So...wouldja buy a GM?

[LLUncoolJ]

I would have a hard time right now. I've always been a whore as far as car brand loyalty. I buy the best car that suits my needs/wants for the price. But it just doesn't sit with me that GM will have a competitive advantage over Ford...basically they will be rewarded for failure. It's not even an Obama thing for me. It's more of a right vs wrong issue. Which is strange, because I am pretty much devoid of morality.

BTW, not to exclude, but this is pretty much a question for Americans (North?). I'm sure the rest of the world probably wouldn't consider either as an option.

[ChadTower]

Didn't want one before, don't want one now, just based on the cars themselves.  The rest is irrelevant if you just don't want anything they make.

[LLUncoolJ]

Didn't want one before, don't want one now, just based on the cars themselves.  The rest is irrelevant if you just don't want anything they make.

Always took you for a Camaro man.

[Flake]

Always took you for a Camaro man.

 

Seriously though the new camaros look pretty cool

[ChadTower]

Always took you for a Camaro man.

I'm holding out for an El Camino.

[Dartful Dodger]

I’m very loyal to brands.  I’ve owned 3 Chevy Cavaliers a Chevette and a Camero, they were all indestructible.  I became a Dodge guy when a 67 Dodge Dart fell into my lap.

I've had nothing but issues with all the Mopars I've owned since, but I’ve remained loyal to Dodge for 7 years.

I don't like that GM needed a bail out and I'd be ok if it was allowed to fail the way we let AMC fail, but I'm not that upset that it's getting a boost from the government.   I've said this in another thread, GM cars are built for Americans to drive in America.  Unlike Ford it wasn't selling to other nations.  The problem as I see it, was Americans decided to sacrifice speed and dependability for cost and conservation.

I'm going to my Credit Union Monday to get a loan to buy my Buddy's SAABaru 9-2X.  It's used so GM won't be getting more money from the purchase, but I'll officially be a GM guy again.

...that is until the Sweeds buy back SAAB.  

[Ginsu Victim]

I don't like that GM needed a bail out and I'd be ok if it was allowed to fail the way we let AMC fail

I don't like the bailouts at all, and failing is just a part of capitalism. If we don't fail, how do we learn from our mistakes?

[CCM]

I bought a used 2007 Chevy Trailblazer SS from a dealer back in December.  I got a sick deal on it.  I traded in my 2002 Chevy Blazer for it.  

I guess I am a GM guy, I've owned 7 cars in my life and 5 of those have been GM's, 2 Buicks, and 3 Chevys.  I never had any trouble with any of them, so that's where I got my loyalty.  

My other 2 vehicles were a Ford and a Dodge, and I had major issues with both.

[Zero_Hour]

...that is until the Sweeds buy back SAAB.  

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/17/business/global/17saab.html

And there it is.

[LLUncoolJ]

I'm not saying my animosity won't subside over time. But wife is going to need a new ride in the next year or so. If I don't go Ford, I'll probably go with something foreign. We had 3 straight MOPARs and had mixed results. But the biggest  kick to the nuts when it came time for the trade in.

[ChadTower]

Mmm Ford... parts made in China, car assembled in Mexico... good American car.

If you want an American car buy a Hyundai.

[Cakemeister]

I'd probably get a new Aveo if they cost $6k.

[daywane]

GM and Dodge I would buy used. ( great deals going on now)
You can get a great ride for $4k
New I would look at Ford or Toyota
I say this because their still hanging tough

[Dartful Dodger]

I don't like that GM needed a bail out and I'd be ok if it was allowed to fail the way we let AMC fail

I don't like the bailouts at all, and failing is just a part of capitalism. If we don't fail, how do we learn from our mistakes?

That's true, but most of the foreign companies have always been subsidized by their governments.  So an American company is at a disadvantage.  The government wasn't helping them before this, and Americans in general have no loyalty to American companies.

I remember reading a story a few years ago about employees at an American car company being upset because they were told they could no longer park their foreign cars in the employee parking lot.

The news coverage was siding with the employees.  I thought it was totally ridiculous.  These people can't even be loyal to the company they work for and the company is the bad guy.

[ChadTower]

I remember reading a story a few years ago about employees at an American car company being upset because they were told they could no longer park their foreign cars in the employee parking lot.

The news coverage was siding with the employees.  I thought it was totally ridiculous.  These people can't even be loyal to the company they work for and the company is the bad guy.

Isn't freedom a ---smurfette--- that way?

[Dartful Dodger]

Isn't freedom a ---smurf--- that way?

Exactly!

They have the freedom to buy any car they want and the company has the freedom to restrict any car it wants.

[ChadTower]

They have the freedom to buy any car they want and the company has the freedom to restrict any car it wants.

The company probably doesn't because it's a union shop.  Want to restrict the parking lot it has to be in the union contract, right?

[DaOld Man]

Back in fall of '87 I bought a brand new 88 Firebird, thinking one of the selling points that it was American made.
Imagine my disgust when I found the engine was made in Canada (not disgust over being made in Canada, just NOT being made in USA).
So I decided then that "made in America" dont necessarily mean that.

My 94 Dodge Dakota died on me (I bought it used), so I decided to buy at least one more new vehicle.

After much searching and researching, I decided on a Toyota Tacoma.
I like it. I like it a lot.

[ChadTower]

That is pretty much exactly what I want for my next vehicle but am too cheap to buy.

[massive88]

I love it when people blame the consumers.  In a free economy, you buy the product that best suits your needs.  If American auto companies want to get pissed off that their products aren't being bought by their employees, I dunno, make a better product to fulfill their needs?

Im pretty sure no one buys a Honda or Toyota simply because its non-American the way that people want Americans to buy American cars simply because they are American.

