GORF!!!!

[dmel75]

Suggestions?

I just obtained a near mint GORF machine from Midway, 1981. Has some slight glitching, random shutdown issues, some screen burn in. Thinking of what to do with it after I clean it up and test it. Any ideas? What is required to convert a standard GORF to a Jamma-compatible machine? Any advice is appreciated!! Thought of installing one of those 60-n-1 boards and modifying the controls a little but I know that is sacrilege to some....  =)

Thanks!

[IG-88]

Mame it, paint it black and put a frankenpanel on it. 

[HaRuMaN]

 

[IG-88]

It's weird but my dad used to do that  ^  to me all the time....

[Spyridon]

Suggestions?

I just obtained a near mint GORF machine from Midway, 1981. Has some slight glitching, random shutdown issues, some screen burn in. Thinking of what to do with it after I clean it up and test it. Any ideas? What is required to convert a standard GORF to a Jamma-compatible machine? Any advice is appreciated!! Thought of installing one of those 60-n-1 boards and modifying the controls a little but I know that is sacrilege to some....  =)

Thanks!

I did not read this.  I did not read this.  I did not read this.  I did not read this.  I did not read this.  I did not read this.  I did not read this.  I did not read this.  I did not read this.  I did not read this.  I did not read this.  I did not read this.  I did not read this.  I did not read this.  I did not read this. 

[dmel75]

ok. It's darn near mint. I can't gut it. However, there are pcb or monitor issues. It powers on, screen flickers and that's it. Anyone have any basic troubleshooting steps? The guy says it was working then sat in a hot garage for a while. I guess I should start by a removal/cleaning of all pcb parts and see what that does. Will post pics soon for a 1981 cab it's very clean.

[retrofuture]

Give it to me and I'll buy you a 60-in-1 Jamma cab..  .

[Benevolance]

Congrats on finding the cab. That sounds like a pretty sweet score.

I think what most people are trying to say is that this would make a better restoration project than a Mame project. Personally, if I had the room, I'd restore the cabinet. And then build a Mame cabinet with a PC inside to side beside it.

[dmel75]

Yes, this is definitely going to be a restoration project, after thinking about it I just wouldn't feel right about killing it. I found a VERY good forum post about a guy who's already blazed this trail http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=80733.0 the only difference is that his machine was playable before he started. Just glancing around I don't see anything blatantly out of place but I have little experience. Here are some pictures of the 50$ gorf cabinet. I think it will be a fun project and was a steal of a deal! It will sit beside my Mame cabinet someday when it's running again. I'll try and keep a good photo log of my progress. Again, if anyone has any good advice on how to clean PCB's/Monitors I'm all ears.

[TOK]

Good call. Thats way too nice to MAME.

[dmel75]

Yeah, it's going to be fun but MAN the PCB area in the bottom of the cabinet is FILTHY! I don't even know where to begin....

[Spyridon]

Yeah, it's going to be fun but MAN the PCB area in the bottom of the cabinet is FILTHY! I don't even know where to begin....

Cleaning it is the easy part.  Read through that thread you linked above and you can see how I did it.  As far as diagnosing your problems, the first place I would start would be the verify that your voltages are correct.

[dmel75]

Guess it's time to go get a decent voltmeter. Do you know what points to measure on a gorf cab?

[dmel75]

I fiddled with the Gorf cab a little this morning. When I plug it in and hit the power switch on the top the monitor flashes white, then goes back to 'dead' looking. i hear a low hum and none of the lights on the cab work anywhere. Starting Sunday night I'm going to begin a tear down, anyone have any Gorf PCB sets they're willing to part with? I don't know that I need them yet but I bet I'll need to replace some of the internals before it's over with. I think it's time I close this thread and start a new one under 'restorations.'

[cmoses]

Nice find, glad you are going to restore it.  It looks very clean.

Can you answer a question I have.  I am not familiar with this cabinet, but it looks to be pretty deep.  Yet I notice it has plastic piece in the back that buldges out.  I assume this is for the monitor, but it seems weird.  That has to be a 19" monitor in there, why does it need the buldge?

I have seen other cabinets that look much smaller in depth and they have no problem with the monitors. 

[Spyridon]

It is a 19" monitor.  With the verticle oritentation, the back door wouldn't fit because of the monitor frame.  I don't remember the dimensions, but I think the cab is slightly smaller than an average cab.  I had the same issue with a Taito cab that I rotated the monitor on.  Once it was rotated, the monitor frame stuck out the back.

