MVS-99-6 - Project on hold until further notice (2014-03-10)

[emphatic]

Looking good. I know you must be happy now.

[Yvan256]

Looking good. I know you must be happy now.

Not having all-white buttons was one of the things that bugged me. But now it's back to the 7-segment display and PIC for the credit counter, which means a lack of updates and pretty photos for the next few days.

And after that... back to that LCD6610 for the mini-marquee display. I still haven't been able to really make that thing work. 

The good news is, the sides are ready and fixed with the bottom, as you can see in the last picture the control panel is also almost finished (need to route the edge to make it round), the marquee/header is also ready to be fixed and its back plexi sheet is cut to make room for the LCD, so the next photos will be more than a few buttons on a desk... 

[vrf]

looks great! I love how you're passionate about making it look as authentic as possible.

[Yvan256]

looks great! I love how you're passionate about making it look as authentic as possible.

The way I see it, it's my own custom design since it's a micro-bartop and SNK never did something like this, but it's also a restoration/copy project in the sense that I need to follow some guidelines from the full-sized SNK cabs. Otherwise it just won't "look right".

To be honest I should have used white 24mm buttons since the real cabs have the same size of buttons for the control and the gameplay, but there was just not enough room horizontally.

I would have needed to reduce the size of the text labels, the 7-segment display would also have needed to be bigger because of the size ratio relative to the buttons size, etc. There was no way around using those white SDM-20 IMHO. I'll probably post some drawings later to better explain the whole problem...

[Yvan256]

Here's what I'm talking about. I kept the same size for the font and the 7-segment dual-digit display, the only thing that changes is the white buttons.



Real Neo-Geo MVS control panel. (photo credit: driph.com)




My control panel with white Sanwa SDM-20. I'll need to increase the black area around the 7-segment display but otherwise it looks close enough.




My control panel with white Sanwa OBSF-24.


As you can see the one with the SDM-20 looks right, with spacing between each button + label. The credit display also looks right when compared to a real MVS cab.

The one with the OBSF-24 looks cramped, has no breathing space between elements, and I would need a bigger 7-segment display but that would mean even less horizontal space making things even worst.

[Yvan256]

Okay... small update yet again. As I said, the sides are up, so here's a side-by-side shot of what I like to call...



MDF vs Cardboard... 3... 2... 1... FIGHT! 

Why is the marquee on top of a metal ruler? Because I haven't installed it yet!
Why does the MDF cab seem a bit taller? Because the cardboard cab doesn't have rubber feet underneath.




A shot of the profile minus the silly floating marquee.




A shot of the silly floating marquee itself. Low-resolution image printed on photo paper, red is a bit too dark, etc. 




Close-up of the controls, with photo paper overlay. Red seems spot-on for some reason. I still need to route that edge to make it round.




Back plexi with a rectangle-ish hole in it. Doesn't matter if the cut is ugly because the printed marquee will hide it.




Why an ugly rectangle-ish hole in the back plexi? Well, for the 1.5", 128x128 pixels LCD for the mini-marquee of course!




And here's a view from the front without the printed marquee. The printed white rectangle is the wrong size, it would look silly. But that's not a problem that was only a test anyway.

Total cost for the test photo-paper-printed marquee and control panel overlay: about 5$CAD. Who knows, since I'm putting plexi over the CP overlay, I might go 100% photo paper for the final prints too.

[emphatic]

 

Awesome. It's really cute.

[vrf]

yee gads that's hot. This is turning into an awesome little cab.

Thanks for the note about the buttons. Let me think about it a bit. I really need to finish project A before looking ahead to B. (Though I am very tempted...)

[Ryglore]

Awesome!! I really dig the CP for sure. That 7 Seg is going to so bad ass once it's all said and done.

[Gatsu]

That is an awesome mini-cab man.

I'm gonna have to build one of these eventually to take on trips.

[Yvan256]

First 7-segment animation pattern... the idea seemed good "on paper" but now that I see it, I'm not so sure. Then again it would not loop endlessly, probably only three or four times before going into display credits mode (" 0"), which is missing here.




Another idea I had, making the middle segment "fall" to the bottom. It's just... plain annoying. 




