Is legal (moral, ethical) modify Emumovies snap videos without permission?

[Cananas]

Well, in this forum (spanish):
http://marcianitos.org/foro/showthread.php?t=7267

A guy is cutting the console movies to make it shorter and he is uploading on DivShare.
It seems that Circo has no been asked for permission.
The question is: Is that legal ethic?


EDIT: modified the titlle to seems less categorical.

[gonzo90017]

Those have been "edited" by me. I have no idea why it's bugging you so much. Like I told you there. Those were edited for MY project.  I decided to upload them on divshare since I thought everyone could benefit from them. I DO NOT SELL THEM. IM NOT MAKING ANY PROFIT WHAT SO EVER. I CLEARLY STATE THAT THEY ARE FROM Emumovies.

Yet you decide to come here and ask about the "legallity". This coming from a guy who is a Forum Moderator at Link removed by saint -- don't post links to ROMs and ISOs please that offers links to roms and Isos among other pirated software which they upload at Megaupload. Which last I heard is a big NO NO.

[Cananas]

I only said there and here that you would must get a permission from Circo to upload your videos to people can download them. The rest of your post is rubbish.

[DaveMMR]

I'll be honest in saying I don't specifically know what the movies are in question.  Are they emu movies (i.e. gameplay in action)?  If so, the legal copyright holders (the game companies) are the ones with the legal rights to the footage, not whoever recorded it and popped it online.  It's one of those gray areas, but the person who originally made them has no ownership to them, he or she just recorded something (and gonzo edited it further).

If it's original content, then gonzo may have had to seek permission. 

I am not a lawyer, good night everyone! 

[gonzo90017]

Here's my original post translated to english:

What's up everyone. I created this post to let everyone know of a project i'm working on for mame and other consoles. I found a website called divshare where you can post videos, pictures, and archives and as long as you register, they should stay online forever! (the one thing I don't know is how much bandwidth you are permitted each month)

Objective: Make Mame and Console Previews available to everyone
Video will be from 10-30 seconds in length
Most of the Console videos used will be from Emumovies
Most of the mame videos used are from Crashtest's original videos which are MNG's but already encoded using the Xvid codec. (Very High Quality)

Here's the first batch:
Atari 2600 DivShare File - atari_2600.txt
Atari 5200 DivShare File - Atari_5200.txt
Atari 7800 DivShare File - Atari_7800.txt
Atari Jaguar DivShare File - Atari_Jaguar.txt
Sega Master System DivShare File - Sega_Master_System.txt
Turbo Duo DivShare File - Turbo_Duo.txt
Neo Geo Pocket DivShare File - Neo_Geo_Pocket.txt
Daphne Laser Disc DivShare File - Daphne.txt

What I would like to know from everyone is what would be a good way to split the videos. With the 2600 videos it was pretty easy since they are pretty small to begin with so they only needed 2 zip files, 7 and 6mb each. The reason I ask is because I know not everyone enjoys a high speed connection. Some videos are not named properly and are missing the ()
Right now i'm looking into a program that let's you look inside of zip files so people only download what they need.

[Cananas]

Can you tell me why can't you ask Circus to get his permision to use his videos.

I am not a lawyer, but I think it would be good if you follow the way of the fair play, asking Circo.

[gonzo90017]

I only said there and here that you would must get a permission from Circo to upload your videos to people can download them. The rest of your post is rubbish

What part of my post is rubbish. The part where you're a Moderator at a Forum that has links to roms and isos? Did you get permission from all those game companies? Or how about those links to cracks for software? You don't seem to have any trouble with that.

Can you tell me why can't you ask Circus to get his permision to use his videos.

I thought you sent him an e-mail. But no, instead you're going everywhere you can to try and rally people around youre cause. And like I said, it was a personal project that I decided to share with everyone.

With you it's just another "Pot calling the kettle black"

[Cananas]

You don't answer my question: Why can't you ask Circus to get his permision to use his videos.

Of course I sent an e-mail. And I wrote a PM. And I wrote here because I know Circo read that forum. What is the problem with this?.

And again, the other things you said are false, and don't fit with this post.

[gonzo90017]

Here's an example of what I have done

Before: DivShare File - Aladdin__UE__[!].avi

After:    DivShare File - Aladdin__UE__[!].avi

As you can see all I did was cut the intro which cut around 47 seconds

Just with the Sega Master System I cut the size from the orginal 780mb to the a new size of 483mb!

So that's basically what the guy is crying about  

You didn't answer my questions either. Do you or do you not have links to roms and Isos? And cracks to software?

[Cananas]

Here's an example of what I have done

Before: DivShare File - Aladdin__UE__[!].avi

After:    DivShare File - Aladdin__UE__[!].avi

As you can see all I did was cut the intro which cut around 47 seconds

Just with the Sega Master System I cut the size from the orginal 780mb to the a new size of 483mb!

So that's basically what the guy is crying about  

You didn't answer my questions either. Do you or do you not have links to roms and Isos? And cracks to software?

Oh yes, funny boy.

I don't have any problem with your work. But if you want shorter videos with 22KHz instead of 44KHz you have 2 options:

1- make YOUR OWN videos from the begining. Oh, yes. You tell us in marcianitos that this is too much work for you!

2- If you want to use the other's works, please ask them for permission.

