Bella's Arcade [FINISHED]

[javeryh]

Coder:  It is good to know someone else was having problems with the little divots (well, it's not that good for either of us I guess).  There are some places that look amazingly smooth and flat and others that have the divots no matter what I do.  I've attached some pics of what I did (the sideart is just laying there).  As you can tell from the pictures, the finish is quite flat - not a brush stroke to be found!  I am going to go over it with 4-5 coats of rubbing compound and then top it off with 4-5 coats of polish/wax just to be safe.  I bought that Ryobi polisher but I'm not sure I'm going to use it - I'm having a hard time controlling it and there's not that much surface area to cover by hand...  This is definitely hard to do and I have a whole new level of respect for people who finish cars (and pianos) for a living - you need some serious talent and experience!

superbigjay: those pics of your kitchen are awesome.  I LOVE stuff like that.  It is good to know I'm not the only crazy person on these boards.   

Kaytrim:  I think I am going to listen to your advice (as much as it pains my inner anal-retentive self) and just do what I have to do to finish and realize that I am going to be the only one who notices the imperfections.

 

[theCoder]

It is a compromise between perfection, time, and location.  In my case, I knew the top surface would be looked at the most.  Anyone waiting for a turn would be inches away.  It had a small patch of divots toward one corner.  I decided after all the lacquer, sanding and polishing to drop back to 200 grit paper, sanding almost to the wood; then built back up with a couple of coats of paint, lacquer etc...  It added a few days to the project, but it turned out mirror-like.  On the bottom of the back panel, there was a larger patch of divots that I did nothing with.  Standing there, looking down at it, you can't see it at all.  You have to be behind it, with the light at just the right angle.  In your case, I'd take special care with the top half of the sides, towards the front.  The back panel is probably fine. 

It is all a trade-off.  I can't imagine doing this on a piano.

[needlesmcgirk]

Man that looks really good.

[spacies]

Nice work JAVERYH.

I spent a lot of my youth and the beginning of my working career in a Hot Rod shop.

And we all know how pedantic Hot Rodders are when it comes to paint!

I have painted all of my drag cars throughout the years and several friends cars too.

I hate to say it but the divots are from the lack of preparation. Sorry.
When using MDF, although it feels smooth, it needs a couple of layers of primer and then 2-3 layers of spray putty and a flat sand with some 400 grit. After you have done that you will see any low spots because it will be a darker where the sandpaper hasn't touched.

You then need to build that area back up with several squirts of putty and sand it back down.

After you have done that, then you apply a couple more coats of primer, flat sand again and then move on to the colour.

If you are using 2k (or 2pot) which has a base coat and a clear coat its really simple. Apply your base coat, then your artwork and cover with the clear coat. No sanding, buffing or cutting is required with this stuff because it has a glass like finish straight from the gun. Go outside and take a look at your car/truck because thats what it is painted with. The only drawback is that the clear coat is deadly poisonous. So unless you have the right breathing gear, don't even open the lid.


You are using a Lacquer which has several names such as Dulon, Acrylic or Cellulose.

This is the old paint system before the industry switched to a 2 pot system.

This is great for DIYers but requires a LOT of work to get a shiney, flat finish. As you have just found out.
When using this stuff, you still need a good breathing mask and some ventillation.
Mix it with up to 50/50 of thinners and make sure you use a high quality thinners for the clear coat. This will save you work at the end when trying to get the shine. Its called AAA (triple A) Thinners here. With a good spray gun and a good mix you can get a pretty good finish from the gun.

Also, dump the 1500 grit and get some 1200. You will get the job done quicker.
Also buy/hire a electric buffing machine. They are worth there weight in gold when using this paint system.
Dip the pad in cutting compound do a quick run over the paint work then dip it in some water and go over it again and then watch the shine appear right before your eyes.

Just keep the buffer on a low/med speed and keep it moving fairly quickly otherwise you will heat up the paint and melt it. You will still have to hand rub the corners though.

I just painted a Defender cabinet and here is a shot straight from the gun.
Its the same paint system you used. No buffing or cutting done yet.



Well, I hope this helps out a bit.
Its probably too late for you but it may help others.

As always, preparation is the key!

 

PS, don't stress about the divots. Only you know they are there.