[Ginsu Victim]

I bought a Honda because it was the best choice for my price range, and I know it will last longer than my last two American cars (Chevrolet and Dodge).

[Dartful Dodger]

I love it when people blame the consumers.  In a free economy, you buy the product that best suits your needs.  If American auto companies want to get pissed off that their products aren't being bought by their employees, I dunno, make a better product to fulfill their needs?

If I'm remembering the story correctly most of the people claimed to have bought their cars before they were employees.  One woman said she was saving up to buy a new car from her company, but was driving the same car she had in college.  But one of the managers who had a personal parking space near the main entrance had a luxury BMW or something like.  It was the factory workers that complained about the BMW.  They just wanted to ban foreign cars in personal spots, they didn't think it would be the whole lot.  Just like they don't think that not buying a car from the company was going to contribute to their plant being shut down in 2009.

Im pretty sure no one buys a Honda or Toyota simply because its non-American the way that people want Americans to buy American cars simply because they are American.

People pay more for French wine that tastes the same as California’s.

I know there are Americans who hate everything American.  I dislike unions, I buy American cars because of what they look like, represent.  Even if it was made in Mexico by Chinese parts.  It's still an American car.

[LLUncoolJ]

We've seen this whole argument on other threads. It wasn't really intended to be an America vs the world thing. More of a 'does it bother you that all of GM's debt is washed clean while Ford took on a mountain of it in order to survive? If so, enough to not buy a GM?'

I'm not sure why this bugs me so much. Before the bailout, I only hated Pontiacs, not GM as a whole. I owned a Chevy Tahoe for my last car. And I think that new Camaro is bad-ass (pains me to say because we'll see 80 million of them on the road in a year and I'll be ripping on them).

[ChadTower]

People pay more for French wine that tastes the same as California’s.

I owned an Escort.  Now I own a Civic.  The difference in quality is exponential.  The two cars do not taste the same.

[massive88]

Just like they don't think that not buying a car from the company was going to contribute to their plant being shut down in 2009.

Blaming the consumer again.

Not making a product that could stand up to the market is what caused their plant to be shut down.  The car needs to stand on its own merits.  Being a Patriotic buy would tip the scales of two equal cars (financing, retention value, warranty, reliability etc...) in the American companies favor, as I would think its a safe guess that all things being equal, Americans would prefer to buy American products. But the companies cant rely solely on that to make their product superior, if you make a inferior, or even perceived inferior product, you wont survive the free market.

Chad's account is spot on with my personal experience.  If I am buying in that price range, and I test drive an Cavalier and a Civic in the early 2000s, they weren't even close, but its my fault that I go with the better product?  What should it matter who my employer is?

[ChadTower]

They're ~$16k here a year or two old. 

Really... and that's in the pickup resale capital of the US.  Wonder what they're selling for here now if they're only 16k in Texas.

[pinballwizard79]

Toyota FJ Cruiser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[danny_galaga]

People pay more for French wine

connoisseurs pay more for French wine because it tastes better than Californian wine 

[daywane]

People pay more for French wine

connoisseurs pay more for French wine because it tastes better than Californian wine 

that's why I drink beer.
cost way less and has same effect

[ChadTower]

Those were $24k flat off the lot in this town a year ago.

Of course, I spent the afternoon looking around for those $16k 1-2 year old Tacomas and they don't really exist here unless you want the 4cyl 2wd regular cab with someone's ex-gf's name carved in the doors.

[hypernova]

I've got no issues with Chevy.  My '98 Cavalier recently crossed over the 100k miles threshold, and it's still going strong.  Haven't had to do anything major yet.  One thing regarding the air conditioner, which wasn't more than $1000, and something else in the hundreds.  The rest is just normal wear and tear.  Tires, oil, filters, etc.

My wife's always had troubles with Dodge.  Dodge blows.

[Kevin Mullins]

crossed over the 100k miles threshold, and it's still going strong

I count four cars out in the yard going strong over 200K..... all different manufacturers. 
And I have NEVER bought a "new" car.

One thing regarding the air conditioner, which wasn't more than $1000

  I'd have been rolling some windows down.

As for the original post......would I buy a GM? .... no.
Any particular reason.... no.

Do I believe in any of the "bailout" BS.... no.
If a huge companies like those are failing, then they deserve to.

[RayB]

I have nothing constructive to add other than we were thinking of checking out the Kia Soul two weekends ago, decided not to, then the next weeked (last weekend) we drive to the dealership and the entire dealership was GONE.

[daywane]

crossed over the 100k miles threshold, and it's still going strong

I count four cars out in the yard going strong over 200K..... all different manufacturers. 
And I have NEVER bought a "new" car.

One thing regarding the air conditioner, which wasn't more than $1000

  I'd have been rolling some windows down.

As for the original post......would I buy a GM? .... no.
Any particular reason.... no.

Do I believe in any of the "bailout" BS.... no.
If a huge companies like those are failing, then they deserve to.

you are like me.
98 Chrysler concord
82 Toyota pick up
87 Mazda rx7
89 s10 blazer
88 ( i think) ford E150
Oh I all ways forget my 1980 Dodge Pace Arrow RV
It sit at the farm. I only use it for my hunting lodge now.

[ChadTower]

I count four cars out in the yard going strong over 200K..... all different manufacturers. 

What state are you in?  This doesn't happen in New England.  Some will reach 200k but not many at all and it takes a lot of dedication on the part of the owner to get it there.  Even the cars known to run forever often can't make it that far because they rust out around the drivetrain before the engine is done.

[daywane]

I am in KY. Rust is a problem here but not to bad
Salt used in winter is the big rust killer hear.
drive in car wash in winter as soon as it gets warm enough helps.
RV came from AZ. Paint fades off cars there. no real rust.

