Author Topic: Johnny 5 and LedWiz (Read 29692 times)

horseboy · « **on:** June 21, 2006, 02:58:46 pm »

So, I had planned on using PowerMame to light up the buttons being used on my CP. Now, though, it appears that PowerMame will cease to continue to update with new Mame releases. Powermame has all sorts of cool features, but I was only really interested in the LedWiz features. I am also planning on using a PSone monitor to display Johnny 5. I am no programmer or anything, but it seems to me that Johnny 5 and the LedWiz function in Powermame are kind of similar. They both find out which buttons are in use and display accordingly (in a very different way of course). I thought that it would be really sweet to have the LedWiz controlled by Johnny 5. We could have the propper buttons lit without PowerMame. Also since Johnny 5 can be used to show generic controls for other emulators, we could the appropriate button lit for those as well. Is there any plans or any shot in hell at this getting added to Johnny 5. I am sure you could get assistance from Randy @ GGG and Mike of Powermame.

Just a thought.

Buddabing · « **Reply #1 on:** June 21, 2006, 03:05:43 pm »

How about greasing the wheels? Send Howard a LedWiz on loan or enough money to buy one, and either send him some cash for his effort or fill out some referrals for him.

mccoy178 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 21, 2006, 04:03:57 pm »

I have offered and still do to contribute an ledwiz for dual monitor features. This is a great idea horseboy and I would be completely behind it. You can chalk me down for at least $20 towards the cause.

horseboy · « **Reply #3 on:** June 21, 2006, 04:46:18 pm »

Yeah, I really think that this could be the answer to many LedWizzers problems. I will definitely grease the wheels and throw in some cheese to get this going. Heck, if it would help I would even be willing to throw in some money.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #4 on:** June 21, 2006, 05:44:27 pm »

I don't have any problem adding the feature, ledwiz interfacing seems simple enough.

But as the others assumed I do lack the hardware to work on it. None of the buttons on my panel are translucent, so I've never had a need for one. So yeah send me one on loan or something and I'll see what I can do.

No payment is required though, I'll be glad to do it... you guys don't want me to start asking for commission, you can't afford me.

Ledwiz is seriously lacking on the software end imho. What I'd like to do is get randy to show me how the device is controlled on the low level, then maybe some sort of module could be created for anyone's projects.

horseboy · « **Reply #5 on:** June 21, 2006, 05:52:23 pm »

Sweet.

I am sure that Mike could help out a bunch as well.

mccoy178 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 21, 2006, 05:57:03 pm »

Now to get an LEDWiz.

horseboy · « **Reply #7 on:** June 22, 2006, 11:56:00 am »

I think that if this project gets done it would be very good for sales of the LedWiz. I would think that the easier it is to get it working correctly, the more people there would be that would buy it. With that said I think it would be a great idea for Randy at GGG to send 1 out for developmental purposes. I don't know if Randy will be very receptive to that idea, though.

So if that falls through, we need to round up a little dough (~$50) to get a LedWiz for Howard to work with. It appears that McCoy and I are in for this, but if we could get a few other people to throw down that would help out a bunch. I know that you guys want this feature. Fellow LedWizzers UNITE!!!

mahuti · « **Reply #8 on:** June 22, 2006, 01:15:28 pm »

Use fundable.org to gather prepayment... their fees are now down to 7% of the total collected.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #9 on:** June 22, 2006, 05:17:33 pm »

It's decided then. I'll setup an account sometime this weekend, or we could go the paypal route, your choice.

Depending upon how receptive everyone is I might break out my c++ skills (god help us all) and write a dll similar to randy's but with some added modes of functionality.

I could, for instance, easily bind a light to a physical keyboard key, so it does something when the key is pressed. Or better yet, bind a light to an analog control or bind a light to direct-x force feedback... you get where I'm going with this.

Somebody still needs to make a set of output ports for mame though.... the whiz could easily be used to control rumble motors and such, there just isn't any emulator support.

DaveMMR · « **Reply #10 on:** June 22, 2006, 06:04:58 pm »

First of all Horseboy, you beat me to the post. I was going to ask the same question sometime soon, but held back until I finished researching. I have the same exact concerns as you, except that I want to be able to address a second Ledwiz. If it weren't for that one simple concern, Randy's prog. with Manuti's helper app would actually suit me fine.

Put me down as "highly interested" in this program. I will donate some money towards this project once Howard irons out the account and the proposed features.

Quote

I could, for instance, easily bind a light to a physical keyboard key, so it does something when the key is pressed. Or better yet, bind a light to an analog control or bind a light to direct-x force feedback... you get where I'm going with this.

Those are all great ideas and if they can be easily done, awesome! However, speaking for myself only of course, would be completely happy with a simpler way of controlling the lighting output and would be estatic if it also controls LW's that aren't device #1.

mccoy178 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 22, 2006, 06:49:58 pm »

I would say set up the fundable.org account. That way people can keep track of the total and in general will feel safe to donate. Get the dang thing fired up tonight, and I'll make the first donation. Randy really should hook you up with a sample for testing. I feel okay in this opinion because he does charge for the product and this would help everyone, especially him, tremendously.

horseboy · « **Reply #12 on:** June 22, 2006, 06:56:39 pm »

Quote from: mccoy178 on June 22, 2006, 06:49:58 pm

Randy really should hook you up with a sample for testing. I feel okay in this opinion because he does charge for the product and this would help everyone, especially him, tremendously.

Exactly, but I don't think that he will do it. I pointed him in the direction of a similar thread recently that had to do with AtomicFE. He never responded, so I assumed he was not interested.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #13 on:** June 23, 2006, 09:19:49 am »

Quote from: mccoy178 on June 22, 2006, 06:49:58 pm

Randy really should hook you up with a sample for testing. I feel okay in this opinion because he does charge for the product and this would help everyone, especially him, tremendously.

Actually I would probably turn down one from him even if he offered. For the same reason I wouldn't accept anything from Kelsey (of OscarControls) or any other vendor for that matter. One of my unofficial functions here is to be the voice of honesty when others are just being overly supportive (in other words I have no problems saying a product needs work, may not be useful, or just plain sucks). If I were to accept something from a vendor I may feel obligated to "lay off" when the next product comes out. I would rather not be put in that position.

It's a personal thing, may sound silly to some but I'd rather have it this way.

(p.s. Kelsey has been kind enough to lend me spare space and b/w since the beginning and still does to this day, if you enjoy any of my products you should thank him some time because he makes them available for download.)

DaveMMR · « **Reply #14 on:** June 23, 2006, 01:04:05 pm »

I'm ashamed of myself for not offering before (blame lack of sleep), but Howard, I can send you both of my LedWiz devices (#1 and #2) on loan. They aren't hooked-up yet and since we're experiencing some rain this weekend, I'll be behind on the project anyway. I can also loan you some RGB LEDs if needed.

I can ship them to you and also provide return postage as long as you wouldn't need them for more than a couple of weeks or so. If there's anything else you would need, let me know.

All I really want out of this program is the ability to light up LED's from a second device outside of PowerMame (e.g.: for other emus, if PowerMame ceases, or even just for S's & G's).

Let me know Howard.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #15 on:** June 23, 2006, 05:10:44 pm »

I appreciate it man. Thinking on it more though I'm not sure if a loan is the best option, at least not if you guys want me to keep updating the code.

j5 is so convoluted (due to the mame cfg/ctrlr file parsing) that sometimes I find a minor bug months after I originally added the code. If that were to happen with the led-wiz stuff I'd be screwed.

