How long do you figure someone pops off that handle to add a tab or tongue style handle so it sticks out of the cab so it can be changed on the fly.
Or mods the sucker to add a nice linear driver or small hydraulic push/pull rod to change it automatically?
For the second statement, you need only use a $10 RC servo. I thought about doing that with my Sanwas ages ago, and I think actually someone here has done just that.
so do you need to loosen the 4 screws each time you want to turn it or how does it work? Looks like a JLW type stick. Could i use that restricter on my JLW stick?
How long do you figure someone pops off that handle to add a tab or tongue style handle so it sticks out of the cab so it can be changed on the fly.
Or mods the sucker to add a nice linear driver or small hydraulic push/pull rod to change it automatically?
The tab through the cp is an earlier product from GGG. For the second statement, you need only use a $10 RC servo. I thought about doing that with my Sanwas ages ago, and I think actually someone here has done just that. I think he might have used pushrods, but you just have to have a wheel on the servo rather than a bellcrank, and the wheel can drive against the plate directly.
Randy, this looks like being a great new product, I think I would prefer this over Ultimarc's MagStik simply because it comes standard with a ball top and you have heaps of different ball top options.
What I'd really like to see from someone, is a joystick like this with the integration of a servo for automatic switching with the ability to have both a computer control it, or for those people who have 60 in 1 type PCB setups, have the ability to switch simply by pressing a push button.
Any chance you might produce something like this one day Randy?
Dude's gotta turn a buck! Imagine how much R & D would go into that, only for maybe 20 people in the whole world to buy it?
Randy, and I mean this with sincere curiosity, did you do or find any market research on the possible popularity of this feature?
I wouldn't think R & D would be all that much, you would just need some minor adjustment to the joystick's mounting plate to mount an off the shelf servo with a cog that fits nicely against the cog like edge on the current restrictor.
I'm in it for the "long haul", so if I can help a small percentage of the community (keeping in mind that it is always growing) with a new design, then I will be happy. After 9 years of doing this, I think it's pretty reasonable approach that benefits everyone. :)
I don''t think the cog idea would work well. There is no center to rotate about, so all the force would be on the side of the screw. This would equal binding and burnt servos. But the handle on this design offers a lot of possibilities. I have a box full of servos (who said it wouldn't cost much for R&D :laugh:) so when my laser gets set back up, I'll be looking at this again. Longevity and safety are my biggest concern with regard to servo use. Had I not seen one melt into a blob, I would probably be a little more "gung-ho" on the idea. To the folks who have used servos: What have your maintenance requirements been like? Has it been trouble free, or something that needs tinkering? Or have you scrapped the idea and gone back to something more reliable? I see a few have done it, but so far, not too many updates on the project 6 months after reasonable usage.
RandyT
I haven't used mine for a long enough period to give any advice of maintenance.
When I finally get around to building a proper control panel I do I intend to use a servo.
My project had one servo switching two joysticks at the one time and it seemed to switch them both effortlessly despite my poor mounting of the servo.
I discovered using one servo to switch two joysticks at once that you need the centre of the servo aligned perfectly with the centre of the two joysticks, something that probably isn't an issue when switching just one joystick.
Perhaps even if you could design your Omni2 joystick so it had some sort of universal mount for servos so people could attach them easily if they wanted to.
I used this servo on mine: http://www.robotgear.com.au/Product.aspx/Details/421 (http://www.robotgear.com.au/Product.aspx/Details/421)
With this controller: http://www.robotgear.com.au/Product.aspx/Details/403 (http://www.robotgear.com.au/Product.aspx/Details/403)
What would you pay for a stick and controller with this feature? (question open to anyone :))
RandyT
What would you pay for a stick and controller with this feature? (question open to anyone :))
RandyT
Wow, when I suggested something that would "help a small percentage of the community" at the beginning of the year, you compared it to catching mosquitoes with a mouse trap, and said it wasn't worth the effort. Fortunately, a mosquito trap was released shortly after (gotta love coincidences) and it seems to be doing well. Your tune seems to have changed since then...
Anyway, I fail to see the appeal to this. You turned an underpanel manual switchable restrictor into an underpanel manual switchable restrictor? Is the plastic stud the main feature? If you're going to be placing your hand so close to the restrictor, why not just use the edge of the restrictor to turn it? Or is the restrictor mounting hardware the main feature? Are the restrictor mounting studs lock-tited into the holes? Otherwise, those nylock nuts won't be doing much. One thing to take away from this is the large OD nylon washers, should provide a lot of insight for the DIYers, I seem to recall a recent thread asking specifically about that. Convince me why I should use these instead of JLWs for my next project.
How does the throw of your OMNI2 stick compare to the Mag-Stik Plus throw?
So... how long is that little handle? About 10mm? And could it be changed or extended even if it was a home DIY job? Does it just screw in there or is it permanently glued in place?
Are the restrictor mounting studs lock-tited into the holes? Otherwise, those nylock nuts won't be doing much.
I have no need or desire to "convince" anyone to use the OMNI2 over a JLW, or any other stick.
They are designed to be fixed as either one or the other at installation time, and left that way.
