Same with the trackball, there are only like 6 good trackball games: Golden Tee, Crystal Castles, Marble Madness, Missile Command, Centipede and some sort of bowling everybody talks about. Do you really like these games enough to where you will play them often? For me the answer was no. I got a trackball, fired up MAME, discovered that I couldn't really play any of these games for more than 5 minutes, so the trackball was axed.Donkbaca - did you ever try shuffleshot? We played that one a bit. It was a lot of fun, but for the most part your right. These are high dollar controls and take some time to install and configure.
Are you really going to have 4 people playing the cab enough to justify a 4p setup? Once again, there are only a handful of games that are fun with 4p; the D&D games, Turtles, Captain Commando, Simpsons and Sunset Riders, and X-men are the only ones I can think of off hand.Agreed and to add on, one of the downsides of Mame is unlimited quarters. This had a big impact on how I played these games. There are 2 player versions of these games that allow you to select your player. Nearly all of them had a 2 player option.
If its got a tron stick, its a franken panel.(http://www.zzzaccaria.com/photos_www/2005/tron_ebay_2/tron_automat_controlpanel_gross.jpg)
Once again, there are only a handful of games that are fun with 4p; the D&D games, Turtles, Captain Commando, Simpsons and Sunset Riders, and X-men are the only ones I can think of off hand. I didn't build a 4p CP because I don't think I will ever have 4 people over that want to play the same 4p game. Unless you have a couple of kids that you want to game with, I think 4p CPs are a waste. They are huge, ugly and add to costs.
You could make it expandable. :)
If you could align player 3 and 4, you could play smash TV and Total Carnage. If you made player 3 and 4 top fire joysticks, you could play some of the tank games out there.
If you could align player 3 and 4, you could play smash TV and Total Carnage. If you made player 3 and 4 top fire joysticks, you could play some of the tank games out there.
Woa... I didn't know that for games like Smash TV you needed 1-2 adjacent and 3-4 adjacent to each other. Would you then have to play Robotron off to the side (using 1+2)? I thought this could all be mapped in MAMEUI or something per game. It seems that all the researching doesn't end with completing the building of the cab. 8)
Thanks alfonzotan. I do want to include everything, but maybe having a second CP for the extras (TB, tron stick, spinner) is not a bad idea, except for the extra woodworking. I still have more stuff to figure out like speaker arrangement, monitor-selection, etc before I get to the CP.
EDIT: I've even considered using minimalistic art for the CP to avoid the adding to the frankenness. :)
edit: If its got a Tron stick, and any other joystick, its a franken panel.
Malenko is in a bust the Donks balls kind of mood today...
Just make sure you wrap your 4 player panel in black marble contact paper
edit: If its got a Tron stick, and any other joystick, its a franken panel.
Malenko is in a bust the Donks balls kind of mood today...
Just razzin ya, Mr. Contra and Tetris arent classics =)
Just make sure you wrap your 4 player panel in black marble contact paper
If its got a tron stick, its a franken panel.
No need for 8 buttons, unless you are trying to play console games, which you shouldn't do with arcade controls.
There are no other admin buttons you should have.
I would have separate coin and 1p buttons, I hate shift controls.
My thoughts on trying to minimize franken panel-ness:
Ignore the desire to play everything, and focus on having the ability to play what you want to play. That being said, are you really a big enough Tron geek to pay 200 or so bucks to get the controls and have a weird looking CP just to play Tron. If the answer is yes, then do it, if the answer is, well , I enjoy Tron occassionally, and would like to play it once in a while, then the answer is no.
Same with the trackball, there are only like 6 good trackball games: Golden Tee, Crystal Castles, Marble Madness, Missile Command, Centipede and some sort of bowling everybody talks about. Do you really like these games enough to where you will play them often? For me the answer was no. I got a trackball, fired up MAME, discovered that I couldn't really play any of these games for more than 5 minutes, so the trackball was axed.
Are you really going to have 4 people playing the cab enough to justify a 4p setup? Once again, there are only a handful of games that are fun with 4p; the D&D games, Turtles, Captain Commando, Simpsons and Sunset Riders, and X-men are the only ones I can think of off hand. I didn't build a 4p CP because I don't think I will ever have 4 people over that want to play the same 4p game. Unless you have a couple of kids that you want to game with, I think 4p CPs are a waste. They are huge, ugly and add to costs.
I am not shooting you down, hey if you LOVE Tron, go for the stick. If you love marble madness, get a trackball, if you have 4 buddies who love Turtles, build a 4 player CP. As a rule, if its on your CP, it should get regular use, if it doesn't, axe it.