[WunderCade]

What state are you in?  This doesn't happen in New England.  Some will reach 200k but not many at all and it takes a lot of dedication on the part of the owner to get it there.  Even the cars known to run forever often can't make it that far because they rust out around the drivetrain before the engine is done.

In California, my 1995 Mazda Protege is still a champ at 223,000 miles commuting 50 miles a day. The interior is falling apart, the cheap plastics are crumbling....but it's still going strong and the A/C is still cranking out cold air.

[RayB]

Salt used in winter is the big rust killer hear.

Good to know. I always thought the opposite.

[Level42]

I don't understand why the discusion here focusses totally on the product  (the cars) and not on the company, which has been so mis-managed over the last 2 decades. If you don't agree with your government saving GM (I personally feel they should have let it go bust, because that's the American way and it's what will be the best thing to happen to it in the end) I wouldn't buy a car from them.

I've driven a lot of GM products, all Opel cars and I hated each and every one of them, although the very last one (which had a Fiat designed engine) was already getting better.

Why I drove them ? Because that's what the companies I worked for chose as a company car.
Since then I've driven a Renault (much to my own surprise, I choose that one myself and loved it) and now I'm driving my second Skoda Oktavia, which is basically a Volkswagen Golf stationwagen. It's a great car to drive, although it has it's little pro's and con's like any other car.

I feel that the American car builders fail(ed) to match what the market asks for. Lower fuel consumption while maintaining or improving engine power, better quality etc. Even Opel screwed up big with their latest models. The new Insignia is a very nice car though but it maybe too late. I think they would do better without the GM connection.

My wife drives a small Ford Fiesta. We bought it new. It has an old-fashioned 8-valve engine. It's been running without any problem since we bought it in 2000 and I intend to keep the car for as long as it will be running without problems, goal is too reach the year 2015 with it....the down-side is that it's not very fuel-efficient compared to the more modern engined-cars.

If I would have to buy a car, I'd go for a used Japanese car. Most reliable cars ever built. My basic demands for a car is that they are reliable and have low maintenance costs.

[LLUncoolJ]

Toyota FJ Cruiser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Word to that. I plan on buying a 20 year old FJ when I retire and use it as my beach cruiser. It should be all beat up and cheap by then. I love the look, but no way I could do it now, not with 2 little ones to haul around, gotta have a decent sized back seat.

[ChadTower]

I feel that the American car builders fail(ed) to match what the market asks for. Lower fuel consumption while maintaining or improving engine power,

Come over here and take a look around at all the soccer moms driving monster 8 cyl SUVs.  The market here wasn't asking for efficiency or reliability.  It was asking for more cargo space, seats that can be reconfigured, and LCDs at every seat.  It is only recently that that market dried up and still most of those women aren't willing to give up that little luxury bus.  They want to complain about the cost but won't change.  Not yet.

[RayB]

So don't drive a big old heavy monster that you can't steer out of collisions.

Best way not to total your car is not to get in an accident in the first place.

[ChadTower]

So don't drive a big old heavy monster that you can't steer out of collisions.

Best way not to total your car is not to get in an accident in the first place.

You're not the only person on the road and you're not driving all of those other cars.  Every multicar accident caused by one bad driver involves other drivers that weren't driving like a-holes.

[RayB]

You're not the only person on the road and you're not driving all of those other cars.  Every multicar accident caused by one bad driver involves other drivers that weren't driving like a-holes.

Defensive driving.

[ChadTower]

Defensive driving in a bigger steel box.

fixt

[Dartful Dodger]

You'll need a really big steel box to defend against this accident:

Garbage Truck Falls on Car in New York, Killing Driver

[TOK]

Went to the Nissan place down the street.  Fully loaded Titan V8 - ~330 HP, ~380 pounds of torque.  $22k.

I test drove an 06 at CarMax (19k!) and it handled like a pig and was uncomfortable but fixed all the retarded crap that American trucks do to their interiors.  Supposedly they were redesigned in 2008 and improved the handling.

As much as it disgusts me.. the freakin import is selling cheaper than domestics and if my F-150 has some major malfunction at 99k I'm sure as hell not buying another Ford.

 

I have a 5.4 liter Ford truck and a Titan. That "freakin' import" would run away from an empty bed Ford with 3 games and three of the fattest people you could find playing them in the back. It also handles better, so I'm guessing the one you drove was either in a wreck or somehow screwed up.

The Ford has been reliable, but nowhere near matches the power of the Nissan. Unfortunately, Dodge and Nissan did some kind of deal and the next gen Titan is going to be a gussied up Ram.



Weren't you the one saying trucks were pretty much 5 grand under invoice since nobody was buying them? 

[Fordman]

Ok, I'll chime in here since I work for Ford.

First of all, should you buy from GM, my off the cusp answer would be no, Buy Ford. But the logical answer would be Yes! Why buy from them? Because of all the people that directly or indirectly work for GM. Not only does the factory rat, supplier or the design engineer work for them, but those in the service, health, insurance, trucking & rail, utility, steel, rubber and coutless others work for GM. If GM would just be 'hung out to dry and let fail' then up to 10,000,000 people will be out of their jobs almost over night! You want to see the stock market tank, people flock to banks and withdraw their physical cash, let GM fail without the Government assistance! If good 'ole GW was still in office, he'd have no choice to do what Obama has had to do.

2 local MRI and CT-scan facilities have closed up since Jan of this year because of the new GM & Chrysler UAW active and  retired concessions. Hard to believe that those 2 companies kept 2 centers afloat, but they did! I know this for a fact because the boys mother works in the billing dept for the MRI Centers.

For those that say "It's my money and I'll buy what I want", you have the right to buy what you want!. But, if you dont buy from your neighbor, how can your neighbor buy from you? You might be an IT programmer and ask, how does my neighbor buy from me? Well, with what ever your company offers to the world, someone has to be buying or you wouldnt have a job to begin with. If GM was to buy whatever your company was selling, be it something physical, intellectual or virtual, you'd make sure what you were selling them was top-notch evrytime, so they come back to you! You fill their needs, they line your pockets! I also agree tha GM needs to do the same, build the best car so they come back!

