads to increase on BYOAC.
Compare the subforum for Conga lines to a subforum for political and religious rants. Conga lines can be annoying. Threads poking humor at the Pope's death can be annoying and offensive to some. Why was there no one arguing against creating a subforum for Conga lines? Did they pass the "X amount of posts per day" criteria that some are using as a litmus test?
While believing that an Internet forum community can be self-policing is a great idea, it is a little naive. Having an unenforced "gentleman's rule" for an Internet forum is like having no rule at all. Asking someone to be responsible for themselves and their actions while they post anonymously on an Internet forum? Yikes.
Look, I don't think that splitting hot-topic discussion away from non-political talk is going to be a disservice to anyone. If I were a moderator, I'd think it would be in the forum's best interest to maintain a certain comfort level for my users and guests. Create the forum, and if it doesn't get used, sack it or keep it around as a pressure valve for the next time some culture war topic comes around.
I just don't see how anyone would think this is a bad idea It's a win-win situation for everyone, IMHO.
APf
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This is how the freedoms in the world get narrowed down to nothing,one person gets insulted and everyone pays, we have people censoring everything these days....if you dont like what you see or read DONT LOOK OR READ IT that should be the end of the story, why does everyone on the forum or whatever the case may be have to pay for it.
Follow the rules and the EE section is no worse then your local news.
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This is how the freedoms in the world get narrowed down to nothing,one person gets insulted and everyone pays, we have people censoring everything these days....if you dont like what you see or read DONT LOOK OR READ IT that should be the end of the story, why does everyone on the forum or whatever the case may be have to pay for it.
Please explain to me how it is censoring to create a dedicated board for political and religious topics?
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Are the number of subforums allowed by BYOAC that finite? Someone argued that EE shouldn't be split because we need a CP subforum first. Why is this an either/or situation? Why not ask for both?
No, the number of subforums are not finite (technically).
I'm pretty sure that person wasn't considering it as an either/or situation, I think he was just trying to state his opinion that a CP subforum was to him (and should be to Saint) a higher priority.
How does creating a subforum dedicated to political and religious thought stifle free expression?
I assume you're referring to my post about "stifling" useful discussion? "Free expression" and "useful discussion" are completely different things. I'm not sure where you came up with the "stifling free expression" thing.
Compare the subforum for Conga lines to a subforum for political and religious rants. Conga lines can be annoying. Threads poking humor at the Pope's death can be annoying and offensive to some. Why was there no one arguing against creating a subforum for Conga lines? Did they pass the "X amount of posts per day" criteria that some are using as a litmus test?
I don't know the answer to that question.. I don't pay attention to conga lines (unless they're made up of girls in bikinis, but that's a different thing I think) :) If there is a difference, I think it's that people don't find "conga lines" offensive, just mearly annoying.
While believing that an Internet forum community can be self-policing is a great idea, it is a little naive. Having an unenforced "gentleman's rule" for an Internet forum is like having no rule at all.
And Utopian, I know, but it leaves the onus up to the thread owner and no one else, so they suffer the consequences directly as opposed to people like monkeybomb. I've seen other BBS software that allows you to give "rep points" to people that post well. Maybe something like that could be instituted here? Would that help do you think?
Look, I don't think that splitting hot-topic discussion away from non-political talk is going to be a disservice to anyone. If I were a moderator, I'd think it would be in the forum's best interest to maintain a certain comfort level for my users and guests. Create the forum, and if it doesn't get used, sack it or keep it around as a pressure valve for the next time some culture war topic comes around.
So far this is the first real argument I've read in favor of a new forum. I really think this is a valid point, but here's what I'm afraid of:
If I post something in EE, like my random number generator post, that doesn't really have so much to do with religion but it was misconstrued as theological rhetoric until I clarified it again. What would have happened to that post? I'm afraid of the moderators being too draconian in moving it into a forum where it's just going to get lambasted before it even had a chance!
No, I don't think the mods here are like that and I understand mistakes like that will happen, but since every single one of us is affected by religion, politics, and/or Terri Schiavo the line is much much grey-er than, say, EE-gaming/EE-non-gaming.
-sab
P.S. Kudos again, APFelon, for your rational and well-articulated post.
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This is how the freedoms in the world get narrowed down to nothing,one person gets insulted and everyone pays, we have people censoring everything these days....if you dont like what you see or read DONT LOOK OR READ IT that should be the end of the story, why does everyone on the forum or whatever the case may be have to pay for it.
No one is suggesting that these topics should be deleted, or not allowed. We just want to move them into another area. I don't understand why you think this is a bad idea. You and others say if you don't like them, don't read them. Moving them into their own forum will make it easier for us to do so.
-S
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Moving them into their own forum will make it easier for us to do so.
And I think that's exactly what some people don't like. It's harder to force your views on people if they don't come to where you're ranting.
I live in Augusta, GA. A couple of years ago, Martha Burk and her organization wanted to come down and protest the Masters. She wanted to protest at the main gate, but our local authorities decided she was a hazard to their revenue stream and set aside a separate area for her to protest in, a half a mile away. She protested the moving of her protest to no avail, and hardly anyone noticed her there.
Although this is bad for real-world political protest, it is good for a board like this, which is supposed to be about arcade controls and not politics. The political and religious talk here is a sideshow, so let's move the sideshow into it's own tent so everyone can enjoy the rest of the carnival.
--Chris
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I try to pretty much stay out of any thread that is full of debating....
I enjoy reading the non-debate everything else threads.....
I say make it a child board of the everything else.......
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Look guys, at some point everyone of us will take offense to a thread or two. My feeling is that it's just the nature of the internet. I don't see a point in creating a subforum for topics that people may find offensive. If things get completely out of hand, the topic goes to post hell (which I would love to be able to read btw;)).
You guys shouldn't need "help" to not read a thread. The EE forum is the sideshow of this site, it's not 100% politically correct, nor should it have to be. It's a place to cut loose.
Why not have separate threads for EVERYTHING? Presidental politics can be one, congressional politics could be another, Rice should definately have her own, then have one for each religion, one for each part of the Bill of Rights, One for each controversial news topic, etc. Get my drift? This website is about arcade stuff. It is divided into different categories of arcade stuff. The rest of "life" is dumped in the EE forum. That makes sense to me and should make it clear to newcomers what this site is about.
[Nobody take the following personally]
Let's be realistic, this is the internet, prepare to be offended/lied to/cheated/sworn at/etc. To ask that Saint and the other mods try to create a safe haven for each of our beliefs is not only asking a LOT, it's also contradictory. My beliefs are not yours, yours are not mine. Like I said at the start, at some point we will all be offended. It's OUR responsibility to act responsibly. Lighten up, maybe all this debate really is funny. Besides, we're all missing the real issue. Which is PETROLEUM! ;)
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This is how the freedoms in the world get narrowed down to nothing,one person gets insulted and everyone pays, we have people censoring everything these days....if you dont like what you see or read DONT LOOK OR READ IT that should be the end of the story, why does everyone on the forum or whatever the case may be have to pay for it.
Please explain to me how it is censoring to create a dedicated board for political and religious topics?
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Censoring would be to not allow the topics. Giving them their own place doesn't even come close. By the same logic you would say that talk about PCB's have been censored because they belong in the arcade Misc. instead of everything else.
On the topic of giving everything it's own board and getting offended. You guys are using extremes to make a point in a case where the logic doesn't hold true. No one is offended by this :P and it is clear that the line must be drawn well short of that. Many people are offended when their core belief system is attacked or presented in a light manner. It's not hard to see the difference.
The very hot topics are those that would be generally considered rude to discuss in person. The topics basically boil down to religeon and politics. Not subgroups of that and not every topic that could possably offend someone. Just the obvious. If it's not obvious to you then don't worry, it only needs to be obvious to Saint.
