How Important is Tempered (vs Regular) Glass Over Playfield?

[Charles4400]

I suppose having tempered glass is ideal, but has anyone had BAD experiences not having tempered glass and just regular?

I got a sheet cut but it was not tempered and was just wondering if I have to seriously worry about the ball hitting  the underside of the glass and getting glass shards everywhere or it cracking the glass easier than tempered...

Or is it just fine using regular glass and not that big a deal?

[koolmoecraig]

No offense but I'm amazed you have to ask.

Take a pinball out of your machine and chuck it at a plate glass window and see what happens.

Yes, I would seriously worry about it shattering.

[Visitor Q]

For the price difference, I would not cut corners. I heard sheets of temp glass can be had for less than $50 at pinball shows. Pinball Life has it for 25 bucks local pick up so it must be cheap to buy.

Why risk it?

[ChadTower]

It won't even take an airball.  First time some jackass leans on the middle of it you're toast.

[shardian]

It won't even take an airball.  First time some jackass leans on the middle of it you're toast.

Exactly. That size plate glass won't support much weight at all. You could almost stand on (if your skinny) tempered glass.

[Charles4400]

Arggh darn it...I called in to a local glass shop last week and gave dimensions for the glass I wanted over the phone (widebody pin) and only when I picked it up did I think about tempered glass  , it cost me $60 with tax.

(they at least dulled down the sides so I could handle it with bare hands)

Would really rather not buy a new pices of glass...grrrr...

So did everyone here always have tempered on their pins to begin with or has anyone used/seen regular glass on a pin with success (or on the flipside have you actually seen the glass shatter after being hit with an airball for regular glass)?

I figure if it cracks after an airball then I will have to replace it, but since I have it already, mine as well use it....right?

I'll just have to make sure nobody leans on it.

[HaRuMaN]

I would get rid of it.  Now, before someone gets hurt.

Non - tempered glass is SHARP when it breaks, increasing your chances of serious injury.  And... it probably will break.

[ChadTower]

I figure if it cracks after an airball then I will have to replace it, but since I have it already, mine as well use it....right?

I'll just have to make sure nobody leans on it.

Plate glass shatters in foot long razor daggers.  

Read up on what tempered glass is... you may be able to bring that one back and have them temper it.

[Visitor Q]

I would get rid of it, have it cut into something else you can use or just sell it back to them at a lose. At least the good thing here is it is not temp. glass in the wrong size or you would really be screwed since that can't be cut once it is fired.

[ChadTower]

I'm curious... at any time did you say the word "pinball" while ordering this piece of glass?  You'd think any glass shop employee would immediately say "wait you want to put this in a pinball machine"?

[Charles4400]

Ya I told the guy it was for a pinball machine....he just took the order and said it would be ready in an hour!

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions all ...Time to open up the yellow pages and find a cheaper glass place...with tempered glass!

(the wife is really gonna love this one  )

Thanks!

[HaRuMaN]

You'll find tempered glass is cheaper than a trip to the ER / morgue / etc....

[shardian]

Did you ask them if they can temper it? Better to check before buying a new piece.

And to be entirely fair, Ken Layton uses plate glass in pins. It is one of the few things I disagree with him on. Why does he use plate? Because cleaning up tempered glass is a royal pain in the ass! Small price to pay for safety though, especially with kids around.

[shardian]

If tempered glass breaks while it's installed on the game, you're going to get playfield damage.  That's really the only drawback. 

I think you have that backward. Plate glass has a possibility of breaking toys, or gouging the playfield. Tempered glass just means you have alot of work to do with a shop-vac with a detail brush attachment.

[Flake]

For those of you who have mentioned safety as one of the issues with plate glass - what exactly are you doing to your pins?  I can understand that a airball could crack/break the glass but if it breaks just remove it carefully enough so you dont cut yourself.  Its not like the glass is going to explode (more likely with tempered) and fly out of the playfield area shooting shards at your childrens eye's.  Maybe I'm missing something.

I just think maybe you all are going a little overboard on this one....

[shardian]

I just think maybe you all are going a little overboard on this one....

Have you ever seen the way the average person treats an arcade game or pinball? Pin glass gets stuff piled on it, people lean on it, people hit it, etc. Tempered withstands all of this over and over.

Granted, it's not as big of a deal in the home environment if you control who has access to the games.

And first and foremost, I am concerned about safety more than damage to the machine. My little girl leaned on an entertainment center glass door and broke it when she was learning to walk. It was tempered and shattered, with her falling into the pile. She was perfectly fine, not a scratch one thanks to the tempered glass. I don't know if I could say the same if that glass had been standard glass.

