Sony Ps3 to loose backwards compatability completely

[shmokes]

As far as sony pulling their BC, if it is (was) software enabled I dont see how they are losing out.

Well, FWIW, PS2 compatibility on a PS3 requires actual PS2 hardware.  Under no circumstances has it ever been done 100% in software on the PS3's cell processor and graphics chip.  It has always been a hardware solution.

[Loafmeister]

because they didnt include BC as built in hardware they wont be chastised for dropping their support of it 

Dropping backward compatibility is dropping backward compatibility, I don't care how you were delivering it.  Whether you drop it in software or drop it in hardware, you're dropping it either way.

The difference between Xbox 360 and PS3 is that future purchasers of the Xbox 360 will still get the same partial (but still fairly comprehensive, from what I understand) backward compatibility that everyone else has.  New PS3 owners get zero backward compatibility.  That's what's effed up. 

I agree completely. But with MS, they conveniently never put out a statement about whether or not they are still supporting the BC  list or if they're done with it all together. This way they avoid any bad press. I'm glad they did what they did, but i still have a few games i'd like to see on that list. As far as sony pulling their BC, if it is (was) software enabled I dont see how they are losing out.

Slightly off topic, I wonder if people have fully grasped the bigger picture of digital downloads. For example,  in the very near future it seems games, full games, will be going the route of digital download. I'm betting its going to be marketed as cheaper (less cost to physically produce),  more convenient, and if you delete it by accident you can just DL it again. But what about when you're tired of it? Plenty of people like to buy-conquer-resell-buy new game. Not with digital, its your forever. What about 2 console cycles from now? Will the xbox 1440 play my megaman 9? Dam well better.  I own 2 360s, one for me, one for my wife. We play rockband on her xbox. We have downloaded lots and lots of tracks for RB and RB2. But when she wants to play Viva Pinata and i want to take RB upstairs to play on my 360...no DLC for me. Even though we own both xbox's, live in the same house, we're married, and the money that paid for ALL the DLC came from our checking account, the same account that bought both 360 brand new and pays our Xbox Live account. Remember when you could take your favorite game over to a friends house? Cant do that with Digital DLs, your friend better have his own copy if you want to play there (even if that friend is your own wife). At the rate people are buying the DL content, when most realise it, its gonna be too late. 

  OK, i'm done.

I need a Whopper 

Pardon my ignorance if I'm wrong but you can (I think) if the RB tracks work the same as other DLC's.  My friend does it all the time with xbox live arcade games. You need to recover your account on the other console and redownload the tracks (again, if it applies the same) and then it should work.  This does mean the 2nd console does need to be connected to Xbox live though, a hassle for some, but there is a workaround.  The big ugly non-fun experience though is when you go back to your other console, you again have to recover your account, a good 10 minute process.

It's not a fun solution, but again it works for xblive arcade stuff so hopefully it will work for RB tracks too. Let me know if it works, I plan on buying a second 360 in the future for the upstairs living room.

[NipRing]

As far as sony pulling their BC, if it is (was) software enabled I dont see how they are losing out.

Well, FWIW, PS2 compatibility on a PS3 requires actual PS2 hardware.  Under no circumstances has it ever been done 100% in software on the PS3's cell processor and graphics chip.  It has always been a hardware solution.

I did some research and found out that  the 20 and 60 model's BC was enabled solely by hardware (Emotion Engine + Grapics Synthesizer GPU) while the 80's BC was emulation the EE with software accompanied by the GS GPU. It was the removal of the GPU that completely shut the door on the backward compatibility option. Apparently that gpu cost $100?

[NipRing]

Pardon my ignorance if I'm wrong but you can (I think) if the RB tracks work the same as other DLC's.  My friend does it all the time with xbox live arcade games. You need to recover your account on the other console and redownload the tracks (again, if it applies the same) and then it should work.  This does mean the 2nd console does need to be connected to Xbox live though, a hassle for some, but there is a workaround.  The big ugly non-fun experience though is when you go back to your other console, you again have to recover your account, a good 10 minute process.

It's not a fun solution, but again it works for xblive arcade stuff so hopefully it will work for RB tracks too. Let me know if it works, I plan on buying a second 360 in the future for the upstairs living room.

That will only work if you arent using both accounts at the same time. I guess part of what i was trying to say was that we both paid for it but i cant use it on my account. Technically only she owns the  DLC but according to WI state marriage law, i'm entitled to half that!

[shmokes]

You probably own your cars jointly, too, but that doesn't mean you can drive one to one location while she simultaneously drives it to another.   

