LCD Marquee Project: AKA "How to put even more money into an old Defender cab"

[mountain]

I like it! 

There are so many options for the top section. The hi score idea is a great one. An animated GIF of the machine's control panel pointing out the controls for each game selected would be sick!

Great job Randy!

[Wade]

It looks a lot better than I imagined, and the thought of (and your video) having a realtime marquee change (or change it during attract mode) is awesome!  The way you did it really makes it look like two separate things, I really don't think the average person would realize it's one LCD panel.

Would it be possible to literally remove half of the LCD panel and not render the bottom half useless?  Or is this impossible because of LCD technology?

One of these days, someone is going to make a 24x8 LCD panel, or something close.  When that happens, it will be a sweet day for MAME fans everywhere.

Cake is great, BTW - one of my favorite bands!

Wade

[patrickl]

The end result does look pretty cool.

Maybe having a full TV up on the marquee area wouldn't be a bad idea either. I could use a TV in my game room.

[shardian]

Would it be possible to literally remove half of the LCD panel and not render the bottom half useless?  Or is this impossible because of LCD technology?

Nope, not possible. It's not called a liquid crystal display just for kicks.

[Wade]

Would it be possible to literally remove half of the LCD panel and not render the bottom half useless?  Or is this impossible because of LCD technology?

Nope, not possible. It's not called a liquid crystal display just for kicks.

Well ya know, I'm not an LCD expert.   I thought it was possible that the displays were made up of many lines of liquid, so a break might be possible.

Wade

[dstone]

That is a curious idea... I do wonder if it would be possible to cut off the bottom of the LCD (the ones that I have worked on have had their connectors at the tops); would it not be similar to a cracked display? It would make for an interesting experiment...

Not a very good example, but...: http://www.laptoprepairdirect.com/images/brokenlcdlmed.jpg

Notice how an image is still visible around the cracked areas? That makes me wonder if it would be possible to physically remove a section of the screen (not that I'd want to try that, but if someone already had a cracked screen that still somewhat worked).

[patrickl]

I broke an LCD screen once, but kept using the device until I got a replacement. Over time the "black" stuff leaked all over (inside) the screen till ultimately the whole screen was black. so at first it looks cracked with many parts still visible, but I think it will become completely useless over time.

[ChadTower]

There is absolutely no way it could be done.  It wouldn't be much easier than cutting the bottom half off a CRT without destroying it.

I can't believe he's getting negative feedback for this.  This is a major step in a great direction.  Many of us have talked about doing this but someone actually did it and has it working.  Are we so stuck in one specific hole that we can't consider changing the shape of a cab to accommodate something this great?  You could do anything with that - you could play music videos, attract mode video, keep the current game or high score tables, you could make a set of eyeballs that watch you and rotate back and forth, taunting you pinball style according to certain game events.  Hell, scroll sports scores across it from a net feed.

[dstone]

There is absolutely no way it could be done.

Are we so stuck in one specific frame of thought that we can't consider other ways of modifying the LCD screen? There is always a way to do something, it's just a matter of finding the proper steps to do it. So you've cut the bottom of the screen off, but the liquid starts to leak out... seal it with something. It's one big experiment, just like anything else that's done here. True, in the end, it might be a cheaper/easier solution to simply modify the marquee size instead of the LCD. But you never truly know until you try.

[shardian]

Would it be possible to literally remove half of the LCD panel and not render the bottom half useless?  Or is this impossible because of LCD technology?

Well I'll be damned. Apparently it is possible to cut down existing lcd panels...
http://www.symbolicdisplays.com/LCD_glass.html
No clue what it would cost though.

If I had to guess though, it would be an extremely difficult and tedious job.

[edge]

Randy - nice job.  I had a hard time visualizing it until I saw your final pic.  It looks awesome - and the silver framing around the topper really does make your mind think it is 2 seperate peices.

So when will the kits be available at GGG?

[ChadTower]

Are we so stuck in one specific frame of thought that we can't consider other ways of modifying the LCD screen?

There is a dramatic difference between changing the shape of a wooden box and trying to fundamentally alter miniaturized display technology.

This is where you look at a simple to implement, new concept, and think hrm... the bottleneck here is a piece of wood.  Let's change the wood and go in a better direction rather than crap on the idea because it doesn't fit my 25 year old wooden box.

[RandyT]

Thanks for all the comments.

RE: Cutting an LCD panel.

I don't doubt at all that it's possible.    But is it possible for you to do it on your kitchen table with a glass cutter from the local hardware store? I worked in the precision optics manufacturing industry for about 10 years and did more than my share of glass cutting... and I'm no stranger to electronics.  Even I wouldn't risk an investment of several hundred dollars attempting something like this.