I really want to leave the decision up to you guys though, I feel a little uncomfortable taking donations so I want to make sure everyone is happy.

horseboy · « **Reply #16 on:** June 23, 2006, 05:21:52 pm »

Well, if he wants to send them, that is fine with me. I think that you would need 2 anyway to add support for 2 of them. I don't need support for 2 and I don't know if you even want to do that. Just a thought. But yeah, I definitely think you will need your own, so you can keep it updated and such. I say set up a fundable.org account and lets get you one. If Dave wants to send them so you can get started, thats cool, but lets make sure and get you a permanent one. Thanks again.

DaveMMR · « **Reply #17 on:** June 23, 2006, 05:35:23 pm »

Quote

I appreciate it man. Thinking on it more though I'm not sure if a loan is the best option, at least not if you guys want me to keep updating the code.

That's cool Howard, the offer's on the table. Feel free to PM me if you change your mind and want me to send them, even if just to get the ball rolling until your own comes.

Quote

I think that you would need 2 anyway to add support for 2 of them. I don't need support for 2 and I don't know if you even want to do that. Just a thought.

Actually, I should take some sort of poll seeing if I'm the only one with this concern.

The problem with the RGB LEDS is that they take up three inputs each, so basically if you want an average sized panel to have full RGB capabilities, you'll need at least 36 inputs (that's not even counting the start buttons and trackball LEDs). Add to that all the little Bells N Whistles people are thinking about (the Q*Bert knocker that's already in PowerMame, the Gorf Lights, Force Feedback, etc.), and you can run out of inputs fast.

I do admit, however, that my lighting plans might be overkill -- but incredibly useful. Think "Mouse Trap".

Randy's software actually isn't all that difficult to use (esp. with Manhuti's helper app.), it could just use a few more features.

Ultimately, I'm not overly pushing that feature - it's just one of those "while you're in there, could you.....". Just having some LEDwiz support in a front end would be great.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #18 on:** June 26, 2006, 08:51:15 am »

Ok I looked over at Randy's site and here is the gist of what I need:

Led Wiz =44.95
RGB Leds =1.50 a pop

I'm not sure how many leds would be appropriate. I can probably do enough to test with around 6 or 7 (enough for a full 1p layout) but that is up to you guys.

Anything else I order would not be required for the development and thus I'll pay for it myself. (If I'm going to go to all the trouble of adding support, I might as well use the dang thing.

)

I'm thinking around 65 bucks should be a reasonable price goal.

The only reason I'm asking is fundable.org requires you to set a price goal up front.

About the second controller thing. I think it is a fair thing to ask but not initially. What we'll do is I'll get one working and if you guys are satisfied with the results I'll start another fund and order a second if enough are interested.

With mahuti's app starting to take shape, you guys might not even want me to do this anymore.

Just let me know.

horseboy · « **Reply #19 on:** June 26, 2006, 10:21:18 am »

Well, a bunch of people use Johnny 5, and IMO the less software you have to deal with the better. $65 sounds like a good price to me. One thing to keep in mind, though. There are probably just as many people that will be using single color leds as there are using RGB. I know that McCoy and I are using single color leds. Just a little food for thought.

mahuti · « **Reply #20 on:** June 26, 2006, 11:48:22 am »

That's the trick... some of the folks'll use 3 lines for 1 led, some 2, and some 1.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #21 on:** June 26, 2006, 01:47:48 pm »

Quote from: mahuti on June 26, 2006, 11:48:22 am

That's the trick... some of the folks'll use 3 lines for 1 led, some 2, and some 1.

That's the idea..... with rgb leds I can test for all three. What I'll do is have a user define virtual buttons (single, dual, tri), and bind them to a physical button, just like the labels work in j5. And of couse a seperate ini file to tell j5 which color/intensity/animation/whatever to use for each button will also be available.

DaveMMR · « **Reply #22 on:** June 27, 2006, 01:58:13 pm »

Quote from: Howard_Casto on June 26, 2006, 08:51:15 am

About the second controller thing. I think it is a fair thing to ask but not initially. What we'll do is I'll get one working and if you guys are satisfied with the results I'll start another fund and order a second if enough are interested.

Fair enough.

mccoy178 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 06, 2006, 08:20:46 pm »

So, where are we with this?

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #24 on:** July 06, 2006, 10:01:25 pm »

Heh I forgot.

I'll look into funable.org tonight.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #25 on:** July 07, 2006, 11:19:16 pm »

Ok here we go:
https://www.fundable.org/groupactions/Johnny5ledwiz

The price goal is slightly higher than I calculated, but fundable complains if you don't setup the funds in multiples of 10. I configured it so you can donate as much as you like, but unfortunately 10 bucks is the minimum donation (not my fault, wanted it to be as low as $1).

Anyway, we have almost a month from the first bid, so if you guys are still interested feel free. Fundable sets it up so that you aren't billed unless the goal is reached so don't worry about that issue.

mccoy178 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 08, 2006, 12:02:33 am »

I put in $20. Thanks Howard.

Extreme8 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 13, 2006, 10:55:35 am »

I just found this thread (usually just skip over the stickies) and think this is a great project.
I'm not an LEDWiz user but having an interface for it can only help the community. Just pledged $10 for cause.

Maybe Saint could make a mention of this on the main page to stir up some interest?

horseboy · « **Reply #28 on:** July 13, 2006, 12:21:38 pm »

Stickied... sweet. I just put in $20 as well. It appears we only need $20 more to go in. I am ready.

mahuti · « **Reply #29 on:** July 13, 2006, 12:42:26 pm »

I put my money where my mouth is. Funded.

mccoy178 · « **Reply #30 on:** July 13, 2006, 01:43:45 pm »

I was getting a little worried that no one would see it.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #31 on:** July 13, 2006, 03:57:07 pm »

Pending authorization from youze guyz this fund rasier is done!

I'd say record time considering I didn't pimp out the link at all.

I'll wait a few days after payment to compile my own list of GGG stuff I want (might as well get it now and save on shipping) and then we are off and running.

Are any of the contributors willing to beta test for me? (Warning! My beta testers often run off crying or angry due to my winning personality and people skills, so take heed before you volunteer.)

mccoy178 · « **Reply #32 on:** July 13, 2006, 04:55:15 pm »

I'd be happy to help. People love giving me beta stuff because I'm so smart with the software side of things. If you can get past the fact I'm a dumb

, I'll get past the fact your a

head.

mahuti · « **Reply #33 on:** July 13, 2006, 05:12:04 pm »

Sure send it on. Most of my clients also have winning personalities and people skills, so I'm used to it.

cdbrown · « **Reply #34 on:** July 14, 2006, 06:45:57 am »

Quote from: Howard_Casto on July 13, 2006, 03:57:07 pm

(Warning! My beta testers often run off crying or angry due to my winning personality and people skills, so take heed before you volunteer.)

This isn't just restricted to your beta testers

Well done on gettting this up and running and I commend you on your stance of not accepting free stuff from vendors

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #35 on:** July 16, 2006, 04:56:55 pm »

Fundable sent it on over this evening. Give me a few days then I'll go ahead and put in an order. I'll keep posting boring tidbits like this until I'm done.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #36 on:** July 18, 2006, 01:10:45 am »

No I still haven't ordered it yet. I will very soon.

Anyway, I don't like to post a lot of stff about j5 here when it has it's own forum, so you can check progress from this thread.

http://fe.donkeyfly.com/forum/index.php?topic=119.225

If you want to make suggestions or comments for the ledwiz part of j5 specifically, please make a new thread in that forum.

thanks guys!

