Star Wars - fully working!

[Spyridon]

Now that is definitely optional but good to have.  I use a long screwdriver with a heavy wire, one end clipped to the screwdriver shaft and the other to the metal frame, then slide the flathead tip under the cap to the anode clip.  You do need to be mindful of where your hands are but it does work fine and I know a lot of good techs who do it that way on location.

Yeah, I've used that setup many times for standard monitors (I have this), but don't you need to put a series of resistors in place when doing that on a vector monitor? 

See this thread:
Discharge a Vector monitor same as a Raster?

[ChadTower]

Yeah, I've used that setup many times for standard monitors (I have this), but don't you need to put a series of resistors in place when doing that on a vector monitor? 

See this thread:
Discharge a Vector monitor same as a Raster?

Yes absolutely you're right - we even addressed this in this thread.     I forgot to mention that since I have been doing my Berzerk lately and have probably discharged that tube 100 times in the past two weeks.  Good catch. 

EDIT:  I should mention that is specific to discharging to the frame.  If you discharge to something else you don't need it.  Sometimes for giggles I discharge into the cold water supply line above my workbench or the concrete basement floor. 

[orion]

Now that is definitely optional but good to have.  I use a long screwdriver with a heavy wire, one end clipped to the screwdriver shaft and the other to the metal frame, then slide the flathead tip under the cap to the anode clip.  You do need to be mindful of where your hands are but it does work fine and I know a lot of good techs who do it that way on location.

FWIW, that POP you read about doesn't always happen.  In fact I've never seen it happen.  The most I've seen is a little blue spark when discharging the tube before putting the anode back on (yes, always discharge a second time).  Don't be surprised if you see nothing visible at all.

That's all I had been using when discharging monitors. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't those high voltage probes have the capacity to hook into a multimeter so you can see how much voltage has been discharged? That's a cool feature to have I think. I had a G07 that would make a noticeable POP and spark every time I discharged it and it would do that even after the thing had been off for a few hours. (It's the one that always used to like to bite me) I don't know if that's an inherent trait of G07's (which I know don't self discharge) in general or just that particular one (which went bye-bye after I accidentally broke its neck one day)

[ChadTower]

That's all I had been using when discharging monitors. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't those high voltage probes have the capacity to hook into a multimeter so you can see how much voltage has been discharged?

Yeah, that's what it does, it plugs into the DMM, you connect the other lead to the frame, and you can read the voltage decreasing on the DMM display.  I'm betting the big part of the probe is just a resistor similar to what the manual process uses but is designed to protect the DMM as well as the frame mount components.

[FrizzleFried]

Damn... i just noticed this thread.  I am very sorry you're having issues Spyridon... I swear to you that I didn't have a single issue since the monitor was rebuilt... even the neckboard,  while semi-loose,  didn't seem to be loose enough to fall off (which,  evidently was wrong).    Luckily the WG6100 is pretty easy to work on once you get the knack of it...

I will monitor this thread and hopefully you'll find it to be something very simple/cheap to fix...

 

[FrizzleFried]

BTW:  That WG comes out from behind... all WG's were hacked in to uprights and this one comes out easily if you remove the wood above the back door and slide it out backwards (I put a couple screws in to hold it in place for shipping,  so you'll want to remove those).

One plug and you can easily pull it.

[Spyridon]

BTW:  That WG comes out from behind... all WG's were hacked in to uprights and this one comes out easily if you remove the wood above the back door and slide it out backwards (I put a couple screws in to hold it in place for shipping,  so you'll want to remove those).

One plug and you can easily pull it.

Oh, that's good to know.  I was following the instruction in the manual and that had it coming out the front.

[Spyridon]

Damn... i just noticed this thread.  I am very sorry you're having issues Spyridon... I swear to you that I didn't have a single issue since the monitor was rebuilt... even the neckboard,  while semi-loose,  didn't seem to be loose enough to fall off (which,  evidently was wrong).    Luckily the WG6100 is pretty easy to work on once you get the knack of it...

I will monitor this thread and hopefully you'll find it to be something very simple/cheap to fix...

 

Yeah, I never questioned that you didn't have any issues.  I think it either just got banged around during shipping or it was just its time. 

[Ginsu Victim]

Damn... i just noticed this thread.

Really? Then why are you on page one of this thread discussing the issues?

Hey, the WG6100 has the piggy-back over-voltage protection installed...nice.

...and a Spaeth LV6100 low voltage mod...

EDIT: er...already discussed.

Wow!! That side art looks incredible!!

Nice work!

The reds are a bit faded on the other side (I don't have a pic right now), but overall it's in great shape.

Holy poo... I never even noticed that until you just pointed it out.  They're not a bit faded... they're damn near non-existent.  Glad there's not a ton of RED in the side art... sorry about that.

T-t-t-t-t bad Frizz....selling cabs with loose neckboards and faulty artwork. We all know (from KLOV) how Frizz feels about poor quality artwork......


