ipac, jpac, trackball and confusion

[gedman]

I'm a newbie, and a bit confused on i-pac vs. j-pac for my particular situation.

I have an arcade with a 25" arcade monitor and a JAMMA harness - so I figured that I was all set for an easy MAME install using a j-pac.  My goal is to have 2 joysticks, 6 buttons per joystick, and a single trackball.

But then I discovered two things: 1) j-pac doesn't handle trackball, and 2) my JAMMA connector has no wires for several positions (because the game that was originally in the cabinet doesn't use joysticks, so the harness has no wires in those positions on the JAMMA connector).

I think these are my two options:

1) If I proceed with j-pac, then I have to figure out how to add wires to an existing JAMMA connector (is that even possible?) and I'll need to figure out how to connect the trackball via a separate interface (is that the opti-pac?). j-pac would easily feed my PC video to the arcade monitor, which is good.

2) If I proceed with i-pac, then I'll have to figure out how to feed the video signal from my PC to my arcade monitor.

Advice is appreciated!

Gedman




 

[baritonomarchetto]

I-pac is n expensive keyboard hardware emulator. Nothing else. It's not the right choice for you. It's best suited for home made arcade joysticks and/or bartops. J-pac is a (again, expensive) jamma to PC interface, so it's ok for you (even with limits); in addition you are in the need for some interface for the trackball and an audio amplifier. Jammasd would be a better solution, but i am not sure it's available in USA.
Not sure what are the commercial solutions to interface an optical hardware to the Pc (but for sure they are expensive )being that i tend to create fully functional (cheap) arcade interfaces myself with arduino

[CheffoJeffo]

Interesting ... at least the part about the joysticks not being populated since that is the very first thing to consider. Is it worth rewiring your machine to a new harness?

My personal choice would be to do put in a new harness -- it is easy and clean (I wouldn't bother trying to jam new wires into an existing harness -- more trouble than it is worth), but limits your encoder interface options (JPac and JammASD would be the obvious choices to handle everything except the trackball. IPac not an option). Then you need an interface for the trackball (like an OptiPac or buy a trackball with the interface built-in).

I've always used JPacs in situations like this and love them, but JammASD may be more convenient (I bought a bunch of audio amp kits years ago, so that aspect of the JammASD is not really important to me). I'm not sure that there is a big disparity in price as the poster above implies, but I am always suspect of technically-minded people who are happy to spend the time on a DIY and have little experience with the products at hand.

If you don't care about keeping the cabinet JAMMA, you can just pull out the old harness and rewire from scratch. Then you would have a full range of encoder options (including IPac, as well as other options that can handle the trackball as well, like an IPac Ultimate I/O). You can use a hacked VGA cable and perhaps a video amp to connect to the arcade monitor (both available from, say, Ultimarc).

In either event, video conversion at the PC side may be required.

It may seem overwhelming, but you probably still have some research to do vis-a-vis audio and video (EDIT: meaning JAMMA amplified mono vs unamplified stereo from your soundcard and 15kHz amplified vs 31kHz unamplified video)

Good luck!

NOTE: Since you referred to Ultimarc products, I have used them in my response. There are many other options -- I just wanted to use products that you are somewhat familiar with to provide some clarity.

[gedman]

Thanks for all the info. Amazingly helpful. I did more research. Here's my current plan (please critique it!)

Overview
I'm going to leave all the existing components in the arcade (makes it easy to restore original game later, if desired), but will remove the existing control panel.  I will build/install my own control panel and connect to a brand new JAMMA harness loom.  I'll use a JPac for the interface to the PC.  I'll use an ArcadeVGA card to output 15kHz amplified video.  I'll use PC speakers connected directly to the computer for audio, so I don't have to worry about an audio amp.

Details
Here is how I would "disable" the old game:  Remove the old control panel (easy to do on this Mortal Kombat cabinet using existing molex quick-connects on the JAMMA wiring). Detach the JAMMA connector from the PCM board. Detach the video connector from the Wells Gardner monitor. At this point, the power in the cabinet only powers the monitor and the marquee light.