[Spyridon]

I fiddled with the Gorf cab a little this morning. When I plug it in and hit the power switch on the top the monitor flashes white, then goes back to 'dead' looking. i hear a low hum and none of the lights on the cab work anywhere.

First thing to do is check the light bulbs.  None of them were good in my cab.

I think it's time I close this thread and start a new one under 'restorations.'

Tht top thread in the restoration section is a place to post threads you want moved.  Post this one there and they will move it over to the restoration section for you.

[dmel75]

Ok, after more careful inspection it's clear to me that there are multiple electronic issues involved which I do not think I have the patience or electrical know-how to fix. I don't want to throw a "frankenpanel" on it and "mame it up" (I already have a mame cabinet for that) but what I do want to do is preserve the look and feel of the original Gorf if possible.* I've read dozens of articles/threads about restoring cabs and a recurring theme is dead or dying capacitors and transformers that are as old as the ones in this Gorf cabinet. I think it's inevitable that they are either bad or will die soon. In an effort to keep the look and feel, is it possible to power up an old cabinet like a '81 Gorf on new electrical equipment? i.e. Can the PCB cage/Monitor be run and or powered by a standard jamma-type power supply or ATX power supply?

*If it becomes apparent that the expense of tracking down all the arcane electronic parts in this cabinet will exceed the cost of replacing them entirely with another board set, then my only choice will be to somehow convert the cabinet while preserving as much as I can. If that comes to pass then you purists have my word that i'll buy a second hand Gorf panel and mod it, not the original and I'll offer the Gorf electronics up for sale.

[danny_galaga]

You can buy brand new power supplies for arcade machines. I have no links right now but i'm sure someone will soon (",)

Don't be afraid of doing things like replacing capacitors. thats quite simple work. Hey, if Chadtower can do it, YOU can 

[SirPeale]

...or you can use this as a learning experience. 

This thing is in excellent shape.  With some simple tools, and a few learned skills,  you may be able to get it back up and running.

[dmel75]

Nice find, glad you are going to restore it.  It looks very clean.

Can you answer a question I have.  I am not familiar with this cabinet, but it looks to be pretty deep.  Yet I notice it has plastic piece in the back that buldges out.  I assume this is for the monitor, but it seems weird.  That has to be a 19" monitor in there, why does it need the buldge?

I have seen other cabinets that look much smaller in depth and they have no problem with the monitors. 

I looked closely at the back panel tonight, the monitor mount protrudes just slightly enough to need the plastic basin on the back.

[dmel75]

You can buy brand new power supplies for arcade machines. I have no links right now but i'm sure someone will soon (",)

Don't be afraid of doing things like replacing capacitors. thats quite simple work. Hey, if Chadtower can do it, YOU can 

Wow, that would be great. I just don't know enough about these machines to know which pieces are proprietary for the machine and which can be swapped. I poked around some more in the electronics and tried turning it off and on a few times. After reseating some cables, using a brush to knock off some dirt I got a different result. I powered it on and the screen turned a nice even red color, it sat there for a minute or two and LO AND BEHOLD, I SAW GORF!!! It was flickering and looked to have some vertical hold issues but I could CLEARLY make out the game. I heard no sound whatsoever but I could see the game. Then, about the time I got excited, it went back to the red screen and nothing I did from that point got any other result. I'm beginning to think the power system is ok, it's powering on the monitor fully and I was able to see some game output so that leads me back to looking at something like the PCB cage, the RGB unit or some connection somewhere. Anyone have any ideas about a red screen? 

Thanks for reading!!!

[WunderCade]

What city are you in? There may be a fellow BYOAC'er or KLOVer in your area that may come and assist you. It happens all the time.

[dmel75]

What city are you in? There may be a fellow BYOAC'er or KLOVer in your area that may come and assist you. It happens all the time.

I'm in Jackson, Mississippi. Anyone out there?   

[IG-88]

I was just just kidding in my earlier post. If you are this close to getting it to run you HAVE to restore. If nothing else resell it to a local BYOAC'er, putting anything else in this would be a travesty.

[Spyridon]

As a first step, check the voltages coming out of your power supply.  It's east to test on Gorf.  If you unplug the cable going from the power supply to the board set cage, you can test it right there using the end of the cable.  Each wire is clearly labeled (well, maybe not clearly depending on how much dirt) on the cage. 