1. player 3 and 4 will only have 4 buttonsGood, cause I dont think there are many 4player games with more then 4buttons.
2. I'm thinking players 1 and 2 should only have 6 slightly offset pushbuttons,I dont think this is a good option, IMOP. Ive tried alternate button layouts such as
3. Thinking of not adding any extra buttons for the trackball.
4. Last but not least, I could minimize admin buttons to Esc, pause, 1-4
player start with a shift button that would allow these 4 to become the coin buttons
too. etc..
Any other suggestions/thoughts?
Of course, you will pay a lot extra for that stick, but you can get rid of the Tron..err, Frankenstick
If your stick is only a black handle version, you might be able to paint it with like colors and or pinstripe it to match the artwork.
Do what is right for you. Doing otherwise is like buying your friend's favorite beer, instead of yours, because you know he'll bum one when he comes over. It might be a nice thing to do, but it means that you get to drink nasty beer whether he's there or not :).
The guy Specifically says he Loves Tron. Yet you try to talk him out of liking Tron, because YOU dont like the look of a Tron stick on HIS panel. Is that not Insanity?
If it isnt, then I dont know what is.
ONLY a black handle version!?! No love for GORF... :'(
Do what is right for you. Doing otherwise is like buying your friend's favorite beer, instead of yours, because you know he'll bum one when he comes over. It might be a nice thing to do, but it means that you get to drink nasty beer whether he's there or not :).
The only thing that might motivate a 4 player panel is Gauntlet (imho) or maybe a 3 player for Rampage :)
With that said I am also a bit allergic to frankenpanels... "multi" something is always a compromise giving a less good result with a machine/tool/game able to do several things, but not being good in any. Separate/dedicated solutions is of course often better from many perspectives. And not to forget ergonomic and the esthetic part. There are a few quality builds with multiple controllers, but honestly, most of them just looks silly or worse...
But in the end, beauty is in the eye of the beholder isn't it? :)
The best thing is of course to have dedicated cabinets for each type of game.
If you can't do that (it is more expensive and consumes a lot of space) why not try with changeable panels?
With this considered in the design phase it can be very convenient with quick connections for easy replacement etc. That isn't much more expensive, if you keep all the interfaces etc inside the cabinet. Just some more metal or wood.
There are so many things I would have done different today, if I will ever build a new MAME cabinet. Probably I would make two - one with horizontal and one with vertical monitor. And then build a couple different control panels that could be swapped between the two cabinets.
ONLY a black handle version!?! No love for GORF... Cry
But if not, and you play other emulators, you can get a lot closer to the feel of a diamond pattern with your buttons when they are offset.
but when I do....I have to post.Thanks HanoiBoi.
it can be very convenient with quick connections for easy replacement etc.
one with horizontal and one with vertical monitor.Or you could make a rotating monitor... ? Or use a larger monitor that looks fine in either orientation ?
The decision is for you to make, just realize it's one or the otherSee what I mean? Its the typical black and white statement. Why cant there be shades in-between? In their world, its one or the other. There exist no middle-ground.
I also have thought about going modular
and the CP has lines running through it.
Theres almost no way to make artwork for them that works well.
They are much more a pain to build, and, expensive parts can be lost, broken more easily, and more easily stolen.
Everyone needs to get their balls busted once in a while. I like Malenko, the man knows his stuff (except for r-type and life force)
its just so funny that I agree with DoDonBaka so much but hes so hostile, its hilarious
Modulars often look worse than many other options. Theres parts lying all over the place, and the CP has lines running through it. Theres almost no way to make artwork for them that works well. Changing the panels around is even more of a pain in the butt than an entire separate control panel. They are much more a pain to build, and, expensive parts can be lost, broken more easily, and more easily stolen.
and more easily stolenWTF?
While I like that your opinion is not a forceful one, such as been seen by the beat-down crew here.. I have to disagree a bit with this point. While gamepads on consoles have a staggered arrangement, its mainly because the thumb can more easily slide from one to the other, as well as hold nearly any two buttons down with the single thumb.
that's a franken sweater
That is one sweet ass sweater!What's messed up, is if that guy is a quadriplegic (which that sort of interface is designed for) then somebody put that ugly ass sweater on him. So cruel.
That is one sweet ass sweater!What's messed up, is if that guy is a paraplegic (which that sort of interface is designed for) then somebody put that ugly ass sweater on him. So cruel.
Come on, it was a gift from Bill Cosby. :lol
If you don't want a frankenpanel, don't build a frankenpanel. leave out some stuff. if you can't leave anything out, you may very well just have to build a frankenpanel.