Here is how I would build-out the "new" setup: Build and install a new control panel (two joysticks, 6 buttons per joystick, 1 & 2 player buttons, and a trackball).  Connect the joysticks and buttons 1-3 (both players) to a brand new JAMMA harness loom. Connect the JAMMA connector to the JPac and buttons 4-6 (both players) to the JPac screw terminals. Connect the JPac to the computer via USB.  Install ArcadeVGA card in the PC and feed 15kHz video output to the JPac. Connect the JPac video feed to the Wells Gardner monitor. Connect trackball to the OptiPac, and connect OptiPac to the computer via USB. Use PC speakers for audio.

I'll store the original control panel inside the cabinet.  If I ever want to revert the cabinet to the original game, it would take literally 5 minutes or less (most of which is the screws that mount the control panel to the cabinet.  I'll probably create custom art for the control panel overlay and matching custom marquee.

Yes, all my components are Ultimarc, because that is the site I found that sells what I need.  If there are other/better options, please let me know.

Thoughts?

[baritonomarchetto]

I'm not sure that there is a big disparity in price as the poster above implies

This is probably because you have no experience in DIY an arcade encoder... you can cut the price in half doing your pc to jamma interface by yourself with arduino; in this case, having to deal with optical peripheral too, you can save 3/4 of the price needed to buy 2 the two encoders.

There's some soldering work needed, obviously.

[Mike A]

Your time is valuable. By the time you are done jacking around with the Arduino, it cost you more unless your time is worth nothing.

[CheffoJeffo]

I'm not sure that there is a big disparity in price as the poster above implies

This is probably because you have no experience in DIY an arcade encoder... you can cut the price in half doing your pc to jamma interface by yourself with arduino; in this case, having to deal with optical peripheral too, you can save 3/4 of the price needed to buy 2 the two encoders.

There's some soldering work needed, obviously.

Yeah, that's it. No experience. ---smurfing--- kids and their ardy-wheenos.  Nobody ever built their own interfaces before they were commercially available and before nifty gadgetry like arduinos.

Yes, I am that old.

As Mike points out, time is valuable. If I say my time is worth American minimum wage (which is low if I have the skill set to build an interface from scratch, not to mention the luxury of having an arcade cab), building a DIY encoder is going to be more expensive almost every time.

OTOH, if you enjoy the tinkering, that also has value. There are DIY aspects of restoration that make no financial sense but I absolutely love so do myself. Definitely doesn't mean that it is true for everybody.

There was a time when commercial encoders actually were expensive, so we had no choice but to DIY. Not true any more, even if you think so.

[Mike A]

He probably should have spent five seconds perusing your posts before disparaging your DIY cred.

[baritonomarchetto]

Sorry, your thinking and experience is so valued that i will gliss slowly...

[gedman]

Small change to my plan above. Opti-pac isn't needed. Trackball and/or spinner have USB interface, and I can use existing buttons on the control panel (primarily for joysticks) for games requiring spinner+buttons (ie Arkanoid) or trackball+buttons (ie Missle Command). I confirmed this with Ultimarc directly.

Can one of you (CheffoJeffo perhaps?) comment on my plan above?  i really need your advice based on your experience before I drop some $$$ on components listed above.  (Yeah, I totally agree that arduino isn't worth my time/effort.)

Reminder: I'm not married to Ultimarc - so feel free to suggest better alternatives.

[CheffoJeffo]

Looks reasonable to me. 

[AndyWarne]

I-pac is n expensive keyboard hardware emulator. Nothing else.

Actually the I-PAC is an emulator which supports keyboard, mouse, volume and game controller buttons and has connectors which a trackball and spinner can plug directly into. Its a lot more than a keyboard emulator and even the keyboard functionality is not the same as an actual keyboard as it does not have the same max limit of simultaneous keypresses nor the poll rate limit of standard keyboards.