The argument "this is the internet" is absurd. The board doesn't allow nudity. But the internet does.
The very reason for this board is to create a nitch inside the intersent where we can comfotably talk about arcade related topics and a little bit about life. A subforum would help add to that without taking anything away. What exactly are you losing again?
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This is how the freedoms in the world get narrowed down to nothing,one person gets insulted and everyone pays, we have people censoring everything these days
I was infuriated in April 2003 when all artwork on BYOAC was censored and sent to its own forum.
Real quality discussion was stifled that day and everybody on BYOAC paid a heavy price. A heavy heavy price....
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Censorship is not really the point. I am a firm believer in a free speech internet. The Internet is a collection of sites each run by it's own ops according to the ops choice of rules.
All internet sites are censored. You can't post pictures of hardcore porn here on Saints site for example. Saints house, Saints rules, simple. There are sites where hardcore porn is welcome. If you search I suspect you will find one or two :angel:. Because these sites exist I don't feel that the internet is very censored.
I'm not in favor of splitting EE this way because I think a 'hot topic' is hard to define and would be a nightmare for the moderators to enforce. If someone puts a G. Dubya Bush reference in a reply to a post about motorcycles? Where does the topic end up? How about someone saying 'thank Jesus' is a post about saving a vintage cab? I think the EE forum suites this purpose well already. With warning It gives a place for a community to voice opinions that could be off topic in other forums yet still be within the boundaries of saints more relaxed rules.
Too much fragmentation can be the death of discusion.
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All internet sites are censored. You can't post pictures of hardcore porn here on Saints site for example. Saints house, Saints rules, simple. There are sites where hardcore porn is welcome. If you search I suspect you will find one or two :angel:. Because these sites exist I don't feel that the internet is very censored.
You can't post pictures of girls that are wearing "painted tops" either... :-\
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It makes sense to categorize the subjects which this site is about. Looking for artwork? Ask the artwork gurus, looking for monitor info, ask the monitor gurus, it makes it easy to build a cabinet. Everything else is less important. That's why it's all jumbled into a single forum. If there was a religion/politics furum, there'd be religious/political gurus around. That's not what the site is about. Those topics are less important. That's why some of us would like to see a separate forum for CP design. That has more importance to the "theme" of this site than both religion and politics.
IMO, it boils to this: A subforum for political/religious debate would encourage that topic to grow just like the forums for artwork etc have encouraged those topics to grow into a larger part of the site. It's self defeating. It's easier to stay out of the couple threads that are around now, than the 20+ that would be around.
What we would lose is the focus of this site. Suppose for an instant that nudity was allowed but was granted its own forum. It would take off. People would come for that and not the arcade info. Same thing with this, it's already happened in the past with political discussions. An entire forum dedicated to controversial topics would only turn into a "fight club" and corrode the friendly atmosphere (99.99% of the time anyhow ;)). A wise man once said: "You reap what you sow".
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IMO, it boils to this:
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I agree with the QB.
Saint are you still reading? Is there a point to this anymore? Any chance for a switch to take place or have you decided against it?
I'd be intersted in the perspective of the moderators as well.
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Why was there no one arguing against creating a subforum for Conga lines?
Well, I did, but I don't count. That sub forum is pretty hidden now, just one tiny link right underneath the buy/sell/trade forum.
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It makes sense to categorize the subjects which this site is about. Looking for artwork? Ask the artwork gurus, looking for monitor info, ask the monitor gurus,
Looking to get into a heated argument? Look in the Politics & Religion section.
Everything else is less important. That's why it's all jumbled into a single forum. If there was a religion/politics furum, there'd be religious/political gurus around.
This seems unlikely. Atari Age has a Politics & Religion section. I don't think anyone goes to Atari Age just for that section. The people in there are folks who are into vintage video games and are also interested in discussing P & R.
That's why some of us would like to see a separate forum for CP design.
As a few others have pointed out, it's not a one or the other situation. There's no reason why there couldn't be both. However in my very humble opinion, there's no need for a separate forum for control panels. This is Build Your Own Arcade Controls, the main forum is for control panel related discussion.
IMO, it boils to this: A subforum for political/religious debate would encourage that topic to grow just like the forums for artwork etc have encouraged those topics to grow into a larger part of the site. It's self defeating. It's easier to stay out of the couple threads that are around now, than the 20+ that would be around.
Well that's great for both sides of this discussion then isn't it? I mean you guys who like that kind of stuff will have more topics to view. Those of us who don't won't have to be bothered with them.
-S
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Saint im just curious, will one vote change the outcome and when is the voteing over.
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Saint im just curious, will one vote change the outcome and when is the voteing over.
My guess is that this is a "poll for opinion" as opposed to a "deciding vote" and will simply allow saint to gauge people's feelings and come to his own decision.
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As it stands now if this poll has any weight it shouldnt be changed, its pretty much 50/50.
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As it stands now if this poll has any weight it shouldnt be changed, its pretty much 50/50.
LOL No really, tell us how you'd like to see this turn out :D
This poll will have whatever weight saint gives to it. I wouldn't assume that 50/50 means one thing or another.
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As it stands now if this poll has any weight it shouldnt be changed, its pretty much 50/50.
LOL
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Why spin off a Debate board when you could instead spin off a Blind-Links-to-Supposedly-Funny-Webpage board. Then all the interesting stuff that keeps the traffic so high at Everything Else could stay there, and we wouldn't have to be bothered with non-comedy.
Or it could be left as-is.
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As it stands now if this poll has any weight it shouldnt be changed, its pretty much 50/50.
You can also look at as half the users think it would be a good idea. As QB said, ultimatly it's Saint's decision.
-S
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Yeah, but the half that think splitting is a good idea are fools. They each only get half a vote.
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Wow 30 votes out of 7275 registered users. thats lame. thats why elections don't work, some people just don't seem to care.
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Hey guys - thanks for all the opinions and feedback! I made up my mind, then changed it, then changed it back, about a half-dozen times while reading your thoughts.
For now, we're going to leave everything else the way it is and not split it off into separate forums.
I appreciate everyone's input!
--- saint
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How unfortunate. :(
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How fortunate. :)
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How fortunate.
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Ultimatly it was saints decision and I'm willing to bet the stuff people wrote in the thread played into his decision alot more than the poll did.
and oh yeah
Shmokes won. ;)
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Well, it is Saint's home and he can do as he likes; if this is what he likes, he should register arcadepolitics.com before someone else does.
I understand the arguments that "if you just don't like it, don't go there", but if that's the law of the land, can we at least keep the divisive garbage out of the sigs, avatars and avatar text?
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can we at least keep the divisive garbage out of the sigs, avatars and avatar text?
Do you have any examples of this?
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Are you not in this same thread with me and Shmokes? ???
"Blasphemy is a victimless crime."
Tell me the sole purpose of this isn't to piss off half the population. In fact, he's so proud of it, his sarcastic title text is, "Creator of the Universe - Voted Brilliant by BYOAC Republicans!"
I could go pick through the profiles and look for the others, but so can you.
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Are you not in this same thread with me and Shmokes? ???
yes, no...what?
"Blasphemy is a victimless crime."
Tell me the sole purpose of this isn't to piss off half the population.
I don't see how thats forcing an opinion any anoyone but OK.blas
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I apologise if my sig has offended any pelicans. ;)
-S
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I don't see how anyone could deem that as being offensive. plus he can't put that in a mod? or admin has to.
It's not a matter of itr being offensive; it's a matter of dragging politics through EVERY STINKING PART of this forum.
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oh well we will just have to try to keep posting funny stuff to knock the political stuff off the front page............
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Delta88 has an avitar that should not be allowed. In addition I can't read his posts because it is impossible not to stare at. Seriously, if it can get people in trouble at work it doesn't belong in an avitar.