[Flake]

Have you ever seen the way the average person treats an arcade game or pinball? Pin glass gets stuff piled on it, people lean on it, people hit it, etc. Tempered withstands all of this over and over.

People really pile up stuff and hit your pin glass?  Geez....if I ever caught someone hitting my arcade glass that would be the last time they played it.

Hey I'm with you, if you have a choice in the beginning go with tempered but if you already have plate and they wont temper it for you I dont think its worth discarding the plate glass and purchasing tempered new.

[shardian]

People really pile up stuff and hit your pin glass?  Geez....if I ever caught someone hitting my arcade glass that would be the last time they played it.

I've piled stuff on my pin occasionally when it was out of commission...
Had a nephew punch the plexi on an upright vid. It was the last time he played a game at my house. Are you saying you don't know anyone who reacts violently to 'losing'? I had a friend who regularly had to buy a new SNES controller.

[Flake]

Are you saying you don't know anyone who reacts violently to 'losing'?

Sure I do, I am notorious for throwing hissy fits after losing (happens often)....but I dont take it out on the glass....

Throwing around a console controller is one thing, hitting the glass.....thats something else.....haha, partial SW quote........yea I know pretty weak.

[Visitor Q]

Tempered Glass Breaking = Dust Everywhere! 

[ChadTower]

Dust is better than blood.

[shardian]

Tempered Glass Breaking = Dust Everywhere! 

I've shattered my fair share of tempered glass, and I don't recall significant dust.

[Ken Layton]

Did you ask them if they can temper it? Better to check before buying a new piece.

And to be entirely fair, Ken Layton uses plate glass in pins. It is one of the few things I disagree with him on. Why does he use plate? Because cleaning up tempered glass is a royal pain in the ass! Small price to pay for safety though, especially with kids around.

Yes I use ordinary plate glass.

All my other operator friends also use plate glass. Pinball machine made before 1975 came from the factory with ordinary plate glass. The only reason pinball machines made after 1976 come with tempered safety glass from the factory is because of UL requirements for "amusement machines".

[Charles4400]

Did you ask them if they can temper it? Better to check before buying a new piece.

I asked and though he never gave me an offical quote, he was suggesting more on getting it laminated by someone that does tinting to correct it. He said they can send it out to get it tempered but didn't recommend that and was steering me away from that. Price for a tempered glass if it were originally bought was only $10 more 

Yes I use ordinary plate glass.

All my other operator friends also use plate glass. Pinball machine made before 1975 came from the factory with ordinary plate glass. The only reason pinball machines made after 1976 come with tempered safety glass from the factory is because of UL requirements for "amusement machines".

That's good news to hear actually, not because I don't believe in the safety of tempered glass but if many pins were produced with plate glass then it seems that the glasses breaking frequently are not that often.... thanks for the input Ken!

Well since I have my glass and no kids climbing on the pins or ahole friends banging on the glass, I'll just ride it out....if it breaks I'll get a tempered replacement for sure ....

(also which tilted the final decision is I just found out today I have a pipe which is leaking under tiled floor <and under concrete>, so I have plumber costs to deal with and I'm feeling broker every single minute they are here!)

[Visitor Q]

Visitor Q hands Charles4400 the dice, good luck.

[ChadTower]

Has anyone ever had a hard glass-whacking airball on an EM, Ken?

[Charles4400]

Visitor Q hands Charles4400 the dice, good luck.

Here's to hard eights, 5 on the horn and full odds behind the line! Thanks!

[Xiaou2]

The OLDER Machines are SLOWER, and only had ONE LEVEL!

 Air-Balls  occur on fast moving  multi-level &  'ramped' games.

 A single airball will more than likely destroy plate glass, and the
result could be glass shards in your eyes.

 Also, plate glass will not take much pressure... and I would NEVER Trust
plate glass to a house that had children in it.

 They put their hand thru it,  and their wrists will be sliced open like
a hot knife through butter.

 Tempered glass can be hit with a hammer in the center of it.. and not shatter.
Its that tough.  Its only when you hit the very edge of the glass that it will
shatter... yet the pieces will be harmless. (not razor sharp like typical plate
glass)   

 Tempered glasses sides are protected by the pinball rails, so its a real
rarity that it would break.   It usually only breaks when people are removing it,
because they take it out at an uneven angle - hitting the edge too hard.
Or when they set the glass down on a corner or too hard - rather than set its edge
gently on a padded mat/foam..etc.

 Do not take the chance on Plate glass on non-EM pinball machines.  And even then,
it would be better to use tempered.  Children?  Then the answer is clearly tempered.

[pinballwizard79]

Seriously.