[Kaytrim]

That is quite a bit of information there spacies.  I am just happy with the finish I get straight from the foam roller using simi-gloss latex interior paint.  Of course I am not trying for a mirror finish either.

Get out the buffer and call 'er done man.  Your next cab is already on the drawing board.

TTFN
Kaytrim

[javeryh]

spacies - that is an amazing amount of information (and I could have used it a month ago!  ).  I did sand the MDF before doing anything to it (600 grit) and then I added 2 coats of an oil-based primer before painting it pink but my problem (I think) was the fact that I could not spray any of the paint - I had to use a roller due to not having a spray gun and a compressor - I think it was just too expensive for me to splurge on for just this one project.  The orange peel that was unavoidable is what caused the majority of the divots, I think. 

I really want to keep sanding to remove all of the divots but I am 100% positive that if I do I will sand through to the white primer or MDF somewhere and completely ruin it.  I think I'm going to cut my losses and just use the rubbing compound and polish and call it finished.  I have a buffer - so you are saying I should apply the compound to the pad, buff it onto the panel and then dip the pad in water and buff it again?  I will give that a try.  I'm not really noticing a difference visually after applying the rubbing compound.  The link that inspired me to go for this finish really made it look like a few passes with some rubbing compound would make a noticable difference (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83141&highlight=).  Oh well.

I still have to do the other side though so maybe I can get that looking a little better too.

[spacies]

Took me friggin ages to type it out too. LOL!

Sorry I thought you had sprayed this cabinet.
So the paint you used, is it a lacquer or oil base?

You won't get the results like the link using oil based paint.

If it is lacquer, how the hell did you roll it on without it drying on the roller?
The best thing about lacquers is that by the time you have sprayed all the way to the bottom of a cabinet, the top is touch dry.

[javeryh]

Here was my process:

1.  Sanded MDF with 600 grit
2.  Applied oil-based primer - rolled on with a 4" foam roller (2 coats).  Sanding after the 2nd coat with 220 grit.
3.  Applied water-based pink paint - rolled on with a 4" foam roller (6 coats).  Sanding after the 2nd, 4th and 5th coats with 220 grit.
4.  Sprayed on 25 coats of lacquer straight from the can - no sanding.
5.  Wetsanded like crazy with 1500 grit
6.  Apply rubbing compound (undecided on coats - maybe 4-5)
7.  Apply polish (undecided on coats - maybe 4-5)

The lacquer was easy to apply - I did it all in one weekend.  I'm disappointed I couldn't get it perfect but the finish still looks 1,000,000 times better than leaving brushstrokes on there with ordinary paint, IMO.  It almost looks like it came from the factory or something.  I really want to finish it up this weekend.

[spacies]

Ok cool,

You are going to have to be very careful when cutting and buffing this thing.

The spray from a can is nowhere near the pressure of applying it with a gun so I won't be that thick.

When spraying with a gun, the spray atomises through the air and it goes on sticky and that lets you apply a heavier coat. The heavier the coat, the better the shine. Using a can will give you a fairly good coat but it will go on streaky and very dull. As you would have found out.

Anyway, the guy in your link that had built the speakers used a lacquer paint throughout the process. The shine he has now is not an option to you. You are going to have to settle with a nice finish, not perfect.

If you are going to build another cabinet, which I suspect you are, how about hiring or borrowing a compressor and spray gun for a day. It isn't that expensive and you will love the finish and the speed at which you can paint.

Sorry mate, but all you can do is do the best you can on this and I wouldn't sand too much more because you are likely to hit the colour again.

Yes, the finish is better than brush strokes and roller stipple anyday.

I wanna see this thing done!

[Hornet]

Spaceis is right the guy used cellulose based materials on his speakers from start to finish. It is a much harder drying product and easier to sand than acrylic, acrylic has too much elasticity for trying to sand flat, it can be done but just not as well as oil-based, cellulose or *AC paints and lacquers.

As a rule you should never layer different based products over the top of one another, the reason being is they all have different structures, drying/curring times and all show different signs of surface tension.

A good example or a worse case scenario would be placing cellulose over an oil-based paint, the result is that it will eat into the oil based paint creating a never drying crinkle effect.

