Rotating monitor - Yet another take

[csa3d]

Good stuff Javery!  I know what you mean with mounting the 2nd side to the bearing.. ran into that as well on mine.  I think the three inch bearing was a better choice over the twelve for less play.  Did you have to do anything fancy to allow room for the VESA mount, since the three inch bearing essentially covers the space the VESA mounting holes were spaced for, or did I miss that in the pics above?  Do make sure you get your Secret Motor driver working, and see if that motor is strong enough to turn your unit also, before declaring success    You might also want to pic up a can of that plastic spray "Dip" coating stuff, depending on the friction you get.  I've got a can on reserve just in case.

I was messing with it this morning, and I'm pretty sure I have about 1/4" play in my bearing.. booo!!  Stay away from the twelves!

The good news on my front, is that I'm stocking up parts for Good Friday, when I have off work.  I have everything I need to mount my monitor, and I'm pretty sure this method is going to be way better then my old one.

-csa

[javeryh]

They are metric- M4...

Awesome - thanks.  I'll be on the look out for them.  I bought #10s (I think) and then fit the hole but got stuck after one revolution...

Good stuff Javery!  I know what you mean with mounting the 2nd side to the bearing.. ran into that as well on mine.  I think the three inch bearing was a better choice over the twelve for less play.  Did you have to do anything fancy to allow room for the VESA mount, since the three inch bearing essentially covers the space the VESA mounting holes were spaced for, or did I miss that in the pics above?  Do make sure you get your Secret Motor driver working, and see if that motor is strong enough to turn your unit also, before declaring success    You might also want to pic up a can of that plastic spray "Dip" coating stuff, depending on the friction you get.  I've got a can on reserve just in case.

I was messing with it this morning, and I'm pretty sure I have about 1/4" play in my bearing.. booo!!  Stay away from the twelves!

The good news on my front, is that I'm stocking up parts for Good Friday, when I have off work.  I have everything I need to mount my monitor, and I'm pretty sure this method is going to be way better then my old one.

-csa

Thanks!  The bearing does seem to be working nicely.  There is slight side-to-side play but probably like 1/16"-1/32" - it's pretty small.  There is also a little play in the other plane of about the same amount.  Once everything is in place though I think the weight of the monitor will keep everything in order. 

I did have to ditch the monitor mounting plate because the bearing was in the way.  I will just have the 4 machine screws going through the MDF panel into the back of the monitor.  I hope I can finish it up this weekend although I'm not sure about the electrical components since I don't have a soldering iron (and I've never done it).  I'll work something out...   

[csa3d]

I hope I can finish it up this weekend although I'm not sure about the electrical components since I don't have a soldering iron (and I've never done it).  I'll work something out...   

Ha.  Good luck with that.  I screwed my first attempt up.  1.  I looked at the instructions twice, yet still ended up soldering the chip adapter upside down on the board!     Then I didn't have a desolderer, so pick one up.  You'll probably be sloppy like I was with something.  2.  When I finally got everything soldered back in, that rainbow colored ribbon isn't super strong.  So temporarily attaching and detaching test wires kept breaking off portions of the rainbow ribbon, and mine is now super short.  For testing, you might want to pick up some plastic wire mount thinger like the one from the front of this thread, and then use REAL wires for testing circuit changes.

Good luck again!
-csa

[psychotech]

javeryh 

Looking really good!

Still, seems to be even more work than with a wheel bearing..?!

Good luck with the Secret Motor driver 

...some plastic wire mount thinger like the one from the front of this thread, and then use REAL wires for testing circuit changes.

Something like this, maybe
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=69&products_id=201

REAL wires? 

[csa3d]

Still, seems to be even more work than with a wheel bearing..?!

