So Whats Better On a CTR TV Act Labs or LCD TopGun?

[lettuce]

As title really, i know that the Act Labs are ALOT easier to setup than the LCD's, as i understand that these can be a bit of a pain in the arse to setup and then calibrate for each game, but when you actually have both guns set up working which one is best for MAME??

[ARTIFACT]

the eternal question!

(see my thread posted recently ... an attempt at getting the final 'verdict' on lightguns ... i am as confusd as before if not more ... )

[Green Giant]

That question is pretty much impossible to tell for sure.

Most people that buy the topguns like them and will never purchase the actlab.  I have the lcd ones and I am really happy with them.  Same goes for the other way around.  Generally, people that really dislike one of them had problems and purchased the other one.

[JoeB]

Isn't the bottom line that neither solution is perfect?

As far as I understand it, Act Labs has issues with getting the corners registered, and needs a nice bright picture.  Where as the LCD TopGun has the added "ugly" LED bars (which don't look that good if you want an authentic look to your MAME machine) as well as the need to stand REALLY REALLY far away from the machine for it to work correctly
(much further than one normally did on the real machine).

[ChicagoDave]

Having experience with both, my vote right now would be for the Act labs guns, simply because I cannot get the LCD Topguns to work reliably.  I'm gettting closer, but still can't make them "dependable".

The Act Labs Guns worked great right out of the box.

I finally can get my dual Top Guns recognized by Windows, but in the middle of a game (HOTD 3 for example), they simply loose their USB connection.  I even hear the "double bell" from windows as if the USB cable was removed.  I already have the recoil disabled on both of the guns (that seemed to resolve a lot of the BSOD problems I had previously), but I still keep having issue after issue.

My hunch is that the problems are somehow related to USB power, but I'm still testing.

[steveh]

 has any one attempted to use wii remotes for this yet?

[ahofle]

has any one attempted to use wii remotes for this yet?

I'm waiting for a higher quality LED-bar solution like the wiimotes too.  I figured it would be a matter of time before something similar is available.

Also, FWIW I used to have the Act Labs TV light guns back when I had a TV in my cabinet and they worked great (I miss them actually).  About the only real problem I hear with the Act Labs guns is the ridiculous price.

[steveh]

since i have a wii, i will attempt to incorporate it into my build.. i figure something like this would work nicely

[AcidArmitage]

guncon2!

[lettuce]

I finally can get my dual Top Guns recognized by Windows, but in the middle of a game (HOTD 3 for example), they simply loose their USB connection.  I even hear the "double bell" from windows as if the USB cable was removed. 

Have you checked your USB settings in power management?? Theres an option to set the USB to sleep mode after a while, which sounds like what your USB's are doing??

[ChicagoDave]

I finally can get my dual Top Guns recognized by Windows, but in the middle of a game (HOTD 3 for example), they simply loose their USB connection.  I even hear the "double bell" from windows as if the USB cable was removed.

Have you checked your USB settings in power management?? Theres an option to set the USB to sleep mode after a while, which sounds like what your USB's are doing??

Wouldn't something like that kick in during idle time?  My problem happens during full action, that's what makes me think it's actually a power load problem.  BTW,  I'm using a 7 port Belkin hub and a MSI K8N NEO2-F motherboard.  The hub has both guns and the LED bar plugged into it.  I just bought an external power adatper today to plus the LEDs into to see if that will take some of the load off of the hub. 

I will test it and see...

[superbigjay]

ChicagoDave,

is your belkin hub has a power supply?
are you using it?
How many amps can it supply?

[ChicagoDave]

ChicagoDave,

is your belkin hub has a power supply?
are you using it?
How many amps can it supply?

Yes, it has a power supply and it is connected.  I'm not sure off hand how many amps it is, I'll have to check this.  Hopefully the external power supply for the light bars takes some load off of it.

[ChicagoDave]

Some updates to this:

1) I tried plugging the LED bar into a secondary power adapter.  The adapter was 5V and 2500 ma.  The Topgun instructions said that it requied 5V and AT LEAST 600 ma.  I didn't think this would be a problem.    It was.  I fried my LED bar.  Now, the on/off LED barely lights up and the bar does not seem to function at all.  Since I bough two guns, I had a spare bar, so I'm using that one now (through USB of course).

2) I now plugged the guns directly into the computer as opposed to the hub.  They seem to be working fine now, except that off screen does not seem to be working at all.  It did work before.  The disconnect issue seems to be resolved.  To get around the off screen reload problem I enabled "auto reload" in the Troubleshooter.

I'm making progress, but these guns are still a big headache....

[ARTIFACT]

I am tempted to order an Act Labs PC USB VGA gun... They have a 30 days money back return policy anyway ... I do not mind spending a little more ($97 + $10 shipping) because of the return policy. I think I'll order it in a week or so, and I'll post results on BYOAC in my project thread when I receive it and test it.

[brandon]

Do the Act Lab guns track in real time for games like Terminator 2?  The old ones would only update the cursor with each trigger press..  sort of sucks for T2 or operation Wolf..

[ahofle]

Do the Act Lab guns track in real time for games like Terminator 2?  The old ones would only update the cursor with each trigger press..  sort of sucks for T2 or operation Wolf..

No, but then again those weren't light gun games.

[brandon]

Do the Act Lab guns track in real time for games like Terminator 2?  The old ones would only update the cursor with each trigger press..  sort of sucks for T2 or operation Wolf..