Cellulose contains volatile solvents and another example of this is the AAA thinner that Spacies described, if you was to put some of the AAA thinner on a cloth and wipe over the surface of a car body it would remove some, if not all of the paint.

White spirit and Turpentine is used for thinning oil-based paints and is less damaging than cellulose solvents, but be warned both white spirit and turpentine will dissolve a polystyrene cup in no time!

Water is used to thin Acrylic paints and is not damaging, water can be drunk by humans, enough said!!

*AC lacquer is a product that has not been mentioned in this thread as of yet and is what the furniture trade use on wooden products.
AC lacquer is a 2 component product, it consists of the lacquer part and a chemical accelerator part to start the curring, these are proportionally mixed together before spraying. There is also a premixed version on the market. This type of lacquer is a high build lacquer which is very durable and can produce a rich gloss lustre with a lot of depth.

It is important to understand these materials before working with them, but a good start is to remember not to layer different based products.

This link takes you through the process of creating a good finish to mdf

[Xam]

Looks great Jav! I bet she has a ball playing on that...not to mention she will be the envy of the neighborhood...nothing beats "Daddy made this for me"

Awesome job!

Xam

[javeryh]

Wow - awesome info guys.  Thanks!  I'm going to read up on this stuff and file it away for another project.  I did all I could with this one... 

Today I finally finished the, um... finishing.  Woo hoo!!!!  I was so psyched I proceeded to install the front panel, coin door and t-molding... and then I had to have dinner and watch the Sopranos.  I'm hoping to have a complete playable cabinet by the end of next weekend.

Anyway, here's another picture showing off the finish - it really looks stunning in person (flaws and all).  In this shot I am 1/2 way finished with applying the rubbing compound - you can see the reflection of the rag I used in the bottom half.  The top part is "only" sanded.  The difference is pretty unbelievable. 

I'll be posting more pictures later in the week and I'll try to do a write up on the last few steps but I think the finishing process has been talked about to death.  I should note, however, that I only appleid 2 coats of each of the rubbing compound and polish (as opposed to the 4-5 coats I originally planned).  That stuff is harsh and cuts through the finish quite easily.  There were a few sections where I sanded down too far to the pink paint and the rubbing compound was really eating into that and I didn't want to hit the white primer so I stopped.

[javeryh]

Nothing much to note here regarding the construction or anything.  I was able to install the front panel which contains the coin door (and is hinged on the right for access to the computer) as well as the pink t-molding.  At first I was put off by the pinkness of the t-molding but after I popped in the control panel and hung the marquee and sideart with some tape it looked really really good - the buttons and some of the coloring in the marquee and sideart match the t-molding just like I had planned.

One note about the t-molding installation... it definitely wasn't as easy as it should have been and that was my own fault.  Throughout the finishing process the cabinet was very wet due to wetsanding the lacquer finish.  A lot of this water spilled over the edges and I had to continually wipe the spills up with a rag.  A lot of the water also came into contact with the unprotected edge of the cabinet where the t-molding slot was located and severely weakened the MDF.  When I went to put on the t-molding, it didn't necessarily want to follow the slot I had routed when I was hammering it in with my rubber mallet and there were a few spots where it made it's own groove - off center. 

It was an easy fix - all I had to do was remove the t-molding, straighten the slot out with a flathead screwdriver, carefully align the t-molding with the slot and hammer it in again.  My previous experience was that t-molding was super easy to install and didn't require careful attention.  I won't make that mistake again! 

I definitely do not think this will be a long-term problem or anything either - the t-molding really fit snugly into the slot (without glue) and went deeper than the water damage on the surface of the edge so it had something to cling to in there.  I just wanted to point it out in case someone decided to try my finish.

Anyway, I've attached two more pics.  Note the reflections in the sides - pretty sweet!!

[Dudeman]

Awesome. Really nice job.

[javeryh]

Thanks!   

Here are a few more pics.  I know, I know - this is getting ridiculous...  I had planned to install the marquee last night but I didn't have the proper screws to attach the marquee retainer or the velcro to hold the flourescent light in place.  Looks like I have to go to Home Depot today!

[javeryh]

Yikes - Even MORE pics!   