I dunno.. the wheel requires hacking and sawing of parts, and fishing for the right bolts and washers, plus you've found some mystery mini caster wheels that I dont' think any US home improvement stores carry.  The bearing is a single part, which everyone carries, but does require you to drill some holes.
If I was going shopping, I feel Javery's method feels cleaner from a parts standpoint.     Both are great ideas.  I still feel that your method is a more sturdy axle solution so far based off my bearing experience.  Javery might prove me wrong next weekend

...some plastic wire mount thinger like the one from the front of this thread, and then use REAL wires for testing circuit changes.

Something like this, maybe
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=69&products_id=201

exactly

REAL wires? 

Wires that will allow you to twist on and off multiple times without breaking off from the stress of twisting.  The rainbow cable provided from soloroberics is not meant for that kind of usage, and becomes brittle quickly.

-csa

[csa3d]

  I bought some 1" machine screws to mount the monitor but they had the wrong threading so it's off to Home Depot today to try and find the right kind...

They are metric- M4...

Indeed he is correct.  I took the screw to Lowes and the guy used the little fitters to determine which I needed, and managed to do so incorrectly.  After reading this post, I went back myself and tried those fitters and no question.. M4 was it!

Just fyi, screws confirmed!

-csa

[weisshaupt]

Indeed he is correct.  I took the screw to Lowes and the guy used the little fitters to determine which I needed, and managed to do so incorrectly.  After reading this post, I went back myself and tried those fitters and no question.. M4 was it!

was there a doubt?  The Screw threads are specified as part of the VESA standard. Every VESA standard mount SHOULD be using M4 threads.

Sorry to hear the Soldering gave you so much trouble.... I agree the ribbon cable that they supply is a bit flimsy and breaks a bit too easily.  Feel free to substitute other wires- as long as you can solder them in without touching, all should be well.  Braided Cat 5 is probably the best, solid core second (solid core can break if bent once too often)

I used a short terminal (barrier)  strip to attach the ribbon cables  wire to the Parallel port cable. I highly recommend doing this as it 1) saves soldering 2) gives you a nice demark that keeps strain off of the chip itself..

[javeryh]

javeryh 

Looking really good!

Still, seems to be even more work than with a wheel bearing..?!

Good luck with the Secret Motor driver 

Thanks!  You may be right about it being more work but I have yet to find a suitable axle bearing like you came up with.  I'm also not sure how to connect the axle using my mounting hardware (attached).  Ideally, the axle is probably the best solution because it allows for zero movement other than the rotation (which is the goal, obviously). 

I'm going to try and pick up some M4 machine screws tonight.  I also realized that the frame/bezel of my monitor isn't uniform (it's thicker on the bottom).  I'm hoping the manufacturer centered the mount with the screen and not with the entire unit or else it won't line up properly when vertical....

 

[weisshaupt]

I'm hoping the manufacturer centered the mount with the screen and not with the entire unit or else it won't line up properly when vertical....

You might hope that, but sadly they probably did not.. I had to offset mine because the Mount was about 3/4 inch off center vertically (in a 4x3 position)  Of course, I didn't figure that out till I put it behind my carefully masked and painted bezel...

I think I would make my monitor side mount out of 3/4 ijnch MDF, and inset the M4 screws so they were flush with the wood, and mount the monitor.  I would then mount my lazy susan bearing to the Cabinet side of the mount. Drill one hole through the cabinet side mount so you can screw the monitor side mount in by rotating it to each new screw position. Do that you should be able able to deal with any offset the monitor folks decided to throw at you, even if it isn't the thinest thing in the world. 

 


[/quote]

[csa3d]

Indeed he is correct.  I took the screw to Lowes and the guy used the little fitters to determine which I needed, and managed to do so incorrectly.  After reading this post, I went back myself and tried those fitters and no question.. M4 was it!

was there a doubt?  The Screw threads are specified as part of the VESA standard. Every VESA standard mount SHOULD be using M4 threads.

Nah.. I bought my screws first, then you posted, then I checked the ones I bought.. and sure enough.. back to the store I went this morning   Oh well.