 


 

I blame NAVL.  ---daisies--- loosened up the neckboard AND stole the red from the one side of the artwork.  They must have packed it next to a UV machine or something...

[FrizzleFried]

Damn... i just noticed this thread.

Really? Then why are you on page one of this thread discussing the issues?

The thread started out as a "Look what I got" thread... it evolved in to a "monitor issue" thread after I went on vacation on the morning of the 31st.   My posts prior to today were about the "artwork" of the cab as well as the fact that I'd installed a LV6100 to the monitor chassis during the rebuild... not the monitor issue.

[FrizzleFried]

Yeah, I never questioned that you didn't have any issues.  I think it either just got banged around during shipping or it was just its time. 

Yeah...doesn't make me feel any better though...

Oh, that's good to know.  I was following the instruction in the manual and that had it coming out the front.

The instructions in the manual are for AMPLIFONE monitors... no SW's came with WG's stock (from my recollection).

[Ginsu Victim]

The thread started out as a "Look what I got" thread... it evolved in to a "monitor issue" thread after I went on vacation on the morning of the 31st. 

The faulty neckboard issue started out being discussed right off the bat, the same day you posted. (March 27th)

Nevermind. I just read more...sorry mate

[FrizzleFried]

The thread started out as a "Look what I got" thread... it evolved in to a "monitor issue" thread after I went on vacation on the morning of the 31st. 

The faulty neckboard issue started out being discussed right off the bat, the same day you posted. (March 27th)

Uh...loose neckboard...

Reading comprehension troubles?

EDIT: Same here... 

[Level42]

The instructions in the manual are for AMPLIFONE monitors... no SW's came with WG's stock (from my recollection).

Correct.  19" in the upright, 25" in the cockpit. Anything else is not factory.

[Spyridon]

The instructions in the manual are for AMPLIFONE monitors... no SW's came with WG's stock (from my recollection).

Correct.  19" in the upright, 25" in the cockpit. Anything else is not factory.

I wasn't aware of that.  I thought Atari switched at some point. 

[Level42]

No they didn't.

They switched from WG _TO_ Amplifone, not the other way around. The WG performed badly and needed a number of revisions.

They also wanted a higher resolution and  higher slew-rate for SW.
SW was designed fot the Amplifone (or maybe the other way around)

The Amplifone monitor was designed by Atari (who had bought Amplifone instead of contracting them for the production of the monitors).
I've also read that WG couldn't produce enough vector monitors at the time.

There's a lot of info on Jed Margolin's site (who was the hardware designer of SW):

www.jedmargolin.com

Even if you don't understand the technical stuff, there's plenty of interesting trivia and facts in those documents.

[Spyridon]

Okay, back to this project.  I got my Fluke HV probe in and discharged the monitor.  I pulled then pulled the monitor out to make working on it much easier.



I first checked all of the transistors using my meter and they all 4 of the 6 were showing as bad.  Wait a minute...forgot to unplug them from the deflection board.  Try again.  This time all checked out as good.  Next I removed the deflection board to look for some bad solder joints.  Bingo...I think I found a problem. 

It may not be clear in the picture (had trouble getting good close up shots), but there is a definite gap between the soder and the board on the header pins circled.  I'm hopeing this could be the issue.

[Kevin Mullins]

The key thing to keep in mind when you find a trace burnt like that..... "something" caused it.

Where abouts on the board is that spot located?

[Spyridon]

The key thing to keep in mind when you find a trace burnt like that..... "something" caused it.

It's not burnt.  It was resoldered at some point and what looks like a burnt part in the photo is actually flux.  It appeard to be a cold solder joint.
 

[Kevin Mullins]

Yeah, I can see the flux.... just the way it looks like the trace curled up a bit makes it look like it "burnt". From an over current situation of sorts.
If it were just a cracked joint it wouldn't have done that.
And if someone soldered on it with a cracked joint and then that happened, well, you would think they would have noticed it.

Maybe it's just hard to tell in the pic. 

[Level42]

The key thing to keep in mind when you find a trace burnt like that..... "something" caused it.

I'll tell you what caused it: Terrible production quality....

If you compare it to the pics I added to this thread you can see that it's simple production issues all around.

They seriously screwed up on the 6100 PCBs.

The HV board seems to be the best of the three. I re-soldered every single soldering on the neckboard. I wanted to do the same thing on the deflection board, but the way the tracks responded to the re-soldering of the header connectors made me quickly change my mind.

O and Spyridon....looks like you need a new tube ?

[Spyridon]

O and Spyridon....looks like you need a new tube ?

It does have a burn in hole in the center.  You don't notice it while playing until the Death Star blows up.  Then it becomes obvious

[ChadTower]

You don't need a new tube... at some point it was run with the spot killer disabled... and now you have a spot.  Shouldn't be a problem unless you're super anal about that spot. 