I agree that there are some seriously lame drawbacks to DLC, but I don't think you'll get any help from the law here.  If you divorce your wife, though, you get half those tracks, though!  Take solace in that.   

[Dartful Dodger]

Pardon my ignorance if I'm wrong but you can (I think) if the RB tracks work the same as other DLC's.

That will only work if you arent using both accounts at the same time.

Another problem is you can only download an RB song you've bought 3 times.

Even if you only intend on owning one PS3 you could lose the download eventually because if they update or fix a song after you downloaded it you have to re-download it, at the cost of another download.  I had to do this with the Police set, but what really pist me off is that was one of the first sets I downloaded and I didn't know what I doing so I ended up downloaded it twice the first time.  By getting the update I ended up using all the downloads for it.

I use to check on the RB site every week to see what new songs were released and since they were so cheap if I vaguely liked the song I'd get it.   I'm now bored of the game and I have at least 60 dollars of DLC taking up space on my PS3. I have an 80 gig PS3, but the frequency these games and the systems have updates I’m guessing it won’t be long before I'll need to start deleting files.

[patrickl]

As far as sony pulling their BC, if it is (was) software enabled I dont see how they are losing out.

Well, FWIW, PS2 compatibility on a PS3 requires actual PS2 hardware.  Under no circumstances has it ever been done 100% in software on the PS3's cell processor and graphics chip.  It has always been a hardware solution.

I did some research and found out that  the 20 and 60 model's BC was enabled solely by hardware (Emotion Engine + Grapics Synthesizer GPU) while the 80's BC was emulation the EE with software accompanied by the GS GPU. It was the removal of the GPU that completely shut the door on the backward compatibility option. Apparently that gpu cost $100?

IIRC they dropped the price by $50 for slashing the GPU, memory card reader and a few of the USB ports.

[shmokes]

Not to mention that prices on other components in the system had probably come down too, helping them make that price cut.

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

An interesting wrinkle to further fuel the coversation:

http://xboxevolved.e-mpire.com/article/3rd_generation_Xbox/4902.html

And just because I like him:    LOL.

[shmokes]

That's interesting, and definitely cool.  But in many ways I see it as similar to backward compatibility.  I think most people don't want to revisit games they've already got bored with.  I think if I upgraded from a 360 to a 720 or whatever, I'd probably pop my games in to satisfy my curiosity, but it would probably not reignite my original passion for the game.

[DaveMMR]

That's interesting, and definitely cool.  But in many ways I see it as similar to backward compatibility.  I think most people don't want to revisit games they've already got bored with.  I think if I upgraded from a 360 to a 720 or whatever, I'd probably pop my games in to satisfy my curiosity, but it would probably not reignite my original passion for the game.

Agreed.  I installed a High-Res patch for Duke Nukem 3D the other day, played it for 10 minutes and when the novelty wore off, I realized that it's the same Duke Nukem 3D with a paint job.  But at the same time, I'll play Super Mario Bros. without the need for enhanced graphics to make it enjoyable. 

It's still a cool idea, nontheless, but wouldn't that add needless turnaround time to production?   

[AtomSmasher]

It's still a cool idea, nontheless, but wouldn't that add needless turnaround time to production?   

Not necessarily, or at least not by much.  They unified the programming for the 360 with DirectX 10, so it makes sense that they'll keep the code the same for the next version of the xbox, with the exception of adding a few new commands to speed up certain functions (it should include whatever commands get added to DX11, but the point is DX 10 will still be able to run on DX 11 systems).  This means there is no extra time added for making the code compatible with the new xbox.

Since the code is the same, then all they would have to do is change a few variables (such as depth of field, number of light sources to render, etc.), models, and textures to be higher resolution.  When developing models and textures for games, they often create them at a much higher resolution then the game system can handle and downgrade them to what they need, so this means including the higher resolution models and textures should be fairly simple for most games.  It's similar to how PC games are currently made, they'll just include a higher graphics setting for the new system.

[DaveMMR]

Good and interesting point. Thanks Atom!

[shmokes]

Atom's PC analogy is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.  How many of us revisit all our old games when we upgrade to a newer computer so we can play through at a higher resolution with 4x anti-aliasing and bump mapping turned on?  I mean, there may be the occasional exception -- maybe some favorite that you obsess over.  But for the most part it just doesn't really happen.  I'm all about MS doing this.  I really think it's cool.  But for the most part . . . I just don't think it's a feature that many people will use much.  It's good for marketing, like backwards compatibility, actually.  But not much else.