Lightgun games on the Wii

[Wiibound]

It sucks that there can be no "true" lightgun games on the Wii since you point at the sensor bar and not the TV, and always have to track that stupid reticule on the screen.. but I heard Ghost Squad has a good calibration system and if you sit perfectly still it can be used like a light gun. Is ghost squad a good game?

Anyway I was playing Link's Crossbow Training with the Zapper and it honestly felt really good and somehow like an arcade lightgun shooter...

[geomartin]

They may not be able to make one for the Wii Mote, but couldn't they make one that plugs into the Gamecube controller ports?

[shmokes]

They never ever would do that when the standard controller is so functional as a light gun alternative.  Who's going to make a peripheral that nobody in their right mind would buy?

[RTSDaddy2]

I'll agree with Wiibound about Link's Crossbow Training.  It took a while to get the calibration set for myself,  but once I did I found it to be a good bit of fun.  Is it a great game? No, but it - much like Wii Sports - does show off the new "Zapper" very well. 

Ok, yes, I know the "Zapper" really doesn't do a thing except hold the Wiimote in place.  That said, if you haven't picked one up just to try it out, you should find a place to do so if possible.  The unit just feels good in your hands....it feels well balanced, if you will, and gives you easy enough access to the necessary buttons.  It can be held out away from the body, or in against your shoulder for more steadying (I've used both dependent on which level of Link's crossbow training I'm doing).

I told my wife this thing let me see now why so many people like shooters like "House of the Dead", etc. The round against the little trolls that pop up out of the ground is a heck of a lot of fun.

I will say this - some companies jumped the gun and released their own "zapper" attachment about 2 -3 weeks ahead of the official one. There's no way in heck I'd plop down $20 for one of these wannabes as the gun barrel looks way to long to give you access to the necessary buttons.

[Wiibound]

yeah this one feels great

[Wiibound]

Well I just got Ghost Squad and now have no doubt in my mind that the Wii can do lightgun games for real
true lightgun

[SNAAKE]

anybody have this ??

http://wiikey.com.cn/product_detail.asp?pid=66

[RTSDaddy2]

No, but I sure wish you'd have posted that sooner -  I might have tried this one out before trying the official Nintendo version - I might anyway.  I could get two of those for the price of one Nintendo zapper.    

My biggest concern would be how close the Nunchuk stick is to the top of the gun - I wonder if that design would make it easier to control the chuk or if it's so cramped that it's uncomfortable.

[Howard_Casto]

I haven't been around in a while but I just wanted to chime in right quick about the zapper.....

It's so-so..... not, good, but not great.  You definately need some sort of gun attachment to play the lightgun games though because without the ability to hold the wiimote by a 90 degree angle, it makes them less enjoyable.  I got the official one because of link's crossbow training and the low price.  It works well.... the analog stick is rather akward to use, but it has nothing to do with the placment and more to do with the fact that you are trying to aim the zapper and move around at the same time.  This would be true of any attachment that holds the nunchuck though. This shouldn't be an issue as true lightgun games won't require anything more than a few buttons.  I beleive the real reason for both controllers in the housing is the addition of two buttons for reloading and zooming, a feature required for ghost squad.  The whole rig seems directly based off of the ghost squad arcade guns actually.

I'll probably end up getting one of the pistol grips snake linked to as well.  They are cheap and will work well with re:uc, which apparently has a melee weapon controlled by shaking the nunchuck. 

LCT is a very rushed game.  It harkens back to duck hunt really.  No story, no intro, no nothing.  You just play the stages till time runs out and if you shoot well enough then you keep going.  It's worth the price, but no more.  I got it just for the game and I'm happy about that, but not overly impressed.

Anyway, the reason I wanted to chime in is because there's this whole "I can't use my nyko chargers with the zapper so I'm not buying one" b.s. floating around on the net.  It's just that, b.s. First off, because the nyko battery covers bulge out a bit it does make it impossible to lock it in place, but that is the case of ALL gun attachments, save maybe on made by nyco (do they have one yet?).  But the lack of common sense about this problem astounds me.  Yup the wiimote won't fit with the battery cover on it, so all you do is take the frikkin thing off!  No need to switch batteries or anything... once the cover is taken off the battery stays in place and the wiimote locks right in!  Even if you had soem kind of loose battery, the zapper housing itself would keep the batteries from flying out. 

So don't believe everything you read about this thing on the net, as some people are just dumb.   

