CRT look and feel on a LCD

[genesim]

Malenko and Cheffo,

Thats the spirit.   I mean this entirely.   KEEP IT FRIENDLY and I will do the same.    This bickering crap is going nowhere.

We can play the game of who can put who down the most and in the end, we all think we are more clever then the next guy.   But guess what, anyone surfing will think we ALL are a bunch of tools.

I may be the minority here(surprise suprise) but I am also on a nostalgia board.   It is the same as if I brought a gangsta rap artist to classic rock board...but of course if you flip it.   Who is right...it don't matter.

The instant people lose their tempers, the point is lost.

Hell I didn't read the caption.  Shoot me dead.   WHOOPEE.    I didn't really play alot of racing games because I didn't have the racing controls or I didn't care.   I liked Kaboom and Demon Attack anway....in other words..either I shoot or I hit back(hence me liking Slot Racers as rare exception).    Driving didn't kick in till much later.   But I knew what they looked like on a myriad of TV's and you ALL have to admit this theory is CRAP.

As for a complete thought before posting...uh I try...I really do, but then I walk away, and it is back there again.   I want to keep it fresh, and I do.   Sorry if it annoys you, but I do try.

Malenko what was I wrong about?

Cheffo what was I wrong about?  If there is something I didn't adress let me know now.   But you should read what I wrote instead of assuming.  

Geez I could be right on alot of this.    It could be that it wasn't that frickin' serious.    I have never came up with a definitive on arcade games.    But I do know about Atari and TV's were not blending.   Like Blanka said, it would have to be alot worse then that!   If the programmers didn't know this, then they were idiots and did it very very bad.

If you are happy with the way that things look on your LCD, then I think that is great.

And I am free to defend my view too.   Of course others feel they are justified to call me MORON and the like...but of course they are no more right then I.    Until you have the EXACT hardware...i.e. exact monitor that was in the original arcade(and even that is a compromise because you don't have the EXACT monitor the programmers used to put the original code on), then you have no superiority in what should or shouldn't be.

You believe CRT's look the best, that is fine.   But so what.   The glass can be half empty or half full.   It is all about perception.

By the way, just because blending did happen, doesn't mean it was programmed for it.  PERIOD.   How it was presented on 99 percent of the TV's is compelling evidence.    Blanka had a absolute spot on comment.   The blending I never saw exist and I bet if taken to a real vote, most would agree with me.   Most people saw those lines.    I actually asked other about this and the ones that cared to remember agreed with me.    Not just my friends..but all.    Atari fans were plenty.    But this picture that is posted here is pure fiction.

[Hoopz]

We have already seen that LCDs don't look like CRTs. Some people can't stand how the games look on LCDs. Some people don't care. Some people can't stand CRTs.

If you are happy with the way that things look on your LCD, then I think that is great. 

I say use what works best for you.  Some use PC monitors, while others use various types of arcade/presentation monitors, televisions (LCDs, tubes, B&W) etc.   What's best for me shouldn't affect anyone else.

There's only one person in these threads who can't get past the fact that people should be able to choose what they want without being labeled as Nazis, fascists, or saying it's a religion.  Arguing how the technology works is a separate argument from what's best for people to use.

[CheffoJeffo]

You believe CRT's look the best, that is fine.   But so what.   The glass can be half empty or half full.   It is all about perception.

Actually, I'm worried about what's in the glass ...

[genesim]

There's only one person in these threads who can't get past the fact that people should be able to choose what they want without being labeled as Nazis, fascists, or saying it's a religion.

Why are you lying?  That is not what I said.   You going to apologize before I prove you wrong?  I am giving you a chance.

Arguing how the technology works is a separate argument from what's best for people to use.

Some people can't seem to get this...hence people personal attacking me on my choice rather then discuss my points.

XXXXXXX

Actually, I'm worried about what's in the glass ...

Actually I worry about all of it.

[Hoopz]

You need to get the sand out of your vagina, Genesim.  Seriously.

[CheffoJeffo]

 Until you have the EXACT hardware...i.e. exact monitor that was in the original arcade(and even that is a compromise because you don't have the EXACT monitor the programmers used to put the original code on), then you have no superiority in what should or shouldn't be.