The only thing worse than a FrankenPanel is a panel that doesn't play the games that you love.
My solution to playing Tron with a real Tron joystick though was to buy a Tron :)
I think that if you have a main panel that handles the vast majority of your needs you can be pretty good with that. Then any specific controls you want such as tron, rotary joystick, etc you can just build a 2nd panel and swap the whole thing.
I think that if you have a main panel that handles the vast majority of your needs you can be pretty good with that. Then any specific controls you want such as tron, rotary joystick, etc you can just build a 2nd panel and swap the whole thing.
See what I mean? Tasteful is the key.
What do you mean? He limited himself to 3 trackballs.Indeed. My mistake.
Just cause it has a tron stick doesn't mean it's a frankenpanel!!! :angry: :angry: :angry:
If you can do it tastefully, it's not a frankenpanel. Check out this panel:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=65141.0;attach=71319;image)
See what I mean? Tasteful is the key.
I don't get the 4 spinners...
So when can we expect the exclusive Tru-Groovy Custom Cowbell Replica? I want mine with RGB leds!
Seriously admin buttons is like putting a sign on a machine that says "I would rather have my machine look like a train wreck than bend down and pull a keyboard out of the coin door."
Seriously admin buttons is like putting a sign on a machine that says "I would rather have my machine look like a train wreck than bend down and pull a keyboard out of the coin door."
Some people consider quarter/pause admin buttons. You use a coin-up button?
Seriously admin buttons is like putting a sign on a machine that says "I would rather have my machine look like a train wreck than bend down and pull a keyboard out of the coin door."
Some people consider quarter/pause admin buttons. You use a coin-up button?
Btw admin buttons I mean ANY buttons other than those you would find on a real life arcade machine.
So no, I don't have coin up buttons, I have a coin door (rigged to coin-up when the coin return is pressed). What's a pause button for? In the arcades you couldn't pause games and therefore no pausing will be allowed on my panel ;)
I don't even have an exit button.... old school "press start 1 and start 2" for me. There are shift modifiers on keyboard encoders for those rare instances in which you need to press something odd like pause.
Just cause it has a tron stick doesn't mean it's a frankenpanel!!! :angry: :angry: :angry:
If you can do it tastefully, it's not a frankenpanel. Check out this panel:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=65141.0;attach=71319;image)
See what I mean? Tasteful is the key.
Honestly, I don't believe he was serious about that panel. That thing is too ridiculous to exist.This thread is crying for a crapmame link so here it is:
show me a picture of it built and I will believe it.
"Also, if you look close, you'll see that the sideline controllers are not angled to the screen like usual 3rd & 4th player."
If you angled them, the player will get confused, and when they press up into the screen... will end up going diagonal.
I build arcade cabinets to be enjoyed by me and any of my guests so I build them simple and easy to understand. As a result, I have multiple cabinets which play different game styles.
You usually chime in about how it doesn't matter what the guests think and if they can't work a arcade control panel they must be some kind of morons.
Just cause it has a tron stick doesn't mean it's a frankenpanel!!! :angry: :angry: :angry:
If you can do it tastefully, it's not a frankenpanel. Check out this panel:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=65141.0;attach=71319;image)
See what I mean? Tasteful is the key.
Will this control panel could hold all the controls you want, probably but moving it will be a b!+@#. With the control panel attached, the cabinet can only go through very wide hallways and french doors, regular doors are out. If you drive down the highway with the cab upright, you better have it strapped down or it will fly out of the truckbed. The control panel will act like a giant wing. I don't even want to guess at what would happen if a crosswind hit the cabinet going down the road.
On my Mame cabinet I only have 3 admin buttons. One to enter/exit games, one to pause the game and one to reset the game (never used it). Coins/tokens are handle by the coin door.
Your entitled to your opinions, but dont think your way is the best way nor the only way.
Little kids are going to have to jump or use a step ladder to reach the admin buttons. :o
You can angle joysticks as long as you angle the control panel as well. Much better than ending up staring at the back wall when playing.
Xiaou2 is correct.
QuoteYou can angle joysticks as long as you angle the control panel as well. Much better than ending up staring at the back wall when playing.
You could, but you will still have players hitting the wrong direction, because even with your body facing the same direction as the sticks... 'up' will always be parallel to the monitor as far as a player is concerned. Especially since theres no time to think about it.
The proof is pretty much solidified in the Arcades. Out of all the games ever made, I dont think there is more than one that has angled sticks. (is there even one?)
