Main > Lightguns
Arcade Light Gun Interface comming
vitalsfading:
well here is what i am trying to have hagstrom do is to make this interface campatable with mame the r0r3 youcan get that but the everyone that has emailed him says that the guys says that it is not compatable with mame out of the box i want hagstrom to make it compatable out of the box maybe i should bring that up that some of the games flash in the software also what the tech said to me i n the last email is that most of the arcade light gun games when the flash they only light up certain sections of the screen not like the old duck hunt where they light the targets. he also said the way the arcade guns work also it flashes then the game finds out were the gun was pointed on the screen not what it was pointed at if that makes sense. maybe it would be as simple(although probably not) just to have a setting in the software to turn the flash the software would normally produce off.
u_rebelscum:
I'm very suspect that the original game flashing in mame will not be enough. In the original hardware, the game flashed when the trigger was pulled, and then the mainboard (or I/O board) timed the gun sensor and calculated the screen location. However in mame, the game flashes when mame tells the game the trigger was pulled, and mame does not emulate the gun sensor timing part, but instead relies on the OS to give a mouse location.
Let's assume the original game sends the flash at the start of the next frame, and expects the location to be calculated within three frames (~3/60 sec, or ~1/20 of a sec) of the trigger pull. This is conservative, as I'd think most expect it during that flashed screen, or at average of 1.5 frames, or max of 2 frames (finish of current frame + flashed frame). The time to finish the current frame and the time for drawing the flash screen is there no matter what, which leaves 1 frame for the firmware (or driver or software) to calculate the location, send to mame, and mame to send to the game. And mame polls inputs only once per frame; if mame polls too early, no luck. And that's assuming mame's -dual_light hack isn't enabled, as this requires the location to be sent at the same time as the trigger pull. Add if the game expects it within 2 frames, there is no way it can be done (err, without emulating the original location calculating hardware AND adding a new raw sensor input type AND writing a driver that lets apps see the raw sensor data signal ;D).
So the interface:
* Needs to be able to flash the screen itself, so the interface can send the location with the trigger pull. It might be left an option for games already bright enough, and/or be able to adjust the brightness, so tinted glass will be bright enough, but untinted won't be blinding bright.
* It would be best for mame if the interface would send a location of (0,MAX_Y) or (MAX_X,MAX_Y) for offscreen shots. OTOH, other games want mouse button 2 with last shot location, and mame has hacks to translate that to IIRC (0,MAX_Y), so it's not a needed feature.
* For mame, the interface can send real screen location (example: a 1280x1024 screen, 1-1280 and 1-1024), or fixed (example: 0-64000 for both X & Y, no matter what res it's running at). OTOH, other apps probably want the real screen location.
* For mame, the interface needs to be either a RawInput able mouse (not a problem for drivers, AFAIK), or an analog joystick. OTOH, IDNK of any other app that uses RawInput, and all lightguns that works in mame act like a mouse. (Others will say it won't work if a joystick, based on the one lightgun that was a joystick at didn't work in mame, but it wasn't because it was a joystick.)
* The firmware or driver or software needs to calculate the location, as mame doesn't. One note about software, it's a lot harder for them to be RawInput able. (The other option of sending the sensor signal to mame will need some big changes to mame, mentioned earlier.)
Also, are you asking someone to supply a happs gun to Hagstrom? I might have one to loan.
--- Quote from: vitalsfading on May 20, 2008, 10:53:54 am --- the r0r3 youcan get that but the everyone that has emailed him says that the guys says that it is not compatable with mame out of the box
--- End quote ---
This is more info on that than I've heard of before. Any more details?
--- Quote ---... maybe i should bring that up that some of the games flash in the software
--- End quote ---
Won't help as mentioned above. And sounds like he is aware of it already.
--- Quote ---also what the tech said to me i n the last email is that most of the arcade light gun games when the flash they only light up certain sections of the screen not like the old duck hunt where they light the targets.
--- End quote ---
Err, usually arcade games flash the whole screen, or only the dark parts. But yes, the old duck hunt only lit the targets.
--- Quote --- he also said the way the arcade guns work also it flashes then the game finds out were the gun was pointed on the screen not what it was pointed at if that makes sense.
--- End quote ---
Yup. If you aren't clear on what happens, try wiki and howstuffworks. Or maybe I can explain it different way if you need. (If you understand already, great. :) I wasn't sure from what you wrote.)
--- Quote ---maybe it would be as simple(although probably not) just to have a setting in the software to turn the flash the software would normally produce off.
--- End quote ---
Impossible without hacking the ROMs (if that's what you're taling about).
vitalsfading:
rebel that is why hagstrom is building and i am not lol as far as supplying a gun to hagstom, i still haven't found the box with mine in it. so if i can't by the end of the week maybe we can work something out if you don't mind of course i am sure by what they are telling me that they are just going to use it for software testing. like i said i told them i am using it in mame. they told me interfacing the harware won't be a problem they just need tofigure out what they need to do about the software btw what model happgun is it
vitalsfading:
Quote
maybe it would be as simple(although probably not) just to have a setting in the software to turn the flash the software would normally produce off.
Impossible without hacking the ROMs (if that's what you're taling about).
i wasn't talking about the roms i was talking about the software interfacing the guns
this is what was part of the last email i got
In the typical gun game, the point on the screen activates, and then the output from the gun is analyzed to see if it was pointed at that area. In your case, (if I understand correctly), you want the screen to activate different parts and determine where on the screen the gun was pointing.
that is why i said maybe there could be some kind of work around with the software or something. i would assume that they have an in house dev team considering that they build arcade to pc interfaces so hopefully they can pull this off
AndyWarne:
--- Quote from: vitalsfading on May 20, 2008, 04:09:53 pm ---
In the typical gun game, the point on the screen activates, and then the output from the gun is analyzed to see if it was pointed at that area. In your case, (if I understand correctly), you want the screen to activate different parts and determine where on the screen the gun was pointing.
--- End quote ---
This actually is not how they normally work.
Normally when the trigger is pulled the video is blanked and then a new complete frame of white is drawn. The phototransistor in the gun knows when the electron beam in the CRT has reached the point where it is directed at. It then calculates the position as it knows the number of lines which have already been drawn, by counting horizontal sync pulses, and it also knows the time interval from the last horizontal sync pulse.
The guns need a direct interface to the video signal, to be able to detect sync pulses and blank/white the screen. This cant be done in software. Then, once the position is known this info can be fed to the PC and the driver does what it needs to do, to work out the actual position using its stored calibration settings.
The problem with the Guncon driver project was that it didnt have any video control, so relied on the gun being able to guess the location, relying on the screen being reasonably white, which few games are.
But all of this is obsolete technology and not worth developing a new product around. It would be better for someone to make an arcade style gun which can accomodate a Wii-mote even if it means hacking it and removing the PCB and wiring it in. Apart from all the other benefits its wireless. Very few people would prefer an arcade gun with its hosepipe over a wireless arcade gun.
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