Um, I'm not sure which part of my prior postings confused you, but I *do*, in many cases, have the *exact* (read as precise, same, identical whatever) *physical* monitor used in my cabinets.

[Ginsu Victim]

You need to get the sand out of your vagina, Genesim.  Seriously.

 

[genesim]

Un no you don't because the EXACT would be the ones the developers used.

What do you not understand about the fact that no two CRT's are built the same?    What do you not understand about the fact that I am referring to ALL games and not just one(hence you saying...in many cases).   I am looking for authenticity spread across new..old...very new games.

An LCD is the least compromise IMHO.

xxxxxxxxx

Hoopz,

If I have a vagina then you have the ability to get a quote right.   Both of them are not likely.   Now is your ability to admit your mistake as plausible?   Stay tuned...

[Ginsu Victim]

I can't believe both sides of the argument have allowed another thread to continue like this.

Shame on both sides.

[ChadTower]

I can't believe both sides of the argument have allowed another thread to continue like this.

Shame on both sides.

[CheffoJeffo]

Un no you don't because the EXACT would be the ones the developers used.

But, still, it puts me at least a dozen steps closer than someone who, say, doesn't have that particularly monitor (someone, say, like *you*).

FWIW, I am starting to understand you now ... you don't seems to know that these guys didn't have actual cabinets in their offices and that some of them were coding on mainframes, then looking at the mockups and adjusting the artwork, controls and code.

Please, read a couple of articles about how these games were developed.

If I get a chance today, I'll see what is available online to present to you as proof, as opposed to things I have in print, seen in exhibits or gleaned from live conversations.

[Ginsu Victim]

I can't believe both sides of the argument have allowed another thread to continue like this.

Shame on both sides.

Dude, I'm trying not to be around today. So don't make this guy explode if I can't be around to witness it!

[Hoopz]

Oh, I'm sure that he'll do this again another time.  I think this is the 5th thread that he's done it in already.   

[genesim]

Alright, I quit.   I really really quit.

It isn't serving any purpose.   I did like exposing the Atari 2600 myth and I do liken it to some arcade beliefs.

But convincing some is next to impossible.

I don't want this thread or other deleted and I wish some would not take my fever/passion for the material so personally.

Starting off with Beligerant Koolaid Man is not constructive and misquoting things and implying that I distinctly called anyone a Nazi or KKK member is more damaging.

But hey saying I have a Vagina is not as bad.   I love them and wish I had one on my body.   Then I would waste my time playing video games so much...I certaintly wouldn't be arguing dippy things like this where I accuse others of being pocket protectors and then proceed to act like the biggest nerd of all.

Aren't we all here for the same reason?   I know I get accused of being a troll but seriously I just like to debate.   But firstly I just get intrigued by the subject matter.  

Arcade games have become a huge part of my life and most of my CRT debating is because it just isn't practical for my use.

With that, I will tell you what makes me madder then anything on this board.   I don't care who likes it...WINDOWS VISTA can censored by saint.   I am currently getting all my roms off the harddrive and as soon as I get everything in order, it goes bye bye.

Now for those that want to call me names after this post...cool.  I am like Godzilla with little tank bullets and missles...I will eat them and let them bounce off of me.   My real foe is that Ghidra that I like to call Vista!  Glitchy mo fo..I don't have the patience, and I am not ashamed.

As for me "doing it again"...takes two to tango...wait in my case I got alot of partners...but hey I made this happen right?  I was all alone.   yeah right.  

xxxx

FWIW, I am starting to understand you now ... you don't seems to know that these guys didn't have actual cabinets in their offices and that some of them were coding on mainframes, then looking at the mockups and adjusting the artwork, controls and code.

Yes I get it very much....the problem...the end result is still stair stepping graphics that were intentionally made boxy because its all they had.   HOOFPRINTS not ZEBRAS.   WORD

but yeah give me a link.  I always like interesting articles...

[Hoopz]

Alright, I quit.   I really really quit.

If someone's making book, I got the under on this one.

Starting off with Beligerant Koolaid Man is not constructive and misquoting things and implying that I distinctly called anyone a Nazi or KKK member is more damaging.

Oddly enough, I didn't mention your Klan reference.  You did it the first time and brought it up again.  Guilty conscience?