I think that the zapper is something you are either gonna love or hate.  You need to try one really.

[TOK]

anybody have this ??

http://wiikey.com.cn/product_detail.asp?pid=66

They misspelled "quality assured".   

[AtomSmasher]

It looks like House of the Dead 2 and 3 are coming to the Wii in Spring 2008
http://gameinfowire.com/news.asp?nid=11360

[versapak]

It looks like House of the Dead 2 and 3 are coming to the Wii in Spring 2008
http://gameinfowire.com/news.asp?nid=11360

Cool.


I'd much rather see 4 making its way to any console anywhere, since I already have 2 on Dreamcast and Xbox, as well as 3 obviously on Xbox.

No sale for me, but I hope they do well, so we can see more light gun games making it out. It has always been a favorite genre of mine.


Not sure how I feel about the Wii being the new light gun platform though. Is the experience good enough with the Wiimote, that you aren't wishing you had a real light gun the whole time?

I understand that is kind of the point of this thread, but what I want to basically know is... Do you feel like you are settling for less with the Wiimote, as opposed to a real light gun?

[Howard_Casto]

It looks like House of the Dead 2 and 3 are coming to the Wii in Spring 2008
http://gameinfowire.com/news.asp?nid=11360

I understand that is kind of the point of this thread, but what I want to basically know is... Do you feel like you are settling for less with the Wiimote, as opposed to a real light gun?

Well let's put it this way... since the other two systems are HD you've gotta assume that any lightgun for any system that comes out is gonna be based on an IR camera anyway.  (Because  lcd tvs and other hd options aren't compatable.)  I only have LCT atm (santa will hopefully bring the rest) but I can say that due to poorly written SOFTWARE it isn't quite as good as a regular lightgun.  With the adjustment screen, you can get it fairly spot-on but it's rather difficult to tweak as the whole thing is done manually.  With a simple "shoot the corners" screen the thing should be 100% accurate.  The problem is I dunno if anyone is going to bother seeing as how nintendo's official policy is "put a crosshair in the game and use the default pointer function".  With that being said, it's a safe bet that the wiimote's performance is gonna be better than anything else offered anyway. 

Sadly the advancment of the tv is making a true lightgun impractical. 

[stephenp1983]

I haven't been around in a while but I just wanted to chime in right quick about the zapper.....

It's so-so..... not, good, but not great.  You definately need some sort of gun attachment to play the lightgun games though because without the ability to hold the wiimote by a 90 degree angle, it makes them less enjoyable.  I got the official one because of link's crossbow training and the low price.  It works well.... the analog stick is rather akward to use, but it has nothing to do with the placment and more to do with the fact that you are trying to aim the zapper and move around at the same time.  This would be true of any attachment that holds the nunchuck though. This shouldn't be an issue as true lightgun games won't require anything more than a few buttons.  I beleive the real reason for both controllers in the housing is the addition of two buttons for reloading and zooming, a feature required for ghost squad.  The whole rig seems directly based off of the ghost squad arcade guns actually.

I'll probably end up getting one of the pistol grips snake linked to as well.  They are cheap and will work well with re:uc, which apparently has a melee weapon controlled by shaking the nunchuck. 

LCT is a very rushed game.  It harkens back to duck hunt really.  No story, no intro, no nothing.  You just play the stages till time runs out and if you shoot well enough then you keep going.  It's worth the price, but no more.  I got it just for the game and I'm happy about that, but not overly impressed.

Anyway, the reason I wanted to chime in is because there's this whole "I can't use my nyko chargers with the zapper so I'm not buying one" b.s. floating around on the net.  It's just that, b.s. First off, because the nyko battery covers bulge out a bit it does make it impossible to lock it in place, but that is the case of ALL gun attachments, save maybe on made by nyco (do they have one yet?).  But the lack of common sense about this problem astounds me.  Yup the wiimote won't fit with the battery cover on it, so all you do is take the frikkin thing off!  No need to switch batteries or anything... once the cover is taken off the battery stays in place and the wiimote locks right in!  Even if you had soem kind of loose battery, the zapper housing itself would keep the batteries from flying out. 

So don't believe everything you read about this thing on the net, as some people are just dumb.   

I think that the zapper is something you are either gonna love or hate.  You need to try one really.