(not counting game intentionally angled diagonally, like Qbert. Im talking 4 player style)
Some Idiot angled a Pedestal Tekken III machine with angled sticks and it totally messed me over, as well as many others. Sure it matched the angles of the panel... but you dont Look at the panel when you play. You look at the screen.
And theres no way to tell by feel which way is UP either. Even if you made a braille type of carved CP system, it probably would still see mistakes / failures.
I won't say wife because I'll go out on a limb and state that no wives like smash TV
Or am I mistaken in what this conversation is about?
Or am I mistaken in what this conversation is about?
I think you might be. Folks are talking about angle in reference to the twisting of the joystick base about the center axis of the shaft. Gauntlet Legends is a good example of how, even though the buttons are angled to the player, the stick is not.
+1 for keeping left and right parallel to the screen face.
dignity is overrated, always being right is better, if you are wrong, quietly change the subject
dignity is overrated, always being right is better, if you are wrong, quietly change the subject
or put up huge walls of text and go off on wild tangents about how trampolines are like hotdogs.
If you ever played any console game in your life, chances are you played them when not directly facing the screen.
QuoteIf you ever played any console game in your life, chances are you played them when not directly facing the screen.
When you play a console game, you generally are using gamepads. With a gamepad, you can feel which direction is which, because of the Dpad grooves / surfaces.
The majority of people will orient to the monitor and not the CP angle. Which is exactly why the Arcades orient to the monitor, and not the CP.
To reduce the space required, they angled the buttons, so that your body has to angle to a narrower stance, and thus your elbows are not intruding on the other players space.
See the original Gauntlet for example. As well as pretty much any 3 to 4 player CP that existed in the Arcades.
I guess I may have played more console gaming from ages earlier than you have, but I am used to joysticks just as much as controllers. Atari, commodore, nes advantage. made no difference in orientation to screen when using the joysticks, even when I used the arcade bat style joysticks.
I agree that is true with a traditional arcade machine, but with home machines and pedestal machine expanding, I think players can disassociate themselves with the monitor more and connect to the controls more. That's my experience at least. I dunno!
I agree you can't angles the controls on a Gauntlet. My only point is that for home machines, angled joysticks can work as long as certain conditions are right. Conditions that were not found ever effective on commercial machines, so they were not used. Conditions like space for each player, a degree of separation from the screen, and a clear angled set of controls that the player knows can acknowledge the angle they are playing at.
(http://images.wikia.com/simpsons/images/e/ea/The_Simpsons_Arcade.png)
(http://www.amusementtrader.com/user_images/6513633.jpg)
(http://www.bossyman15.com/gallery/santa-cruz-boardwalk-arcade/funcenter/dungeons-dragons.jpg)
:Sigh
Are you trying to be grating, Cheffo?
I think it is fair to say that this by now has turned into a Frankenthread.
:Sigh
Are you trying to be grating, Cheffo?
I think I was ... it was a little over the top, which is why I killed the post.
If you're referring to Vigo, I don't think he was actually calling anybody arrogant, so much as defending someone calling him that.. :\
Thanks for posting those, because after this ridiculous "angled joysticks are acceptable" argument I was about to.
You can't angle your joysticks.... period. This is one of the few taboos you should never break. It's right up there with making a "left handed fighter panel" with the buttons on the left and the joystick on the right.
I mean it's your machine so you can do anything you want, but if you actually want other people to be able to play games on it then there are a few rules you have to stick to.
I also take offense to people calling those giving the correct advice arrogant. We aren't arrogant, we have been doing this longer, we've built more cabinets then you have, many of us have prior experience in the arcade industry. In short, we know what we are doing while people newer to the hobby don't. If we tell you not to do something it is probably because at one point we, or somebody we know tried what you are suggesting and it turned out horribly.
Learn from our mistakes.... we are here to help, not post judgment. (Even though sometimes the two blend together).
And Vigo, with his steering wheels and pedals at 45 degree angles.. is driving a custom built "accident waiting to happen" car ;) (sorry, couldnt resist Vigo)
Make a list of whats most important to you beforehand, and go from there.
QuoteMake a list of whats most important to you beforehand, and go from there.
You need every know and then X2 says something that makes sense
The debate is like the choice of Car you want to drive.Where do you buy your cars from? Subaru Imprezza starts at $25k and its 4 door. If you get a WRX and or STi AWD edition its a turbo charged horizontally opposed flat 4. Has AC, gadgets, and an adjustable suspension.
A sports car has pretty lines, a powerful engine, superior performance components, superior handling at high speeds...
But if has negatives:
No storage space, only 2 seats, fuel costs, very expensive to purchase & own, no AC, limited gadgetry, horrible ride for long trips (stiff suspension).