Aren't we all here for the same reason?   I know I get accused of being a troll but seriously I just like to debate.  

That sounds like someone you claim that you aren't....  And please reference the difference between arguing and debating.  You aren't debating.

[CheffoJeffo]

What do you not understand about the fact that no two CRT's are built the same?    What do you not understand about the fact that I am referring to ALL games and not just one(hence you saying...in many cases).   I am looking for authenticity spread across new..old...very new games.

Before I consider breaking two tubes to count the stripes of phosphor, what you mean when you say this ? Obviously, there are manufacturing differences built into everything.

For monitors, however, to make sure that things look the same (or "similar enough"), there are standard protocols for tuning the monitor to match. Things like convergence to be adjusted. For my part, I had always assumed that was we had all of those cool controls.

Now, what does come out of your statement that *is* interesting is that you are looking for *one* display technology to play all of the games that *you* want to play. 

You will not get authenticity over that spread, at least not by any reasonable definition, but you can get an acceptable experience across that range.

Based on the majority of your posts, this has never been your argument here. Blanka has made the argument (IIRC) that LCD was better for what he wanted and nobody faulted him. Other folks who have wanted to watch DVDs in their cabs have chosen "non-authentic" displays and people don't argue because their intentions were different. You have always claimed that CRTs are not authentic (hell, you even just told me that my arcade CRTs, as originally shipped with the games aren't authentic enough for me to have a valid opinion).

If I wanted to play Major Havoc and Doom 3 on the same cabinet, then, yeah, I might well go for an LCD.

Of course, if I was running Doom 3 in a Major Havoc cab, I would have to shoot myself in the head.

 

EDIT: for typos due to poor C&P ... gotta love being able to edit 

EDIT AGAIN: Because I can! 

[RayB]

I don't get why there's such long diatribes being posted regarding such a simple issue ... 

Um, has anyone bothered to check the emulator and see if there's an interpolation option that can be turned off or set to various settings? Maybe it's just blending it too much compared to the effect a TV does.

[CheffoJeffo]

As for me "doing it again"...takes two to tango...wait in my case I got alot of partners...but hey I made this happen right?  I was all alone.   yeah right.   

C'mon, let's be very clear and give credit where credit is due.

I at least helped push you into totally spazzing out

Works everytime !

 

And you never fail to disappoint.

 

You can't be bothered to understand the specifics enough to do research or post coherently (which is why people have to continually ask WTF you mean), then you get so painfully upset by getting caught in obvious factual inaccuracies that you freak out and tell people that they are the ones who don't understand and then continue to make the same mistakes and tell people to get over it.

Totally awesome to watch.

 

[Malenko]

Also what is clever but also a bald faced lie is the screenshot.   

Its BOLD faced lie, not BALD

This whole pitiful arguement about CRT's being better in this particular capacity has got to be the biggest lie on the internet.

better is a matter of preference. so there is no right or wrong. This whole debacle started because you keep saying LCDs show the code better or some other ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- like that

Maybe the only way to settle this is for me to go out and take tons of pictures.   Compare it myself.   I already have with the local place that has Pacman and I compared the differences which do not exist at all.   Most of this is starting to look like the complete lie that it is.

I cant honestly see you doing any sort of research other then maybe a quick google to pretend you know what you're talking about. Take pictures , just dont use a 1 megapixel camera phone

But rest assured, for a fact the Atari 2600 and the "blending" does not exist.   Bud I was there playing with crappy tv's going through crappy ATANNAE connections!   Not RF as the author puts it.    You needed a converter box for the original old TV's.   Remember switching back and forth?

I used RF on my 2600 and while the blending isnt as good as in the LCD "simulator" it was there. I dunno what an atannae is, unless you meant antennae. My RF converter screwed into a little tube and the little tube had 2 forks on it. I cant remember what it was called, this was over 25 years ago for me

I digress, just wanted to get another post in before the lock/move to post hell

such hostility....

why does everyone Hate LCDs so much?  my cabinet has an LCD monitor and it looks great.....is that the problem?  do you guys want your games to look blurry and crappy?  why would anyone try to emulate the look of a CRT on an LCD? that just makes no sense...and whatever that guy was doing doesn't look like any CRT monitor that i have seen.

the LCD monitors have such a nice clean picture to them...why anyone would want anything less than that makes no sense to me.