As for those that buy from asian car companies, first of all, the profits go back to japan or korea, currency manipulated and redeposited back into US treasury-currency exchange  for higher currency yields. YES THIS IS HOW THEY WORK! So when toy-motor makes a profit of 20+% off of your purchase, they are doing this buy woking the currency system! GM-Chrysler-Ford-Mitsubishi doesnt have this luxury!

As for the hyundai being made in the midwest, geographically wrong! Only 3 models are made in Alabama, (Genesis, Sonata, Santa Fe) with imported labor! I said that corectly, imported labor. The hyundai plant in Alabama has laborers from korea, the european Balkin states and Turkey. They give the laborers 6 month work visa's, room and board, cash payments and on-site health care (band-aids and tylenol). Yes, this is a fact too! Alabama let hyundai build there with a 30 year abatement on physical labor. Less than 5% of their workforce is from the U.S.A.

Honda in Ohio-Indiana is the only jap company to hire full time, regular employees. I applaud them for that but thats where I stop.

Toymotor - nissan uses temp services that means no full time, no benefits and at-will employment! The cheap cotton field labor in the south has turned into cheap manufacturing labor in the south. The southern US states and their legislatures still are stuck in 1810! They want cheap labor and for you to just get a bowl of rice and water and be happy while they eat their steak, potato's and drink their wine right in front of you!

Enough of my ramblings!
 

Fordman

[Fordman]

Also,

If anyone is truely interested in buying a new Ford, Lincoln or Mercury Vehicle, PM me for an X-Plan pin number!. X-Plan saves anywhere from 3%-4% off the sticker price, you keep all rebates or special financing, no destination charge and no paper work fees!

Walk in to the showroom, tell the salesperson that you have an X-Plan pin and they have to show you the original documentation from the factory what the dealership pays for the car. Now be forwarned, sales persons dont like X-Plans because the sales person only makes $10.00 off of the sale. So they feel somewhat cheated and I kinda agree, but the dealership get full reimbursment for the car from the factory!

Your best bet right now, an Edge or F-150 with  X-Plan and with Ford Motor Credit!



You Can see the Price Difference!



So if your TRULEY in the market for a NEW American Vehicle, PM Me!

Fordman

[ChadTower]

I was on ford.com today and they say 0% financing is available.  And I am seriously considering replacing my civic with a pickup.

[TOK]

Toymotor - nissan uses temp services that means no full time, no benefits and at-will employment! The cheap cotton field labor in the south has turned into cheap manufacturing labor in the south. The southern US states and their legislatures still are stuck in 1810! They want cheap labor and for you to just get a bowl of rice and water and be happy while they eat their steak, potato's and drink their wine right in front of you!

I heard a story on the radio about Toyota... It says they've never laid off a full time employee, and was only just now looking at it because things are so slow. When there was a plant stoppage a few months ago, they let people do community service for full pay. Are you aware of that?
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090124/AUTO01/901240355
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE51G0WE20090217

Right now I have an Ford E250,  Nissan Titan and a Toytoa Tacoma.

The Ford chassis was assembled in Ohio, the 5.4 in Ontario Canada.
The Toyota was built in Freemont CA at a joint GM plant. It actually had some GM accessories, like a Delco battery when new.
The Nissan was built in Canton Mississippi.

How is it possible to truly buy American? Sure Nissan and Toyota are sending executive money back to Japan.
Is that any worse than Ford or Chevy spending millions on on CEO's here? The bread and butter jobs are in the plants, and for now Nissan and Toyota have them here rather than Mexico (I read Toyota is looking at a Mexico for the Tacoma though).

I drove a Ford and a Chevy before buying the Nissan. It was the better truck.
If I were to shop again today, I'd drive the Ford first. It has the nicest interior now, and the fact that Ford didn't take bailout money matters to me.

Its cool of you not to be confrontational about this, and also cool for you to love the company you work for.
That does say a lot about the both of you. 

[Dartful Dodger]

Why buy from them? Because of all the people that directly or indirectly work for GM. Not only does the factory rat, supplier or the design engineer work for them, but those in the...

Funny, I saw Flash of Genius last night and I was going to post it as a reason to avoid Fords.  Your post not only erased any ill feelings I had against Ford because of that movie, but it also erased any ill feelings I had for Ford before seeing that movie.

Dodges, on the other hand, still suk.

[ChadTower]

Hrm...

[RayB]

Can an arcade cabinet fit in a Scion xB (old style)?

[Fordman]

I heard a story on the radio about Toyota... It says they've never laid off a full time employee, and was only just now looking at it because things are so slow. When there was a plant stoppage a few months ago, they let people do community service for full pay. Are you aware of that?
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090124/AUTO01/901240355
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE51G0WE20090217

Very much aware of the toymotor employees getting full pay for non-traditional jobs when their plant is idle. We did the same thing and the ever so wonderful Senators from tennesee, alabama and south carolina all complained about it. The UAW started the non-traditional job for pay program. Guess who paid the penalty for the complaining? United Way, Catholic Social Services, Goodwill Industries, Big Brother's - Big Sisters, about 50 different local school districts (lunch room and bus attendants), even the Cincinnati Zoo had about 10 of our guys there working, but Ford paying them. Not only does Ford pay them, but the insurance and the workers comp, but NOOOOO!!!! The lazy UAW workers were getting paid not to work in their plants, so the wonderful southern senators could grandstand!

funny how its good for 1 but not the other! 

Thanks to those that buy from an American company and still believes that it needs to be Made in the U.S.A. from a North American Company!