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I just read a thread about Beer in Everything Else, and it ends up as, guess what, talking about politics. Gee, how did that happen? Oh, yeah, YOU!
When you are talking about laws thats politics.
politicians make laws. I continued typing in a thread that already had a political discussion going on in it. I did not start mentioning laws and regulations on alcohoul sales.
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? WHY MUST YOU HAVE POLITICAL GARBAGE EVERYWHERE?
What do you mean by you people? am I different than you? or arent we all just people living in the same happy world?Delta88 has an avitar that should not be allowed. In addition I can't read his posts because it is impossible not to stare at. Seriously, if it can get people in trouble at work it doesn't belong in an avitar.
this I'd agree with it goes against saints rules on softcore porn avitars.
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Delta88 has an avitar that should not be allowed.
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What do you mean by you people? am I different than you?
You people who must have a dose of politics with absolutely everything you do. You people who LOVE the fact that people get pissed off when you start spouting off. You people who go out of your way to word things in such a way as to rile people up. We used to call these people "trolls"; now they have the "Official Saint stamp of approval".
or arent we all just people living in the same happy world?
Apparently not.
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What do you mean by you people? am I different than you?
You people who must have a dose of politics with absolutely everything you do. You people who LOVE the fact that people get pissed off when you start spouting off. You people who go out of your way to word things in such a way as to rile people up. We used to call these people "trolls"; now they have the "Official Saint stamp of approval".
Flaming on this board gets you banned. And I'm willing to bet thats still the case and will remain the case. So I don't see it as Saint condoning flaming at all. People discuss things. certain things in peoples lives affect what they talk about. If people see politics or religion as a part of a topic, why cant it be part of it.
or arent we all just people living in the same happy world?
Apparently not.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree then.
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Yeah, but the half that think splitting is a good idea are fools.
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If people see politics or religion as a part of a topic, why cant it be part of it.
Because I made the mistake of thinking this forum was about arcade controls.
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If people see politics or religion as a part of a topic, why cant it be part of it.
Because I made the mistake of thinking this forum was about arcade controls.
It is try the main forum. Main Forum
- Building arcade controls, cabinets, console adapters, etc...
but.
Everything Else
- Things that don't fit on other boards. There is more
tolerance for stronger language on this forum,
but the rules for civility remain the same. Bring strong
feelings and opinions -- leave hate at the door.
wich leaves a lot of leway of the topics to be discussed. with one rule I've seen posted what seems like everywhere. be respectful of each other.
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If people see politics or religion as a part of a topic, why cant it be part of it.
Because I made the mistake of thinking this forum was about arcade controls.
It is try the main forum. Main Forum
- Building arcade controls, cabinets, console adapters, etc...
but.
Everything Else
- Things that don't fit on other boards. There is more
tolerance for stronger language on this forum,
but the rules for civility remain the same. Bring strong
feelings and opinions -- leave hate at the door.
wich leaves a lot of leway of the topics to be discussed. with one rule I've seen posted what seems like everywhere.
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You have completely forgotten what we're arging about, haven't you?
My request was:
I understand the arguments that "if you just don't like it, don't go there", but if that's the law of the land, can we at least keep the divisive garbage out of the sigs, avatars and avatar text?
And your back to saying "It's fine in Everything Else". SIGS AND AVATARS DON'T STAY IN EVERYTHING ELSE.
If people see politics or religion as a part of a topic, why cant it be part of it.
Because I made the mistake of thinking this forum was about arcade controls.
the main forum is about arcade controls. I was answering to a single post you made that was refrencing the boards in whole.SIGS AND AVATARS DON'T STAY IN EVERYTHING ELSE.
Is it really necissary to type in all caps? thats the second time youv'e done that now.
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It seems chris is very angery about the EE staying put , and now hes looking for something else to go off on, why are we looking for things to get abset about.Those little words above the names are a joke in my estimation, nothing to get crazy over.
Saint made the correct choice IMO something that was already on the board stays unless an overwelming vote says move it.
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I just read a thread about Beer in Everything Else, and it ends up as, guess what, talking about politics. Gee, how did that happen? Oh, yeah, YOU!
When you are talking about laws thats politics.
politicians make laws. I continued typing in a thread that already had a political discussion going on in it. I did not start mentioning laws and regulations on alcohoul sales.
My fault on that one. I'm pretty sure I was the first one to start discussing laws regarding beer in that thread. IMO, I don't see that thread as being particularly political, there was just a little good natured ribbing. I was the target of the ribbing and it didn't offend me.
-S
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I just read a thread about Beer in Everything Else, and it ends up as, guess what, talking about politics.
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Rule 106 --- No Warm Brew
Bringing warm (non refrigerated) beer just pisses us off!
Oklahoma has to be exempted from this rule. The only beer we can buy cold is less than 3.2% alcohol (strong water). It's perfectly okay to show up with warm beer provided you also show up with a couple bags of ice.
-S
It seems to me like this was the first political mention in the thread, wich is ok with me because it relates to the original topic.
Many states do not allow alcohoul sales on sundays, aka "the sabbath". Most of these states have have laws that reflect somewhat of a religous nature. so not only did this thread have political points in it but there were religous subtexts in it as well.
Slightly Off Topic Not Directed At Anyone In Particular.
by the way they don't allow motorcycle sales on sundays either, wich I think is assanine. a day is a day. If someone wants off work for their holy day so be it. why force everyone else to follow your beliefs
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Fixed, thanks for the heads up :)
--- saint
Delta88 has an avitar that should not be allowed. In addition I can't read his posts because it is impossible not to stare at. Seriously, if it can get people in trouble at work it doesn't belong in an avitar.
It isn't allowed. I'm assuming Saint hasn't noticed it yet.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,32306.0.html
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I find the decision unfortunate as well. Truly a shame, as I still can't see a valid reason as to why the forum needs to stay the same.
So Saint, how about a comprimise? Change the title description of "EE" to include that it is an "arcade free" zone so those of us who find the discussions there moronic beyond redemption don't have to wade through the pap to find out about BYOAC gatherings, arcade related riddles and the like?
Whether we arcaders gain a board for the trolls or lose one to them, no matter. Just keep the good material away from the pablum pit.
APf
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plus he can't put that [thye status text above the avatar] in a mod? or admin has to.
I missed this point the first time; noticed again re-reading the thread. THis is disturbing. So mods are attaching political statements to people's accounts?
That speaks books about the situation.
Welcome to arcadepolitics.com.
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Holy cow, you guys are acting like a bunch of drama queens over this! Saint made up his mind (for now), end of story. If he changes it, so what?
Are you guys going to participate that much in EE chatter that it really matters? APFelon, I see 16 posts from you in all of 2005, that's just once a week. Chris, even less. It's not like you'll be giving up much by staying out of there (if you're that adverse to the forum layout)!
It's not that big a deal, people!
-sab
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I understand exactly what you're saying and I agree with you 100%. Some of the sigs and avatars are just not called for and this is not the place for them.
However, it's still not that big a deal! Saint's taking care of his BBS by moderating them when they're brought to his attention. What else would you like? What else can anyone do to make you happy?
-sab
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Beneath Chris' avatar it says don't panic. As someone who suffers from severe agoraphobia I take this as a crass, deplorable mockery of my condition. This is unacceptible. Does he really believe that whether or not one panics is always a choice.
How unbearably tasteless. ;)
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However, it's still not that big a deal!
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Beneath Chris' avatar it says don't panic.
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LMAO.....You should add a bit of a sense of humor to your diet, Chris. I don't have agoraphobia.
And the reference to republicans in my title is an inside joke, refering to this thread (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,30832.msg261107.html#msg261107)
On it's face being voted brilliant by BYOAC republicans is neutral. If anything, being a flaming liberal, I should be the one who is offended by it, lol
And considering that I am, in fact, the creator of the universe I don't see how that can be considered inappropriate.