Whaaaaaa? I LOVE my 61" Samsung LCD HDTV and I LOVE my 22"Samsung LCD PC monitor, beautiful picture on both an the HD looks flat out amazing. However, I PREFER my arcade montior in my MAME rig as opposed to a LCD with any sort  of filter.

By the way, just because blending did happen, doesn't mean it was programmed for it.  PERIOD.   

just be cause it wasnt programmed into the code doesnt mean it wasnt accounted for, thats another thing you cant seem to grasp. Who programs for a display and doesnt find out what the end product will look like on 99% of the displays?

Actually, I'm worried about what's in the glass ...

We are followers of jimmy jones, standing in the kool aid line.....

excellent double reference cheffo!

There's only one person in these threads who can't get past the fact that people should be able to choose what they want without being labeled as Nazis, fascists, or saying it's a religion.

Why are you lying?  That is not what I said.   You going to apologize before I prove you wrong?  I am giving you a chance.

Arguing how the technology works is a separate argument from what's best for people to use.

Some people can't seem to get this...hence people personal attacking me on my choice rather then discuss my points.

XXXXXXX

Actually, I'm worried about what's in the glass ...

Actually I worry about all of it.

-3 to your QuoteFu gensism

sweet I think this is my longest post ever. And unlike you Genesism, I actually do take the time to read everything BEFORE posting *and I tend to use spell check too!*

I don't get why there's such long diatribes being posted regarding such a simple issue ... 

Um, has anyone bothered to check the emulator and see if there's an interpolation option that can be turned off or set to various settings? Maybe it's just blending it too much compared to the effect a TV does.

there is no room for logic in this thread, get out

HOOFPRINTS not ZEBRAS.   WORD

Man thats still the most retarded saying Ive read on these boards.......

You ever think it MIGHT be an Okapi? Wait, you prolly say they dont exist and when they evolved your god of choice wanted round stripes.

[Cakemeister]

Also what is clever but also a bald faced lie is the screenshot.   

Its BOLD faced lie, not BALD

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_the_correct_term_'bold_face_lie'_or_'bald_faced_lie'_or_another_variation

 

[Malenko]

Also what is clever but also a bald faced lie is the screenshot.   

Its BOLD faced lie, not BALD

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_the_correct_term_'bold_face_lie'_or_'bald_faced_lie'_or_another_variation

 

how odd google has that as a first result, lol
I was told in my youth it was bare faced, then I practically accosted by my English teacher in like 7th grade and he told me it was bold. Ive never seen Bald faced, because well, heads are bald not faces...they're clean shaved
I digress, the rest of what I quoted was the important stuff =)

[CheffoJeffo]

Ive never seen Bald faced, because well, heads are bald not faces...they're clean shaved

Not mine ... which may have been genesim's point about me the whole time !

EDIT: Oh, darn, hoist by my own petard about accuracy ... my head *is* bald but my face is neither bald nor clean-shaven. 

[genesim]

And unlike you Genesism, I actually do take the time to read everything BEFORE posting  *and I tend to use spell check too!*

That would be antenna which is what the "forks" were originally made for.

Evidently you do have stunning attention to detail though.  You and Cheffo make a great team.

Oops...I am not here.  But seriously guys, thank you for being civilized.   It shows real class.

[CheffoJeffo]

You and Cheffo make a great team.

Hey, I think that you and I make a great team ... how else could your incorrect elitist drivel become entertainment gold ?

[genesim]

So in other words you want this to continue?  I was trying to end it, but I won't sit around and have you crap talking like you actually won something. 

I call it a stalemate to stop the problem.   

[CheffoJeffo]

I call it a stalemate to stop the problem.   

The only thing that is stale is your argument ...

You've run out of things that haven't been refuted yet.

 

[Hoopz]

Let's post a poll to see who won. 

[CheffoJeffo]

WTF is texasmame ?

[Malenko]

That would be antenna which is what the "forks" were originally made for.

Evidently you do have stunning attention to detail though.  You and Cheffo make a great team.

Oops...I am not here.  But seriously guys, thank you for being civilized.   It shows real class.

The twin leads (I called them forks the first time, but I just remembered what they were called) weren't on the TV, the screws were/are. Thanks for the compliment, I think you and Tommy would make a great team and could be our rivals, cool?