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #37 on:** July 21, 2006, 02:52:25 am »

Ok I placed an order tonight so I'll get the stuff sometime next week and we can get started.

Off-topic anyone know where I can get some fx-buttons at a fair price? I'm not fond of white so randy's buttons aren't an option for my panel (I did order a couple ice though so I could get the colors calibrated for you guys).

Izrun · « **Reply #38 on:** July 21, 2006, 04:28:42 pm »

Are you going to use any sort of open standard for this. For fun I was planning on making a (non-commercial) control with control built in, and I would love to be able to make it be able to use some standard that you or someone else sets. To make a long story short, can you document the output you will be creating so we could make it work with our own designs?

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #39 on:** July 21, 2006, 06:20:07 pm »

Yeah, that stuff will be covered over at fe.donkeyfly.com

When I first get it, I'll just be playing catchup to all the other utilites out there, I just intend to get it working.

Then I'll go into more advanced things, like possibly a new dat project (buttons.ini) where the original button colors of a game are documented.

Now adding support for another device is something all-together different. No matter how closely you mimic how the led-wiz works, your device is still gonna show up with a different ID in windows, so custom support would have to be added for any program that needs to support the device. I have no problem adding support for other stuff... I intend to add parallel port support, for instance. I just need the hardware.

lettuce · « **Reply #40 on:** July 22, 2006, 06:44:13 am »

Why will there be no new updates to Powermame then?

mahuti · « **Reply #41 on:** July 22, 2006, 12:04:51 pm »

Well, you'd have to ask MikeQ about that. I think it's because he could never get any additional help developing PowerMAME. There's plenty of interest, but not enough programmers.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #42 on:** July 22, 2006, 03:31:42 pm »

Yeah, unfortunately I saw that one coming as soon as pmame was released. Programming for mame is hard, and time consuming. It's hard to keep a custom build updated.

Regardless, handling custom light layouts inside mame was never a good idea anyway.... it can easily be done externally. Mame broadcasts the rom name when it launches a game for pete's sake.. all you have to do is monitor mame via an external app.

Now controlling hardware via a mame driver (qbert knocker ,ect ) was a good idea but with the exception of qbert, nothing was ever done with it.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #43 on:** July 24, 2006, 09:48:53 pm »

Got my ledwiz today. I haven't started coding yet as I'm still learning the commands. The suggested software is a tad odd.

I wrote a tiny little app to mix colors with. It'll have to be calibrated (as monitor pixels don't have the same intensity as the leds) but it is already a decent tool to get rgb color values from. Nothing fancy, just a color swatch box and three sliders to adjust the rgb value. I haven't seen anything like that for the hardware yet, so I thought I'd mention it. I'll release it once It's a little more user friendly. I can also add a "pick a color" box if you guys want that just takes the colors you can pick from your typical windows app and converts their 255 color scale to 48.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #44 on:** July 26, 2006, 05:39:39 pm »

I finished up that proof of concept app with the color picker.

You can get it here.

It doesn't do anything particularly useful, but it was mainly a test to see how well I could get the hardware to respond. What it does is turn off the first bank of lights, and then sets light 1 and 2 to the colors you choose. Of course it assumes that both light 1 and 2 are rgb lights and that they are installed in the proper order (pin1=r, pin2=g, pin3=b ect...)

The rapid transmisson test is what I need some feedback on though... when you click it your first two buttons should quickly blink to random colors. Please let me know if this is not the result, thanks.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #45 on:** August 04, 2006, 12:37:08 am »

Nobody told me that the file I uploaded didn't include the ocx (oops).

[ Here ] is a new version that does some nifty test stuff. If you want to see something especially cool, load the program, click on the mame ambilight button once, leave it running and load up mame. The lights will match the color of the screen!

mr.Curmudgeon · « **Reply #46 on:** August 09, 2006, 01:27:16 am »

Granted, I might be "special", but I just downloaded the app and I get a Run-time error '76' : Path not found when I try to do anything. None of the LED's light up at all.

Just fyi.

mrC

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #47 on:** August 09, 2006, 03:29:06 am »

Of course make sure you have vb6 runtime files installed. (if you are running xp you do)

Not sure what that would mean considering the program doesn't open or close anything.

*Sigh* This is why I down right refuse to use ocx's for anything anymore, with a dll you can just drop it into the folder and the app has sense enough to look for it. With ocx's, not so much.

Try this:

copy the ledwizm.ocx to your system32 folder

now open a command prompt, navigate to that folder and type:

regsvr32.exe ledwizm.ocx

If that doesn't fix it (or even if it does) let me know.

RandyT · « **Reply #48 on:** August 09, 2006, 09:28:09 am »

Your program doesn't look like it is even using the OCX, because it executes fine on a system without the OCX installed. It gets an error only when the a slider is released. You have a different problem here.

The error you get with an unregistered or missing OCX looks very different. The program would error immediately at run-rime in this event with the following;

horseboy · « **Reply #49 on:** August 09, 2006, 12:26:15 pm »

Howard, I posted this over in the J5 wip thread, but I don't know how often you check it so I'll repost it here for ya.

I had a quickie question for ya. You mentioned that you were looking into making a colors.ini and all of that to display the original color of the buttons for each game. That sound like a great idea and everything (a crapload of work, but a good idea nonetheless), but is that going to make it difficult for the single color users? For instance, I know that McCoy has all red translucents on his cp, so the rgb stuff is not needed. I plan on single colors as well. So i guess to shorten up a long question... will we be able to easily light up single color leds with the correct controls?

Also on a side note... how is the dualie thing going? I am very interested in that. Even though I am going to have the proper buttons lit on my cp, I was planning on having a PS1 screen w/J5 showing the labels and everything. I think dualie is more important to me than the led wiz deal (although, my dream cab has both up and running).

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #50 on:** August 09, 2006, 04:20:14 pm »

Yeah thanks guys I'll look into it. This is just a test proggie anyway but I'm curious to find the error.

Randy in theory ocx's are components, not registered components meaning that you shouldn't even have to include them. Unfortunately, for whatever reason some you do, some you just have to drop into a folder, and some you have to register. It think it's because there are some crazy things you can do like put a dll inside a ocx ect... That's why they aren't as popular as they were. Yours does something pretty simple though so it should be internalized and work fine.

I don't want you to misunderstand. I wasn't complaining about the ocx itself, just the ocx format in general.

(Howard looks at his code.)

Ok found it...... just a stray chdir in there from when I was testing. I can take that out. Take 3 I guess.

hb... i'll reply over at donkeyfly (I check it at least once a day).

RandyT · « **Reply #51 on:** August 09, 2006, 04:50:37 pm »

Quote from: Howard_Casto on August 09, 2006, 04:20:14 pm

Randy in theory ocx's are components, not registered components meaning that you shouldn't even have to include them. Unfortunately, for whatever reason some you do, some you just have to drop into a folder, and some you have to register. It think it's because there are some crazy things you can do like put a dll inside a ocx ect... That's why they aren't as popular as they were. Yours does something pretty simple though so it should be internalized and work fine.

Howard, If you find some way to internalize the OCX, be sure to tell me. I've seen quite a few of them, and all were required to be present on the users system and registered via the the regsvr32 app. You can call regsvr32 silently for automated installers or use a 3rd party DLL and do it from your own software, but to my knowledge, it is always necessary.