There are lots of things to consider.  Is a clean room environment necessary?  Will the liquid crystal ooze out as soon as you make the cut? Will whatever sealing agent you attempt to use on the edge actually retain the liquid, and if it does, will it eventually contaminate it to the point that it stops working properly a week or two afterwards?  Can you handle re-routing circuitry that may be present on the edge of the panel, as well as deal with the possibility that the image may need to be rotated to accommodate whatever the layout of the hardware may have forced you to change?

It's also likely that the service offered by this company is restricted to instrumentation displays.  That usually means small.  Not to mention that the word "inexpensive" as used in the field of instrumentation is probably about 10x what you might think is inexpensive   If I were to venture a guess as to what this company would charge to cut down my LCD in a "one-off" situation, I'd say that I would be looking at somewhere between $1200 and $1800 dollars.  But email is free, so see what they say

RandyT

[Knievel]

Good job Randy, nice to see someone finally try this. 

I think a cabinet designed around this idea would be very cool.

[mountain]

Has anyone here ever seen one of these? 



I think it would look good centered in the marquee area with themed artwork from the cabinet in the areas around it.  They are $300 for two on eBay.


■Product Name：12.2 inch sun-visor LCD monitor

■Screen Type: TFT LCD HITACHI             

■Screen size: 12.2" (25/8)

■Blue Screen: Screen become blue when no signal

■Pixel: 1024 (W) x 310 (H) RGB                     

■System: PAL/NTSC

■Supply voltage: DC 12V                           

■Power: 21W

■Dimension: 360mm (W) x 24mm(D) x 150mm (H)

[unclet]

Very nice job ...... 

What program were you using to get the voice to move the lines on the top portion of the display? 

[GadgetGeek]

Nicely done.  I guess now when you host kareoke nite, you can scroll the lyrics across the top for everyone to enjoy.

[RandyT]

What program were you using to get the voice to move the lines on the top portion of the display? 

Just Winamp with the "FunkyFX" Visualization.  That one doesn't do a lot, but this particular effect works well and it creates a border-less, re-sizable window to run in.  Other windowed vizualizations work well too, but the border needs to be hid outside the screen area.

RandyT

[ChadTower]

Has anyone here ever seen one of these? 

That has been suggested but not tried yet.  I think the size presents issues similar to this one in that you'd have to account for it in the cab design or work around it like Randy is... but still, definitely possible with some ingenuity.

[AcidArmitage]

get one for a hummer... then itll be the right size 

[RandyT]

Even the largest "visor" LCD available (the 12.2") is only 3.75" x 11.5"  or very close to the size of a piece of letter paper folded in half lengthwise.  Unless you are building a countertop cabinet, I think it would suffer the same look  as a 13" monitor does in a cabinet large enough to house a 27".

The problem we have is that there are 100,000x more vehicles with visors than there are arcade cabinets that need marquee sized LCD panels.  In case anyone has ever wondered why 13" LCD TV's cost as much as 26" LCD TVs, it's because usually only oddballs who absolutely need a 13" for some reason are the ones buying them.  Therefore, they end up absorbing a higher percentage of the tooling and manufacturing costs per unit than the majority who will want a larger, more common size.

IOW, we are screwed 

RandyT

[BobA]

Great work Randy.  Someone has to reach out and explore the boundaries of our comfort zone.   Your initial work in this area could be the catalyst for a whole new generation of LCD enhanced cabs.

[ChadTower]

Still, you could do some cool things in that same space with two 12" LCDs.  Think outside the box for the display possibilities... I think many people are really suffering from tunnel vision on what can be done here.  There is more than we've come up with so far.  Rather than sit around trying to find ways to make a marquee shaped LCD we would be better served to rethink how that area of a cabinet is used and take advantage of the LCDs to do things that never would have been possible 20 years ago.

[Sidgoop]

Bravo, sir.  Bravo.

[patrickl]

Think outside the box for the display possibilities... I think many people are really suffering from tunnel vision on what can be done here. 

Why do you keep insisting that there are only negative remarks? I have seen one remark that could be taken as negative, but even there it was praised as a cool idea.

Besides, people are actually thinking about the possibilities

[arcadefever]

  very nice

this is the futur for a new Marquee generation ....

 

[Spyridon]

Excellent work!  I like it just the way it is, especially with the silver around it.  I can really envision showing the controls for each game on the top with instructions.

[ChadTower]

Why do you keep insisting that there are only negative remarks?

Haven't said that or implied it, bro.  I'm expressing surprise that there is any negative feedback on this.

[MikeQ]

An interesting approach would be to use an LCD projector or possibly build and overhead LCD projector from an LCD panel with a mirror and some optics.  You could project the images onto the marquee area only and mask off the rest.  The system could reside in the space above the monitor and project from behind. 