 

Fordman

BTW hard to compare GM-Opel to GM-North America. Way difference in cars and life styles!

[protokatie]

I had a Ford Prefect once, it was OK and all, except that it always had this little Dent that kept following it everywhere.... No matter what I did, I couldn't seem to get rid of this Dent...

[ChadTower]

I had a Ford Prefect once, it was OK and all, except that it always had this little Dent that kept following it everywhere.... No matter what I did, I couldn't seem to get rid of this Dent...

That ride was a seriously hoopy frood.

BTW, I contacted the seller on that 1500 I linked to above.  He launched immediately into a long spiel about how he uses ebay to complete large transactions so that the money is safe while the vehicle is being shipped.  I'm a 30 minute drive from him.  Suspecting a scam.

[shardian]

Toyota has a plant in my county. They pump a buttload of funds into the community, and pay extremely good wages to their assembly line workers. They have also sent a large amount of contracting work to my company - I have done 2 jobs there myself. I would not have a problem at all supporting a company that does so much for my area.

[LLUncoolJ]

I was on ford.com today and they say 0% financing is available.  And I am seriously considering replacing my civic with a pickup.

You may consider waiting a month or so, they always roll out big rebates the second half of the year. Plus, if last year repeats, they offer employee pricing plus rebates late in the year. Employee pricing is better than x-plan. I have a 2007 F-150 FX4 I bought new and got the x-plan through a friend. They had $4500 rebates at the time for a super crew cab. Mine stickered at $38K and some change. I took it home for around $30K. Forman is right, they really don't want to play ball at all when you use the x-plan. They fuct me on my trade in, which was expected. But I did manage to get close to KBB value on it.
I'd always been told and it was confirmed by the salesman that you should buy at the end of the month. I bought mine on the last weekend in July. Anyway, better deals should be coming down the pipe soon.

[HaRuMaN]

Can an arcade cabinet fit in a Scion xB (old style)?

I dunno, but I got a Capcom Impress 29" into my Honda Fit, hatch completely closed.

[Fordman]

I will say mid July - August is usually the best time to buy. All the mfg's are trying to clear out their current model year as the new model year usually starts Sept 1.

But toymotor seems to still have 2008 tundra's on their lots as they are advertising heavily on Reds radio and TV to try and get rid of them! I guess they arnt willing to wheel & Deal them too much. The 'Industry Insider' tells us at work that toymotor still has 21,000 2008's on their lots nationwide and that only 20,000 2009's were produced so far this year! For the so called 'Truck of the Year' looks like its stuck in the mud!


Fordman

[ChadTower]

A few months back at Bass Pro they were giving out gift cards in return for test driving a Tundra.  That thing was a beast and you could barely even feel the speed bumps and obstacle course they had set up.  I'd take that over anything in the F150 line without hesitation.  Too bad it's way out of my price range.

[LLUncoolJ]

It's supposed to go to friends/family of Ford employees. I think the A plan is for the actual employee and is the same as you get when they offer employee pricing. Unfortunately that deal is normally reserved for the overstock vehicles...so it is hit and miss, depending on what you are looking for.

Never drove a Toyota or Nissan full size. I'm not that anti foreign and my fear is probably unfounded, but if you are doing actual work of pulling trailers, I don't trust them. Americans have just been doing it longer. Like I said, may not be true.

My Ford has performed pretty well. The suspension is a little stiff, but it is an FX4. It pulls my boat like it isn't there and stops it just as well. I had a Chevy and it was a little fancier on the inside, but they always felt like low riders to me, even the 4WD. Two knocks on the Ford: The AC does not get cold fast at all...Chevy is instant iceberg, Dodge isn't bad either. Two, I went from a Chevy to a Ford and the seat felt like a cinder block. It was SO hard compared to Chevy.

[Flake]

The AC does not get cold fast at all...

Ditto - its pretty annoying this time of year.

[Fordman]

Chances are the X-Plan will be about the same price with or without it! Sometimes a large volume dealer can give you a better deal without the X-Plan. But read the fine print on the deal from the dealer, The dealer keeps the rebate or you get the rebate but take a higher % rate for financing. Sometimes you only get the 1-2% finance rate or lower if you use Ford Motor Credit only, but sometimes its still  worthwhile looking at your local credit union for a low rate so you can keep the rebate!

As for the A-Plan and employee pricing, not quite the same.  With A-Plan we dont pay destination, paper work or dealer prep fees. Also with A-Plan we get parts and service at about 8-12% off the regular shelf price. Employees price is kinda  a sales gimmick but you can save money with it!

As for the AC not being too cold, ditto here, but Ford uses a different cooling system to keep the stress of the AC off the motor so you dont loose power when you need it! Try pulling an 8500 pound boat and trailer with AC and see how much stress you put on the motor and transmission. The AC is electronically fluctuating as to if/how much of a load is on the powertrain. Ford is also working on an indepedent AC system that fully takes the load off the motor. They just need to find out where to shove the thing under the hood!

the local Bass-Pro was also giving up to $100.00 for tundra test drives but the salesman there told me that he didnt sell one the day of the $100.00 test drives. I didnt tell him I worked for Ford. The local toymotor dealership that has the salesman there pulled the salesman and just has business cards and flyers available if interested in buying one out of the Bass-Pro shop.

 

Fordman

[Fordman]

PM me and I need your Full name, address, last four of your SS#, car you currently have, trade in or not, car you want to buy (although you dont have to use the X-Plan on your first choice. If you tell me F-150 but buy an Edge you dont have to get a different X-Plan pin #).

It only takes about 2 minutes for me to generate an X-Plan pin #

after I generate the X-Plan Pin# I'll keep it valid for 30 days if you decide not to use it!

Also, just because I gave you an X-Plan pin # doesnt mean you have to use it or agree with me and my posts! 