And you cant hook up the Atari through (notice I said THROUGH and not IN TANDEM) the antenna unless you somehow hooked up a broadcast then tuned the TV into the broadcast.....instead of that I used a Female Balum Adapter, to which the Atari had a box screwed into it.

The twin leads were made to screw into the TV where the antenna used to go in order to replace it and make the TV "cable ready"

do you know the difference between this:


and this:


and I say we all win when you stop posting, kk thnx bai!

[CheffoJeffo]

I called them forks the first time

Don't forget that Cheffo knows about cutlery ... just saying ... 

[RandyT]

I don't care what anyone says.  I used to really get ticked at those printed representations of games on the backs of the Activision boxes.  When I was shopping for a game, I wanted to see what it was really going to look like, not an "artist's rendition".  The actual games always looked better than that on the screen.  A lot of companies knew this, and showed photos.  But for some reason, Activision never did and it was always a crapshoot as to what you would see when you got it home.  At least that's how I recall it today.....

RandyT

[genesim]

Little Cheffo...ok I tried.

First of all Hoopz, the problem is we have the M.O.B. so the poll is obviously tilted.   We have a religion, and there is no getting away from it.

Cheffo,

Stale.    The problem is that you cannot even refute anything I have said.  You are a walking talking vs of an empty head.    You run around claiming your victory when you haven't even tackled my points.

But hey, I got a challenge...name one..name ten, and as usual I will shoot you down completely.   Don't just say it...give examples.

But here is one for starters.  The only thing you THINK you got me on was refresh rates, and I told you how it was done.   Answer...you ignored it like the coward you are from the first time I called it.

Still...lets keep going.   This is going to be fun.   You learned who Jack is yet..or are you going give me those fantastical consequences.    


Malenko,

I am going to help you ok.  ANTENNA INPUT Einstein.   What you have pictured doesn't have a switch box does it.  BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzz  wrong again.     Go back and READ.   

Ooooh you got me there.    GEE I DIDN'T know the screws were on the TV??? UH HUH  WOW.   We sure got some kind of people around here.  First Hoopz comes up with his nice explanation to me on the character in a Few Good Men(gotta love that one) then you with your nice bald correction and misquote...now this.   Cheffo being a clown all the way around who came up with the brilliant comeback to begin with.

You guys gotta stop throwing these softballs.   You might cause me to laugh to death.   

[genesim]

I don't care what anyone says.  I used to really get ticked at those printed representations of games on the backs of the Activision boxes.  When I was shopping for a game, I wanted to see what it was really going to look like, not an "artist's rendition".  The actual games always looked better than that on the screen.  A lot of companies knew this, and showed photos.  But for some reason, Activision never did and it was always a crapshoot as to what you would see when you got it home.  At least that's how I recall it today.....

RandyT

Dude you must have been going through an LCD.   Do you know how much was put into that code!!   It was all there...I saw it.   Through my andtanny that I had going directly to my Atari...why cause I was told it was so....   What a bunch of Malenko.

[RandyT]

Dude you must have been going through an LCD.   Do you know how much was put into that code!!   It was all there...I saw it.   Through my andtanny that I had going directly to my Atari...why cause I was told it was so....   What a bunch of Malenko.

You know, genesim, attention always feels better when it's given by those who actually care about you.....

[Namco]

They were called 75-300 ohm matching transformers. If you had rabbit ears with the "forks" on them and a newer TV, you needed one to push it onto the coaxial input of your TV. The crappy video game switches (and commodore 64 switch) had the "forks" on them usually. I used to end up with a drawer full of these things.



Apparently Genesim had gold-plated connectors or HDMI back then, because I remember looking at a blurry-ass screen as a kid playing C64 and Odyssey 2 games. 

[genesim]

RandyT,

You mean you don't care?   You sure have given me every sign....  Was it the LCD?   Or the idea that you could be wrong??   Please tell me how to get even more of your approval.   You have to admit that I have given every indication that I need it.  

Namco,

You seem to be sincere.   I was merely being sarcastic with these guys...an unending war devoid of sensible discussion.   My point with switch box was that it originally was to go into the antenna posts and that is how I remember it.   