Anyone has a real Neo-Geo MVS cabinet? Is there an animation in the 7-segment displays when you power up the cabinet?

[Benevolance]

I think the first animation would be very cool, as long as it didn't cycle continuously.

[Yvan256]

Another small update. Three steps forward, one step backward...



First, I rounded up the front edge of the control panel. This was long overdue. Let's just say I was extremely nervous when I did that, this was the third (fourth?) control panel that I have made and I sure didn't want to re-do it again because of a screw-up with the routing table. But everything went fine, as you can see. But now I see another problem: I'll need to cut the front edge of the side panels a bit, it's way more than 0.25" at the front. Oh well, let's just add that to the "to do" list.




I also worked on the two back panels. They're not installed yet, but the picture above shows where they will be when viewing the inside of the cab. Just imagine there's brackets screwed to hold the bottom angled panel, the vertical panel is held in place with a piano hinge.




That back panel is where the mini-ITX motherboard will be located. Pictured here is an Intel D201GLY board, however it only has a VGA output and my LCD requires a composite video signal. Either I'll use a different motherboard or I'll use a VGA-to-composite converter. Given the choice, I'd rather not use yet another board which requires yet another power supply...




Here you see how I attached the bottom marquee panel to the speakers panel. Of course I could have simply glued the whole thing to the inside of the walls of the cab, but I don't want to glue anything until all panels are cut and tested for fit. The speakers grills can be seen here, the speakers will go on top. I traced the contour of the speakers to be sure the brackets wouldn't be in the way.

Funny thing is, I put the two small speakers somewhere so I wouldn't damage them before it was time to install them, but now I can't remember where I put them...  




And here is the step backward. I had already glued the whole marquee "box", however the height was too close to the edges of the marquee area of the side panels. A bit hard to explain in words... I want to have 0.25" all around the edges so that the T-molding won't be flush with the horizontal panels. So I had to cut about 0.125" in the height of the marquee box. The height is now fine, and I did make sure the mini-marquee LCD display would still fit.  

It does changes the aspect ratio of the marquee, but since it's a custom design based on the original Neo-Geo single-game cabinet, most of the marquee is red, so all I need to do is play around with the size and location of the text until it looks right. No aspect ratio or cropping to take care about. As a bonus, the mini-marquee LCD will now appear to be bigger, relative to the marquee.


Next step will probably be to install that marquee box, then the back panel, then the top panel with air vents (and fan? not sure yet), add control panel support blocks on the sides... Etc, etc.

When building such a small cabinet, 0.25" makes all the difference in the world. So I'd rather build slowly but surely. Rushing things isn't a good idea when your tools are bigger than your cab.  

[Ryglore]

Excellent work Yvan, btw. I think I Maybe if you slowed the 1st of the two new animations a little, maybe it would be better. Or maybe have them both spin in the same direction rather than opposing?

[Bender]

I too like the first animation, though I think both are good if they only cycle through a few times

Great work!

[Ryglore]

Oooor... what about morse coding MVS 99 6 onto the 7 segment?

M - -
V . . . -
S . . .
9 - - - - .
9 - - - - .
6 . . . . -

Of course ,

. = short blink and - = long blink and no one would know what it was actually doing. But it would be a nice trivia piece. 

[emphatic]

Perhaps the animation could be running "through" the two displays, treating them as one. Running like a frame sorta.

[Yvan256]

Not much of an update, but a small update is better than nothing I guess.


I found my speakers! So I celebrated the occasion by installing them! For those who are wondering, they're 55 mm in diameter, 8 ohms, 1 watt. That means TWO whole watts of stereo sound power! Yeah! I probably won't even need an external amplifier, the on-board audio will probably be powerful enough.




I do need to fill some holes and repaint the whole thing, but we can already see the speakers through the slots



Okay, so we can't see them, they're the black in the black slots. But that was the goal, after all!  

Next step is probably going to be cutting the two marquee plexi to the new height. I'll also probably trim the front edges of the marquee retainer, to gain back some height for the marquee so that it doesn't look too horizontal.

[Ryglore]

Sweet, those speaker holes look great! Any progress with the 7-seg?