Fordman

[LLUncoolJ]

Very noble Fordman. I may take you up on that later in the summer if my wife's Mitzubishi nickel and dimes me (just dropped $400+ on some fuel tank sensor that was causing a check engine light to come on...apparently it is not vital, but it would stay on and if something else went wrong you wouldn't know). 

[Fordman]

I'm no mechanic, but I play one on BYOAC - Forums - Everything Else! 

LLuncooJ - change the gas cap, take the positive off the battery for 10 minutes, see if that clears the code and if it throws the same check engine light. If it does, check the gasoline fill line at where the neck attaches to the body of the car for any air leaks. This is the number one Check Engine light code problem. If thats not it, check the O2 sensor.

Pinballjim, losen the bolts, put in some permatex gasket sealer, titghten the bolts 3-5 nm beyond what the book calls for, scrape off any excess or squeezed out permatex, let it run, heat up then let it sit over night. After it has cooled, take a sharpie and color the blue to black so it wont get noticed. Then drive it for a few days and see if you may have fixed the leak temporarily, then trade it in on a nice new F-150! PM me for the X-Plan Pin before you buy. If you want, get the vin # and dealership name-town and I'll look up the X-Plan for you on a particular vehicle!

 

Fordman

[Fordman]

Wow, if you could find one for $20K , then sign for it! I'll have to wait until July 1 to see what deals they have for July as it is the last day of June and the deals end rather suddenly the last 3 days of the current sales month.

I'll check the inventory of the zip code you gave me at about 10:00AM Eastern time

 

Fordman

[Fordman]

just PM me a valid email address and I can get you access to the AXZ pricing website.

I didnt know I could do that, but I can. You get an email invitaion from Ford, follow the steps (hoops) and search dealer inventory with the X-Plan price. It also shows the A-Plan price.

Fordman

[ChadTower]

For your amusement:

Hi.... definitely very interested.  I live closeby and would love to take a closer look. 

Hello,

Thank you for your interest in buying my 2008 Chevrolet Silverado.

It is a 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LS with clear title , and the price that I want for it is $16,000 with free shipping (to your location) included. As you can see in pictures the car is in perfect condition, looks like new, it has never been scratched or wrecked was never been abused or raced. I travel a lot because my work but I can ship the car for no extra costs anywhere in USA.
In the past I used for large transactions eBay protection program.
Here is how it works if you have never used eBay vehicle purchase protection program.
You send me your full name and your shipping address so I can initiate the transaction on eBay. eBay contacts you with further details regarding the payment and shipping process.You submit the payment to eBay, eBay confirms the payment and asks me to release the shipment. I ship the car which should be at your door within the next 6 business days. You have a 7 days inspection period before you confirm the deal and eBay forwards the payment to me or you cancel the deal and you get your money back and return the vehicle free of charge.
Basically eBay holds your money safe until you confirm that the car is what you have expected and you want to buy it. It is not a sight unseen deal.
On the other hand I can ship the car knowing eBay has your money and you wont disappear with my car. We are both covered.
Sorry for the long emails I have tried to touch all bases.
So please let me know if you are interested.

I don't need it shipped.  I am in MA about a half hour south.  All I need is a straight local transaction, after seeing the truck in person of course, and possibly having my mechanic check the truck if we agree it is worth doing.
 
Are you available tomorrow night to show the truck?

Hello,

As I already told you, I away with my work and I can't come home only to show you the car. That's why I chose to do the deal through eBay protection program. You'll get the chance to test drive the car or go to a local workshop before I get paid. If the car is not exactly as described you can ship it back to me free of charge and you'll get your money back from eBay.

Please let me know asap because I need money urgent and I have to sell the car.

You want to ship the car 20 miles?

No, I can come home and you can pick it up yourself. It is much better this way.

 

[shardian]

Dude, keep it going! Ask him where it is currently sitting so you can at least check out the exterior and peek in the windows.

[ChadTower]

Hrm.  Well, I'll be in the area tomorrow as I frequently do business in Newton.  Could you give me the address so I can at least check out the exterior?  I'd like to see the graphics on the tailgate up close.

[Fordman]

I smell a scam! or was that the dog? 

I responded to a craigslist ad about a Ford Escort to drive to work and they wanted me to buy the car for $800. but have it shipped 20 miles for $1,000. I told them I was local and could just pick it up! They insisted on the $1,000 delivery fee. I told them to shove it. Then about 2 weeks later, one of the local news station did a story on the scam and 3 people were busted seeling junk cars to people in poorer neighborhoods without titles and charging the $1,000 delivery fees.

Fordman

[Fordman]

Just something I'd thought I'd share!
http://www.cnbc.com/id/31686907/site/14081545?__source=yahoo%7Cheadline%7Cquote%7Ctext%7C&par=yahoo

or a full report for July Sales

http://media.ford.com/images/10031/June09sales.pdf

Go Blue Oval!

 

Fordman

[ChadTower]

Hey!  That is good news.  Maybe I can leverage that into a better deal on a Tacoma.

[protokatie]

All of this makes me glad I live about 2000 feet from work. I sold my truck a few years back, and just walk to work. If I need to do any grocery shopping or anything, I can usually con one of the roomies into a ride, or walk to the place and call a cab for 5 bucks to bring me back home.
Walking to work in bad weather can suck, but compared to the cost of vehicle ownership, I think I can deal with a little cold or wet weather: I have heard that it can build character as well, but have yet to see this personally.

[HaRuMaN]

All of this makes me glad I live about 2000 feet from work. I sold my truck a few years back, and just walk to work. If I need to do any grocery shopping or anything, I can usually con one of the roomies into a ride, or walk to the place and call a cab for 5 bucks to bring me back home.
Walking to work in bad weather can suck, but compared to the cost of vehicle ownership, I think I can deal with a little cold or wet weather: I have heard that it can build character as well, but have yet to see this personally.