[jfunk]

If my daughter saw this, I'd be in for a big woodworking project 

Thanx for the inspiration..  now if only I had the talent.. 

[patrickl]

Yeah that looks pretty slick. Too bad the pictures don't do the paint justice (gues it was a bit too dark for good pictures?). Looks very shiny indeed.

[theCoder]

Man, that t-molding sure looks... well... Pink.  It sure brings out the pink in that pink cab.  Just kidding.

You are on the home stretch now.  Great job.

[bfauska]

Looking good.

With 8 pages I am too lazy to look back to find the answer, so I'll just ask.  Did you ever get anywhere on the coin lights looking pink?

[superbigjay]

Hello Javeryh.

I got I suggestion.  Let me know what you think.

You can go with a slightly darker pink with those t-mold.
So you can go through the painting process again.

That should add another 5pages to this thread 

Just kidding.
The cab and finish looks fantastic 

Love the documentation and the project 

Jay

[BradC]

With 8 pages I am too lazy to look back to find the answer, so I'll just ask.  Did you ever get anywhere on the coin lights looking pink?

If you haven't figured out a way to do this yet, I would use white lights (LED, bulbs, whatever) and then put a piece of pink plastic sheet in front of the lights. I don't know the technical term for what I'm thinking of, but in the movie/TV/theater lighting lingo they're called "gels". It's basically a transparent sheet of plastic about as thick as a good, solid card-stock, and they are available in a ton of different colors. I'd look into that, you should be able to get a very effective pink light that way.

[Anubis_au]

Javeryh

The cab is looking fan-friggin-tastic!!!

Keep the pics coming, we all wantto see this thing when its fully finished.

Incidentally, what (if anything) have you decided to do re icons for the various buttons?

[polaris]

With 8 pages I am too lazy to look back to find the answer, so I'll just ask.  Did you ever get anywhere on the coin lights looking pink?

If you haven't figured out a way to do this yet, I would use white lights (LED, bulbs, whatever) and then put a piece of pink plastic sheet in front of the lights. I don't know the technical term for what I'm thinking of, but in the movie/TV/theater lighting lingo they're called "gels". It's basically a transparent sheet of plastic about as thick as a good, solid card-stock, and they are available in a ton of different colors. I'd look into that, you should be able to get a very effective pink light that way.

the technical term is 'gels' or filters but it wont work , weve been through that discussion somewhere here.
BF  if i didnt dream it i think hes casting his own, im sure youve read the thread by now(if i didnt dream it that is)

javery, looking great cant wait to see it complete

[javeryh]

If my daughter saw this, I'd be in for a big woodworking project 

Thanx for the inspiration..  now if only I had the talent.. 

Thanks!  I don't think there's any talent involved here though - just a lot of planning and being as careful as possible - you could do it if you tried!   

Yeah that looks pretty slick. Too bad the pictures don't do the paint justice (gues it was a bit too dark for good pictures?). Looks very shiny indeed.

Yeah, I'm quite disappointed that I can't seem to take a decent picture with my camera.  The cabinet is in my unlit garage so even during the day it's kind of dark in there.  Maybe that's part of the problem.  Also, when I use the flash it really distorts the colors and everything.  I'm hoping that when I finally get it in Bella's room I will be able to take a decent picture...  It definitely is shiny!   

Man, that t-molding sure looks... well... Pink.  It sure brings out the pink in that pink cab.  Just kidding.

You are on the home stretch now.  Great job.

Thanks Coder.  You are right - the pink t-molding sure is pink!   

Looking good.

With 8 pages I am too lazy to look back to find the answer, so I'll just ask.  Did you ever get anywhere on the coin lights looking pink?

Not yet.  I am going to try and make my own but after doing the research, it looks like it is going to be very tough to do.  I still don't have a solution although Donkey_Kong gave me a few good ideas that I am going to look into...

Hello Javeryh.

I got I suggestion.  Let me know what you think.

You can go with a slightly darker pink with those t-mold.
So you can go through the painting process again.

That should add another 5pages to this thread 

Just kidding.
The cab and finish looks fantastic 

Love the documentation and the project 

Jay

Thanks Jay!  Believe it or not I'm contemplating getting the sideart reprinted about 3" larger and with a different colored border.  I'm crazy I know but after seeing it in person I'm not 100% sold on my original choice.  We shall see...