Still wondering about this one. It's a pretty important part of the design, just to ignore the question. Because if someone wanted to loosen the tension on the restrictor, and those studs didn't have a thread locker in the joystick base holes, there would be a good chance that the stud would start to back out of the hole before the nut backed off the stud.
If you don't have enough confidence in a product to try to sell it to a skeptic, the skeptic will remain skeptical. Still don't see the major advantage of this over just installing large OD nylon washers on the restrictor screws of a standard JLW. :dunno
I don't know about you, but when I see screws or bolts holding something together, I view it as being designed to be taken apart, changed up, and serviced at will.
Still wondering about this one. It's a pretty important part of the design, just to ignore the question. Because if someone wanted to loosen the tension on the restrictor, and those studs didn't have a thread locker in the joystick base holes, there would be a good chance that the stud would start to back out of the hole before the nut backed off the stud.
"Positive restrictor tension adjustments", means the tension won't change unless you want it to.
I picked up a stick very similar but it has an additional 2 way capability.
Is there ever any need for a 2 way for sticks of this size and if so can you implement this on your product?
As for comparison to the mag stik plus, I've also got a panel with one of those and for all intents and purposes I consider it to be a dedicated 4 way joystick. The throw is just too short for me to accurately use it as an 8 way. So my opinion is this would have a big advantage due to the longer throw.
Still don't see the major advantage of this over just installing large OD nylon washers on the restrictor screws of a standard JLW. :dunno
Well on our J-Stik which has been around for many years we use nylon washers, springs between the screw heads and washers to apply pressure and a low-strength threadlock which allows adjustment. Would guess similar here.
I have no desire to copy a competitors existing product, when doing so removes valuable and popular features from my own.
First one to put out an auto-switching-physical-restrictor joystick that hooks up to Mame is going to be King of the joystick castle.
First one to put out an auto-switching-physical-restrictor joystick that hooks up to Mame is going to be King of the joystick castle.
Couldn't agree more.
First one to put out an auto-switching-physical-restrictor joystick that hooks up to Mame is going to be King of the joystick castle.
Couldn't agree more.
What happens if you are in 4-way and it's trying to turn to 8-way and your 6-wayyear old has the stick pointed straight up and it can't turn?
What happens if you are in 4-way and it's trying to turn to 8-way and your 6-wayyear old has the stick pointed straight up and it can't turn?
I doubt whether your 6 year old would be strong enough to stop it switching.
where do you go to buy a little motor for something like that?
Well on our J-Stik which has been around for many years we use nylon washers, springs between the screw heads and washers to apply pressure and a low-strength threadlock which allows adjustment. Would guess similar here.
Thanks for that Andy. That's something I didn't know about the J-Stik. I had to go back to your site to check it out, and only found a pic showing the nylon washers and this sentence: "All of our joysticks are supplied to our specs for 4-8 way switching without any dismantling." An understated feature of your sticks. Never caught a hint about the springs under the screw heads, but maybe I'm still overlooking it on your site.
Well on our J-Stik which has been around for many years we use nylon washers, springs between the screw heads and washers to apply pressure and a low-strength threadlock which allows adjustment. Would guess similar here.
That also puts a whole new meaning to following:I have no desire to copy a competitors existing product, when doing so removes valuable and popular features from my own.
...no threadlock. Just good engineering.
...no threadlock. Just good engineering.
::)
Glue isn't the end-all-be all of engineering priciples, but feel free to use as much as you like on your own items. I don't mind ;).
You're right about that one. But if you're using lock nuts on studs as "positive restrictor tension adjustments", there is the potential for problems. Especially, like mentioned earlier, if someone wanted to loosen the tension on the restrictor plate. Either the nut or the stud will loosen, and it will be whichever one has less resistance on it. Since the lock nut is "locked" onto the stud, and the stud isn't "locked" into the hole, more than likely the stud will loosen before the nut, which kind of defeats the purpose of your design once the stud is loose. That's just good engineering...
What did you torque the studs to, Randy? Did you even use a torque wrench to measure the tightening force you put on the studs? And what's the torque on the lock nuts?
That's what I figured. You haven't even measured the forces you spoke of in your previous post, but yet you claim that it's a design feature...
The frictional coefficient of nylon and steel is miniscule (more than an order of magnitude smaller, in fact) compared to the frictional coefficient of metal against metal.
RandyT
True, but the actual metal to metal contact of the threads is much less than the surface contact of the nylon in the lock nut. This picture shows a cut away of a tightened fastener:
You ignoring what I consider valid questions makes me wonder about the quality of your products. And when you finally address those concerns, you throw around jargan, but have no evidence or data to back up your claims.
If one of the metals is malleable, and it is, then your photo, which shows materials which are not...
There is about 33% of contact (friction), per thread. That 33% equates to about 3.333x (more, actually, based on the true frictional coefficient of the materials) times the friction, per thread, over nylon. Now, count the number of threads seated in the nylon, and the number where metal is against metal. In the end, you wil still have several orders of magnitude more friction on the stud, than the nylon nut insert.
How can you discern that from a black and white magnified photo? You can't. You're making false claims yet again.