Sorry to hear the Soldering gave you so much trouble.... I agree the ribbon cable that they supply is a bit flimsy and breaks a bit too easily.  Feel free to substitute other wires- as long as you can solder them in without touching, all should be well.  Braided Cat 5 is probably the best, solid core second (solid core can break if bent once too often)

Soldering probably would have gone better, should I not have been flustered with incorrectly soldering the first chip onto the board.  That ribbon cable was tough though!  I'll be getting a desoldering iron and trying my luck with cat5 like you suggest.. since I have a ton of that lying around anyways.

I used a short terminal (barrier)  strip to attach the ribbon cables  wire to the Parallel port cable. I highly recommend doing this as it 1) saves soldering 2) gives you a nice demark that keeps strain off of the chip itself..

Lowes.com does not carry these.  Will try Radio Shack tomorrow.. bet they have 'em.

Thanks again for all your help.
-csa

[psychotech]

javeryh,

If the left mounting plate in the picture is a standard VESA mounting plate AND if you find a suitable wheel/bearing there should be no problems.. *

1. With a quality bearing you DO NOT need the wheels. (I'm using the wheels only for added friction - built the mount for semiautomatic rotation with hard stops ..with this solution no friction equals bouncing.. not too much fun..)

2. With software controlled rotation ..well, you don't need the wheels. With the semi I don't have too much control of the rotation speed: so, a friction drive.. at the moment    (cornchip ..nice gears )

3. Hope the following picture(s) help(s)... *

1" center hole for the axle ...


Another angle with wheels etc. - useless.


Back again...

[csa3d]

Thanks!  The bearing does seem to be working nicely.  There is slight side-to-side play but probably like 1/16"-1/32" - it's pretty small.  There is also a little play in the other plane of about the same amount.  Once everything is in place though I think the weight of the monitor will keep everything in order. 

I did have to ditch the monitor mounting plate because the bearing was in the way.  I will just have the 4 machine screws going through the MDF panel into the back of the monitor.  I hope I can finish it up this weekend although I'm not sure about the electrical components since I don't have a soldering iron (and I've never done it).  I'll work something out...   

Did you get any time to work on it over the long weekend?  I got the skatewheel bearing going, and so far I feel this is going to work out really well.  Curious to see how that 3" bearing plays out.

-csa

[javeryh]

I mounted the monitor and everything but that's about it.  It is a very smooth rotation but now I need to work out where the microswitches will go and what will be activating them.  There's obviously no room between the panels since the lazy susan bearing is so thin so they will have to be mounted elsewhere.  I like what I've done but I'm still not 100% convinced it's the optimal way to go.

I was doing family stuff all weekend so I didn't have time to film anything - I hope to this week.   

[psychotech]

southpaw13 ...

This thread you're now reading and...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=72750.0

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=59170.msg815384#msg815384

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=75411.0

+javeryh's...

Have fun 

 

[southpaw13]

OK, my rotating project is on it's way.  I went the lazy susan route but bought a much bigger one.  Pro's---can run the wires through the middle, Con's---don't know how much resistance (friction) I will have to deal with.  One question, I bought the on,off,on toggle switch...is there a better wiring diagram out there?

Thanks,
Southpaw

[csa3d]

OK, my rotating project is on it's way.  I went the lazy susan route but bought a much bigger one.  Pro's---can run the wires through the middle, Con's---don't know how much resistance (friction) I will have to deal with.

I'll assume you read the Lazy Susan vs. Pizza Pan thread?  This is a 12" bearing, and I thought it would be the one to beat; I was very wrong.  It rotated terribly due to crappy bearing friction, plus had a lot of side to side play, which means one couldn't be assured a perfect rotation about a center pivot.  I wanted to use the larger for the wire tunneling as well.

If you did read it, then good luck to you.. do let us know which bearing you are using and how it worked out.  You will probably need to buy an expensive one, meant to handle a lot more weight then muffins (to steal the quote from someone else) lol

-csa

[psychotech]

Good luck with your project southpaw13 

"..a better wiring diagram out there?"