Match up the wires from the diagram on the cage, and plug the leads from your DMM into the harness wire to test.

If you find you aren't getting the correct voltages, you have two options.  Repair the linear power supply with a rebuild kit from Bob Roberts, or replace it with a switching power supply.  If you go with a switching power supply, you will need a Gorf power supply conversion kit available at Arcadeshop.com


Mspaeth on the KLOV forums also sells an ATX conversion kit (if you can get in touch with him)

[SirPeale]

As a first step, check the voltages coming out of your power supply.  It's east to test on Gorf.  If you unplug the cable going from the power supply to the board set cage, you can test it right there using the end of the cable.  Each wire is clearly labeled (well, maybe not clearly depending on how much dirt) on the cage. 

Most power supplies need to be tested under load to be accurately measured.  But you can still unplug the harness to see which wire does what.

[dmel75]

As a first step, check the voltages coming out of your power supply.  It's east to test on Gorf.  If you unplug the cable going from the power supply to the board set cage, you can test it right there using the end of the cable.  Each wire is clearly labeled (well, maybe not clearly depending on how much dirt) on the cage. 


Match up the wires from the diagram on the cage, and plug the leads from your DMM into the harness wire to test.

If you find you aren't getting the correct voltages, you have two options.  Repair the linear power supply with a rebuild kit from Bob Roberts, or replace it with a switching power supply.  If you go with a switching power supply, you will need a Gorf power supply conversion kit available at Arcadeshop.com


Mspaeth on the KLOV forums also sells an ATX conversion kit (if you can get in touch with him)

Thanks SOOO much for the info. I think I'd like to use a new power supply if I can, just to try and increase the life of the machine. Just for kicks, what is the proper voltage I need to be looking for? I've used a voltmeter but it's been a LOOOOOONG time ago and it was just for battery checking for RC cars.

[RayB]

Just for kicks, what is the proper voltage I need to be looking for? I've used a voltmeter but it's been a LOOOOOONG time ago and it was just for battery checking for RC cars.

Dude, LOOK at the photos.

[HaRuMaN]

Just for kicks, what is the proper voltage I need to be looking for? I've used a voltmeter but it's been a LOOOOOONG time ago and it was just for battery checking for RC cars.

Dude, LOOK at the photos.

  forrealtho

[dmel75]

Just for kicks, what is the proper voltage I need to be looking for? I've used a voltmeter but it's been a LOOOOOONG time ago and it was just for battery checking for RC cars.

Dude, LOOK at the photos.

*SMACKS HEAD - HARD*
So, just connect the DMM to the 5v and GRND and look for 5v on the DMM right?

Sorry, pretty new to this part of arcade stuff.

[SirPeale]

You're not looking for spot-on numbers - they'll almost never happen.  What you're looking for is acceptable ones.  If your +5VDC is reading 5.18 volts, that's /quite/ acceptable.  If it's only reading +3.4VDC, that is NOT.

And whereas you can check the voltage on the power supply as a first step, you should always measure your voltages on the board itself. 

You'll always lose some in the harness and in the connections, that's to be expected.  How MUCH you lose is a matter of course.  If you read +5.2VDC on the power supply, and +5.1VDC on the board, that's acceptable loss.  If you read +5.2VDC on the power supply and only 4.7VDC on the board, start looking for why there's that huge drop.  Broken solder joints, oxidized connections, burnt headers - all reasons why that can happen.

The most valuable tool that you have in your disposal (besides your meter) is your eyes.  Keep them open. 

[dmel75]

I put the DMM on the PCB cage and got 5.14v in the places I expected to see it. I guess I need to start working up the chain now. Symptoms are still the same: Powers on, total red screen, no activity or sound, occasionally (1 out of 10 or so) on a power up I'll see some Gorf play but hear no sound.

[SirPeale]

Other things to try is to reseat any socketed chips on the board.  Press down lightly on them.  If you hear them crunch a little bit, they've come out of their socket a bit.  Do that for all of them.  Failing that you may need to pop them out slightly and reseat them.

Use a jewelers screwdriver to pop the chip out at both ends.  Do it SLOWLY.  Do it GENTLY.    I wouldn't pop it out all the way, just about 1/2 way, then push it back in.

[RayB]

Don't do that with the power on.