I want to also say that I have the nyko charger backings and can use them with the wii Zapper without a problem.  Sure they do not lock in, but they sit in place and function correctly without locking in.  The only difference I can tell is the trigger feels a little more clicky but it doesn't have an effect on gameplay.

[Wiibound]

It looks like House of the Dead 2 and 3 are coming to the Wii in Spring 2008
http://gameinfowire.com/news.asp?nid=11360

Cool.


I'd much rather see 4 making its way to any console anywhere, since I already have 2 on Dreamcast and Xbox, as well as 3 obviously on Xbox.

No sale for me, but I hope they do well, so we can see more light gun games making it out. It has always been a favorite genre of mine.


Not sure how I feel about the Wii being the new light gun platform though. Is the experience good enough with the Wiimote, that you aren't wishing you had a real light gun the whole time?

I understand that is kind of the point of this thread, but what I want to basically know is... Do you feel like you are settling for less with the Wiimote, as opposed to a real light gun?

the absolute truth is that the wiimote can be a true 100% authentic lightgun if the game lets you calibrate it correctly and you sit still, and that's enough for me since these games are like a buck in the arcade lol.

[versapak]

the absolute truth is that the wiimote can be a true 100% authentic lightgun if the game lets you calibrate it correctly and you sit still, and that's enough for me since these games are like a buck in the arcade lol.

If it is close enough, then that is good enough.

As long as I am not sitting there the whole time wishing I had a real light gun controller, then all is well.



I kind of wish I hadn't traded the Wii, with SMG and this little light gun revival...

Oh well. It was worth it for all those other great games that just hit on the 360. Hopefully the Wii will be more obtainable some time in the near future.

[Howard_Casto]

That's a misconception actually....  You can move around all you want, so long as it's not on the z axis (as in not forwards or backwards).  With better software functions, you could actually move on the z as well.....

See basically how an ir gun works is it "sees" the ir leds, notes their position on the camera's screen and applies that to moving the crosshair.  This simple measure the point's position bit works great until you move forwards and backwards, at which the points get larger/smaller and their distance from the center increases/decreases.  The wiimote is a full featured camera though, so this could be compensated for by calculating the size of the ir dots as well and using that as a scaler value. 

So no, the wiimote is perfectly capable of 100% accuracy period, it's just to do so would require some serious math and processing so I dunno if anybody will ever do it.

[danny_galaga]

It looks like House of the Dead 2 and 3 are coming to the Wii in Spring 2008
http://gameinfowire.com/news.asp?nid=11360

Cool.


I'd much rather see 4 making its way to any console anywhere, since I already have 2 on Dreamcast and Xbox, as well as 3 obviously on Xbox.

No sale for me, but I hope they do well, so we can see more light gun games making it out. It has always been a favorite genre of mine.

oooh! that is a definite sale for people like me, who have no other modern consoles. its settled then, straight after jesus birthday hopefully the wiis should be going cheaper  you guys in the US still having trouble finding them there? seems to be plenty of em here in teh futorz...

[Lilwolf]

The latest Resident Evil (umbrella something) is pretty good.  I haven't got that far but this is definately a gun game... not like most other RE games.

I'm not used to the shakes and button tabs to block... and I haven't got used to using the nunchuck controller to look around.  (not needed but you can look around corners)

[AcidArmitage]

I'm getting a wii soon so i wanna ask this question.


theoretically, couldnt you get 100% accuracy by adjusting the distance between the two IR leds in the sensor bar? either by putting them closer together or farther apart?

[patrickl]

theoretically, couldnt you get 100% accuracy by adjusting the distance between the two IR leds in the sensor bar? either by putting them closer together or farther apart?

Adjusted to what?

[AcidArmitage]

the size of the tv... bigger tv.. the more distance would be between the two leds

[shmokes]

after jesus birthday hopefully the wiis should be going cheaper  you guys in the US still having trouble finding them there? seems to be plenty of em here in teh futorz...

Dunno what they're charging down under, and maybe they're charging so much that they aren't flying off the shelves, so maybe.  But from what I can see of market conditions you'd be crazy to hope for a price drop any time soon.  If Nintendo drops the price by $50, they lose $50 million dollars on the next million Wiis sold.  So unless that price drop is going to increase sales enough to make up that $50 million dollars (and we're talking $50 million/month considering they're selling about a million units per month), they ain't dropping the price.  Considering that they can't keep the shelves stocked at its current pricepoint a price increase would be less surprising than a price decrease.

