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Author Topic: Rewire TV?  (Read 3328 times)

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Keith O

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Rewire TV?
« on: April 07, 2002, 04:21:39 pm »
I'm currently using an s-video connection from my ATI card to my television (which is housed in an arcade cab). The picture quality is very good but I'm wondering if it would be better if I directly connected my TV to my VGA output on the card (using the NTSC option in MAME of course so I don't fry my TV). Will I see a difference in quality?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by 1026619200 »

Alienreb

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Re: Rewire TV?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2002, 06:30:31 pm »
You probably need to stick with your current configuration.  VGA quality is very poor (for obvious reasons) when directly connected to a TV.  If you aren't using S-video, then I would recommend using component video (not composite).   Of course,  you could always go through the hassle of configuring one of those damn arcade monitors that burn out (or burn in, depending on how lucky you are) in three or four years.  S-video is the way to go, my friend, if you are using good cables and a quality brand TV.   Stay your course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by 1026619200 »

Keith O

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Re: Rewire TV?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2002, 02:07:20 pm »
Are you sure about the quality? It seems to me that the VGA output would result in the purest signal because it's broken down into the appropiate signals. The reason I'm asking is because I have high quality cables, a decent TV-out card (ATI Rage Fury), and a decent TV (RCA) and it looks fuzzy when compared to an actual arcade game. When I play Galaga at home, the colors are bright but the edges are soft but when I see it in the arcade (rare, I know) the edges are solid.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by 1026619200 »

RandyT

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Re: Rewire TV?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2002, 03:05:19 pm »
Quote
I'm currently using an s-video connection from my ATI card to my television (which is housed in an arcade cab). The picture quality is very good but I'm wondering if it would be better if I directly connected my TV to my VGA output on the card (using the NTSC option in MAME of course so I don't fry my TV). Will I see a difference in quality?


Just out of curiousity, how might you intend to hook VGA to a normal TV set?

Normal TVs don't provide the proper circuitry for a direct connection of VGA signals.

Keith O

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Re: Rewire TV?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2002, 08:21:03 pm »
I'm going off this information in the Tech & Tips section:

"Most PC video cards use Red, Green, Blue, Horizontal Sync and Vertical Sync to display an image.  An arcade monitor uses the same setup it just uses them at different frequencies.   To achieve the lower arcade frequency is easy, you just use MAME
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by 1026619200 »

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Re: Rewire TV?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2002, 09:15:33 pm »
Quote

With that in mind, it's my understanding that an arcade monitor is just a TV without a tuner (please correct me if I'm wrong) so that's why I'm considering this option if it yeilds better results.


Well, you're right in theory, but it turns out that only very high end equipment (TVs and projectors) actually implement the RGB inputs in the SCART connector. (Which I find rather weird, as it should just be a matter of bypassing the chroma/luma->RGB matrix... After all, the CRT takes RGB!) Most handle only chroma/luma/sync input, which, OTOH, is a lot better than composite. Technically, it should be equivalent to S-video, but AFAIK, the SCART standard doesn't say anything about higher resolutions than PAL or NTSC, that most S-video devices can handle...

(To avoid confusion: Note that having either chroma or luma carrying sync doesn't really affect the image quality, so two wires + shield/GND is sufficient. That is, SCART without RGB should have no advantage over S-video.)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by 1026619200 »

Rick Osborn

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Re: Rewire TV?
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2002, 11:49:43 am »
I am also using an ATI Rage Fury Pro connected via S-Video to a 27" RCA TV.  I think the picture quality is very good and I have no complaints when playing games (MAME or PC games).

The only issue I have with the TV picture quality is with text quality when on the net or using e-mail.  The text is readable and doesn't bother me much, but it is a bit blurry and not too sharp.  

But I would rather have a TV in 800x600 resolution than an arcade monitor or PC monitor anyday.  My opinion is a TV is much more versatile than an arcade monitor.  I also don't like the way a PC monitor looks for MAME.  I thought about the 27" VGA monitors that other users have talked about, but the 640x480 resolution doesn't cut it for me.  

I have also used Sharp 27" TVs and get no better or worse of a picture than the RCA too.  I actually prefer the Sharp TVs I have used over my model RCA (slimline) because of the longer neck on the Sharp.  The longer neck gives me better placement for my metal brackets I use when mounting the TV.  

Rick


Quote
I'm currently using an s-video connection from my ATI card to my television (which is housed in an arcade cab). The picture quality is very good but I'm wondering if it would be better if I directly connected my TV to my VGA output on the card (using the NTSC option in MAME of course so I don't fry my TV). Will I see a difference in quality?

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by 1026619200 »

ophtho

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Re: Rewire TV?
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2002, 04:17:42 pm »
If I can chime in on this one with my minimal expertise (and hopefully stray not too far off topic). I have tried both a TV with s-video from ATI card, and an arcade monitor with direct RGB feed from a Trident Blade 3D card and I do find the arcade monitor to be significantly better quality image than the s-video. I can actually read Windows small text clearly on the arcade monitor which I could never do on the TV.

In the end I replaced the Blade 3D with a GForce 3 Ti200 run through an Averkey 3 plus scan converter for the arcade monitor. Ugh ! (some might say). Well, I use the SCART RGB output from the scan converter straight to the cabinet which is ALOT different than using the svideo out from the converter. Yes, there is a slight decrease in quality compared to just using the -NTSC option or advmame, but I can now run Windows without problem and use all my normal PC games on the arcade mon.   I use the anti flicker filter on the converter when using Windows to avoid headaches, and then use no filter when running MAME or games. Given that my entire cabinet (29" mon + controllers + cab + converter) cost only $350, its a pretty good and cheap soln.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by 1026619200 »

tetsu96

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Re: Rewire TV?
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2002, 11:54:37 pm »
I'd say that the clarity of the tube itself should have more bearing on the image quality than the s-video / rgb input.  On BOTH of my arcade cabs using RGB (and used monitors w/o burn-in), the image is an inferior image as compared to my Trinitron TV using s-vid, and that's after tweaking and comparing just about all the relative settings.

You actually can redo a TV to be an arcade monitor - I read somplace a FAQ for replacing the chassis connected to the tube so instead of the TV channel circutry, you'd just have the RGB...  but I wouldn't get my panites in a bind if you had to use s-vid.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by 1026619200 »

ophtho

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Re: Rewire TV?
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2002, 08:38:39 pm »
Yeah, you are probably right on that one.  I have a pretty crappy TV to begin with, so it wouldn't take much for my arcade monitor to look better. Can't afford a Trinitron yet.  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by 1026619200 »