RandyT

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #52 on:** August 10, 2006, 01:52:24 am »

Randy... just an update.... yours seems to be the type 2 variety.

You don't have to register it, it just has to be present in either the application folder or your system folder. It does have to be included though. I'm gonna put mine in a res file so the user won't have to deal with it.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #53 on:** August 10, 2006, 02:42:15 am »

Ok third times a charm...

[ Download ]

I also included a rather slapped-together readme.

MYX · « **Reply #54 on:** August 10, 2006, 10:33:53 am »

Hey Howard,
I have been on the PowerMAME band wagon for some time (with MAMEWah). I am sad to see PM die as it has so many great extras. Mike did some really cool work. I have been watching for alternatives to eventually switch to and I have been reading about your stuff for a while. Thank you for picking up interest in adding the GGG functionality to your FE.

I am not a programmer so please forgive the naivity of the following questions. I pick things up pretty darned fast, but alot goes right over my head. Ok, I do not know where MAME stops and the FE begins. I would love to see the extras that PM offers available in the FE world if the MAME side is too hard to keep up with. But again I do not know what the limits of the FE are. I am a GGG user for interfaces, lighting, and joys, so obviously I sit in the GGG camp and will cheer on the guy who is making progress happen. The 2 majors for me are the LEDwiz functionality and the auto DRS selection per game.

1. Are the PM extras like running a LWA when there is a coin up, or qbert knocker, something that the FE can handle or is this strictly MAME?

2. Is Auto DRS select (for the 49ways) doable with the FE? Is it like the LEDWiz in the fact that MAME broadcasts the game that it is running and you can use that to also select which DRS mode to use? In PM in the user interface (within MAME) you can change this. I understand that to be a MAME thing, not a FE thing.

3. Which I should have asked before 2, but are you considering adding the Auto DRS ability, if it is possible?

Thanks Howard

RandyT · « **Reply #55 on:** August 10, 2006, 11:01:05 am »

Ok, worked this time.

Here's something you may find interesting (I did.) It appears that Windows (2K at least) will automatically register an OCX if it is in the same folder as the executable that uses it and that executable is run.

After I ran any program that made use of the OCX, with it present in the same folder, it was ready to use by any program on the system that required it. To make the OCX inaccessible again, I had to use regsvr's /u function and feed it the path to the OCX file that was first found by the system.

BTW, the color picker is pretty cool. But if one were going to add a color picker to a utility, I would suggest the ability for the user to "offset" each of the 3 primary colors by a set value to account for variations in RGB LED's. Probably a "White-point" setting that is carried through the rest (I know this is just a start, it's just a suggestion in case you, or others haven't considered it.)

RandyT

horseboy · « **Reply #56 on:** August 10, 2006, 01:23:52 pm »

Quote from: MYX on August 10, 2006, 10:33:53 am

I am not a programmer so please forgive the naivity of the following questions. I pick things up pretty darned fast, but alot goes right over my head. Ok, I do not know where MAME stops and the FE begins. I would love to see the extras that PM offers available in the FE world if the MAME side is too hard to keep up with. But again I do not know what the limits of the FE are. I am a GGG user for interfaces, lighting, and joys, so obviously I sit in the GGG camp and will cheer on the guy who is making progress happen. The 2 majors for me are the LEDwiz functionality and the auto DRS selection per game.

Howard's FE is Dragon King, and it has nothing to do with the project at hand. This project has to do with adding LedWiz support to Johnny 5. J5 is an external app used to view the controls of a particular game. Basically it shows the layout of your cp with each button labeled with its corresponding action. Some poeple use it to show the buttons on screen before the game loads. Others have set it up show up when the game is paused. Howard is also working on dual screen functionality so that it can be displayed at all times on a second display (ie. PSone screen).

So, when I figured out PowerMame was dead, I wanted a LedWiz solution that could be used with any version of mame (and possibly other emulators). Since J5 knew what buttons were used in a game, I thought (having no programming skills, pretty much just hoping) that it would be relatively easy to implement LedWiz support into J5. I started this thread to see what Howard thought. He thought it was a good idea, and here we are...

On a side note Youki has just received a LedWiz and is planning on implementing functionality into AtomicFE, so you may want to ask him what he plans on doing with it.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #57 on:** August 10, 2006, 02:28:03 pm »

Just to clarify... I might... keyword might add ledwiz support to dk in the future. The thing is I'm not sure what a fe has to do with cp lights. I suppose I could have lights to go with skins, but right now it seems too much form and not enough function for my tastes.

However, as Aaron Giles seems to be on the output bandwagon (read the qbert thread in this forum) powrmame might not be needed anymore. It looks like we might finally get proper outputs in mame, meaning any crappy old third-party app can set lights and stuff based on real-game outputs. I am working on such an app as well, but I'm not going to bother starting until the mame stuff is worked out.

Sirp has a utility he made that'll do the 49 way stuff. You can find it over at fe.donkeyfly.com in the idvt forum.

Randy:

Yeah the color picker isn't calibrated yet. I haven't started on that part because it'll be frikkin hard to implement. It'll probably involve me taking the sliders to certain points and looking at the real world results on some ice buttons.

Yeah I found out about the ocx thing too while I was trying to figure out why the heck the thing was working without a ocx. The dropping it in the folder thing always worked, even on 98.... the thing about registering the ocx automatically kinda threw me for a loop. I'm not sure why it is done this way, seems to cause more problems than the old method. It explains why some applications seemingly don't need the components though. I've downloaded so many examples over the years the ocx's a random program might need are probably already on my drive somewhere.

RandyT · « **Reply #58 on:** August 10, 2006, 04:10:25 pm »

Quote from: Howard_Casto on August 10, 2006, 02:28:03 pm

Sirp has a utility he made that'll do the 49 way stuff. You can find it over at fe.donkeyfly.com in the idvt forum.

BTW, I think the ActiveX control is going to include GP-Wiz49 switching capabilities in the next rev. Might as well have one tool that does it all.

Quote

Yeah I found out about the ocx thing too while I was trying to figure out why the heck the thing was working without a ocx. The dropping it in the folder thing always worked, even on 98.... the thing about registering the ocx automatically kinda threw me for a loop. I'm not sure why it is done this way, seems to cause more problems than the old method. It explains why some applications seemingly don't need the components though. I've downloaded so many examples over the years the ocx's a random program might need are probably already on my drive somewhere.

Hehe, you must have forgotten about it then. That was one of the things (the ability to drop it in the same folder as the app) you just said you disliked about an OCX compared to a DLL

I've been told that an OCX is really just a more advanced DLL. This is probably part of what makes it "more advanced". It only makes sense to make the OCX available to the entire system once it is used by an application that requires it. Just the OS thinking for the user again, I guess. In this case, I think it's a "good thing."

Quote

I'm gonna put mine in a res file so the user won't have to deal with it.

BTW, I looked through the resource file stuff and didn't see any way to add an OCX. Are you sure that's possible? Or are you talking about something else?

RandyT

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #59 on:** August 10, 2006, 04:45:56 pm »

It's an old trick... doesn't always work.

You put in in a res file, then on startup of the app you check to see if the ocx exists outside of the app somewhere (check the app path and the system folders) if not you open a file (named after the ocx of course) for binary output, use loadresdata to get the ocx contained in the res file as binary data, "put" it to the file you created, and poof, the ocx is installed.

RandyT · « **Reply #60 on:** August 10, 2006, 05:09:55 pm »

If the OCX isn't in the folder with the app, then the application is going to error out before it makes it that far. Also, the size of the file has to be less than 64k to use the loadresdata function, so that will limit things as well.