Also, the threads of the screws and holes of your sticks are machine threads, as are the ones in the photo. Thread pitch has nothing to do with thread contact, that's just how many threads are in a given distance. But thread pitch does determine the amount of force the fastener can withstand, a fastener with a higher thread pitch can handle more torque than one with fewer threads per inch. Threads (when the fastener is turned) create the force that holds the fasteners together. Enlighten me, what are these other forces? (you'll probably ignore that question as well)
Because there is no deformation.
Because there is no deformation.
Again, all metals are malleable... and there is obvious deformation of the threads in the pic...
There is about 33% of contact (friction), per thread. That 33% equates to about 3.333x (more, actually, based on the true frictional coefficient of the materials) times the friction, per thread, over nylon. Now, count the number of threads seated in the nylon, and the number where metal is against metal. In the end, you wil still have several orders of magnitude more friction on the stud, than the nylon nut insert.
Where did you come up with the 33%? Even on the surface of the thread that makes contact with its mating thread, only a fraction of the surface makes actual contact, due to the threads not being perfectly smooth.
I won't divulge the details that make the build of this stick better than previous attempts by others. History has shown that our competitors will do that soon enough.
And yet this question still goes unanswered, which brings into question the validity of your claims.
I won't divulge the details that make the build of this stick better than previous attempts by others. History has shown that our competitors will do that soon enough.
Since you refuse to explain what sets this stick apart from "the competition's", you leave me no choice but to assume: You're selling a J-Stik with a $5.95 3/4" long plastic handle.
Nephasth, this is poor form my man. :-[
I'm starting to think you own stock in the Loctite corporation. Glue isn't the end-all-be all of engineering priciples, but feel free to use as much as you like on your own items. I don't mind ;).
The frictional coefficient of nylon and steel is miniscule (more than an order of magnitude smaller, in fact) compared to the frictional coefficient of metal against metal.
RandyT
True, but the actual metal to metal contact of the threads is much less than the surface contact of the nylon in the lock nut. This picture shows a cut away of a tightened fastener:
(http://vronay.com/admincms/lib/fckeditor/uploads/image/figure%205.jpg)
The nylon in a lock nut will fill the void completely, which creates more surface friction than just bare metal threads. The same goes for thread locker, it is not a glue. It is sticky, but it is actually an anaerobic compound (meaning it hardens in the absence of air). It basically just fills those gaps between the threads with a plastic like material, creating more surface friction, which requires more force to turn the fastener. I've been dealing with nuts and bolts for years, and have first hand experience with nylon lock nuts causing studs to back out of their holes, hence my "concern". You ignoring what I consider valid questions makes me wonder about the quality of your products. And when you finally address those concerns, you throw around jargan, but have no evidence or data to back up your claims.
Will this fit easily into my X-Arcade as a replacement stick?
Or will I need to make it fit by drilling/hacking?
Will this fit easily into my X-Arcade as a replacement stick?
Or will I need to make it fit by drilling/hacking?
These should fit right in, without hacking. The only concern might be available depth. You will need 2.25" clearance below the bottom surface of the upper panel.
1) Is the shaft, the same length as the Sanwa JLW shaft, it looks like it is.
2) With the softjoy switches, does it definitely work well for 4-way. The reason I ask is because I'm currently using a JLW with the switches that a Happ super would use. I keep this joystick in 4 way mode but the diagonals are easy enough to hit (I can actually play Robotron, using it).
Will this fit easily into my X-Arcade as a replacement stick?
Or will I need to make it fit by drilling/hacking?
These should fit right in, without hacking. The only concern might be available depth. You will need 2.25" clearance below the bottom surface of the upper panel.
Great! Thanks.
Just wondering if you have a diagram of the OMNI2 showing the measurements?
I'm particularly interested in the the measurements of the mounting plate.
What happens if you are in 4-way and it's trying to turn to 8-way and your 6-wayyear old has the stick pointed straight up and it can't turn?
I doubt whether your 6 year old would be strong enough to stop it switching.
where do you go to buy a little motor for something like that? Is there anything plug and play out there that would work? This is just curiosity, I really have no intentions of trying it but it would be a cool thing to check out.
I think you are right, the leverage on the stick vs force from a motor locked onto that restrictor should be like night and day.
Just wondering if you have a diagram of the OMNI2 showing the measurements?
I'm particularly interested in the the measurements of the mounting plate.
I don't have a plate drawing at the moment, as they are pretty much the same as other sticks out there. They are bolt-up compatible with HAPP style sticks, as well as the smaller Japanese models using the angled holes.
The outside dimensions of the plate are 78mmx95mm (3.07"x3.74"). You'll need about 2 1/4" of clearance below the underside of the mounting plate.
RandyT
Hmmm, depending on the force needed to rotate the stick, I bet a rc plane servo + limit switch would work fantastic on those. You can get them to run at 5 volts too.
Sorry to resurrect an ancient thread, but it seemed the best place to ask this:
My current joystick mounting bolt pattern is 4 holes in a 66mm x 77mm rectangle. Will some of the holes on the OMNI2 match this bolt pattern?