Don't you live in Maine?  Walking to work in 3 feet of snow must suck....

[ChadTower]

Hello,

I have another buyer who accepted my selling terms. If you want my car please give me your full name and address so I can initiate the transaction, I'll come home to meet you after you will deposit the amount on an ebay account.

[protokatie]

All of this makes me glad I live about 2000 feet from work. I sold my truck a few years back, and just walk to work. If I need to do any grocery shopping or anything, I can usually con one of the roomies into a ride, or walk to the place and call a cab for 5 bucks to bring me back home.
Walking to work in bad weather can suck, but compared to the cost of vehicle ownership, I think I can deal with a little cold or wet weather: I have heard that it can build character as well, but have yet to see this personally.

Don't you live in Maine?  Walking to work in 3 feet of snow must suck....

Yeah, but I need the exercise, and besides, Mainers are a different breed (as in we are often mistaken for Canadian when we travel  ). The vehicle I had a few years back made the trip a bit more pleasant ('90 Ford Ranger with the old fashioned 4x4 (the real kind, with the hub locks, none of this sissy "push button" crap)).

[shardian]

$600 for a manifold gasket?!? Gotta love dealership shops.

[sirwoogie]

Buy the car or truck you want. Just make sure it's a Ford.

[ChadTower]

I bought a Tacoma today.  

2008, 14k miles, 4k under private party book.  Even the loan officer did a Keanu Reeves at the bill of sale.

[pinballwizard79]

Just buy a Honda fit (35mpg) or the diesel VW hatchback (50mpg).

[TOK]

Just buy a Honda fit (35mpg) or the diesel VW hatchback (50mpg).

And then pester his relatives and friends when he needs a pickup, like mine do to me? 
For the things I do, a Fit would be marginally more useful to me than a bicycle. Some people really do use trucks as trucks. 

[Fordman]

Dont go Ridgeline!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is a pansy excuse for a truck! Great for dinner and groceries, but if you want to haul or tow something, the Ridgeline is a waste of sheet metal!

As for the Tundra getting ready to fly off the lots with the cash for clunckers vouchers, the Tundra doesnt qualify. Hell, here in Toymotors back yard, Cincinnati, they are still advertising '08's on the Reds games and in the papers! The tundra's are a dud and from what I've seen in the industry publications, the '10's are just '09's that wasnt issued a VIN number yet because of the lack of '08-'09 sales. They've been sitting in the 'ready to ship - hold' lot.

As for the box with wheels scion,  or element, UGLY! The Ford Flex is just as UGLY!

Fordman

[HaRuMaN]

I've more or less got the cheaper better version of a Fit (Scion xD) - 100% assembled in Tokyo!   

The Fit is 100% made in Japan, too.

[ChadTower]

DIAF. 

I had to look that up.  Anyone else?

[Fordman]

Whoooaaa Pinballjim. DIAF ?

Chances are the work was done right or it wouldnt have made it out of the factory. But as with anything, things do go wrong. The toymotor and honda dealerships have service departments too at their dealerships and they're always full, and NO the people just arnt getting oil changes or wiper blade replacements.

The number one problem for car or truck, BAD GAS. If you buy gas from Joe Schmoo's thrifty gas, then you get 87 octane with the minimum required EPA detergents. If you buy a branded gas, chances are you get better detergets and a guarantee. Joe Schmoo might be a few pennies cheaper on the gallon, but will cost you in the long run. Ford recomends BP gas, but not all areas have a BP station, so a Shell or Marathon equvilient will do. 

Bad Gas can cause anywhere from fuel line or pump issues, injector clog up to injector failure, improper combustion leaving lots of carbon in the combustion chamber, fouling out the spark plugs pre-maturely. Extra carbon then doesnt exit out the exhaust or if it does, getting stuck in the manifold or if it makes it to the catalytic convertor or even the muffler. Carbon getting mixed with the oil, then possible gumming up the oil pump (why do you think there is alot of sludge in lots of oil pans?)

With any vehicle at every 20,000 miles, you should buy 2 bottles of Chevron Techron

 

Put in a full 93 octane tank and one bottle of Techron, run all that out. Fill again with 93 octane and other bottle of Techron. Run that out, then go back to your regular gasoline.
This cleans dirt from the injectors - fuel line and carbon from the engine. You will notice a difference with how the vehicle runs!
Better yet, if you have Chevron Stations in your area, use their gas because they put this stuff in their gas already!

Yes, bad gas is usually the start of alot of other issues like the O2 sensors, sticking lifters and the likes going bad too.

Just because the japs made it, doesnt mean it wont break!

Fordman

[HaRuMaN]

DIAF. 

I had to look that up.  Anyone else?

Yep.  That was a new one on me.

[shardian]

Whoooaaa Pinballjim. DIAF ?

Chances are the work was done right or it wouldnt have made it out of the factory. But as with anything, things do go wrong. The toymotor and honda dealerships have service departments too at their dealerships and they're always full, and NO the people just arnt getting oil changes or wiper blade replacements.

The number one problem for car or truck, BAD GAS. If you buy gas from Joe Schmoo's thrifty gas, then you get 87 octane with the minimum required EPA detergents. If you buy a branded gas, chances are you get better detergets and a guarantee. Joe Schmoo might be a few pennies cheaper on the gallon, but will cost you in the long run. Ford recomends BP gas, but not all areas have a BP station, so a Shell or Marathon equvilient will do. 

Bad Gas can cause anywhere from fuel line or pump issues, injector clog up to injector failure, improper combustion leaving lots of carbon in the combustion chamber, fouling out the spark plugs pre-maturely. Extra carbon then doesnt exit out the exhaust or if it does, getting stuck in the manifold or if it makes it to the catalytic convertor or even the muffler. Carbon getting mixed with the oil, then possible gumming up the oil pump (why do you think there is alot of sludge in lots of oil pans?)