[Yvan256]

Ryglore: nope, I haven't touched the 7-segment display since the last time.


Yet another small update for today: I installed my Ultimarc Mini-PAC (link to PDF manual, since this product is discontinued).




I recycled old mounting hardware I had laying around, including isolating pads (the thin brownish discs) on each side for each of the four risers and screws.




As you can see it's getting pretty cramped in there, and it's still missing the 7-segment display board and the wiring.  The mini-PAC is positioned so that the "PC" cable will pass between the yellow and green buttons.

Getting the plexi screws to line up in spaces between all these things will probably be a huge challenge... if it's at all possible. 

[Ryglore]

Oh wow. Seeing the insides of the CP totally shows just how tiny this thing is going to be. 

[Sledgehammer]

When was the Mini-Pac cancelled? I have installed two and my most recent was purchased only about two months ago.

What would be Ultimarcs replacement if it is in fact cancelled? Just a regular Ipac?

Jason

[Yvan256]

When was the Mini-Pac cancelled? I have installed two and my most recent was purchased only about two months ago.

What would be Ultimarcs replacement if it is in fact cancelled? Just a regular Ipac?

Jason

Well the mini-PAC still exists, but if you check the current product vs the one I have, they're not the same physical size, connectors, etc. The new one is USB while mine is PS/2.

I did write them, asking where I could get the manual because the version of the product I have is different, they told me the new USB version replaces the old PS/2 version. But if I recall correctly, both versions are dual PS/2 + USB, but each require an adapter/cable to use the other connector type. Given my limited space, I'm not sure I could fit the new model of mini-PAC into MVS-99-6.

[Chicken McNobody]

I have both Minipacs, i have the old one like you have in my DK cab, and the new one I got when I ordered for my Classics cab.  The new one is only USB, using a standard mini to regular USB cord.  It only has the one plug, so you would use a separate keyboard rather than tethering it like the older version.  The board itself is the same size 2 1/4" X 1 1/2" but it feels smaller because it only has the one micro plug on the end rather that the, significantly larger by scale, double PS/2 ports.  I think it would possibly give you a little more room, especially where the buttons are, since you wouldn't have the port directly against it.



Also if you need the wiring diagram for the OG version, here it is.

[emphatic]

Getting the plexi screws to line up in spaces between all these things will probably be a huge challenge... if it's at all possible. 

Do you really need them, or are they just to make it look more like the real deal? You could just glue some faux bolts (cut off bolt heads) to your plexi glass if that's the case, right?

Very nice layout on this panel IMHO. I'm a big fan of cramming stuff into small spaces myself. 

[Yvan256]

Getting the plexi screws to line up in spaces between all these things will probably be a huge challenge... if it's at all possible. 

Do you really need them, or are they just to make it look more like the real deal? You could just glue some faux bolts (cut off bolt heads) to your plexi glass if that's the case, right?

Very nice layout on this panel IMHO. I'm a big fan of cramming stuff into small spaces myself. 

Yes, the bolts are really needed since all the buttons are snap buttons meant to be installed in metal panels. So I'm going to install the buttons into the CP plexi (since it's a smaller cab I'll probably use thinner plexi so that it doesn't look too thick in relation to the whole thing) and then bolt the plexi to the CP wood.

Thanks, I also like the layout of this 4th remake of the CP too. 

And cramming stuff into small spaces is what this project is all about. 

[Bender]

you could countersink holes a little wider and as deep as the nuts into the MDF then cut the bolts down, and not have them get in the way at all

[Yvan256]

you could countersink holes a little wider and as deep as the nuts into the MDF then cut the bolts down, and not have them get in the way at all

Those are snap-in buttons, there's no nut. Also, it's 3/8" MDF so I really don't want to countersink anything as it's already thin enough IMHO.

It will work, the only problem is going to be the physical location of the small bolts. I want to have them in the same places they would be on a real Neo-Geo CP (four corners and middle), but the hardware underneath might prevent me from doing that. I forgot that part when I made the design and I don't feel like checking that just yet... too depressing.  

Edit: oh, you were talking about the bolts... I feel stupid now. Yeah that would have been another solution, I'll keep that in mind!