[javeryh]

Ugh.  Now I really really need to figure out how to take a decent picture.  Last night I trimmed the marquee and plexiglass to the proper dimensions and kind of installed everything (I clamped it in place).  I fired up the flourescent light and WOW - I was stunned.  It looked FABULOUS.  The distribution of the light was perfectly even and the printing on the marquee was flawless (thank you Scott!). 

These two pics don't do it justice at all.  I'm going to post more pics (well duh, you've been following this thread, right?  ) when I actually install the marquee retainer and everything - it's not as simple as I thought it was going to be.  Bothe pictures are taken with the marquee light on and both look terrible. 

 

[Kaytrim]

Taking pics of lighted marquees almost always fail.  Take a closeup without the flash and that is about the best you can expect.  Come on man home stretch get 'er done.

[Anubis_au]

Jav, the pics make that cab look awesome.

If the pics aren't doing it justice, then it must be even more awesome than we believe.

Now, as the rest are saying, hurry up and finish the damn thing!! Home stretch...

(ps don't hurry up, take your time and make it GOLD)

 

[javeryh]

It's hard not to rush when you're this close... I am probably 95% done with the build except for the computer configuration which is going to be difficult.  Anyway, over the course of this week I'll be detailing my progress for the various tasks that I did over the weekend.  First up....

Speaker Grills
A while back I purchased some speaker covers from Chokes Unlimited I finally installed them over the weekend. Nothing fancy here:

1.  Using a stop block up against the back panel, I positioned the speaker covers and taped them in place
2.  Using a 1/8" drill bit I drilled 4 pilot holes for each cover
3.  Then I screwed the speaker covers in place
4.  Finally, I used some black screw caps to hide the screw heads and give it a clean, finished look

The pics are attached and I think they are pretty self-explanatory.

[DaOld Man]

Good job!

[amadama]

I really love this machine. Your daughter is going to be the luckiest little girl in town (both for getting such a great gift and for having such a great parent!!)

[javeryh]

Good job!

Thanks!!   

I really love this machine. Your daughter is going to be the luckiest little girl in town (both for getting such a great gift and for having such a great parent!!)

Thanks a lot!  It has been a blast to build (probably more fun for me than actually playing it if you can believe that) but I am definitely the lucky one to have a daughter like Bella.   

[javeryh]

I guess I'm going to keep a running list of what I need to do in order to finish - I have to keep pushing forward because I have to have this thing completely finished by the end of June. There are still a bunch of minor things I have to do:

1.  Cut hole in back of the cabinet and install the exterior plug
2.  Splice new plug to SmartStrip
3.  Wire the computer power button to a button on the cabinet somewhere [back?]
4.  Apply the side art
5.  Make a bezel out of black posterboard/matteboard and install
6.  Wire the coin door
7.  Install feet for the cabinet so it doesn't mar the floor
8.  Install and configure the computer
9.  Miscellaneous touch-up work

I am fairly certain that most of this can be completed in an afternoon - hopefully this weekend. The only part I anticipate having trouble with is the configuration of the computer.   Anyway, I'm still going to write up the installation of the marquee and control panel along with the other finishing stuff but I couldn't resist posting a sneak peek at what the finished cabinet will look like (minus the bezel, obviously).  Enjoy!

[shardian]

So...Ummm... when are the stunningly detailed pdf file instructions going to be available?  I got about three years before I need this machine, so you have a while. 

[Anubis_au]

So...Ummm... when are the stunningly detailed pdf file instructions going to be available?  I got about three years before I need this machine, so you have a while. 

Jav, I might seriously reconsider the Aussie lowboy for one of these, so you may not have *that* much time to deliver the plans

  to the cab! It's a work of art.

[javeryh]

This past weekend I was also able to install the marquee. Is wasn't too difficult but I definitely hit a few snags along the way that I had to think through.

Here is what I started with:

 

The first thing I did was cut the marquee retainers that I ordered to the proper size. The plastic that the retainer is made out of is pretty thick but it is also brittle and cracked under the pressure from my radial saw so I ended up using a mitre box and hand saw. I cut them a bit oversized (1/32") and then sanded down the ends with some 100 grit sandpaper until I got a tight fit.