You need to just chalk that $60.00 loss "to the game".

Put in tempered, no other option.

We are talking about far more than a "boo boo" here, we are talking sliced tendons & severed muscle tissue.

You know how sometimes getting hit in the balls hurts worse when its just a graze or tap?

Glass can break under the same logic........"I dont get it, all I did was just lean on the lock down bar while playing, a ball didn't even hit it".

There is a reason builders & contractors have to adhere to codes, there is a reason auto makes have safety guidelines & there is a reason pinballs have tempered glass.

& for the record, its mandatory every now & then to tap the glass when you get a SDTM

[Charles4400]

Just for the record no kids in the house (kids get on everything and I would definately change it if there were kids around!)

Btw whats 'SDTM'?

[shardian]

Has anyone ever had a hard glass-whacking airball on an EM, Ken?

Charlie's Angels can have a very violent air ball up the left lane, and it was available in EM. However, it would have been equipped with tempered glass.

And the only reason games back before 74 or so came with plate glass was because manufacturers didn't give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- about safety. Also see: Lead paint, seat belts, etc, etc.

[Hoopz]

Btw whats 'SDTM'?

Straight down the middle.

[ChadTower]

Just for the record no kids in the house (kids get on everything and I would definately change it if there were kids around!)

Do you have a cat?  It would be funky to come home to a game dripping with cat blood because it jumped onto the glass and went through.  A dead cat is almost as bad as half the toys on Ripley's Believe it or Not.

[HaRuMaN]

Do you have a cat?  It would be funky to come home to a game dripping with cat blood because it jumped onto the glass and went through.  A dead cat is almost as bad as half the toys on Ripley's Believe it or Not.

This is true.  My cat loves to sit on top of my pin, and will jump down onto the glass, usually with a pretty solid thump.

[Visitor Q]

ON RPG there was a picture of a cat that threw up on a pin, I certainly can live without see one dead in one.

I like those furry little guys. 

[Charles4400]

Well heres the update:

After talking it over with the wife we decided on getting and now have a tempered glass piece 

I was not so much concerned anymore about what might happen within the game that might break it, but the external factors such as friends' kids coming over and doing something stupid to the pin (like sit on it) or bang on the glass or do whatever during parties we sometimes have.

And its pretty much a guarantee that if friends do bring in their kids, they are heading straight over to the pin machine (or mame cab...but definately 1 of the 2!)

So thanks all, I got a tempered glass from an Arcade/pinball store (Game Doc in LA) for $50 (who would have though it would have been cheaper than a regular glass store and be tempered?)

Well it was time to break the old glass (the scuffed and scratched one that originally came with my pin and the non tempered one I bought recently).

In short the original tempered one was harder to break and did just what it was supposed to. Tiny pieces which either fell apart or stuck to the protective coating. Took a few decent whacks with a hammer (with the glass in a few lawn garbage bags) and it withstood those impacts and I ended up doing the initial break by dropping a brick on it with a rock underneath it! Sure enough , pretty darn strong glass!

Then it was time to do the non-tempered. It didn't break as easily as many had made it seem, perhaps 3/16" is a good trhickness for non-tempered glass if it has to be on a pin.
One whack of the hammer didn't do it (of course I didn't hit it as hard as I could and it was laying flat on concrete). But it did break significantly easier than the tempered. Glass shards in a plastic garbage bag as expected, sharp and scary looking especially compared to the tempered!

From breaking both glasses tempered is definately sronger and as just about all of you had said is a better choice for the pin machine!

BUT non-tempered I think would make it through normal gameplay with an occasional airball and should be okay. What I don't think it would hold up to are kids banging on it with whatever object they have in hand or someone dropping something heavy on it in its center...

Anyways the thought of kids getting hurt on my pinball is a little to much for me to want to worry about during parties, when I'd rather just worry about where I left my drink last!

So once again I appreciate all the thoughts and views on the matter, and hell I'm $60 down but what the heck, I 've lost that in 5 secs. in Vegas before quite often!

 

[Visitor Q]

What no video?  

I think you did the right thing here. 

[shardian]

it is a good learning experience. I think we've all ate at least a few bucks learning this hobby.

P.S. The first time I learned all about tempered glass was when I was trying to cut a piece of it with a dremel tool. 

[ChadTower]

P.S. The first time I learned all about tempered glass was when I was trying to cut a piece of it with a dremel tool. 

 

[JeepMonkey]

Good decision.

If the worst you have to do in this line of work is ask for forgiveness for $60 count yourself lucky.

[Visitor Q]

When I installed my new Cliffy I thought those posts screwed out and I fought with it forever. Turns out you just tap them out with a hammer, no threads.