And I can tell you right now that I absolutely saw the lines.   And I played at friends houses that way for years.  Obviously me and Blanka are liars I guess.   Blurry is one thing, but totally blending, the evidence does not support it at all.   Odyssey is not Atari.   C64 is a POOR example because there was nothing like that on its screen!

[CheffoJeffo]

But here is one for starters.  The only thing you THINK you got me on was refresh rates, and I told you how it was done.   Answer...you ignored it like the coward you are from the first time I called it.

This is EXACTLY why I love that saint kept the old thread -- the last several times that you unleashed, there was no evidence left.

Displays were more then likely made in relationship to the LIMITATIONS of the original code, and not the other way around.

Wrong.

Xiaou2,

By the way are you ever going to answer my direct question about pixel distortion from center to the outside?

The only thing that is noticed is the reflections from the curved surface, and a
slight depth perception.   A 19"  CRT viewed at 2ft away with only a slight
round face leads very little to no Illusion related distortions.

 

Oops.

That isn't even close to an answer.   I am talking about the mechanics of the Electron beam and the physics of time and space.   He gives me an answer on the curved surface of the screen...

It was argued that because the beams were shot at angles.. it would cause distortions.
The isnt really all that true... because its not the beam you are seeing.  You are seeing
a Glowing Phosphor Dot light up.   The angle of the beam that Hits the Phosphor
matters very little.  In fact, the Shadowmask is Designed for just that purpose.
The mask isnt simply a mesh.  Its a 3d structure.  The rear of the mask has little
cups routed out on the rear, which catches the beams overspill on both the left
and right  angled gun beams.

And, while Xiaou2 and I agree with less frequency than you and I do, he's right.

Darn.

And for the last time THE BEAM OF LIGHT is what I am speaking about.

And I say "there is no beam of light", because there isn't.  

Slip of that legendary tongue ...

Quote from: genesim on April 26, 2009, 09:03:40 PM
But do I know the difference, are you frickin' kidding me?

Quote from: genesim on April 27, 2009, 05:57:21 AM
Ooops I meant to say draws the screen 15 times per second.

You were saying ?

Hmmm ...

And that's just from the past few days ... shall we reach back and see how you think that there is no evidence that Tron Light Cycles is meant to be played with a 4-way digital joystick ?

Use your ---smurfing--- head man, people are ignoring you left and right, and anytime you post something as a fact, it gets thrown back in your face.

And, still, nobody knows what the hell you are arguing about.

But I am happy to keep kicking your ass.

EDIT: For grammar ... nice to be able to fix those little glitches!

EDIT AGAIN: Missed an 's' in 'nobody knows what the hell you are talking about'

[genesim]

Cheffo,

Yet again another shining example of how you are masking what actually happened.

No RIGHT..on occasion.   Every example is different.    Monitors were beyond the original code.   This much you cannot deny..and you didn't.

next..

Uh Xiaou2 still didn't answer my question and you seem to continue to be DIM to this.   You don't even know what I am talking about.   Here is a grasp of it.   The original monitors have a curve.   Pixel distortion.   The code is uniform.

Am I getting through here??  This is one example.  You are impossible to explain to.    So ignorant, that you wouldn't have even posted if you knew what I was saying.

next...

The electron beam does cause a distortion of color because even with a mask it is not perfect.    That and the issues with color bleeding.   Greatly reduced...always there.   Why...now listen hard.   BECAUSE THE PIXELS ARE NOT INDEPENDENT OF EACH OTHER.    Again a concept that you cannot and will not understand.

next..

What a tool...so you post that stupid beam of light thing again.   Wow even after I warned you.  What good is that if I admitted my mistake?  You obviously have still not learned how to read.

next..

IF THERE WAS A 15hz monitor.   I wasn't wrong was I.   Another "kicking your ass" dillusion.

next..

The Tron light cycle was meant to be played 4 way hence the restrictor.   And you think it wasn't?   The "give" was for the spider level and cone.   HMMMMMM   the Koolaid man strikes again.   This was really too easy.

[genesim]

Yeah it must be nice to change your story.   Don't worry, that is what quotes will be for in the future and you can try to edit all you want.

Oh and for sure all that throwing in my face...it was just blinding. 

[genesim]

*chirp* *chirp*