No, but then again those weren't light gun games.

Thats true,,,  but the Guncons track in realtime whether you have the trigger pressed or not.  I'm assuming that the Topguns do this as well since they are guncon compatible.  A review on IGN.com makes me wonder though..

An even bigger problem in Time Crisis III was the fact that there was some sort of sync issue between the gun and the game. Crisis Zone is based upon machine guns in full auto, while the TopGun naturally shoots single shots.We switched the gun to full auto mode[...]the game only seemed to register hits about 25% of the time, spaced apart about equally to the TopGun's recoil action.[...] we couldn't pull the trigger fast enough to work with the machinegun mechanic that the game is based upon[...] which left the game somewhat unplayable.

Single shot games like House of the Dead III and Time Crisis II were fine, though we also discovered that after a solid half hour of blasting, the recoil slide is prone to getting a little stuck and not completing its motion. When this happens the gun shoots at a slower pace. Pulling the slide back manually made it work perfectly once again. At first we figured we'd be able to burn the recoil mechanic out within a few days, but after the better part of a week it's still going strong. It is true that small motors and solenoids don't last forever, so it may be a problem down the road. We'll update if ours breaks.

sounds like the actual 'trigger' is inside of the slide mechanism.  when you press the trigger it activates the slide which then slides back and hits a switch internally which send the trigger pull to the game.  I guess that's how the keep everything in sync with the feedback... strange..


http://gear.ign.com/articles/689/689009p1.html

[steveh]

With house of the dead heading to the wii http://kotaku.com/gaming/zombies/sega-confirms-house-of-the-dead-wii-collection-323926.php

and games like ghost squad, and resident evil umbrella chronicals.  i think we are seeing the "reinvention" of the lightgun on the wii. i have picked up one of the newly released zappers, and although it seams  a little clunky (there should be a handgun model,   it works great.   

This gives me even more certainty that wii-motes with the proper drivers (since they are blue tooth) will work fantastically on the pc for these types of games...  ill have to do some research and see if the wii-mote drivers are available yet.   

But on the other hand,  If they keep releasing these games on the wii... i might not need to get one setup in the arcade.

[brandon]

true.. and there are other 3rd party gun shells for the wii remote that are handgun shaped.. and of course since the wii uses a sensor bar perhaps the Wii could be connected to an arcade monitor?  not sure if it has RGB out or not.. hopefully it does

[steveh]

just like the lcd top gun (i think)   The wii mote is positional.  It has nothing to do with the screen.  It is entirely positional, based on the position of the wii mote in relation to the led's in the light bar.  you can read more on it here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_Remote#Functionality

It uses blue tooth to transmit, and for any one who has a wii, this could be an inexpensive way to add gun functionality to an arcade cab

[brandon]

just like the lcd top gun (i think)   The wii mote is positional.  It has nothing to do with the screen.  It is entirely positional, based on the position of the wii mote in relation to the led's in the light bar.  you can read more on it here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_Remote#Functionality

It uses blue tooth to transmit, and for any one who has a wii, this could be an inexpensive way to add gun functionality to an arcade cab

I meant connect the Wii console to an arcade monitor.. so you could play House of the Dead and Unbrella Chronicles in my cabinet... not sure if the Wii can output RGB at 15khz

EDIT:  I guess not..

http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/gamescart/gamescart.htm#wii

[steveh]

o.. my bad.  i was figuring on the other way around hehe

[brandon]

well.. if the Wii remote could work better than the LCD Topguns for Mame then that'd be sweet too!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp1_pZ-AteA[/youtube]



Then there is always the Guncon3 which is also USB like the Guncon2.. maybe a driver could be made for it since it uses IR sensors...

[steveh]

well i think this nyko gun will fit the ticket nicely.

one of these days ill get the drivers, and mess with the wii motes and tell ya what i find out.  unless someone beats me to the punch.




http://www.amazon.com/Nyko-87030-Wii-Perfect-Shot/dp/B000X2RKOO
http://www.nyko.com/nyko/products/?i=124

[brandon]

ooh.. that looks awesome!

[Dartful Dodger]

Why doesn't any of the Wii light guns have front sights?

[brandon]

good point!  maybe because all the games have on screen sights   I always "shoot from the hip" myself.. but its good to have a sight for calibration

[Dartful Dodger]

Is there a way to turn off the screen sights?

Do all games have the screen sights?

[brandon]

I dunno.. Im just basing this off of screen shots.. I dont have a Wii

[Dartful Dodger]

I dunno.. Im just basing this off of screen shots.. I dont have a Wii

I was debating on getting the Wii.  That light gun/remote holder closed the debate for me, even without a front sight.

Screen sights always on will reopen the debate.

[steveh]

http://www.amazon.com/Wii-Infarred-Laser-Magnum-Gun/dp/B000VSA5Y2/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1196346702&sr=1-2

are you talking about a laser sight?  like this one?, although it is not designed right.  (the nunchuck should not be the trigger.)

[steveh]

I picked up 2 of these, and they seam to work well on the wii..   again... one of these days ill try to interface the wii mote with the pc and let you know what i get.

[Daniel B.]

in resident evil and links crossbow training the cursor is visible on the screen and you "shoot from the hip" in ghost squad, you recalibrate the screen/wiimote for that specific game so it works like a normal light gun IE: "look down the barrel"

There are many wii drivers for windows xp. I haven't tried it myself but one would think this will be possible, either now or the NEAR future.