[dmel75]

I spent some time cleaning the PCB/Cage last night, after checking voltages and finding them to be ok I though it was time to do a little cleaning. I used the sink and the sprayer attachment and just sprayed the PCB cage down and then wiped down all the PCB's. I set those aside to dry and I went back to try and find out more information on the monitor in this cabinet. From what I can gather it's a Wells Gardner K4605/6-5804. Since I'm only getting a solid red screen I thought I should inspect it to see if I could find anything wrong. I did find one thing that looked a bit alarming. In the picture below you can see a long, tan colored 'thingy' and nearby it on the top side of the board there is a bit of white discoloration across the PCB, almost as if it got fried sometime in the past. This 'thingy' is only connected to the PCB on one side, it's connected to the board on the bottom but the top of it is free and it can be moved slightly, but without removing the monitor I cannot see if that is intentional or if it's a break. Thoughts?

The first two pics are of the monitor item in question, the bottom pictures are the PCB cage after cleaning, what a difference!

[SirPeale]

That's a resistor.  A big one.  I don't think anything burned, it just looks like heat over the course of 20 something years discoloured the PCB.

Original caps, monitor could use capping.

Let's see a picture of the red screen.  I bet it's a gameboard issue.

After you washed those boards, did you do anything special besides hand towel them off?

I like to put them in an oven preheated @ the lowest possible setting, then turn the oven off and let it sit in there.  Any residual water will evaporate.

[dmel75]

That's a resistor.  A big one.  I don't think anything burned, it just looks like heat over the course of 20 something years discoloured the PCB.

Original caps, monitor could use capping.

Let's see a picture of the red screen.  I bet it's a gameboard issue.

After you washed those boards, did you do anything special besides hand towel them off?

I like to put them in an oven preheated @ the lowest possible setting, then turn the oven off and let it sit in there.  Any residual water will evaporate.

Nope, I didn't really 'wash' the boards, I washed the PCB chassis with a lot of water, it came out really clean. The PCB's themselves didn't need much more than a brushing off so I used an old soft paint brush and went over them real well and then had a 'very' lightly damp soft towel and just dabbed at them a bit. They look clean as a whistle. (see pic below) I also took a pencil eraser to all the gold contacts on the bottom and cleaned those up. I used a hairdryer to thoroughly dry out the PCB chassis (lots of water came out) and then made sure to leave everything out overnight. This morning I checked for water and then plugged the PCB's into the chassis but I have not connected it to the machine again yet. I put the whole assembly back out in my shop for the day. It's pretty hot in Jackson, MS today so I figure any residual water will be gone by this evening when I plan to plug it up and try again.  Is it normal for a resistor like that to only be connected on one side?

[Mauzy]

Is it normal for a resistor like that to only be connected on one side?

You mean one of the two legs is just hanging, disconnected? To that, I would have to say no, that isn't normal.

[SirPeale]

Is it normal for a resistor like that to only be connected on one side?

You mean one of the two legs is just hanging, disconnected? To that, I would have to say no, that isn't normal.

DEFINITELY not normal.  Resistors have two legs.  Maybe it did burn up a bit!

[dmel75]

Yeah, it's definitely got one leg, (the one at the top of the resistor in that picture) that's not connected. Is this something I can replace or do I need to get a new monitor chassis/card set?

[SirPeale]

I don't know if YOU  can replace it (you haven't specified your soldering skills) but it most certainly can be replaced!

Of course afterward you'll have to figure out what happened to it.  Very strange for a LEG to burn up, usually the whole thing cooks.

[dmel75]

I can solder fairly well enough do get this done. Just need to figure out the actual part no. and try and order it's modern day equivalent. I can't quite read anything other than 100ohm and 5%5W.

[SirPeale]

I can't quite read anything other than 100ohm and 5%5W.

That's all the info you need.  It's a 100 ohm resistor @ 5 Watts.

Expensive to ship JUST that resistor, unless you can find someone that'll drop it in a padded envelope @ standard 1st class rates.  Or wait until you find other stuff that needs to be ordered.

[SirPeale]

Here.  I think.

http://mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?N=4141081+4294576007+4294648889+4294741869

Guessing as to the resistor type.

[dmel75]

Well, tonight I'm going to plug up the freshly cleaned and scrubbed PCB/Cards and see if the red-screen-of-death goes away. If it does not then I think I may look at buying a new monitor chassis for the WG K4605. It at least needs a recap either way.