Here's the thing. This isn't a general purpose message board. It's an arcade message board. Hence the lump forum "everything else". I personally find time-wasting blind links to supposedly funny things that turn out to be canned or immature or unfunny for any one of a thousand other reasons offensive. But I'm not going to push for a "humor" forum. There's no reason for an arcade message board to have a humor forum (regardless of whether the jokes are genuinely funny or not).
If you want to see when the meets are it's not too tough to filter them out of the rest of the crap in there, considering they are pinned topics.
Please quit complaining. You're starting to remind me of Kerry supporters. Has anyone ever noticed how whiny liberals are and how dumb conservatives are.
...mwahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!! Political thread, here we come!
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If I recall correctly, "creator of the universe" was Shmoke's choice when I offered him a custom avatar title. The "voted brilliant" portion I added as a joke in response to a thread picking on him (in a good natured fashion I believe).
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You recall correctly
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APFelon, I see 16 posts from you in all of 2005, that's just once a week.
-sab
So... the level of active posting gives credance to opinion, does it?
Well Sir, have a look at WHAT I post and compare it to say... anyone against splitting the board.
Your lame "drama queen" comment was less than appreciated and it suggested that you did not fully digest what I had written.
I suggested a compromise. OOh, how dramatic.
Yeesh.
I will try to put this as plainly as I possibly can in order to avoid yet ANOTHER rude assault over what has got to be one of the weakest Internet arguments I have ever been involved with.
As of this writing, this is the ONLY forum I frequent as most of the other ones have become infested by self righteous political "experts" who all think that their mission on Earth is to be a missionary to whatever political screed they have aligned themselves with. It's tiring, it's boring, it's not worth my time to deal with people who have to inject politics in everything they say and do.
You know those guys who have to make some sexual innuendo in even the most benign conversations? You know how annoying it is? Do you see a parallel AT ALL?
When I started on this forum, it was squeaky clean from all of that political, religious, and "lifestyle" junk that flows from 99% of the other forums out there. Just good people meeting to share a common hobby.
It was fun. It was clean. Nearly zero white noise from people who wanted to tell me about Jesus or John Kerry or George Bush or whatever cultural war topic happened to grace the front page of The New York Times that day. You see, I read political stuff all of the time. But sometimes I just don't want to. Sometimes I just want to delve in to a hobby (and former career) that I still love.
And you know, sometimes people don't need to know that you think America sucks or is great, you believe everything Noam Chomsky puts down on paper, that you think Condoleeza Rice is the next president, you think Michael Moore is a big fat liar or that you think Ann Coulter has an adams apple.
Sometimes, especially in a community that is (or used to be?) so narrow and tight, we can just come together and discuss the ONE LOUSY THING we all have in common without bickering like children and posting things that are DELIBERATELY hurtful to other users of this community.
I took interest in this topic NOT because I want to shut anyone up, or I want to stifle people, or I want to control the content of this forum. No, I want this forum to be as civil and hospitable to ALL people, and I think a stricter code of conduct is warranted within the forum proper. We have people who get their jollies by pissing other people off for no other reason than their own amusement. I strongly believe that this behavior needs to be curtailed.
Have a look at the vote. Somehow, I don't think I am alone in thinking this way.
I thought that the segregation of topics idea was not only a reasonable request, but an incredibly fair one. Despite the LONG rants on this thread and the other one dedicated to the subject, I honestly see zero reason why that it shouldn't have come to pass. As far as I'm concerned, it was a no-brainer question, which basically boiled down to this:
Shall we continue to intermingle arcade topics and politics, or shall we break the hot-topic subjects away from the subjects that most people here actually come to read?
But hey, the decision has been made, and the long term effects will be interesting to see. Maybe I'm wrong and all of that political stuff is doing the arcade building community some service that I can't see, despite the fact that I have seen over a dozen forums overrun and ruined by religious and/or political bluster.
APf
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Please quit complaining.
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AP, the whole point of Everything Else is to give all those things you hate a home in order to minimize their appearance in the other forums. Just don't go to the Everything Else forum. It's as simple as that. I almost never go to the Monitor/Video forum because I have no interest in reading the vast majority of threads in there. No biggie. You, it would seem, have no interest in reading the vast majority of threads in the Everything Else forum. No biggie. but...
Again: Everything Else
- Things that don't fit on other boards. There is more
tolerance for stronger language on this forum,
but the rules for civility remain the same. Bring strong
feelings and opinions -- leave hate at the door.
The rules don't specifically mention "strong feelings and opinions" for nothing. It's not referring to the strong opinions in comedy threads or the harsh language characteristic of the BYOAC Get-together threads. Everything else was created with us riff-raff in mind. We are the yahoos with the strong feelings that the rules are referring to. If a Debate forum is created it's only a matter of time before someone comes in and wants to split it out into two forums: one for devisive topics like religion and politics, etc. and one for any other kind of debates -- say ipac vs. keywiz, or vortex vs. tornado (though, maybe those belong in the devisive forum as well).
Susan Powter said it best: STOP THE INSANITY!
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Thank you very much for making my point for me.
No, thank you very much for making my point for me.......again.
LMAO.....You should add a bit of a sense of humor to your diet, Chris.
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AP, the whole point of Everything Else is to give all those things you hate a home in order to minimize their appearance in the other forums.
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Chris - you should be able to click the "profile" link button at the top, choose "Look and Layout Preferences" on the menu on the left, and turn on these two options:
Don't show other users' avatars.
Don't show other users' signatures.
Which should filter out most of that I believe. Let me know if you can't get to it? I think everyone can but sometimes I'm not sure what I can get to as a mod that others can't.
--- saint
AP, the whole point of Everything Else is to give all those things you hate a home in order to minimize their appearance in the other forums. Just don't go to the Everything Else forum.
Good point. This would be a great suggestion if sigs, avatars, avatar captions, etc. didn't appear in every forum here at arcadepolitics.com.
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Chris, the subject of this thread is "Split "Everything Else" into two boards?"
It didn't change until you lost your battle. Inappropriate sigs and avatars etc. are quashed as you saw in this very thread when someone brought a porn avatar to Saint's attention. But I don't think he wants to run a police state, either. The point I was trying to make by singling out your "Don't Panic" bit was that you shouldn't go around looking for things to offend you. For a long time Drew had a football player in his sig. Team sports can be devisive. I personally know people who will kick you out of their house for disparaging certain teams. I know of at least one case where a man cut off his own testicles (http://www.thisislondon.com/news/articles/16449119?source=PA), he was such a fanatic of his team. But should Drew be forced to remove this sig as soon as someone comes in who hates that player or that team?
A wise parrot who only knew how to say one thing (and in a portuguese accent) once squawked, "People of zee world, Relax!"
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Which should filter out most of that I believe. Let me know if you can't get to it? I think everyone can but sometimes I'm not sure what I can get to as a mod that others can't.
It filters out the image and the sig, but not the custom title or the avatar text.
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Seriously Schmokes. Have you kept up with anything I have written on this topic at all? Have you read any of the posts regarding splitting the forum? I have addressed most of those points that you just brought up... today, in fact.
Honestly. I put the time and effort into reading and understanding what people write. I wish people would extend the same courtesy to me. I guess people just think "OOH, BIG SCARY BLOCK OF TEXT FROM A GUY WITH NO AVATAR" and skim it. And then they talk to me as though I am a child and my points (that they don't bother to fully read) are foolish.
By they way, EE was not created for you riff-raff. It was redefined and redescribed for you riff-raff. That description is not the original one that was around when the forum was created.
And as for this:
If a Debate forum is created it's only a matter of time before someone comes in and wants to split it out into two threads: one for devisive topics like religion and politics, etc. and one for any other kind of debates.