Am I missing something?

RandyT

loadman · « **Reply #61 on:** August 10, 2006, 07:13:58 pm »

Great to see you guys working together

Quote

Just to clarify... I might... keyword might add ledwiz support to dk in the future. The thing is I'm not sure what a fe has to do with cp lights. I suppose I could have lights to go with skins, but right now it seems too much form and not enough function for my tastes.

FYI.
For DK 'function wise' you may want to do something similar to MaLa where you have the option of having the appropriate buttons light up when you highlight a game
and
have the added 'option' of leaving the appropriate Leds on while Mame (or other emu) is running. (for those of us who don't want/need J5 or similar tool)

And as for 'form' ....'attract mode' while the CAB is sitting there doing nothing is pretty sexy.

I love that stuff

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #62 on:** August 10, 2006, 07:22:11 pm »

Quote from: RandyT on August 10, 2006, 05:09:55 pm

If the OCX isn't in the folder with the app, then the application is going to error out before it makes it that far. Also, the size of the file has to be less than 64k to use the loadresdata function, so that will limit things as well.

Am I missing something?

RandyT

Yeah the 64k limit is the part about it not always working.

A program doesn't error out until the ocx in question is actually called upon, unless it's a form control (which yours isn't). As long as you do the check before you call the ocx of anything, you are good to go.

RandyT · « **Reply #63 on:** August 10, 2006, 10:08:57 pm »

Quote from: Howard_Casto on August 10, 2006, 07:22:11 pm

A program doesn't error out until the ocx in question is actually called upon, unless it's a form control (which yours isn't). As long as you do the check before you call the ocx of anything, you are good to go.

Ahh, yes. Should have figured that one out myself by trying it with a program that doesn't call the control immediately.

I suppose the 64k limit can be overcome as well if one were to write a little utility to split up files into 64k chunks and then re-assemble them afterwards. Seems like too much work to hide a file though.

Still an interesting item to know for future reference.

RandyT

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #64 on:** August 10, 2006, 10:13:19 pm »

Well it's not so much for hiding the files rather than managing the files, especially if you have a bunch of em. Also it eliminates a lot of user error. If your user moves the exe and forgets to move the rest of the stuff the function will re-generate it, so they can delete that original folder without error.

Space Fractal · « **Reply #65 on:** August 11, 2006, 09:29:39 am »

yep, these problem do the dll not have. They dosen

RandyT · « **Reply #66 on:** August 11, 2006, 09:43:06 am »

Quote from: Space Fractal / Denmark on August 11, 2006, 09:29:39 am

yep, these problem do the dll not have. They dosen

Space Fractal · « **Reply #67 on:** August 11, 2006, 10:07:03 am »

a DLL is just a function library with bunch of functions. You need to call the function by you self, like it was a regular function.

Now I leave here so I dosne

mr.Curmudgeon · « **Reply #68 on:** August 11, 2006, 09:20:58 pm »

Quote from: Howard_Casto on August 10, 2006, 02:42:15 am

Ok third times a charm...

Yup. Worked.. pretty neat...can't wait for a stand-alone LED lighty prog. Hopefully one that will allow the lights to respond to music/sound ect., as well
as various mame signals. I understand the MAME part needs to be worked out first, but the possibilities are exciting all the same.

Tried the ambient light setting, didn't work with Mame32. I assume it's for regular ole' mame?

mrC

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #69 on:** August 14, 2006, 12:58:41 am »

Ok guys... back on topic, the j5 beta is out, please look here:

http://fe.donkeyfly.com/forum/index.php?topic=119.255

It isn't on my site yet because I didn't spend a lot of time packaging it up and I'm sure I've forgotten something, be it files, docs or otherwise. Once we are sure everything is there I will release it as the official beta.

Oh one important note: For users that do NOT intend to use the new light functionality, please delete or rename your lights.ini in the lights folder as well as your default.clf There isn't any point in wasting resources to light something that isn't there.

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #70 on:** August 26, 2006, 08:04:56 pm »

Quote from: MYX on August 10, 2006, 10:33:53 am

Ok, I do not know where MAME stops and the FE begins.

You really have three different things that can be going on. (Without knowing if you are familiar with the previous version of Johnny5, etc).

1) You can modify MAME so the it sets DRS modes correctly, sets LEDwiz lights, calls Johnny5 on pause, etc. This is where MikeQ was going with PowerMAME, but it's pretty difficult even with an app that isn't re-written every six months or less.

2) You can setup your frontend so that along with launching a game, it also sets the correct DRS modes, or monitors for certain keypresses, etc. (GameEx does a little of this, but most FE's don't do this.).

3) You can use third party software that runs in the background and does certain things when certain keys are pressed. These can be launched by (most) frontends prior to calling MAME. (Howard C's AutoHotKey script for Johnny 5 and SirPoonga's DRS modes software would be examples of this.)

Quote

1. Are the PM extras like running a LWA when there is a coin up, or qbert knocker, something that the FE can handle or is this strictly MAME?

Typically neither. MAME normally would not do this until MikeQ modified it. Most FE's are not going to support it. What you will likely see is Aaron Giles seems to be pretty determined to fix the output (LED's (specifically 7-segment LED's), lighting in Beatmania, possibly force-feedback down the line, Q-bert knockers, lighting events (Weapons Van light in spyhunter)) side of MAME.

When this happens, it will be easier to write specific third party software to watch for these event triggers from MAME and act on them.

You can see this in 0.108 with the keyboard LED's which are now run off an external program rather than from inside MAME.

Quote

2. Is Auto DRS select (for the 49ways) doable with the FE?

Yes - with GameEx, it can be done inside the frontend, however it is usually done outside the FE with SirPoonga's app. See http://www.mameworld.net/tigerheli/set49mode/

Quote

Is it like the LEDWiz in the fact that MAME broadcasts the game that it is running and you can use that to also select which DRS mode to use?

No, it is not quite like the LEDWiz in that rather than having SirP's app running constantly and listening for MAME to launch so it can get the rom name, you simply call SirP's app and pass it the rom name when your FE launches a game.

Quote

In PM in the user interface (within MAME) you can change this. I understand that to be a MAME thing, not a FE
thing.

In PM it is a MAME thing, but that is the only time it would be and only b/c MikeQ coded it that way.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #71 on:** August 26, 2006, 09:17:47 pm »

Continuing what tiger already answered:

The beta of j5 I released has a -justlight tag. What this means is a fe can launch it prior to mame and set the lights for you. I don't have it setup to run in the background because j5 takes a considerable amount of resources when loading a entry and it's a tad slow starting up.

Aaron's output method works pretty well. I've already started on an app to make use of the outputs but I'm having trouble retriving the id names. Once that is done I will make a resident app. I've actually got a little test app up and running, but since you guys probably need the outputs labeled "Led1" instead of "12345" I think I better wait to release it.

This kind of stuff doesn't have anything to do with j5 so it will never be included in j5. J5 is about controls, not controlling do-dads. The only reason I'm adding light support is because it's an alternative way to label buttons, which falls into J5's scope.

There are a ton of outputs already supported initially, so this is a exciting turn of events. Btw... the force-feedback support is not a problem. I primarily use dx8 to write stuff anymore and it has very good ff support. it's ony a matter of linking a mame trigger to a ff-effect or directly streaming raw data into the motors.

Timoe · « **Reply #72 on:** August 27, 2006, 10:45:33 am »

I'm getting a runtime error 399. the "Ledwizm.ocx is missing or not found" but I have thie file in both my J5 and Ledwiz folders.