On that note, is there ANYthing that can be done about screen burn? This monitor has some, not much, but it's definitely there.

[Mauzy]

Screen burn can only be remedied with a new tube.

Wait until you can replace that resistor (or at least reconnect whats there) to go buying new chassis. That could be one of those cases of a $3 fix bringing a machine back to life (though the red screen does sound like a board issue...)

[Kevin Mullins]

K4600's like any other monitor of that age is gonna have bad solder joints. A higher wattage resistor like that is a prime place for that to happen. So the leg may have had the joys of corrosion/solder joint/arcing and finally the leg gave way. (burnt itself right off)

#1 thing is to get the game to play "blind" at least.....then move onto the monitor. (which most certainly will needs some TLC)
Those vertical cards that plug into the main chassis are also notorious for bad solder joints where they plug in.
Red screens is signs of life on the monitor, more of a reason to be concerned with the game boards right now.

[SirPeale]

From what it sounds like, you're FAR away from having to buy a whole new chassis.  Sounds like the one you have just needs a little work.

Recap (not cap KIT because they often don't have /all/ the caps, and they /all/ (except the really big one) need replacing.  Retouch every solder joint on the board, particularly on the daughter card connectors and the flyback.

As said, the only cure for screen burn is a replacement tube.  You may find a compatible one on the side of the road, or at a recycle center.  Me, I have a TV repair place up the road from me that will let me have whatever I want because then /they/ don't have to pay the disposal fees.

I've been told that this project encompasses all the caps on a K4600, but I haven't tested that myself.  This list did come from a trusted source, so take that as you will:

http://www.mouser.com/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=1B0C09F6B6 

Add your resistor to that list and that's a starting point.  Also if there are any electrolytic caps on the Gorf board, you may want to make a list of them and add them to the order.  After all this time it would not surprise me that they need replacing too.

[dmel75]

Cleanup and tear down slowly progressing. Took out a few more pieces last night to clean. I also spent some time and labeled a lot of little wires so when the wiring harness is ready to go back in I will actually be able to hook it all back up. =) The joystick parts and 25c plates went thru the dishwasher and came out looking very nice. Some of the aluminum parts are going to require a good steel wool or light sanding to get them looking new. The marquee is in fine shape minus a few small spots on the back where the screen printing has come off. These spots are very noticeable, does anyone know if painting over these spots with a matched paint would be ok or would that just show up as dark spots when backlit?

[dmel75]

Just found this Gorf info site: http://www.gorf.info/  Has some nice info on the scoring lamps and the difference in color between using LED vs Incandescent.

[Spyridon]

Just found this Gorf info site: http://www.gorf.info/  Has some nice info on the scoring lamps and the difference in color between using LED vs Incandescent.

I like the soft glow of the original better

[Spyridon]

What is the serial number on your Gorf?  I'm guessing it's a lower number as you still have the speaker slots in the piece above the control panel.

[dmel75]

Well, I'm not sure. Where in the cab do you find the serial #? I took these pics right when I got it and have found the #37 in different parts of the cabinet. I didn't know if that was the serial # or the person doing the construction/inspection when it was made.

[Mauzy]

The tag that says "GOR UP" and "USA" also has the serial on it. Yours looks to be 13034. That was standard Midway practice back in those days. Pacs, Ms Pacs, Galaxian, Galaga, etc had similar tags.

[dmel75]

Spyridon, what serial is yours. ? Do you know why they made the speaker slot change?

[Spyridon]

Spyridon, what serial is yours. ? Do you know why they made the speaker slot change?

Mine is 16886



I'm not sure when they made the switch.

[dmel75]

Found replacement bulbs today. As far as I know they're all burned out. I think these are all the types of bulbs in a Gorf upright. Found the large marquee bulbs at Target and the other smaller bulbs for the side light panel and joystick at Autozone, thanks for the tip Spyridon!

[Spyridon]

My marquee just had standard light bulbs in them.  25W for the upper and 15W for the lowers.  Although, looking at the manual, the bulbs are in the shape of the one you picked up.  Never noticed that before.

[dmel75]

Ok, now that the cabinet is gutted and ready for painting I decided to give the PCB a shot again. I set everything up in a testing setup and tried again but got the same results. By the way, the previously mentioned resistor that I thought was broken turned out to be ok after inspecting it closer.