Well, there are at least two different diagrams on this thread for a semiautomatic solution... (And a basic ON-ON switch is the best final option (the ON-OFF-ON version is great for fine tuning the system, though) I'd say.)

Going to build a "semiautomatic" rotation system? If so, the wiring diagram(s) should be enough. Really. If you're going to build a software controlled system I'd suggest ...well, more reading ..all the info is available on (or linked to in) the threads listed above.

And yes, do take pictures and document the project as soon as you actually start building it.

Have fun 

[southpaw13]

I have been taking pictures, but it is a little early to post.  My motor won't come in until the 11th.  I thought the on/off/on option would be a little better because it would actually send a stop signal to the motor instead of just full clockwise or counter clockwise.  A small stop in between might extend the motor life.  I actually want to have it working through software at some point once the plug-ins for Mala are working properly.  I already got the lazy susan system operating pretty good right now.   My success will be in the strength of the motor.  I want to mount it to the top of the monitor and have the option of mounting a second motor to the botton if there is not enough torque.

Thoughts?

[weisshaupt]

I have been taking pictures, but it is a little early to post.  My motor won't come in until the 11th.  I thought the on/off/on option would be a little better because it would actually send a stop signal to the motor instead of just full clockwise or counter clockwise.  A small stop in between might extend the motor life.  I actually want to have it working through software at some point once the plug-ins for Mala are working properly.  I already got the lazy susan system operating pretty good right now.   My success will be in the strength of the motor.  I want to mount it to the top of the monitor and have the option of mounting a second motor to the botton if there is not enough torque.

Thoughts?

The Beta Program is stilll open if you want to PM me.. I haven't gotten any feedback from anyone yet so either they are still working on thier rigs (likely) or it just worked first time and no one felt a need to complain (unlikely)

If you are using the secret motor driver chip from Solarotics, you can run 2 motors off of it, not to exceed 600 MA.  Mote amps than that and you need a different H-Bridge chip.. Da OLd Man posted one good to 20 Amps..

[DaOld Man]

Welcome back Weishaupt,
I have been testing your program on the computer Im going to use for my mame machine, I have been experiencing some erratic behavior, but I probably dont have my config file set up right.
The job that pays me to be there has required that I be there, so I havent had much time to play around with it.
I was waiting until I can confirm what Im doing before I emailed you.

Actually, the H drive I built is the same as the one Koz319 did for his project, and the maximum on it is  5 amps.
(better make sure you use heatsinks on the power transistors if you push it that high).

Unless you are talking about my relay drive, it is good for as many amps as the relays you use are rated for.
Speed control is impossible for a relay drive though. (Or at least very impracticable.)

[csa3d]

haven't gotten any feedback from anyone yet so either they are still working on thier rigs (likely)

Bingo.. I'm wired up and ready to go, just need to give the bezel a few more coats of paint and complete the mount before I give 'er a go.  Work has moved to overtime, so progress on the cab takes backseat again    I'm wired according to pulse modulation, so we'll see how that plays out.  I'm thinking I will also a wire some emergency shutoff switch until I trust the rig, wiring, and config.

Still looking forward to turning it on.. sorry I've given no feedback thus far.  Instructionally, your pdf rules if that helps any 

-csa

[weisshaupt]

Welcome back Weishaupt,
I have been testing your program on the computer Im going to use for my mame machine, I have been experiencing some erratic behavior, but I probably dont have my config file set up right.
The job that pays me to be there has required that I be there, so I havent had much time to play around with it.
I was waiting until I can confirm what Im doing before I emailed you.

Actually, the H drive I built is the same as the one Koz319 did for his project, and the maximum on it is  5 amps.
(better make sure you use heatsinks on the power transistors if you push it that high).

Unless you are talking about my relay drive, it is good for as many amps as the relays you use are rated for.
Speed control is impossible for a relay drive though. (Or at least very impracticable.)