??

Any ideas?

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #73 on:** August 27, 2006, 05:25:56 pm »

Are you running 98? 98 might require you to register the files. I can help you with that if you want.

I don't reccomend running 98 on a cabinet anymore which is why I didn't mention it.

Timoe · « **Reply #74 on:** August 27, 2006, 06:07:08 pm »

Win XP Pro, SP2

Could it be that when doing minor tweaks to XP from the suggestions at this forum that I have disabled some process and that is causing my problem here?

Maybe this is why I'm also having problems with Zinc?

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #75 on:** August 28, 2006, 02:02:14 pm »

It's very possible.

Try this and see if it helps.

1. Copy those files into your sytem32 folder.

2. Open up a command prompt, navigate to that folder and type:

regsvr32.exe ledwizm.ocx

Xp is supposed to auto-register, but if you've done tweaks then it probably doesn't anymore.

Please allow me to complain for a sec.

[rant]

I completely understand the fact that people running mame cabs want to stream-line things, and I do it as well. With that being said, due to dependancies of helper apps there are only about three things you can tweak safely in xp. 1. Turn on disk-backup, 2. Turn off themes. 3. Turn off dr. watson.

Everything else is required.

[/rant]

Ok I'm done.

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #76 on:** August 28, 2006, 02:21:43 pm »

Quote from: Howard_Casto on August 28, 2006, 02:02:14 pm

[rant]

I completely understand the fact that people running mame cabs want to stream-line things, and I do it as well. With that being said, due to dependancies of helper apps there are only about three things you can tweak safely in xp. 1. Turn on disk-backup, 2. Turn off themes. 3. Turn off dr. watson.

Everything else is required.
[/rant]

I think you can also turn off System Restore and Disk Indexing Service which are the major resource hogs. But in general I agree, I've followed Black Viper's guides more than once and had things fail b/c some process that usually wasn't required turned out to be required for some installation or program I discovered.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #77 on:** August 28, 2006, 02:29:16 pm »

By disk backup I meant system restore. But yeah I forgot about indexing service. I was thinking that was off by default though. Now I'm going to have to check.

headkaze · « **Reply #78 on:** September 24, 2006, 05:17:51 pm »

Quote from: RandyT on August 10, 2006, 11:01:05 am

BTW, the color picker is pretty cool. But if one were going to add a color picker to a utility, I would suggest the ability for the user to "offset" each of the 3 primary colors by a set value to account for variations in RGB LED's. Probably a "White-point" setting that is carried through the rest (I know this is just a start, it's just a suggestion in case you, or others haven't considered it.)

I have no idea if this will help, but a really simple way to create a professional colour picker is to just have a picturebox with a colour wheel that registers a mouse down event and uses GetPixel to read the RBG value. Attached is a colour wheel you could use. Not sure if it's what your after, but in general they are much easier to use than colour sliders.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #79 on:** September 24, 2006, 08:17:32 pm »

That's not the issue. I actually use a color wheel for one of my transition tests doing what you describe.

The issue is that led colors are not the same as colors on your monitor. As the color value is lowered on your pc, the color approaches black. On your ice button, it first gets dimmer and then approaches white (the color of the button). I don't think it'll ever get to the point that you can calibrate it exactly because of this, but your major arcade button colors could be mapped out and matched with the proper windows color picker swatches.

MYX · « **Reply #80 on:** September 25, 2006, 08:13:04 am »

In theory you can make up to 110,592 different variances (48³), but your right, with the white buttons, you'll never see em. I have found that even making jumps of 5 points higher in a given setting sometimes is hard to see a difference. If you made divisions at like every 8 points (6 points total for each color) you could make a sort of accurate color picker with 216 colors. I made a little cheet sheet for my self of number to colors. But in Randy's app, it takes for ever when trying to make any complex animations.

RandyT · « **Reply #81 on:** September 25, 2006, 10:14:54 am »

Quote from: Howard_Casto on September 24, 2006, 08:17:32 pm

That's not the issue. I actually use a color wheel for one of my transition tests doing what you describe.

The issue is that led colors are not the same as colors on your monitor. As the color value is lowered on your pc, the color approaches black. On your ice button, it first gets dimmer and then approaches white (the color of the button). I don't think it'll ever get to the point that you can calibrate it exactly because of this, but your major arcade button colors could be mapped out and matched with the proper windows color picker swatches.

Yes and no. There's the transmitted "white" light created by the LED and there's the reflected white of the buttons. In a dark room, the colors can indeed go to "black", but most will have some sort of room lighting. This means that the darkest color the buttons will appear is equal to the amount of ambient light reflected from them.

Calibration would probably be a little difficult and would have to be based on the response curves of the LED. But if one were to try, it should also be based on a normal to dimly illuminated room. Looking at the buttons in front of a east-facing bay window at 9am probably isn't going to be very useful

MYX:

That's an interesting thought. A user color palette rather than a mixer (or combination of the two). I can see this being especially useful if there were an equate table that allowed the user to mix the color for the LED separately from the color of the on-screen representation.

RandyT

MYX · « **Reply #82 on:** September 25, 2006, 09:56:11 pm »

Quote from: RandyT on September 25, 2006, 10:14:54 am

MYX:

That's an interesting thought. A user color palette rather than a mixer (or combination of the two). I can see this being especially useful if there were an equate table that allowed the user to mix the color for the LED separately from the color of the on-screen representation.

RandyT

Yeah, it would be a rough estimate. Kinda like doing photoshop on a LCD. Never looks the same on a glass monitor, but you get the general idea.

headkaze · « **Reply #83 on:** September 26, 2006, 08:42:10 am »

Hey Howard, I noticed you mentioned losing your LEDWiz work in your HDD crash. I found some interesting code in VB6 that will read the audio levels. Of course you have to set your Recording to Stereo Mix so it registers all sound playing through the PC. I knew you were already working towards doing this, so it should fast track things a bit so you can get the LED's working in time with audio.

I was thinking about writing a tray app to do this myself, but I don't think I can be bothered since I have no interest in adding a LEDWiz to my cab.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #84 on:** September 26, 2006, 06:38:05 pm »

I appreciate it, but the now ancient dragonator jukebox program I made in the stone age had some beat detection software (basically working the same way you mentioned) so I have the source I need.

My ledwiz stuff is on hold for a while myself. Right now I am getting dk ready. Personally I'll probably never use my ledwiz either, unless some mame devs use the output functions to do some force-feedback stuff. I'm not big on blinkly lights, although it is cool to mess with and I do like the idea of lighting up your layout.

headkaze · « **Reply #85 on:** September 26, 2006, 07:44:14 pm »

Quote from: Howard_Casto on September 26, 2006, 06:38:05 pm

I appreciate it, but the now ancient dragonator jukebox program I made in the stone age had some beat detection software (basically working the same way you mentioned) so I have the source I need.

My ledwiz stuff is on hold for a while myself. Right now I am getting dk ready. Personally I'll probably never use my ledwiz either, unless some mame devs use the output functions to do some force-feedback stuff. I'm not big on blinkly lights, although it is cool to mess with and I do like the idea of lighting up your layout.

Perhaps you can use the LEDWiz to light up your XMas tree at the end of the year

Rudi · « **Reply #86 on:** September 27, 2006, 08:35:49 pm »

Have you posted your Dualie program yet to support J5?

-Rudi

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #87 on:** September 27, 2006, 09:09:32 pm »

Not yet........ we'll see it this winter probably. Mame has had rendering changes wihich effect it and it needs more testing.