[danny_galaga]

ah, but dont tech companies factor in things like reducing price? after making the same product for some amount of time, the cost of development and tooling is covered and then profit is much better i thought. add to this the likely scenario of ps3 and xbox sales increasing, then a price drop seems even more logical.

anyway, i see your point too. so ill wait unitl the end of january. if prices were to increase, it wont be really soon i would imagine but if there is a price drop im hoping it would be after christmas. i also received a $96 gift voucher from work (represents 96%, the efficiency of mail delivery for the year). the voucher will work at big W, (something like kmart) who seem to have the cheapest prices for wiis already. so come new years, im going shopping (",)

[tommy]

after jesus birthday hopefully the wiis should be going cheaper 

 

[ChadTower]

ah, but dont tech companies factor in things like reducing price?

They also factor in motherboard revisions that reduce manufacturing costs as well as dropping prices on aging components (cpu, graphics chip, etc) over time.

Of course, I agree with shmokes, it would be idiotic to reduce the price when people are paying well over retail now.  If they raised the price $50 they would still be hard to get.

[Howard_Casto]

I'm getting a wii soon so i wanna ask this question.


theoretically, couldnt you get 100% accuracy by adjusting the distance between the two IR leds in the sensor bar? either by putting them closer together or farther apart?

umm no..  I'm not exactly a math wiz or anything but all you need are three points of reference to gauge position.  Where the two points are is irrelevant, you just need two and with the wiimote as a third, position can be judged.  As I've said twice in this thread already, but nobody seems to listen, any accuracy problems with the ir camera in the wiimote is purely a software issue.  It is fully capable of 100% accuracy now.  If anything (again, as I've already stated) moving the points around would REDUCE accuracy.  Since the wii sensor bar's leds are 7.5 inches apart, any software function can use the distance between the two points as a real world gauge of distance.  If you move em then it's guesswork. 

[danny_galaga]

I'm getting a wii soon so i wanna ask this question.


theoretically, couldnt you get 100% accuracy by adjusting the distance between the two IR leds in the sensor bar? either by putting them closer together or farther apart?

umm no..  I'm not exactly a math wiz or anything but all you need are three points of reference to gauge position.  Where the two points are is irrelevant, you just need two and with the wiimote as a third, position can be judged.  As I've said twice in this thread already, but nobody seems to listen, any accuracy problems with the ir camera in the wiimote is purely a software issue.  It is fully capable of 100% accuracy now.  If anything (again, as I've already stated) moving the points around would REDUCE accuracy.  Since the wii sensor bar's leds are 7.5 inches apart, any software function can use the distance between the two points as a real world gauge of distance.  If you move em then it's guesswork. 

yeah, seems to me that if it were based on trigonometry then yes having the IR thingos further apart would make it more acurate. but since there seem to be a few variables that the manufacturer couldnt count on (like the remotes distance from TV) then im guessing that the sensors have a 'sweet spot' and thats it. closer or further would make it less accurate...

[knave]

Just to chime in...I find that when I'm closer to the sensor bar, the wiimote is accurate but more sensitive.  It also tends to not point directly at the target onscrean.  When I'm further away it's still accurate but it takes more motion to move the cursor. And the wiimote seems to be pointing at it's target.

(of course the reason the wiimote doesn't point at the cursor when it's closer is that it's tracking the IR sensorbar not the screen. 

But I think it would work fine for a lightgun game but.  I also think that it would work best with a targeting cursor. (which is kinda cheating in some games.)

[igboo]

I've just spent the last couple of hours playing Ghost Squad with the zapper, and I'm pretty impressed with the accuracy.  The game does give you a calibration screen where you shoot top left and bottom right and then lets you turn off the reticule (sp?).  I haven't figured out how to do that in the Link's crossbow game.

I think I'll be looking to pick up another zapper if available so the son and I can play together.

[patrickl]

What I noticed about Ghost Squad is how slow the aim follows the Wiimote. Look over the wiimote (or zapper) and see how far behind the aiming reticule (or gun shots) are.

[danny_galaga]

anyway, i see your point too. so ill wait unitl the end of january. if prices were to increase, it wont be really soon i would imagine but if there is a price drop im hoping it would be after christmas. i also received a $96 gift voucher from work (represents 96%, the efficiency of mail delivery for the year). the voucher will work at big W, (something like kmart) who seem to have the cheapest prices for wiis already. so come new years, im going shopping (",)

i spoke too soon, looks like big W have sold out! other shops still have them but big W is cheaper (hence selling out i guess). still i'm sure they'll have more by january...