Finally, to question. please, pay attention: NO, NO, and NO. Happy? Now, please could your answer mine?:

Why don't you want to ask Circus to get his permision to use his work, his time... his videos??


EDIT: I have edit the first post. Now it says what I want to express. Not exactly legal. More Ethic, moral thing.

[Circo]

All right, every chill out for a second.....

My videos are freely distributed, I appreciate that he mentions the website.  In the past most folks have ran redistribution by me and I have always said ok, but that is just a matter of being polite.  Unfortunately you can not copyright hard work and I think I would have a hard time trying to prove that a mario video is my property.  Now here is the only issue (if you can call it that) I have been doing the same exact thing in between working on the mame set.  I have been re-editing all of the old sets to be 30 sec clips 22k 20-25 sec of gameplay, cropped and all that.  Also changing naming conventions to no-intro and verifying non no intro sets since naming has been an issue.  I hate to see double work done is all.   

Cananas, thanks for looking out for me, I really appreciate it! 

Gonzo90017, I have no issues with what your doing, maybe you might want to help out a bit or I could browse through your edits and it might save me some time.  I am real picky about quality, more so now than when I started this project.  So I would like to know your process.  Let me know!

Now everyone get along!!! 

[gonzo90017]

Cananas: Ok you still deny  that you distribute illegal material. That's ok the proof is in the link. People can see it with there own eyes.  Oh yeah, get a life.

Circo: I'm glad you're not offended.  Just don't know why this guy had to go across the web globe to criticize me. Like I said before this was just something I was doing in my free time and decided to share it with everyone else instead of keeping it to myself. I didn't see anything wrong with it. Except till this guy came along. I have been posting these videos since August 13 and never got one complain.

You can check out the videos in the link above. All I have done is just remove the intros and if the gameplay is too long remove some more. I have not re-encoded any of the videos. Since as you know it reduces the quality of the video. The people that run no-intro screenshot archive have asked me to name them in the no-intro naming convention so I will be doing that shortly. I have about 8 systems to go. So I might be finished by this time next week. Let me know what you think.

[Circo]

Sounds good, although I am still keeping the intros 5 sec or so, so I probably would not use them.  Also many are being completely redone (25% in the case of super nintendo) and they are all in xvid now instead of divx for compatability.

You may want to let them know that the official packs are going no intro as well.  And as long as you reference the source and note your modifications I am cool with it.

And give Cannanas a break, he is just looking out for me and understands that I work on these sets like a full time job.  And I work 50+ hours a week at my real job to boot    EmuMovies is used almost like a brand these days (kinda cool if you ask me) but I really do not have any legal right and they have been redistributed plenty but most folks do ask first.  But like I said, not a huge deal to me, but I have been trying to work with the no intro folks but have never recieved a response.

[gonzo90017]

You may want to let them know that the official packs are going no intro as well.  And as long as you reference the source and note your modifications I am cool with it.

They have known since the beginning about the modifications and source. And don't worry i'll let them know tonight.

EmuMovies is used almost like a brand these days (kinda cool if you ask me) but I really do not have any legal right and they have been redistributed plenty but most folks do ask first.  But like I said, not a huge deal to me,

If I knew that he was going to make a big fuzz about it I would've done it from the begining. But I didn't think it was a big deal. And apparently he's the only one.

[Howard_Casto]

Gonzo, you aren't getting it, that is just disrespectful.  It's one thing if you can't get ahold of the person in question and the stuff seems to be abandoned, but when it's an active project, you should always ask permission.  It isn't a matter of legality or morality but of respect.  The emuMovies project is circo's baby!  You wouldn't "borrow" somebody's baby without asking would you?

So know he's (I assume you mean Cananas?) not the only one.  The thing is, for the most part, people around here aren't going to pick a fight over something like this so they are afraid to say anything.  Luckily, I'm not one of those people.    

I'm not trying to start a fight, you and Circo seem to be ok and that is the important thing, but I get the impression from that reply that you think you did nothing wrong and Cananas is in the wrong.  Nothing could be further from the truth. 

Sorry to butt in.......  everyone else go back to your business.

[gonzo90017]

No problem Howard. You've been around this scene long enough. You've earned the right to butt in wherever you please.

And you're right you did get the right impression. I don't think i've done anything wrong. I just didn't think it was a big deal. It was a personal project that instead of keeping to myself I decided to share with everyone. I gave credit were credit was due, and never claimed them as my own.

I'm sure the reason othe people haven't said anything isn't because they're afraid. I'm sure it's because they're thinking the same thing I was which is what's the big deal?

[SGT]

The thing is, for the most part, people around here aren't going to pick a fight over something like this so they are afraid to say anything.

Uh no.  This thread never belonged in this forum.  Most people figured that Circo could speak for himself which he did.

Luckily, I'm not one of those people.

Luckily for who?

[Havok]

Ignore Howard - he forgot to up his dose of happy pills...

 

[Cakemeister]

Personally, I just want Circo, CDBrown, Silver and myself to be given credit for the MAME vids. Circo and CD worked especially hard to edit the raw video and they deserve credit prominently displayed on whatever website redistributes them. It's not that difficult to give credit where credit is due.

I don't think anyone needs permission to distribute them. Like Howard said, it is about respect and credit, not permission.