Rudi · « **Reply #88 on:** September 29, 2006, 04:49:54 pm »

If you want a beta tester, I've got the hardware ready for my next cab. I just have to build the cab and CP. I've got to finish up another project first, but winter is when I'll be working on the dual monitor unit.

-Rudi

arzoo · « **Reply #89 on:** October 05, 2006, 09:57:34 am »

Count me in as one who would love to see j5 support for a second ledwiz device.

Anyway, I

RandyT · « **Reply #90 on:** October 05, 2006, 01:23:37 pm »

Quote from: arzoo on October 05, 2006, 09:57:34 am

I

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #91 on:** October 05, 2006, 09:15:55 pm »

Quote from: arzoo on October 05, 2006, 09:57:34 am

Count me in as one who would love to see j5 support for a second ledwiz device.

Anyway, I

arzoo · « **Reply #92 on:** October 06, 2006, 08:12:43 am »

Quote from: Howard_Casto on October 05, 2006, 09:15:55 pm

The beta supports all 16 theoretical devices. Color coding by label caption though, that would be a futile effort as most captions are not shared amoungst games and you would have to pretty much manually light each game and in that case there is no point in putting j5 in the equation.

That's great to hear that j5 supports multiple devices!

As for the color by button function - I agree, this would have to be configured on a game by game basis. In fact, pm lets you do just that. I just thought that for the couple dozen games that I really like to play, I would set up the color file. I'm just trying to figure out a way to make good use of the rgb buttons!

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #93 on:** October 07, 2006, 12:00:08 am »

well j5 supports a colors.ini, it's just one doesn't exist yet. The idea is to document the colors of the actual buttons used on the arcade machine.

digitaldj · « **Reply #94 on:** October 08, 2006, 03:13:05 pm »

You guys have been talking about mixing colors from the rgb leds and there is a complete science to this. First off alot depends on the rgb led specs, second the frequency of the pwm cycle(which pwm is not the best choice) and third the operating voltage. The operating voltage makes a big difference, i know you think i'm crazy but they are current devices but depend on voltage for the current range(ohms law). Here is a good example to develope white from rgb led at 12volts the red led will be set to 20ma but green and blue will be at app. 10ma(so you loose some current range compared to red), at 5 volts red set at 20ma the green and blue app. 5ma. Green and blue being at totally higher wavelenghts then red of coarse appear alot brighter. I am designing a lighting system for my juke and the processor board runs the leds at 5volts so for me to get a great color spectrum i have added a extra red led to the rgb to get the red brightness up so i can get the green and blue current up and this gives me the current range i need. I typically don't like rgb leds for projects because of the poor insentity of the red led portion(very big manufaturing flaw). When dealing with rgb leds like i have you have to accomodate for this problem either in the fashion i did by adding the extra red or by the pwm frequency. Color kinetics deals with some of these problems in their software and is the only company to do this and is patented. You would typically have to design a alogorhythm based on typical rgb specs with maybe some controls for tweaking this.

The other thing is you will never generate the other end of the color spectrum which includes black(which is the absence of color). There is three colors that can generate black but these are not made to my knowledge at least not in a led. I know you're saying i thought he just said black was the absence of color but now we are talking about black as being generated as a artists color. If you are making you own lighting you can use tinted acylic(non glare) and put it over the white. Now the great mystery is how does a TV get black?

Check this out!
http://www.colorado.edu/physics/2000/tv/colortv.html
http://home.att.net/~RTRUSCIO/COLORMX.htm

Additive and Subtractive Color
Televisions, cameras, scanners and computer monitors are based on the additive system of color (RGB), where red, green and blue light projected together yield white. Offset printing, digital printing, paints, plastics, fabric and photographic prints are based on the subtractive system of color (CMY/CMYK) in which cyan, magenta and yellow mix to form black (K).

Jukeman

RandyT · « **Reply #95 on:** October 08, 2006, 08:04:47 pm »

Sound like you are reading an awful lot into your experiments. LED's vary greatly in their output capabilities. Your requirement of using 2 red LEDs for 1 each of green and blue speaks more to the type of LED's you are using than the differences between colors. Decent RGB LED's are tuned to allow one to achieve a fairly convincing "white" with little difficulty.

Quote from: Jukeman on October 08, 2006, 03:13:05 pm

The other thing is you will never generate the other end of the color spectrum which includes black(which is the absence of color). There is three colors that can generate black but these are not made to my knowledge at least not in a led. I know you're saying i thought he just said black was the absence of color but now we are talking about black as being generated as a artists color. If you are making you own lighting you can use tinted acylic(non glare) and put it over the white. Now the great mystery is how does a TV get black?

There are no "colors" that can generate black. Black is the total absorption or lack of light. Putting a tinted acrylic cover over a white LED does nothing more than filter out certain wavelengths relative to the specs of the material. If the wavelength isn't there in the LED, or not there in sufficient levels, the tinted cover won't do what you expect it to. If you are talking about dark tinted acrylic to produce "dark" light, then that is just silly.

There is no great mystery as to how "black" is generated on a CRT. The electron beam gun shuts off and the phosphor is not excited so no light is produced.. The quality of the "blacks" you get are based on the shade of the phosphor on the inside of the screen, the tint of the CRT glass, and the amount of ambient light in the room where the CRT is viewed.

Quote

Additive and Subtractive Color
Offset printing, digital printing, paints, plastics, fabric and photographic prints are based on the subtractive system of color (CMY/CMYK) in which cyan, magenta and yellow mix to form black (K).

This is just incorrect. (K) is black. No real offset / digital printers use a 3 color process, rather a 4 color process which includes real black ink. Cyan, Magenta and Yellow by themselves just produce a muddy dark gray, which is why inkjet printers which use separate CMY and Black (K) ink cartridges produce vastly superior text and imagery.

Also, this is not precision spectrometry here. If you are trying make an orange light, and of 10 people 9 say the color is "orange" and the tenth says it's a slightly reddish orange, there's good chance you succeeded in making an orange light. Anything beyond that in this application is overkill to the nth degree.

Presets with user defined R, G and B values which are linked to on-screen color icons is probably all anyone would really need.

RandyT

digitaldj · « **Reply #96 on:** October 08, 2006, 09:24:53 pm »

True that they will generate white but will not generate the color spectrum like it should. I have experimented with every rgb that is available on the market as part of research project for a college term paper.

The tinted acrylic is only to simulate what would be the phosphor of a TV screen and when illuminated with varying brightness of white can produce shades of gray. I never said there was a great mystery to a TV generating black.

Actually commercial printing equipment use more colors to generate the full color spectrum.

Still with CMY it is very close to black and would suffice instead of none. Matter of fact 48 steps of PWM is definately over kill. Generating over 4096 is going to be way more than the human eye can typically see.

Wow! You try to make this all sound so simple which tells me that you lack the knowledge on the subject. Try to tell Color Kinetics(leading L.e.d. Lighting Manufaturer) what their doing is putting way to much effort into their products and see what they tell you.

Besides i was only making reference to my findings and just take from it what you will.

Jukeman

RandyT · « **Reply #97 on:** October 08, 2006, 09:43:45 pm »

Quote from: Jukeman on October 08, 2006, 09:24:53 pm

Still with CMY it is very close to black and would suffice instead of none at all which your board doesn't seem to be able to do. Matter of fact 48 steps of PWM is definately over kill. Generating over 4096 is going to be way more than the human eye can see.