[bfauska]

An interesting approach would be to use an LCD projector or possibly build and overhead LCD projector from an LCD panel with a mirror and some optics.  You could project the images onto the marquee area only and mask off the rest.  The system could reside in the space above the monitor and project from behind. 

Been done

The downside is the same as any projector in a strong ambient light situation, low contrast and potentially washed out images.  In the dark it's really cool though.


I wonder if a cabinet with the marquee part of the LCD at the top and the instruction panel for your controls at the bottom would look a little more natural.  I think for a scrolling display or some sort of auxiliary display with high scores or music visualization having the marquee at the bottom makes sense, but with one half as an "instruction card/controls example" a different layout would be beneficial.

I think that a little bartop like Lew's galaga, or one of psychotech's with the visor LCD would be way too freaking cool.  Anybody got a few hundred bucks burning a hole in their pocket for a bartop marquee?


Cool project Randy.

[patrickl]

An interesting approach would be to use an LCD projector or possibly build and overhead LCD projector from an LCD panel with a mirror and some optics.  You could project the images onto the marquee area only and mask off the rest.  The system could reside in the space above the monitor and project from behind. 

Been done

The downside is the same as any projector in a strong ambient light situation, low contrast and potentially washed out images.  In the dark it's really cool though.

A projector with a lamp (instead of leds) would produce enough light. Many projectors work fine in daylight even projected on a huge area. Let alone when it's projected on something as small as a marquee. I'd worry about the lamp dying often and the heat and sound though.

Either way I'd say an LCD would be more practical.

I really love the idea. I'm pretty sure if I ever actually get a cab built I will put a TV up there too. It will save me a marquee print

[ChadTower]

I'd say a projector would have too many issues with alignment, focus, etc... they're not small or inexpensive, either, and can be noisy with strong ventilation requirements.  Plus the bulb runs out.  In the absence of LCDs, projectors would be the best way to do this, but with all of the various LCDs out there I just don't see a reason for it to be more viable for a marquee.

Now, I could think of half a dozen really cool ways to use a projector in a cab, just not for the marquee.  Imagine a Dragon's Lair type setup with the secondary monitor up above but projected on the wall 8' wide.

[shardian]

Why do you keep insisting that there are only negative remarks? I have seen one remark that could be taken as negative, but even there it was praised as a cool idea.

Besides, people are actually thinking about the possibilities

Chad's just taking the high horse because I beat him to his usual Debbie Downer role.

I spoke before the final product was unveiled, mainly because I just didn't like the direction it was going.
The more I think about this, the more I like it.

[ChadTower]

Chad's just taking the high horse because I beat him to his usual Debbie Downer role.

    

This is actually a concept Randy and I have discussed in main multiple times.  I've never been in a position to give it a shot but I'm ecstatic to see that he is doing it.  I'm excited about this one.  I am of the opinion that all of the next round of strong innovations in DIY cabs are going to come from LCD usage, just like the last round came from new lighting methods (much of it thanks to Randy) and the round before that came from front end development.  Front ends really gave cabs a strong usability to versatility ratio, the LED capabilities in CPs gave cabs strong eye candy... the LCD round, though, that's where the real eye popping "holy crap" innovations will be found.

[theCoder]

Very cool idea.  The top portion does look a bit out of place however.  What about:

1)  Embrace the fact that it is a monitor, and extend the marquee area.  This would "just" take a little wood, bondo, and time.

2) Cover the top section up with a simulated speaker area.  I've got a this cab in my garage.  It has a large speaker section up top.

Either way, very nice use of the technology.  Thanks for the hacking documentation.

[Wade]

You know, a cabinet shaped like that could offer another possibility of hiding the lower half of the marquee instead of the top half... (behind the bezel/glass - inside the cabinet).

Wade

[ChadTower]

Meh, if you're going to do that, which I think is a good route, don't hide any of the LCD.  Why limit yourself just because they were always shaped that way?

[FrizzleFried]

Just get a Mappy (or build one)...



...and then you can just use a full sized LCD...

[RandyT]

You know, a cabinet shaped like that could offer another possibility of hiding the lower half of the marquee instead of the top half... (behind the bezel/glass - inside the cabinet).

I think it's a good design for someone looking for an Active Marquee™, but who still wants to maintain the classic look.  I actually considered the concept of burying the rest of the display behind the CRT area in that kind of cabinet, but two things bothered me.  One is that I never cared much for cabinet designs that are angled too far upward without the overhang.  They tend to get more reflections, although if the angle isn't too extreme, I think it might be ok.

The other is that it would drive me nuts knowing that I buried 40% of the usable screen space

RandyT

[blueznl]

Damn, nice idea, looks great!