Buttons required for 4 player MAME panel

[clhug]

I want to confirm what I really need to buttons for a 4 player control panel for MAME.  This will be ONLY a MAME cabinet, no other emulators and no PC games.  But I essentially want to be able to play all MAME games that use from 1 to 4 players, or any 6 player games with up to 4 players (assuming those 6 player games allow only 4 players).

From what I've been able to read up on, it looks like I need 6 buttons for players 1 & 2, and only 4 buttons for players 3 & 4.  Is that correct?

For players 3 & 4, what's the best way to arrange the 4 buttons?  A 2x2 square, or a row of 3 with one underneath, or 4 in a row?  (From what I've seen, the 6 buttons for P's 1 & 2 should be 2 rows of 3.)

Why do I see so many panels that have 7, or even some with 8 buttons, not just for P's 1 & 2 but for all 4 players?  Is that for other emulators or PC games?

Also, I've searched around and can't seem to find one, but does anybody have a graphic, or perhaps PDF file, of the typical 6 or 7 button layout that I could print out and use to mark the panel? 

Thank you!

[GGKoul]

spend 2 secs and do a search...

P1 & P2 (6 or 7 buttons)  P3 & P4 (4 buttons will do)

[link2005a]

spend 2 secs and do a search...

P1 & P2 (6 or 7 buttons)  P3 & P4 (4 buttons will do)

It was just a question, there are a ton of posts here, trying to find one single topic isn't the easiest thing. If you don't want to waste your time with questions that have already been answered, then just don't answer. No need to be an ass.

[escher]

spend 2 secs and do a search...

P1 & P2 (6 or 7 buttons)  P3 & P4 (4 buttons will do)

It was just a question, there are a ton of posts here, trying to find one single topic isn't the easiest thing. If you don't want to waste your time with questions that have already been answered, then just don't answer. No need to be an ass.

While he was a bit of a jerk about, he also answered the guy's question.  Harsh enough to let him know what he should have done, but nice enough to actually answer the main question.  clhug got the answer he needed, and I bet he'll look a little harder next time. 

Now, for the rest of it, it's all personal preference.  The main reason for 7 buttons is to add the NeoGeo style fighter pad (bottom four buttons) to the Capcom style fighter pad (2 x 3).  I don't know many (any?) arcade games that will use all 7.  As for why people do it for all four, I'd assume it's either for consistency or console ROMs.  Personally, it never made much sense to me.

www.arcadecontrols.com/files/Miscellaneous/CapcomTemplate/Capcom_2P-6B_Template.gif is a good layout to start with, if you're into fighters of course.

[clhug]

Thanks for the suggestions folks.  I do appreciate it.  Thanks the pointer to the template escher.

In my own defense, I did search, LOTS, before writing my initial message.  I found lots of messages talking about different layouts and pictures of layouts but not a specific printable overlay.  However, I thought again about the search terms I was using.  I hadn't tried the word "template".  Once I did that then some posts with exactly what I was looking for turned up.

Similarly on the buttons.  I find lots of posts talking about certain games that use certain numbers of buttons and how many you have to have but I couldn't find anything that conclusively told me exctly what I wanted to know.  I put together what I thought was the correct answer based on what I had read and simply wanted confirmation.

And posts like GGKoul's were exactly why I was so confused on the buttons.  "P1 & P2 (6 or 7 buttons)..."  Which is it, 6 or 7, and if the 7th is optional, why do I or don't I want it?  But thank you again escher for explaining that to me.  I understand it.  I don't think I'd be playing any NeoGeo stuff so 6 should be fine for me.  I guess I could always add a 7th later too if I end up needing.  I'd rather leave it out and end up adding it then put it in and never use it.

One question left though.  For players 3 & 4 with only 4 buttons, what's the best arrangement for that?  A single row of 4 buttons, 2x2 sqaure, or maybe even row of 3 with a single button under that  (basically the 2x3 layout for 6 buttons but only 1 button in the 2nd row)?

Thanks again.  I appreciate the responses!

[Scott84]

Even if you wanted to have SNES 4 player.. i dont even thing theres a game that would use all the buttons from the SNES controller.

[kelemvor]

For players 3&4 I'd do the 2x2 button layout.  I guess it could jsut be personal preference but I think most games had them setup that way rather than 4 in a row or 3 & 1.

[hypernova]

FWIW, since you apparently haven't played neogeo games, either at all, or not very often, they only use four buttons.  Like me, it won't matter how they're situated, since I never played them in the arcades.  NeoGeos aren't just fighters and such.  Isn't Metal Slug a NeoGeo?

Also, your orientation for 3 and 4?  You could go with a square set at a 45 degree angle (diamond.)  While I haven't been able to play it yet (setting up software currently,) preliminarily, it feels good.  Since the middle finger is a bit longer, it hits the top button, while the index and ring fingers touch the buttons on its lower sides.  AFAIK, only a few select games actually use the 4th button for P3 and P4.  (From what I've heard, mainly the D&D games, I think, something in that genre.)  Someone confirm.

[clhug]

Thanks for the additional feedback everyone!  I like that diamond idea for P3&4.  I'll have to think about that.  The only down side I see is that it would make it more difficult to add more buttons later if I ever found a reason to (assuming I'd want to end up with the 2x3 format for 6 buttons in the end).  But I'll definitely consider it.

[zvar]

Another good thing to do is get a cardboard box, mount your joysticks and buttons in it and see how the everything looks and feels before cutting the wood (and plexi, if you are doing that.)

Steven

[quarterstringer]

I like that diamond idea for P3&4.  I'll have to think about that.  The only down side I see is that it would make it more difficult to add more buttons later if I ever found a reason to (assuming I'd want to end up with the 2x3 format for 6 buttons in the end).  But I'll definitely consider it.

Instead of doing a diamond with buttons at 45 degrees, try a flatter diamond style.
Sort of like this, but without the big spaces between the buttons.

                                      O
                               O            O
                                      O

Then you can add two more buttons to the bottom row.

                                      O
                               O            O
                                      O
                               O            O
       
 

[RobotronNut]

there are a bunch of games that originally used the thumb and first 2 fingers of your right hand, e.g. defender, asteroids, blasteriods, gravitar, space duel, etc. and which play the best in using those fingers (IMHO).

you can use the lower-left, top-middle, and top-right buttons of a 6-button group, but i don't like having the extra buttons in my palm. i prefer the 7-button group for these games.

[clhug]

I just today thought of a reason for doing the 4 buttons on P3&4 as a row of 3 and a single below, like this...

      o o o
      o

instead of the square or diamond.  That is to be consistent with P1&2 controls for 4 player games.  I'm guessing most people have their 6 buttons for P1&2 set up as...
   
    1 2 3
    4 5 6

With the square on P3&4, button 4 is now button 3 and button 5 is now button 4.  So for any one user to be able to go between P1&2 or P3&4, it would make sense to me that the buttons for P3&4 should be similar to 1&2.

I realize that I could remap, or even install the buttons for P1&2 to match P3&4 but I think that would be more work.  And I suppose somebody who plays a lot could easily change between the different button layouts for different players, but I want friends who come over to play to be able play any player they want.

So it may not look the best, but I think for playability consistency I'm going with 3 & 1 on P3 & P4.