Call Mr. C over and show him what a "slippery slope" argument looks like because here is a prime example. Unfounded, baseless, junk argument.
Argh... You know, this is EXACTLY the crap I wanted to get away from in the EE forum. I effing hate this.
Everybody yakking away and no one listening. Everyone seems to get some joy out of fighting but nothing gets discussed. Everyone thinks that the are so flippin' smart and wise, but they are unwilling or unable to read and understand anything more than 100 words long. No ideas are exchanged because no one actually READS anything. They are too busy indulging in "clever" barbs, insults and slams.
It sucks and I am through with this.
The decision has been made, and my "side" lost. I have already written my thoughts on this and I have no want to write more.
APf
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If your not happy maybe you should not be here.
That is not directed at any one person, its directed at a few.
Ahhhh that feels better my anger is released now. ;D
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If your not happy maybe you should not be here.
Which is the whole reason people wanted the split in the first place.
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I just read a thread about Beer in Everything Else, and it ends up as, guess what, talking about politics. Gee, how did that happen? Oh, yeah, YOU!
When you are talking about laws thats politics.
politicians make laws. I continued typing in a thread that already had a political discussion going on in it. I did not start mentioning laws and regulations on alcohoul sales.
My fault on that one. I'm pretty sure I was the first one to start discussing laws regarding beer in that thread. IMO, I don't see that thread as being particularly political, there was just a little good natured ribbing. I was the target of the ribbing and it didn't offend me.
No, the note starting to take it into political terriotory is:
not in WI, open monday thru sunday.
And you hate us liberals. ;)
That, of course, was certainly just meant to be a fun tweak, but ChadTower wasn'tcontent to leave that there:
I love beer and hate politics. I think that makes me liberal. ;)
No no, if you loved beer and hated America, that would make you Liberal.
And thus I am now taking offense.
(edit: Spelling)
Well you really have to consider the source. Chad and I have always gotten along fairly well, despite the fact that sometimes his "ribbing" can sometimes be a little less good natured than it might have been. So again, I feel like this was directed at me, was meant as a joke, and I didn't take offence.
-S
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plus he can't put that [thye status text above the avatar] in a mod? or admin has to.
I missed this point the first time; noticed again re-reading the thread. THis is disturbing. So mods are attaching political statements to people's accounts?
That speaks books about the situation.
Welcome to arcadepolitics.com.
I'd understatnd your point if it actually said something that made a negitive point. Example:
Shmokes
***
pimp slapper to
you crybaby liberals.
full member
it says (and I cant see it now so i'm trying to recite from memory)
creator of the universe voted genious by byoac republicans.
Hes not trying to "convert you to the dark side" its just a silly statement.
other people have them as well,
DrewKaree
***
specialist
pompus windbag
division
full member
Apollo
***
yes you can have
a custom title.
full member.
If you want to see offensive check out the dc emu forum. theres a guy who is a moderator on that board and has a swastica for an avitar. which is why I don't go tho that board unless I have too.
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I think a big reason that some of us oppose the split is that we don't want to have our own little niche forum with five people regular visitors. We like the occasional post by ApFelon and Monkeybomb. We like it when our discussion becomes so irresistable that Saint is compelled to chime in. Maybe y'all wish you had better will-power, but when the topic of a thread is "It looks like the Pope is about to die" or "1000 Reasons not to vote for G.W. Bush" you can be pretty confident what you're going to find inside. Certainly there are the mystery Subject headings, and I'm the first to rail against those. I think a person should always enter a thread with a good idea of what the topic is. But it's a public forum and sometimes you just have to put up with the ocassional post in ALL-CAPS.
I think we draw a much bigger and more diverse crowd, which makes for much more interesting debates, in the Everything Else forum, than we would in a debate forum.
My point about someone coming along later on, wanting to split the debate forum, wasn't meant as a slippery slope -- one thing leading to the next. I simply mean that the request to create new forums and subforums is endless. I've probably seen it a dozen times on BYOAC alone, and I don't even visit the Board Discussion forum often. My point is that splitting the Everything Else forum is not going to finally settle issue so that peace can reign over BYOAC for years to come. Some people will always be dissatisfied. And anyway, a slippery slope is not a logical fallacy if the chances of the chain of events actually happening is quite high.
There are plenty of safeguards in place, IMO. Avatars can be blocked. Sigs can be blocked. Users can be ignored altogether. Subject headings generally give a very good idea of what the contents of the thread will be like.
But, on the blocking of all that personalization stuff, that stuff is there for a purpose. People like to set themselves apart from everyone else. They like to have things up there that will give other people an idea of who they are. I, for example, know that Chris is a big fan of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy based soley on two little words under his avatar. Maybe I think that series of novels is awful. Maybe I think that the violent destruction of every person on earth (except one, of course) to make way for an intergalactic highway crosses the line on what a person should even joke about. But that doesn't change who Chris is, or the fact that this is a public forum. If I don't like the tiny line under his avatar I just won't read it every time he posts. If something can be said in a post without breaking forum rules it should be allowed in a person's profile. Obviously there are limits to what is allowed, but Saint has to please a lot of people. If he takes a lowest common denominator approach, banning anything that can be remotely construed as offensive to someone, he's going to anger just as many people as if he takes a middle-of-the-road approach. He strikes me as someone who believes very strongly in freedom of expression and prefers to err on the side of tolerance. It's a thin line to walk and I think that most people appreciate how well he walks it. I think few people find him overly restrictive and few people find him overly tolerant. Obviously there will always be some people on either side who believe he is one or the other.
"Peaple of zee world, Relax!
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I think we draw a much bigger and more diverse crowd, which makes for much more interesting debates, in the Everything Else forum, than we would in a debate forum.
But this is arcadecontrols.com, not interestingpoliticaldebates.com. Why must you have political debates here?
There are plenty of safeguards in place, IMO.
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It is interestingdebates.com. And it's lamejokes.com. And it's periodically funnyjokes.com. And it's timewastinggames.com . And it's wierdnews.com.
In fact it's EVERYTHINGELSE.COM
And yes, when there are two people on the entire board that find the phrase "Voted Brilliant by BYOAC Rupublicans" offensive, while to the rest it either means absolutely nothing or they get a kick out of it, you should have to wall yourself in to avoid it. We're not talking about pornography or swastikas.
LMAO, where exactly is this ad hominem attack you speak of. For that matter, where's the previous one you allude to when you say "Once again"? Perhaps you should look up the definition of an ad hominem. Bonus points if you can find the definition for all three types.
And so what if Hitchhiker's Guide is a mostly harmless (cute) flight of fancy. Between 1990-2000 the Harry Potter series holds the number 7 spot of the 100 most frequently challenged (attempts to censor, forbid, etc.) books. Huck Finn holds the number 5 spot. Others include I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings (Maya Angelou), The Witches (Roald Dahl), the Scary Stories series (top of the list), the Goosebumps Series, and The Joy of Gay Sex.
What is "mostly harmless" to you is not to another person. This may seem incomprehensible to you, but I probably find you every bit as offensive as you find me.
"People of zee world, Relax!"
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LMAO, where exactly is this ad hominem attack you speak of.
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And so what if Hitchhiker's Guide is a mostly harmless (cute) flight of fancy. Between 1990-2000 the Harry Potter series holds the number 7 spot of the 100 most frequently challenged (attempts to censor, forbid, etc.) books. Huck Finn holds the number 5 spot. Others include I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings (Maya Angelou), The Witches (Roald Dahl), the Scary Stories series (top of the list), the Goosebumps Series, and The Joy of Gay Sex.
And where does the Hitchhiker's Guide fit into that list?