No Hurry... You may want to send me an email with your config and tell me what you are seeing. My rig is breadboarded so I can switch it around to match  to a certain degree.. Its entriely possible that my program is not functioning like I think it should, which is why i needed guinea pigs, wait, I mean beta testers..

My job has also picked up a bit and I having less time to fool with this stuff, but I will make and effort if I know folks are having problems..

[weisshaupt]

haven't gotten any feedback from anyone yet so either they are still working on thier rigs (likely)

Bingo.. I'm wired up and ready to go, just need to give the bezel a few more coats of paint and complete the mount before I give 'er a go.  Work has moved to overtime, so progress on the cab takes backseat again    I'm wired according to pulse modulation, so we'll see how that plays out.  I'm thinking I will also a wire some emergency shutoff switch until I trust the rig, wiring, and config.

Still looking forward to turning it on.. sorry I've given no feedback thus far.  Instructionally, your pdf rules if that helps any 

-csa

My only concern is the PMW isn't completely smooth yet. I wanted to return to the code and ifgure how to up the prioirty of the thread, but haven't done so yet. Otherwise I THINK it should work. Mine works strobing the regular inputs and not the enable. The enable SHOULD work though, but my test here was pretty cursory.

FOr the intial tests you might just make the timout very short. The program will put the motor into "brake mode" when it reaches the timeout-- no matter what switches are pressed.  or you can put a switch on the enable lead. If that is low, the chip is off and the motor won't respond to anything the PC tells it to do.

Don't worry about trying to get  it tested quickly.. it happens when it happens, just as its going to get fixed when it gets fixed when/if its broke...  :>)

[DaOld Man]

Don't worry .....,  its going to get fixed when it gets fixed ...

I bet you wont tell your wife that! 

[weisshaupt]

Don't worry .....,  its going to get fixed when it gets fixed ...

I bet you wont tell your wife that! 

Probably not. But since I have reached the stage of life where I am contemplating getting fixed myself, I am not sure it matters .....

Seriously though, if someone encountered a problem with the plugin I would do my best to get some time and fix it...

[southpaw13]

So I am getting ready to balance my monitor.  I just wanted to verify that a magnet won't affect an LCD monitor right?

Thanks...

[csa3d]

So I am getting ready to balance my monitor.  I just wanted to verify that a magnet won't affect an LCD monitor right?

Thanks...

From my understanding, magnets do not affect LCD screens.  This is not true for CRTs.

-csa

[southpaw13]

So I am starting over too.  The lazy suzan idea would be great for a manual rotation.  But too much friction for a motor.  So I bought some bearings and I am going to follow csa3d's design this weekend.  Wish me luck....

Southpaw

[psychotech]

 

So, NO lazy susans. Skate bearings, most likely. Wheel bearings, yet another option..

Anyway, good luck with the project! Hope the skate bearings work !

[csa3d]

So I am starting over too.  The lazy suzan idea would be great for a manual rotation.  But too much friction for a motor.  So I bought some bearings and I am going to follow csa3d's design this weekend.  Wish me luck....

Southpaw

If I was doing it over again Southpaw, I'd consider a thicker piece of wood then 3/4" thickness, and use a longer bolt.  The extra length of the rod (I think) will help minimize tilting of the spinning disk due to a small fulcrum.


Do document, and good luck!

-csa

[southpaw13]

I was thinking about using 2 bearings with 2.5 inches of wood between them.  I bought a 3,4, and 5" bolt to see that works best.  Wish me luck....

[csa3d]

So, NO lazy susans. Skate bearings, most likely. Wheel bearings, yet another option..

Well, I think Javery is still in the running to test out his 3" bearing.  Hurry it up all ready! 

-csa

[Cornchip]

   Yeah!   

[csa3d]

I'm hoping the manufacturer centered the mount with the screen and not with the entire unit or else it won't line up properly when vertical....