Well, it might be if the LED-Wiz was only designed with LED's in mind. The fact is, it can operate as a 48 level DC motor speed control, or any other application where PWM might be desirable. The fact that it can give you that level of adjusrment with an LED is so much the better. No point in crippling something if you have the capability to make it better.

Quote

Actually commercial printing equipment use more colors to generate the full color spectrum.

4 color process is still the standard. Most inkjets don't have the color gamut that commercial offset printers have with their inks and therefore have intermediate colors to fill in the gaps.

Quote

Wow! You try to make this all sound so simple which tells me that you lack the knowledge on the subject.

I spent 7 years doing thin film deposition and manufacturing laser optics and another 5 on top of that in glasses-free 3D system design and manufacture. I know a thing or two about "light."

RandyT

digitaldj · « **Reply #98 on:** October 08, 2006, 10:08:05 pm »

What makes you think i have differences with alot of folks, it seems it's just you? If you are refering to the differences i have with the guys that have Virtual Jukbox software then it speaks for it's self.

I have spent a year working with and developing my own lighting and just wanted to share my findings so if you don't believe them then that is fine. I guess my new employer may be dissapointed in my knowledge(not)we will see. I get to move to the town of sin and work with a lighting company that designs lighting systems used on casinos and corporate buildings all over the world.

Laser is whole different animal and i don't know how you can compare that to L.e.d. lighting.

And like i said 48 steps is way overkill, looks like you need to read alot more about led lighting. As i was going to mention before and took it out of the post that it seems like you have a problem with me and you must feel threatened by what i am doing.

Let's just get back to what the original posts were all about! If you want to brow beat me then do it by email.
Jukeman

arzoo · « **Reply #99 on:** October 09, 2006, 08:19:43 am »

Quote from: Howard_Casto on October 07, 2006, 12:00:08 am

well j5 supports a colors.ini, it's just one doesn't exist yet. The idea is to document the colors of the actual buttons used on the arcade machine.

Can I create my own colors.ini for a selected set of games?

mahuti · « **Reply #100 on:** October 10, 2006, 06:49:38 pm »

To sum up Jukeman's comments...

he doesn't like using RGB leds himself.
tv's are black when they're turned off
sometimes printers use "RICH BLACK" c+m+y+k
putting a black plastic cap over a led will make the color black.

I think what we should get out of this is that we should swap our white buttons for black whenever we want to use the color "black." Randy, can you build some sort of button that flips inside a control panel from white to black when it gets a signal from the ledwiz? Perfect.

OK, now... like arzoo said... can I create my own colors.ini?

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #101 on:** October 10, 2006, 11:30:12 pm »

yup... it's included in the data section with a sample game. Just find the controls.ini entry for the game, copy it over and replace the caption with a r,g,b value.

This whole led color discussion is moot btw... what you a jukeman are forgetting is that the button, not the led is the thing we wish to color. No matter how kind of do-kickey we put on the led itself, the button will be white when it is turned off. Even if you aren't using it with a button, a diffusor is needed to blend the colors properly. It's nearly impossible to make a black diffusor that will work well. It isn't totally impossible, just nearly. it's be hard to get white and yellow by shining through a black object.

The only way (that I know of) to generate black is to fill an object with liquid quartz and make it into a giant lcd. Run current through it and it turns black. Unfortuantely it would be nearly impossible to make such an item in the shape of a button.

Since no one has complained about the beta, I will repackage it as the "official" j5 build later this weekend.

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #102 on:** October 14, 2006, 06:05:46 pm »

Quote from: Howard_Casto on October 10, 2006, 11:30:12 pm

The only way (that I know of) to generate black is to fill an object with liquid quartz and make it into a giant lcd. Run current through it and it turns black. Unfortuantely it would be nearly impossible to make such an item in the shape of a button.

Except for those Russian keyboard manufacturers. . .

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #103 on:** October 14, 2006, 06:46:29 pm »

Quote from: Tiger-Heli on October 14, 2006, 06:05:46 pm

Quote from: Howard_Casto on October 10, 2006, 11:30:12 pm
The only way (that I know of) to generate black is to fill an object with liquid quartz and make it into a giant lcd. Run current through it and it turns black. Unfortuantely it would be nearly impossible to make such an item in the shape of a button.
Except for those Russian keyboard manufacturers. . .

If you are talking about that keyboard with the little lcd displays in them, the button isn't an lcd, rather the little screen inside it is. Keyboard keys are square too. In order for it to look right the entire arcade button (not just the top or a disc inside) would have to be quartzified, which would be hard to say the least.

loadman · « **Reply #104 on:** November 07, 2006, 08:48:08 pm »

Does this post need to be sticky anymore?

arzoo · « **Reply #105 on:** January 06, 2007, 02:41:20 pm »

Howard,
I was wondering if you would consider a modification to the way J5 defines the individual LEDs in Lights.ini? As it stands, each RGB led must have all 3 leads wired to the same LEDWiz device. It would be much more flexible if RGBs could span devices - I'll explain why I think this would help. Since there is no way to set multiple LEDWiz devices into a master/slave configuration, only one can act as the control for sequencing. That limits a cp to at most 10 buttons in a sequence - assuming each requires all three RGB values to define the color. But if you're willing to limit the sequencing LEDs to a single color, you can now use up to 32 buttons and still provide multiple color options for each button during game play.

I'll use my cp as an example - I have 16 RGB buttons, 1 LED for the Trackball, and 4 single LED admin buttons (Atari volcano's). The blue lead for the RGBs, and the other single LEDs are all wired to device 1 (21 ports used). The red and green leads for the RGBs are wired to device 2 (32 ports used). With this layout, I can sequence all the LEDs together (RGBs only in blue), and still light the RGBs in other colors for game play.

It may be that not many members have cps with so many LEDs or that they're not interested in an attract mode sequence, but I still think this would be a useful enhancement to J5 - it would certainly help me out.

loadman · « **Reply #106 on:** January 06, 2007, 04:19:49 pm »

Quote

Since there is no way to set multiple LEDWiz devices into a master/slave configuration, only one can act as the control for sequencing.

...hmmm Unless I read this wrong.

I don't know about J5 but..

There is no reason why you can't have animation sequences span multiple Led-Wiz.

I am doing that now making the attract mode for the Led-Wiz Plugin.

RandyT's animation file format only accounts for one wiz so that needed to be changed.

As I say I could have missunderstood what you meant

arzoo · « **Reply #107 on:** January 06, 2007, 04:55:25 pm »

Quote from: loadman on January 06, 2007, 04:19:49 pm

Quote
Since there is no way to set multiple LEDWiz devices into a master/slave configuration, only one can act as the control for sequencing.

...hmmm Unless I read this wrong.

I don't know about J5 but..

There is no reason why you can't have animation sequences span multiple Led-Wiz.

I am doing that now making the attract mode for the Led-Wiz Plugin.

RandyT's animation file format only accounts for one wiz so that needed to be changed.

As I say I could have missunderstood what you meant

Did Randy modify his animation file format to allow for multiple devices? Back when I bought mine, they could not do that, which is why I've wired my LEDs across the two devices. How do multiple devices stay in sync?

loadman · « **Reply #108 on:** January 07, 2007, 04:38:48 am »

Quote

Did Randy modify his animation file format to allow for multiple devices? Back when I bought mine, they could not do that, which is why I've wired my LEDs across the two devices. How do multiple devices stay in sync?

No, But he told me what his intension are so I basically followed that

You can address all Ledwiz with a command or just one


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