I'm pretty sure he's just making that point that there's nothing in the world (not even a book a goofily charming as The Hitchhiker's Guide) that someone somewhere won't find offensive. I seriously doubt he has any problem with that book, he's only using it as an example.
-S
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I'm pretty sure he's just making that point that there's nothing in the world (not even a book a goofily charming as The Hitchhiker's Guide) that someone somewhere won't find offensive. I seriously doubt he has any problem with that book, he's only using it as an example.
I know exactly what he's trying to do, and I'm calling him on it. Where on the list of 100 most frequently challenged (attempts to censor, forbid, etc.) books is the Hitchhiker's Guide?
According to http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bbwlinks/100mostfrequently.htm, it's not even on the list.
--Chris
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Politics and religion these days are the most divisive things in the country.
And, as I noted in an earlier post, politics and relgion are literally matters of life and death. The religions or political beliefs of one group or another very literally determine who lives, who dies and what kinds of lives they live.
OTOH, "The Hitchiker's Guide" does not in any way directly determine the lives or deaths of thousands or hundred's of thousands or millions of people. The Terri Schiavo case does, the War in Iraq does, the Presidential election does, the makeup of Congress does, the Supreme court does etc etc etc etc
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Oooh....I've been called out.
I never said Hitchhikers Guide was on the list. I pointed out many books that the average person would consider harmless, or at least mostly harmless, that actually TOP the 100 most challenged list. You'll notice that that's the 100 Most Challenged list, not a list of every book that has been challenged.
Maybe the Hitchhiker's Guide has never been challenged. Maybe it was #1 on the list for 1980-1990.
And yeah, generally speaking an ad hominem is attacking a person's character rather than what the person believes or is saying or is otherwise relevant to the issue. You seem to be talking about a Straw Man -- claiming that your oponent is taking a much more extreme position then he is, destroying that position and then claiming to have destroyed your oponent's argument. But still I did no such thing.
I made a perfectly reasonable analogy between someone being offended by your reference to Hitchhiker's Guide and your being offended by my Voted Brilliant by Republicans. My point is that in either case the VAST majority of people would not be offended, but in either (practically any) case you will be able to find someone who is.
Here's my real question. I love this stuff. I enjoy it. I think it makes me smarter and faster and I learn a great deal about how I see the world when I actually sit down and put it on paper (or 1's and 0's in this case). I enjoy debating and I'm getting a kick out of this argument with you. But are you sure you hate it as much as you say you do? Afterall, the decision is made. The forum stays the same. The rules about Avs and Sigs remains the same. And yet here we are. Maybe, like me, you derive a little pleasure and benefit from articulating your thoughts for the forum. Maybe you think I'm full of crap, as most of us probably think about most everyone else, but you still perceive some benefit of arguing. You apparently DO perceive some benefit.
You should come over to the Everything Else forum more often, man. You've been obsessively monitoring this thread. I would imagine there's something in that.
Changing people's minds doesn't have to be the only goal of debate and argument. It teaches you to think critically. It forces you to take a position, as this is usually a prerequisite for articulating said position. Maybe you will stubbornly adhere to all of your beliefs. At least you'll learn how to defend them logically. And no, I'm not saying you don't know how to be logical, I'm just saying that practice makes perfect.
...and so on.
"People of zee world, Relax!"
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Here's my real question.
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Here's my real answer. I DON'T LOVE THIS STUFF. I've been upset and angry for two days about this. I could hardly sleep last night, and came within a hairs breadth of wiping my hard drive of everything to do with MAME and DOSCab/WinCab. I am not getting a kick out of this argument. I hate it. I have felt hurt from your personal attacks. I have nothing personal against you, even though you say I offend you, and don't understand the joy you and others get from trying to be hurtful in addition to making your point. I really don't get it.
Wow man, I think you may be taking this a little (or a lot) too seriously. I don't think I gave this thread a second thought over the last few days when I wasn't reading it. I'm not sure where you're seeing personal attacks.
I was all for splitting Everything Else, but hey it didn't happen. It's not going to ruin my life or anything. I'll continue looking in there daily, since it's one of my favorite spots on the internet, and I'll continue to try and avoid the threads I'm not interested in. Seriously, don't take online discussions so personally.
I think I'll tack on a "People of zee world, Relax!" here.
-S
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Wow man, I think you may be taking this a little (or a lot) too seriously. I don't think I gave this thread a second thought over the last few days when I wasn't reading it. I'm not sure where you're seeing personal attacks.
I was all for splitting Everything Else, but hey it didn't happen. It's not going to ruin my life or anything. I'll continue looking in there daily, since it's one of my favorite spots on the internet, and I'll continue to try and avoid the threads I'm not interested in. Seriously, don't take online discussions so personally.
A lot of people can't not take politics and religion seriously and personally. Politics and religion are life-altering. I try not to discuss politics and religion with people I intend to remain friends with, although I may have made the mistake in participating in the occasional discussion here.
Imagine an arcade with C-Span playing on a TV next to the snack machines, Rush Limbaugh on another TV over the bathrooms, and political bumper stickers on a number of game cabinets, and being told by the management "If you don't like it, stay away from the snack machine and the bathrooms, and cover your eyes when walking past the games. I'm not moving the TV's to another room, cause me and five of the guys here are political junkies." Sure, you could stay away from the bathrooms and try to tune out the bumper stickers plastered over the side art, but how much are you really going to enjoy that arcade? Although I'm sure you and Shmokes will be in heaven in this environment, to some of us this is just not fun.
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Although I'm sure you and Shmokes will be in heaven in this environment, to some of us this is just not fun.
Re-read this thread, man. I was all for splitting EE into two forums:
Yes, I agree that crap should be moved into the sewer.
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A general chat section and a politics & religion section would work best. Almost every angry flame war (or regular war for that matter) starts over politics or religion.
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No one is suggesting that these topics should be deleted, or not allowed. We just want to move them into another area. I don't understand why you think this is a bad idea. You and others say if you don't like them, don't read them. Moving them into their own forum will make it easier for us to do so.
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You can also look at as half the users think it {splitting EE} would be a good idea. As QB said, ultimatly it's Saint's decision.
Also for what it's worth, I'd rather stick toothpicks into my eyes than watch Rush Limbaugh.
-S
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Also for what it's worth, I'd rather stick toothpicks into my eyes than watch Rush Limbaugh.
Even pre-flavored mint toothpicks.
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Imagine an arcade with C-Span playing on a TV next to the snack machines, Rush Limbaugh on another TV over the bathrooms, and political bumper stickers on a number of game cabinets, and being told by the management "If you don't like it, stay away from the snack machine and the bathrooms, and cover your eyes when walking past the games.
umm as a proprieter of a buisness he has every right to tell you that. although you have every right to tell him he lost a customer and can go :police: himself.
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Also for what it's worth, I'd rather stick toothpicks into my eyes than watch Rush Limbaugh.
Even pre-flavored mint toothpicks.
Especially the pre-flavored ones.
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Imagine an arcade with C-Span playing on a TV next to the snack machines, Rush Limbaugh on another TV over the bathrooms, and political bumper stickers on a number of game cabinets, and being told by the management "If you don't like it, stay away from the snack machine and the bathrooms, and cover your eyes when walking past the games.
umm as a proprieter of a buisness he has every right to tell you that. although you have every right to tell him he lost a customer and can go :police: himself.
Anyway, it's a pretty weak analogy. A better analogy would be an arcade with a TV that was turned off, but labeled CSPAN and another turned-off TV that was labeled Rush Limbaugh and for some strange reason a person finds it irresistable to walk over and turn on the TV even though they know that it's going to piss them off. You don't have to enter a thread if you don't want to. The bumber sticker is actually a great analogy. Should we outlaw bumber stickers on peoples' cars? Should we outlaw the fish with the cross? How about the fish with the DARWIN? How about the fish eating the fish with the DARWIN?