I don't usually spend much time looking for cold joints.  I just start reflowing everything I can get the tip on and add some new solder to anything questionable.  Way too many will be undetectable by eye and you can head off the next failure by doing it now to everything else.

[Level42]

Well, seeing how perfect Spryridon's work is I'd assume he would find the spot annoying. I know I would.
And it's a standard CRT, nothing special about it.

OK, gotta have to learn how to converge a new one.

I'm kind of planning on making a video about it. It's really NOT that hard, you just have to have someone show it....

But I agree, if you can live with it, it's fine. First get the thing running I guess....

The thing about reflowing is that it won't help if you have breaks like these:


You will have to bridge the gap in some way. I used a piece of solid core wire for that. I simple looked to what that track went and made a large enough piece of wire to bridge the entire track.

[ChadTower]

Well, seeing how perfect Spryridon's work is I'd assume he would find the spot annoying. I know I would.
And it's a standard CRT, nothing special about it.

That a 100 degree tube, right?  Aren't the rasters almost all 90 degrees?  It's the Amp that uses 90 degree tubes, I think, not the WG.

[RayB]

Just don't play the game while standing in front of the monitor. The electrons will fly out of the spot and hit you, sucking you into the game.

[Level42]

Well, seeing how perfect Spryridon's work is I'd assume he would find the spot annoying. I know I would.
And it's a standard CRT, nothing special about it.

That a 100 degree tube, right?  Aren't the rasters almost all 90 degrees?  It's the Amp that uses 90 degree tubes, I think, not the WG.

So he gets a bit of pincushion, less noticeable than the burn-in dot.

I think it's more depending on age of the CRT. The more modern the CRT is, the more chance that it's a higher degree angle because tubes got shorter and shorter in time.

[ChadTower]

So he gets a bit of pincushion, less noticeable than the burn-in dot.

I'd rather have the dot.  It's better than spending 10 hours converging a color vector.  That yoke swap is a nightmare.

[Level42]

Well, my uncle taught me the ancient art of converging and .....it's not as bad as many people say.

Bad I agree, it's not for everyone...

The key is to work systematic and follow the steps like it's written in the Amplifone manual which is about the best explanation I've read.

Yes, I've done it a couple of times over but now I have the "feel".

However, I will have to do an Amplifone 19" CRT swap too and maybe I'll think different about it then....but I'm pretty sure I can do it....

[ChadTower]

Hell if you have a good amp chassis try it with a 27" just for giggles...   

[Spyridon]

Well, my uncle taught me the ancient art of converging and .....it's not as bad as many people say.

...I agree, it's not for everyone...

When is your next trip over here?

[Mauzy]

Just don't play the game while standing in front of the monitor. The electrons will fly out of the spot and hit you, sucking you into the game.

"My God! Its full of stars!!"

oh yes. that works on MANY levels 

[Level42]

Well, my uncle taught me the ancient art of converging and .....it's not as bad as many people say.

...I agree, it's not for everyone...

When is your next trip over here?

If you pay travel and expenses, the hours are free

[WunderCade]

...........It's better than spending 10 hours converging a color vector.  That yoke swap is a nightmare.

I wonder how the factories converge these crt's? It certainly isn't cost effective to spend hours on each unit, did they have some sort of special electronic equipment that handled the convergence quickly, or did factory workers do each one?

[Mauzy]

Is it harder to converge a larger monitor? I've done tube swaps on 19s with only about 10 minutes of converging to make it damn near perfect.

[Level42]

Definitely harder.

Good question Wunder.....I guess it's a matter of routine.....

[Spyridon]

Okay, I reflowed the solder on the bad pins and put the monitor back in the cab.  No improvement    Still have the spot killer on.  (of course, it could be my bad soldering skills didn't help).  This is frustrating.

What should I check next?

If all else fails, I'll send it to Chad at Arcadecup.com, but I'd like to avoid the $135 charge (plus shipping)

[Level42]

You did see my offer Spyridon ?

Did you check for any breaks in the tracks ? Only reflowing won't solve those cracks, you will need to bridge the gaps with a wire.  You need to measure every pin of every connector. Look where the track of each pin runs to and measure between the pin itself (not the soldering !) and the pin of the component it runs to.

[Spyridon]

You did see my offer Spyridon ?

Which one...the one where I send the boards to you or the one where I pay your travel expense to come here 

Did you check for any breaks in the tracks ? Only reflowing won't solve those cracks, you will need to bridge the gaps with a wire.  You need to measure every pin of every connector. Look where the track of each pin runs to and measure between the pin itself (not the soldering !) and the pin of the component it runs to.

I did a visual check.  I'll check tonight with a meter across every connector.

[ChadTower]

Okay, I reflowed the solder on the bad pins and put the monitor back in the cab.  No improvement   

Don't pick and choose what you reflow.  Do them all.  Yes, it will take a while.  Add solder to anything that looks like there isn't enough.  This is a case where if you have a little bit more than is necessary that won't hurt you.

Stop trying to bullseye bad solder joints from your T16 back home.