I took a Youtube video in hopes that maybe someone else seeing what was going on would help. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNntrX3KKsk[/youtube] Take a look and if you have any ideas please let me know!!

[Spyridon]

You should try to save that side art.  Mask it off while you work on the rest of the cab sides.  It looks to be in good shape and the only repro stuff available is really not the right color.

[dmel75]

You should try to save that side art.  Mask it off while you work on the rest of the cab sides.  It looks to be in good shape and the only repro stuff available is really not the right color.

Yeah, I've been going back and forth on what to do as far as painting. The art is in really good shape so I thought of getting a small can of matched-color Valspar (gloss, semigloss?) paint from home depot and just touching up the nicks and scrapes here and there. There are really only a couple of spots where the wood is damaged and those are very small and close to the t-molding. There is a definite 'patina' on the paint, you can see that the clear coat over the paint has darkened over the years so I'm hoping to take a paint chip from an area with this 'aged' color to get a match from. The inside area near the bezel/monitor/speakers is really just in need of a good cleaning. I think if I replace t-molding and just really scrub it down everywhere else it will look great. My goal is to have the cabinet in as close to original and restored shape as possible. I can't find a good reproduction CP like the one ThisOldGame did (although he says he may do another run sometime.) I found a CP overlay for Gorf on eBay but I'm not sure how it would look. http://cgi.ebay.com/GORF-PANEL-OVERLAY-STICKER_W0QQitemZ370181846422QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item56308eb596&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

[Spyridon]

TOG is out of them? 

I would avoid that Willis control panel overlay.  I'd rather stay with the one you have than put that on. 

[Level42]

Yes it comes with mounting hardware.

[dmel75]

Yes it comes with mounting hardware.

Not sure I follow you....what comes with mounting hardware?

[Level42]

Oops....posted in wrong thread. Please ignore !

[dmel75]

Started trying to match paint, got a mix of latex flat Valspar at Lowes, it's close but you can definitely see the difference.



On another note, I cannot figure out my PCB issues, does anyone out there know of anyone that can repair/diagnose a Gorf PCB?
Scratch that, just bought a known good, tested PCB set and chassis from eBay, should be here in a few days. Other work on the cabinet has slowed to a crawl with the 100 degree days we've had here it's JUST TOO DARNED HOT to work in the shop. Even at 9pm it's 91 outside!

[dmel75]

New PCB set came in today - IT WORKED!!!! Game fired right up, didn't have speakers so I could not verify the sound but the monitor looked GREAT! Woooo! Now on to woodwork/restoration/paint.

[dmel75]

Tested the original board set & chassis by swapping out one board at a time. Verified that the culprit in the original board set was the "CPU Board." I'm fairly sure that Gorf and Wizard of Wor used the same CPU board so if I can find another CPU board from Gorf or WOW then I'll stash that set away so I'll have two working board sets. In the meantime, it's still been dreadfully hot which means work on the cabinet has progressed at a crawl. I just stripped down the old coin door and it's ready for paint. I've received new t-molding and I've decided not to entirely re-paint. I'll just clean and touch up the cabinet since the artwork is in such good shape. Next steps will be to get a better paint match (oil-based) for the top of the cabinet, touch up and begin reassembly. The only thing I'm not really sure about at this point is the control panel. Since This Old Game is not doing any more Gorf panels at the moment I believe my only option now is to thoroughly clean and reassemble it and hope to find a cleaner one sometime in the future.

[Spyridon]

Hopefully TOG will do another run of control panels.  They really are spectacular.

Also, check out my Gorf restore and look at my old panel.  If it is better than yours (probably not), you can have it.

[IG-88]

I know you got your new working PCB set, but perhaps you can send in your non-workng CPU board to one of these guys:

http://tinyurl.com/mbuzhn

http://tinyurl.com/mckbpv

http://tinyurl.com/58fnf

I can vouch for the 1st & 3rd one. Haven't heard anything bad about the middle one tho.

[dmel75]

Hopefully TOG will do another run of control panels.  They really are spectacular.

Also, check out my Gorf restore and look at my old panel.  If it is better than yours (probably not), you can have it.

Thanks so much, very generous. After looking at the pics, I think they're about the same. Maybe ToG will do another run sometime. I may try and repaint some of the lines and just lightly sand off the old, worn away text for now. Thanks again!