Look, Chris, I'm done holding your hand. I haven't attacked you or insulted you any more than is implied by the fact that I disagree with your position. I find your position offensive because your position is that the things I do are inappropriate and other people need to be protected from me. You obviously find me offensive -- to the degree, in fact, that you can't sleep and are considering giving up on arcade games altogether in order to avoid exposure to me and my kind.
I don't care whether you make a point of not talking politics/religion with people you want to remain friends with. I make a point of talking politics with my friends. Who elected you Queen of England? Maybe the fact that you seem to be unable to remain friends with people with whom you talk politics/religion is a sign that you should approach the subjects with a little more friendliness. And BTW, who exactly do you talk politics/religion with? You say they are "life-altering". Presumably that makes them important, since the affect all of our lives. Do you find people who are already your enemies and talk to them about it? Do you just keep it all bottled up? Do you hope that if you ignore it, it will go away?
For my part I talk politics with almost all my friends and I have a great number of them. In fact, while I've never met Drew in real life or spoken to him on the phone, I consider him a friend. This, dispite the fact that we both maintain a near constant belief that the other one is pretty wrongheaded. In spite of us being mortal political enemies Drew recently found out that I enjoy audiobooks but did not have access to Farenheight 451, which he happened to be in possession of. Guess what he did? He got my address from me, made a copy of it and mailed it to me free of charge.
If you've got sensitive eyes maybe you should consider sunglasses or staying indoors. Don't ask the sun to stop shining.
oh yeah....nearly forgot: "People of zee world, Relax!"
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...
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If we're going to use the acade analogy how about this.
OUR PERSPECTIVE
You're looking for your favorite game and as you walk around you notice a political tee-shirt here and there. Some of it mildy offensive but whatever it's just a t-shirt.
As you continue walk around you hear a comment or two about liberal this and republican that. Anoying but stll no big deal. Finnally You realize that all the good fighting games have long lines but you don't want to leave just yet. It turns out there is a starbucks IN THE ARCADE.
You walk in and it's great, all us arcade geeks just talking about life and little about games. Suddenly you overhear a line or two about religeon and politics. It kind of ruined starbucks. You didn't stick around to hear the whole debate but it certainly changed you mood. Then you see a few of the people you were talking to at starbucks left because they got sick of hearing the politics. Most people seems to ignore it but a few are just getting pissed.
When you go back to the arcade it's not quite as fun. The starbucks left a bad taste and you don't quite look at those the same who were particulary vocal. You still play with them, as MVC has now opened up but there is an uneasy feeling and it's just not as fun as it could have been.
THE OTHER SIDE
Great arcade, great conversation, a few people were complaining about something. oh well, I won't let that stop me from talking. And can you believe the nerve of them asking us to go to the other empty room at starbuck. What babies.
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WHITE SUPREMECIST'S PERSPECTIVE:
You walk into an arcade looking for your favorite game and as you walk around you see a few blacks here and there. Mildly offensive, but whatever.
As you continue to walk around you hear a comment or two about voting this, integration that. Annoying, but no big deal. Finally you realize that all the good games have lines so you go to Starbucks, but the coffee's not the only the only thing black here, if you catch my drift. So Starbucks is ruined. And to make matters worse some of your white supremecist friends have left too after getting sick of being in the same room as blacks. Most seem to ignore them, but a few are just getting pissed.
THE OTHER SIDE
Great arcade, great conversation, a few people were complaining about something. Oh well, I won't let that stop me from talking and being black. And can you believe the nerve of them asking us to go to the other empty room at Starbucks? I thought that crap ended in the 70's.
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BEHOLD!!!!!! The cesspool that is the Everything Else forum! Feast your eyes on the evil ways of such threads as numbers 2, 3, 24 and 35. And um....don't feast your eyes on any of the others!!!!
This is the entire first page of the Everything Else forum as of about five minutes ago. Seriously, people of zee world.....Relax!
edit: It just occurred to me that none of the four bad threads in this list would have been started in a debate forum. #2 is the only one with a debate going on and it was not planned.
1- The Rules of Manhood
2- Vegetarians There is some full-on debate going on in here
3- shmokes critique An all-out assault on me that I started in good fun, I might add that there are some new negative votes, lol - Chris?APFelon? Monkeybomb?
4- Wendy's Chili Update
5- hood mounted rocket launcher?
6- Now THAT'S a utensil! (Hot Rod Pizza Cutter)
7- My civic is more UB3R than YOURS!!!
8- Track and Field Spoof
9- Just booked my Star Wars tickets!
10- Who wants a Nigerian roommate.
11- You Know You're A Child Of The 80's If...
12- powerpoint
13- CGEUK
14- ??? car problems ???
15- File-swappers beware
16- UK 80's TV Adverts
17- What vitamins do you take?
18- A few choice words
19- D&D suggestions
20- my next DIY project !HOME THEATER!!
21- Zip Zaps (or whatever they're called)
22- beer drinking rules
23- BYO Mobile Hotspot
24- XBox Grid Girls Scantily clad women are offensive to some unfortunate people
25- How big is... too big?
26- Arcade- related riddles
27- Orange County, CA
28- Mixing Acetone with gasoline for better fuel economy
29- Littlest Hobo in Spanish
30- Game store promo art
31- Gmes you didn't think you liked
32- Hey y'all, looks like the pope might be about to die
33- I FINALLY found a local one with a clear title.
34- MORE "things to do with gasoline for your car"
35- New Pope Elected! Religion, but no arguing - just people making fun of the new Pope's evilness
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Can't type...too funny.
I say every post has a white supremisist perspective.
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3- shmokes critique An all-out assault on me that I started in good fun, I might add that there are some new negative votes, lol - Chris?APFelon? Monkeybomb?
Get over yourself, dude. I voted you a retard months ago.
APf
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3- shmokes critique An all-out assault on me that I started in good fun, I might add that there are some new negative votes, lol - Chris?APFelon? Monkeybomb?
I think I voted you a house cat a while back as well.
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Get over yourself, dude. I voted you a retard months ago.
My narcissism aside, a debate forum seems like a bad idea.
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Get over yourself, dude. I voted you a retard months ago.
My narcissism aside, a debate forum seems like a bad idea.
Thats funny shmokes , i think your an alright guy now.
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Thats funny shmokes , i think your an alright guy now.
Yesssss......yessss.....everything is going exactly as planned
mwahahahAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
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My narcissism aside, a debate forum seems like a bad idea.
You sure, you hadn't made that clear up to now.
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Maybe creating a Message icon for debate threads would help.
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Maybe creating a Message icon for debate threads would help.
(http://www.bluecamel.org/img/gheyfight.gif)
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Maybe creating a Message icon for debate threads would help.
It seems like some of the debate threads aren't intentionally started out as that. but its not a bad idea for something to get changed on it so people know, but thats more work for the moderators.
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Maybe creating a Message icon for debate threads would help.
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Hey I'm fine with how it is now. If there is something posted that I don't agree with,
it just helps strengthen my believes. And if I had a problem with someones Sig or avatar I could PM them and let them know. Maybe they would change it. Who knows? I don't think most people want to offend someone. That and Sigs and avatars don't mean that much to people. If they feel strong enough about keeping them, then thats there right.
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I find people over think things some time. maybe because I am just a simple county hick. ( I like it that way)
I voted no because I found EE to become my favorite board. I at first I stayed clear of it. It would just plain boil my blood. But I soon realized, if some one got way out of line every one would dog pile and set the offending person straight.
sure things get heated. As it should be if you fell strongly about somethings
but we are able to decide to disagree and move along.
there were certain people who I knew would just tick me off... But I also found in other post that same person would have me laughing my self silly.
so... I found out I like every one and have no problems if we disagree.