[shmokes]

A price drop still could happen.  For example, PS3 sales have started picking up.  Nintendo might sacrifice the extra profits per system-sale in order to slow Sony's momentum.  But that seems incredibly unlikely so long as demand is totally outstripping supply.  If they can't sell more consoles by lowering the price (because they're selling faster than they can be manufactured as it is), they can hardly hurt their competitor with a move like that. 

I can actually see how lowering the price could actually hurt the company's good-will, believe it or not.  Since they are already having supply-side issues, lowering the price would only make that problem bigger.  Demand would increase substantially, but supply would stay exactly the same.  I could see people wondering WTF Nintendo's problem is that a year after release they still haven't managed to get a handle on manufacturing their product.

[AtomSmasher]

I can actually see how lowering the price could actually hurt the company's good-will, believe it or not.  Since they are already having supply-side issues, lowering the price would only make that problem bigger.  Demand would increase substantially, but supply would stay exactly the same.  I could see people wondering WTF Nintendo's problem is that a year after release they still haven't managed to get a handle on manufacturing their product.

Nintendo stopped advertising in certain parts of the world (Europe I think) because of the shortage, they decided demand is too high already, so they shouldn't try to get it higher by advertising.  Theres no way Nintendo will lower the price until supply is able to meet the demand.

[Howard_Casto]

I'm getting a wii soon so i wanna ask this question.


theoretically, couldnt you get 100% accuracy by adjusting the distance between the two IR leds in the sensor bar? either by putting them closer together or farther apart?

umm no..  I'm not exactly a math wiz or anything but all you need are three points of reference to gauge position.  Where the two points are is irrelevant, you just need two and with the wiimote as a third, position can be judged.  As I've said twice in this thread already, but nobody seems to listen, any accuracy problems with the ir camera in the wiimote is purely a software issue.  It is fully capable of 100% accuracy now.  If anything (again, as I've already stated) moving the points around would REDUCE accuracy.  Since the wii sensor bar's leds are 7.5 inches apart, any software function can use the distance between the two points as a real world gauge of distance.  If you move em then it's guesswork. 

yeah, seems to me that if it were based on trigonometry then yes having the IR thingos further apart would make it more acurate. but since there seem to be a few variables that the manufacturer couldnt count on (like the remotes distance from TV) then im guessing that the sensors have a 'sweet spot' and thats it. closer or further would make it less accurate...

Huh?  How are you getting this?  First off, if you are too close the wiimote can't see the sensor regardless of the dot distance.  It's called your tv appears larger than the field of view.  Secondly the wiimote is a super high resolution camera.  It isn't a crappy 640x480 eyetoy, the device is capable of 1024x768 (maybe more from reports I've heard about extended mode).  For you to be so far back you'd loose accuracy you'd be so far back yoou couldn't see the screen.  To move dots further apart would simply mean you have to stand further back to get both dots in the shot (which is required for true tracking).  It would have absolutely, positively no effect on accuracy as you'd have to stand further back, thus it's a wider shot, thus there's less detail in the shot.  Common sense man.

So yes, of course  there is a "sweet spot"  it's called close enough so you can see the action yet far enough away that you can get the ir bar in the shot.  That doesn't mean the current bar ins't capable of calculating z distance and compensating for it though, it just means that there are physical limitations to ir sensors.  You can move a few feet in either direction and still get accurate tracking, it's just a matter of common sense.... you can't move more than a few fet forwards/back in the average living room anyway.

[slycrel]

If you're really feeling masochistic you can move the sensor bar off of your TV -- for any of your pure pointing interfaces it doesn't have to be there.  Right now I sometimes carry my wiimote around the house for various reasons.  At the main menu I can feel it vibrate as I go past a light source -- it's simply the IR light the camera is picking up.  Interesting stuff.  I wonder if the next wii will have better tech to get your position.

[danny_galaga]

Huh?  How are you getting this? 

i was just reffering to the fact that in trigonometry, the more acute the angle you are measuring, the less accurate you tend to be. i had no idea how the wii remote worked, so all i meant was that IF it were based on trigonometry then theoretically you should get a more accurate reading with a more obtuse angle. its a problem encountered when measuring the hight of objects, like rockets (bones will back me up  )