With any vehicle at every 20,000 miles, you should buy 2 bottles of Chevron Techron

 

Put in a full 93 octane tank and one bottle of Techron, run all that out. Fill again with 93 octane and other bottle of Techron. Run that out, then go back to your regular gasoline.
This cleans dirt from the injectors - fuel line and carbon from the engine. You will notice a difference with how the vehicle runs!
Better yet, if you have Chevron Stations in your area, use their gas because they put this stuff in their gas already!

Yes, bad gas is usually the start of alot of other issues like the O2 sensors, sticking lifters and the likes going bad too.

Just because the japs made it, doesnt mean it wont break!

Fordman

You really should not put 93 octane in a 4 banger. Pre-ignition, knock, valve damage...all of these things are not good. Just keep that in mind folks.

[Fordman]

I agree, 4 cylinders shouldnt use 93 octane all the time due to the heat the 93 octance produces and could warp the intake manifold and head.

As for the gasoline coming out of the same pipeline, I agree, but its when what valves are turned on that either increase the octane or detergents. Also if your local station is charging for a 93 octane and they are only giving you 89, then your local weights & measures department is being given a special brown envelope to look the other way.

Also, some Cadillacs and performance cars can only run on 93 octane, so I will disagree with your assesment that all the gas is the same!

Fordman

[Flake]

You really should not put 93 octane in a 4 banger. Pre-ignition, knock, valve damage...all of these things are not good. Just keep that in mind folks.

Why should he worry about that?  He thinks cars are only made for 100k.

I have a very difficult time believing in magical gasoline given that I grew up in the shadow of an oil refinery that made one type of gasoline - premium.  All the local gas stations sent their trucks to the same spigot and they all dispensed the same gasoline into three different tanks and charged three different prices.  Everyone that worked at the refinery knew this, yet there were people that were CONVINCED it wasn't true and insisted on paying an extra 50 cents/gallon.

Thus is insanity.

Haha.....that reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Homer and Barney take the Duff Brewery tour.  There's a scene showing Duff, Duff Dry, and Duff Lite all coming from the same vat.

Sorry, couldnt resist.

[shardian]

You really should not put 93 octane in a 4 banger. Pre-ignition, knock, valve damage...all of these things are not good. Just keep that in mind folks.

Why should he worry about that?  He thinks cars are only made for 100k.

I have a very difficult time believing in magical gasoline given that I grew up in the shadow of an oil refinery that made one type of gasoline - premium.  All the local gas stations sent their trucks to the same spigot and they all dispensed the same gasoline into three different tanks and charged three different prices.  Everyone that worked at the refinery knew this, yet there were people that were CONVINCED it wasn't true and insisted on paying an extra 50 cents/gallon.

Thus is insanity.

They may be getting it from the same spigot, but what they are pumping out is different. Gas stations have 2 gasoline tanks - one for 87 and one for 93. The mid-grade is made by mixing the 2 other grades at the pump. As Fordman said, individual gas tanks and pumps are tested by the Weights and Measures department to make sure the gas stations aren't screwing customers.

Does everything have to be a conspiracy with you Jim? Jeez, I feel like I am talking with my dad!

[ChadTower]

tested by the Weights and Measures department to make sure the gas stations aren't screwing customers.

I don't trust weights and measures either.  Everything in the MA/RI gov't is kickbacks and scams.  It has gotten to the point that they don't even hide it anymore since there is nobody to prosecute them. 

[TOK]

There seems to  be some confusion on octane. The way I understand it, it is just a measure of knock resistance

The number of cylinders an engine has is meaningless to the octane rating, but in the example cited here (an engine running hot) the 4 cylinder engine would actually need the higher octane to resist pre-ingition due to the high cylinder temperature.

[Fordman]

Pinball, I would say that the gasoline coming fom the same pipeline is a 'running joke' among the people who work at the refinery. Just as the running joke was to 'not buy a car made on Monday or Friday'.

All the milk comes from the same cows. So you say the Vitamin D is no different than the 2% Lowfat? No, the 2% has had some of the 'cream' so to speak removed or some would say 'watered' down to make it 2% lowfat. It's all pasturized in the same tanks, but what it is processed into and what jug or carton is where the difference is.

The same is true for Pepsi or Coca Cola syrup. Same syrup, just when its mixed with either sugar, corn syrup or Equal (sacchrin) does it become regular or diet.

The base product is the same, it's just what you want for the end result.

Same tree, it's either notebook paper or toilet paper! Its how you use the pulp to make tissue paper or weave paper (notebook is weave).

 

Fordman

[richms]

You have weird octanes in the states - here its all 91 and 95, or at other stations 91 and 98.. which is stupid since nothing since the era of carbs should have the low octane stuff in it and few cars benifit from 98, but those that do are normally higher boost cars so 95 is a risky business in them unless you can keep your foot off the floor and the revs down...

But we have seperate nozzles for the fuels - partly because they have to put a massive cover like handle on the diesel one to stop people putting that into their cars in a moment of inattentiveness... and it still happens all the time..

In anycase. there are many GM cars here... holden branded holdens and europeans. The only US made GM car was a caviller that are used imports from japan that are branded toyota from some deal done in the clinton era. And the general consensus on them is to avoid at all costs.. The holdens however, well they are great - the european ones like the vectra and astra less so...

[protokatie]

Octane = C8H18. It isnt a very good measure, as you could have some very viable C7H16 (septane) in the fuel as well. Or even C10H24 (decatane SP?) .

Regardless, count the molecules of Cx+H(2x +2) for as long as they last. Sad to live at the end of modern civilization.