[emphatic]

Could you not use some sort of retainer (like how marquees are held in place) over the front of the CP? And the bezel would be on top of the top part of it?



(Ignore the color and the shape of that thing, it's very rough sketch work at play here)

[Yvan256]

Could you not use some sort of retainer (like how marquees are held in place) over the front of the CP? And the bezel would be on top of the top part of it?

Well, since that's not how real Neo-Geo cabs are built, it's not really an option. There's things where I do deviate from the original design (the size being the first thing), but other than that I do try to keep it as stock-looking as possible.



The bolts won't be a problem, but their position is going to be. I just checked, and the top row and the middle bottom bolts are going to be okay. The problem comes from the bottom corner bolts. They would need to go through the metal brackets. That's not a problem in itself, except the position they would go through is partly where the bracket screws are.

But just talking about it made me think about the solution: cut the bolts length and use threaded inserts on the CP (or bolt directly into the MDF, like all the other bolts so far)!  




Another problem cropped up when I rounded the corner: I didn't plan for the CP artwork to go around the corner... And since the bolts are supposed to be in the artwork area, and that I sure don't plan on curving a piece of plexi (even as small as this), I'll have to fix the artwork a bit at the bottom. I'm afraid the "Neo-Geo MVS SNK" logo will have to be removed.  :'(

[Ryglore]

Could you just omit the center bolt? I think a missing bolt would be less noticeable than the logo not being there.

[Yvan256]

Could you just omit the center bolt? I think a missing bolt would be less noticeable than the logo not being there.

I would need to omit both the top and bottom middle bolts or otherwise it would look weird. The plexi isn't going to be that large (7-1/4" ~ 7-1/2"), I guess only four bolts in the corners will suffice. It's not like pushing the buttons will pull up the plexi after all.




After a bit of research, however, it seems that SNK only put bolts into the corners and two bolts at the bottom (none at the top), except for the curved buttons layout panel (fourth photo above) which also has a non-centered logo... whole thing looks like a mess IMHO. That way the small logo at the bottom can stay. And with threaded inserts, the hardware behind the CP doesn't matter. It's win-win, all I need to do is correct the artwork so it stops before the rounded front edge.

[Ryglore]

"After a bit of"

Of what? 

[Yvan256]

"After a bit of"

Of what? 

Hehe, I hit the Post button instead of Preview while I was still in the middle of editing my post.

[Ryglore]

Yup... hate that. Figured that's what was up.  

The whole thing is pretty sweet, too bad you have to modify the CP art though. This project has me almost wanting to make a bartop.

[Yvan256]

Yup... hate that. Figured that's what was up.  

The whole thing is pretty sweet, too bad you have to modify the CP art though. This project has me almost wanting to make a bartop.

Almost, eh? Here's an idea for you: mini-Shmup!   

[Ryglore]

Yup... hate that. Figured that's what was up.  

The whole thing is pretty sweet, too bad you have to modify the CP art though. This project has me almost wanting to make a bartop.

Almost, eh? Here's an idea for you: mini-Shmup!   

Actually... I was thinking that at work!

[jeffhlewis]

Haven't been back here in a while - but I gotta say this is incredible.

I wanted to use the credit counter LED's so bad on my Neo Geo Mini custom build (I had two originals laying around at one point), but that would have been massively over my head from an electronics wiring/programming standpoint. Hell I was already over my head building it in the first place!

Good luck with the rest of the project, can't wait to see the final.

[Yvan256]

I got tired of trying new startup animations... I tried to move "1990-2009" via half-digits, but the hole/missing horizontal segments in the middle made the whole thing worst than everything I tried so far. I also tried to make the animation use the two digits, but it seemed to "jump" in the middle because of that same hole/missing horizontal segments.

So, instead of wasting any more time on that, I finalized my "display the current number of credits" routine. So far it's a dumb counter but at least it does display the internal register value properly. I went the lazy way out for my BCD routine (think 100 opcodes look-up table).  

Next step will be to add a switch to make the credits add up instead of being internal on a timer. That switch will be the one from the token mech, of course.

Click on the image below to start the animation.

[jtslade]

Awesome, absolutely fantastic work. I have been trying to find a solution for MVS credit LED's for a year now.