I toyed with the idea of using velcro to hold the retainer in place but the thickness of the velcro made the retainer sit about 1/16" off of the surface of the cabinet which wasn't going to work. The retainer also needs to be removable so I couldn't just glue it down. I decided to use 4 evenly spaced screws to secure it to the cabinet so the next thing I did was mark off where I wanted the screws to go. I decided on placing the two end screws 1" in from the end of the retainer and then I measured for the other 2 central screws so they would be spaced evenly. To place the holes, I measured up 1/4" from the plastic line that is part of the retainer (you can see it in the pictures).

Using an awl and my trusty rubber mallet, I marked off the holes where I would eventually drill. The reason to mark the holes with an awl is so the drill bit does not slip out of place.

 

After the holes were marked, I drilled them out using a 1/8" drill bit as shown below. Make sure the retainer is clamped in place as you drill so it doesn't slip.  You should get a nice clean hole for the screw as shown:

 

At this point I ran into my first problem. The screw caps I'm using to cover the screws lay very flat and a typical screw kind of slopes outward towards the screw head. The bottom line is that there was no way that the screw would lay flush with the retainer if I didn't modify the hole somehow. I decided to use a larger drill bit and a razor blade to dig out a cone shape for the screw head to sit in.


 
It was kind of a pain but it worked. I didn't have to be precise because the screw caps cover any imperfections around the hole.

The next step was to cut the marquee and the plexiglass to the proper size. This was pretty easy to do and just required a lot of trial and error. Mamemarquees printed the marquee a little oversized but all it took was a razor and straightedge to cut it to size.



I also had to cut the plexiglass which I did using my router, a straightedge and a flush trimming bit. I trimmed off about 1/32" at a time, tried to fit everything in place and then trimmed again until everything was nice and tight. I wish I remembered to take a picture of my arm after routing the plexiglass. The bit actually melted the plexiglass and all the little shavings stuck to my arm - it looked like icing from a Hostess Sno-Ball or something.

Now that the retainer, plexiglass and marquee were all cut to size, I clamped everything in place, drilled out the pilot holes and secured everything to the cabinet using 1/2" screws. Once that was finished I capped each screw head with a screp cap to give it a clean, finished look.

Here are the results:

 


 
I assure you it was easier to install the marquee than type up this post.

The control panel installation is up next!

[patrickl]

Looking better and better.

I'm surprised you got your light so close to the marquee. Doesn't that cause uneven lighting?

[javeryh]

Looking better and better.

I'm surprised you got your light so close to the marquee. Doesn't that cause uneven lighting?

Thanks.  Actually, the lighting is perfectly even.  It really is beautiful and the first time I fired it up I just stood there in awe of it.  Scott obviously uses high quality materials (I ordered the extra fancy marquee material for $10 more - well worth it, IMO).  I can't vouch for the light distribution if you print at Kinko's or something.  YMMV on that.   

[superbigjay]

I assure you it was easier to install the marquee than type up this post.

Good job for the marquee installation Jav!
Clean as usual.

Now that you've set the bar that high, you know you're not allowed to do any average job on the cab 

I've put my project on hold for the last 2-3 weeks to finishe my other project (vivarium part), but reading your progress, makes me want to finish that one to get back to the uroMAMEstyx

Jay 

[javeryh]

Well, I'm officially stuck.  I have an old Gateway that I'm trying to setup but I just don't seem to have enough computer knowledge.  It's a PIII, 766MHz, 256 megs of RAM and is currently running Windows 98.  I am trying to do the following and can't get past #1:

1.  Wipe computer and install XP
2.  Compile MAME so I can save high scores and look at the controls/history stuff
3.  Install MaLa with U360 .map files
4.  Configure computer to boot straight to MaLa
5.  Get games to display full screen
6.  Install (vertical) games

I have XP on a disc and the key that goes with it but after it preps the computer (step 1) and tries to reboot it just hangs on a blank screen.  I think it is supposed to read the disc when it reboots but nothing happens.  I'm frustrated because I wanted to finish this thing today but since I don't know what I'm doing this could take forever.   

Any help would be great. Thanks!