You might hope that, but sadly they probably did not.. I had to offset mine because the Mount was about 3/4 inch off center vertically (in a 4x3 position)  Of course, I didn't figure that out till I put it behind my carefully masked and painted bezel...

I think I would make my monitor side mount out of 3/4 ijnch MDF, and inset the M4 screws so they were flush with the wood, and mount the monitor.  I would then mount my lazy susan bearing to the Cabinet side of the mount. Drill one hole through the cabinet side mount so you can screw the monitor side mount in by rotating it to each new screw position. Do that you should be able able to deal with any offset the monitor folks decided to throw at you, even if it isn't the thinest thing in the world. 

 

Another thing I ran into while mounting my monitor in the cab, was wanting to have minor angle adjustments also.  I very carefully marked the sides of the cab for angle and level, and mounted the cross brace.  When I got the inner and outer bezels in place, I found that something torqued just slight enough to make those bezels rub together.  With a 22" disk, an angle being off by even 1/8" causes the edges to be off by even more.  Doing my mount over, I'd also consider side to side adjustment, height adjustment, and angle adjustment in the mounting rig itself.

The things you learn from trying.. I'm pretty sure it's what makes this hobby so damn additing!

-csa

[southpaw13]

Thanks...back to the lazy suzan, I think it would probably work in a cocktail machine.  All the friction is encountered when putting it at an angle...

[weisshaupt]

[Another thing I ran into while mounting my monitor in the cab, was wanting to have minor angle adjustments also.  I very carefully marked the sides of the cab for angle and level, and mounted the cross brace.  When I got the inner and outer bezels in place, I found that something torqued just slight enough to make those bezels rub together.  With a 22" disk, an angle being off by even 1/8" causes the edges to be off by even more.  Doing my mount over, I'd also consider side to side adjustment, height adjustment, and angle adjustment in the mounting rig itself.

The things you learn from trying.. I'm pretty sure it's what makes this hobby so damn additing!

-csa

I let Gravity do my leveling for me..I took the entire assembly, and placed it on some 1/8 inch felt pads, so it would sit CLOSE but not ON the plexi bezel. Once i had it resting  on my plexi bezel, and got under it to make sure it was centered vertically in the right spot (horizonal centering occured natually because its in the center of the mount...)  I merely marked the locations on the sides of the cabinet where the mounts should go (in my case it was just a 2x4)  and then fastened the mount at the right angle using screws drilled form the outside of the cabinet. You could also use l rackets etc, but I found that I only had to so this once, and adjustments were not required.. 

If you mount has more "play" in it and the angle will change as its moved to differen angles this method might not work, or you might use 3/8 inch pads and move the monirot back just a bit..

[javeryh]

So, NO lazy susans. Skate bearings, most likely. Wheel bearings, yet another option..

Well, I think Javery is still in the running to test out his 3" bearing.  Hurry it up all ready! 

-csa

I'm hoping to have some time in a week or so.  I've been on kid duty all weekend every weekend for the last few months since the wife is working like crazy.  Tax season is almost over though so I should be able to squeeze some arcade time in soon...   

[southpaw13]

Just a couple things.  The  pizza pan seems a little thin so I am going to reinforce it with a steel plate.  Also, my monitor has two hook-ups d-sub and dvi-d.  Since I am also going to buy a new video card soon, which hook-up is better with Mame...

Thanks,
Southpaw

[csa3d]

Just a couple things.  The  pizza pan seems a little thin so I am going to reinforce it with a steel plate.  Also, my monitor has two hook-ups d-sub and dvi-d.  Since I am also going to buy a new video card soon, which hook-up is better with Mame...

Thanks,
Southpaw

If you got a flimsy pan, then sure, reinforce it.  The one I bought is rock solid, and I never once felt it was going to bend.  Go with dvi-d.  I'm not a fan of fuzzy, or I would have used a TV instead of an lcd.

-csa

[southpaw13]

I got the same pan.  It just feels flimsy to me because it is aluminum.  But, I have been known to overdo things...