I also learned to like people I had judged because of the avatars. This was wrong of me. I would have never realized I was doing this if I had not started reading EE
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do not change a thing. It all good.
if some one gets out of line we are told so .
we can learn to disagree and move on.
some people I thought I did not like . I would find that same person would have me LOL in the next thread. I have adjusted my thinking and found we can all get along and some things just remind ourselves that on this topic we just disagree.
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I propose that it be split into "Everything Else" and "Everything Bacon".
-S
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I propose that it be split into "Everything Else" and "Everything Bacon".
-S
what about "Everthing Toast"..... We need that one too...... ;D
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Don't be silly. ;)
-S
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Four boards required, my caped string-cheese afficionado, with an entirely NEW board needed to be created, totalling five altogether
- Everything Else
- Everything Bacon
- Everything Toast
- Everything Boobs
- Strawberry Speedbags Related
;D
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Drew you forgot
- Everything Jessica Simpson
you may argue that would fall under the everything boobs category but I disagree.....
Jessica is a category of her own.......
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I do keep wondering if we should flag topics as political so as to not suck people into reading it then lacking the self control to not reply (myself included).
Can we make political stuff a sub forum?
-Goz
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I do keep wondering if we should flag topics as political so as to not suck people into reading it then lacking the self control to not reply (myself included).
Can we make political stuff a sub forum?
Are you being fecetious?
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I do keep wondering if we should flag topics as political so as to not suck people into reading it then lacking the self control to not reply (myself included).
Can we make political stuff a sub forum?
Are you being fecetious?
Do you mean facetious, or feces-tious....as in you think he's full of crap? ;D
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I do keep wondering if we should flag topics as political so as to not suck people into reading it then lacking the self control to not reply (myself included).
Can we make political stuff a sub forum?
Are you being fecetious?
Nope no fecal matter involved. ;D I know what you meant.
No was being pretty much to the point. I made the mistake of going in and reading a topic I avoided opening for nearly a year that someone added a new reply to a stale thread. So it peaked my interest. Even with titles like "Brave New World" You can't really tell if its about music, tv, or the ramblings of people with alternative outrageous points of view. If it were separated or tagged I'd know to avoid opening it. While it's true you can guess what it might be about if you see the last post by the likes of Mr C and the rest of the political peeps it's not always easy to tell if its somethine you might find interesting or even remotely relative to the hoby. I know everything else isn't supposed to be arcade related; but it seems we have a number of members who never post in any other section and only in the political threads... hence the possible need for a dedicated section.
-Goz
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I do keep wondering if we should flag topics as political so as to not suck people into reading it then lacking the self control to not reply (myself included).
Can we make political stuff a sub forum?
Are you being fecetious?
Nope no fecal matter involved.
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I do keep wondering if we should flag topics as political so as to not suck people into reading it then lacking the self control to not reply (myself included).
Can we make political stuff a sub forum?
Are you being fecetious?
Nope no fecal matter involved. ;D I know what you meant.
No was being pretty much to the point.
I was asking because you've described exactly what this thread already is.
Or, rather, what it was about before the some Bacon lovers decided to move EE into B/W Discussion :)
You can go see by the poll at the top what the answer is/was. What you're describing is considered "censorship" by some.
I dont want to sensor them, I want to give them the appropriate channel to say whatever they want to say without having to guess what the topic is. They could say that they love sex with penguins while eating bacon and dropping acid while staring at John Kerry or GW pictures.
I was hoping to get this topic backon track. We can't just say oops the poll wins and give up. Maybe not its own forum but with the buy/sell/trade there is a movement to use flags to denote value to people. It could be the same.
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I dont want to sensor them, I want to give them the appropriate channel to say whatever they want to say without having to guess what the topic is. They could say that they love sex with penguins while eating bacon and dropping acid while staring at John Kerry or GW pictures.
No, I understand 100%.
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Here's the thread that inspired the poll in this thread:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=35128.0
whoa. Bury that, I'm a bit of a DK fan now - although he is an acquired taste ;D
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whoa. Bury that, I'm a bit of a DK fan now - although he is an acquired taste ;D
Dude, that's SO not cool. You just told everyone to eat me! >:(
;)
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Don't we have plenty of threads in the EE section to ramble on in?
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whoa. Bury that, I'm a bit of a DK fan now - although he is an acquired taste ;D
Dude, that's SO not cool. You just told everyone to eat me! >:(
;)
I thought stingray was his girl. ???
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whoa. Bury that, I'm a bit of a DK fan now - although he is an acquired taste ;D
Dude, that's SO not cool. You just told everyone to eat me! >:(
;)
I thought stingray was his girl. ???
And all this time I've been calling him my "beeyotch" :-\
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Hey either way, I'm easy.
Which should be abundantly clear.
-S
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Can y'all please allow this thread to die. I don't come to this forum often and I'm afraid one you you yahoos are going to dredge the issue up without my knowing it. Don't be poor losers.
Bush The non-splitters won. Let it go.
For crying out loud, look through the Everything else forum. There are hardly any political threads. I don't just mean right at this moment; go through page-by-page. There aren't many. Political threads probably make up like 2% of the threads in there. And they are ALL identifiable by their subject heading.
At the very least wait until 2008 when Hillary and Rudy are going head to head and the political threads rampup again. For now, crawl into your holes and nurse your wounds.
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Can y'all please allow this thread to die. I don't come to this forum often and I'm afraid one you you yahoos are going to dredge the issue up without my knowing it. Don't be poor losers. Bush The non-splitters won. Let it go.
For crying out loud, look through the Everything else forum. There are hardly any political threads. I don't just mean right at this moment; go through page-by-page. There aren't many. Political threads probably make up like 2% of the threads in there. And they are ALL identifiable by their subject heading.
At the very least wait until 2008 when Hillary and Rudy are going head to head and the political threads rampup again. For now, crawl into your holes and nurse your wounds.
Bump
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You dirty bastard!!! ;D
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I've really lost all interest in splitting EE, I'm just jumping on the "get shmokes' knickers in a twist" bandwagon. ;D
-S
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Well I don't want to upset Shmokes so I think I'll avoid posting in this thread.
oh..... sorry :-\
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you guys should really avoid upsetting shmokes like that.......
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Can you smeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllllll what Cooter is cookin' ?
BACON
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Also I like bacon. I'm not sure if I've ever mentioned that.
-S
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Also I like bacon. I'm not sure if I've ever mentioned that.
-S
I heard a rumor about it around here, but I wasn't sure if the source was credible, after all, he comes from Oklahoma ;)
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Never trust an Okie with a pig farm.
-S
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How about adding a Bacon sub-forum to Everything Else?
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How about adding a Bacon sub-forum to Everything Else?
What an excellent suggestion. ;)
I propose that it be split into "Everything Else" and "Everything Bacon".
-S
-S
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Shouldn't BACON be the main forum and EE be Bacon's sub-forum
???
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Thread's dead :)
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Well, I didn't wanna let this opportunity to go by the wayside what with the new forum and all, but I'm not quite sure where I'm supposed to stand on this one. Shmokes, what would cause the reddest shade on your face? ;)
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I'm torn between lipstick and rouge.
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How about a kick to the 'nads instead? ;D
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Mommy, a strange man just offered to make my naughty parts tingle. I'm not sure how I should feel about that.
Oh...wait, you said kick, not lick. My bad.
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Like you would care either way shmokes. As long as your naughty bits are getting touched by another man, I am sure you will remain happy.
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They'll still tingle, it'll just take a few days before they fall back down before you'll be able to feel anything in 'em ;D
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Like you would care either way shmokes. As long as your naughty bits are getting touched by another man, I am sure you will remain happy.
True that...
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Imma gonna vote No now just cause.
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I think we need a dedicated "tommy" board. ;D
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With a door that only locks from the outside!