From the pictures here, we can see that D&D doesnt look very nice. However, if you like that game, you dont really care. Its got 4 players w/ 4 buttons, in a relatively small space to fit 4 people. Its the minivan of control panels.Again with the "we", YOU say it doesn't look very nice. I think its a FINE (Sunset Riders? Single speaker panel means its not a Simpsons cab) conversion.
And Vigo, with his steering wheels and pedals at 45 degree angles.. is driving a custom built "accident waiting to happen" car ;) (sorry, couldnt resist Vigo)I kno rite? Its not like any carcade games (see what I did there?) that came out did that.......
meh.... People get mad at me to. I flip between knowledgeable, funny and obnoxious
I think you build what you want, but if what you want is this:
http://wickedretarded.com/~crapmame/3.html (http://wickedretarded.com/~crapmame/3.html)
I have every right to make fun of you
Where do you buy your cars from? Subaru Imprezza starts at $25k and its 4 door. If you get a WRX and or STi AWD edition its a turbo charged horizontally opposed flat 4. Has AC, gadgets, and an adjustable suspension.
I kno rite? Its not like any carcade games (see what I did there?) that came out did that.......
http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=7551 (http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=7551)
Quit dooshing up threads! :angry: :angry: :angry:
Bunch of garbage snipped.
My new panel. Frankenpanel? Yea or Nay? I did my best to not make it look frankenpanel but space was very limited. I spaced the art so it wasnt cluttered up but kept the original feel.
My new panel. Frankenpanel? Yea or Nay? I did my best to not make it look frankenpanel but space was very limited. I spaced the art so it wasnt cluttered up but kept the original feel.
If you can explain the 8 buttons per player, it may help your case against it being a frankenpanel..
Hey NipRing, what's going on with the rectangular area at the top of your panel? Next to the 100 Yen sticker? What's that do?Thats where a move strip would go.
My new panel. Frankenpanel? Yea or Nay? I did my best to not make it look frankenpanel but space was very limited. I spaced the art so it wasnt cluttered up but kept the original feel.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/nip-ring/IMG_0447.jpg)
People keep getting hung up on having to swap panels, but it is a non issue. If you don't feel like swapping panels...don't! Play the games that work with the setup you have.
Thats like saying.. Well, theres leftover meatloaf ready Now... eat that instead of cooking up the steak you REALLY want. And after that, for dessert, eat the jello instead of the Chocolate creme pie you Really want. (that also isnt ready Yet)
Just let it go.
You put your opinions out, then drop it. They are well noted by those who actually care.
Stating the same Opinions over and over again, doesnt change anything. Nor does the number of like minded people change anything. Its all personal, and individual, OPINION.
And thats all it will ever be. It will never be absolute truth, fact, Right or Wrong.
Enjoy it your way.
And let others Enjoy it Their way.
Hey telengard, long time no see! Definitely worth the effort. I know we have talked about this quite a bit over the years, but I still couldn't imaging not having the modular panel.
People keep getting hung up on having to swap panels, but it is a non issue. If you don't feel like swapping panels...don't! Play the games that work with the setup you have. I still have my Robotron setup mounted, and I played a quick game of Galaga the other day by mapping fire to the right stick/left. If I really wanted to play a full game of Galaga, I would have changed it. :)
It is just nice to have the option to change them out to anything you want.
I really need to get busy designing the new cab to go with the LCD TV. I can't wait to get it all up and running again. Playing Robotron is hard when the CP is not bolted down. lol
Rcub3 should totally do this:
arcade machine gameex home made cab emulators roms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3wQ_y_WHMc#)
Of course my cab has no admin buttons (all shift functions utilizing an i-pac) because frankenpanels are really fugly. :puke
I am just glad someone finally had the sense to put 9 buttons per player for all four players! I am sick of not being able to play 9 button - four player games.
I am just glad someone finally had the sense to put 9 buttons per player for all four players! I am sick of not being able to play 9 button - four player games.
If you dont like it, dont look at it.If you like it, then you shoulda put a ring on it.
If you dont like it, dont look at it.
Yeah, like that works around here. ;DIf you dont like it, dont look at it.
If you don't like the post, don't respond to it.
;)
Yeah, like that works around here. ;DIf you dont like it, dont look at it.
If you don't like the post, don't respond to it.
;)
arcade machine gameex home made cab emulators roms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3wQ_y_WHMc#)
I would hope those steering wheels are removable. Could you imagine how uncomfortable those must be when playing non-racing games?
Constructive Criticism -vs- Destructive Trolling
One way benefits the hobby, strengthens the community, and makes people feel good.