Author Topic: Laser Cue - IT LIVES (Read 20092 times)

ChadTower · « **on:** October 13, 2005, 08:19:40 pm »

Well, since the guy flaked on the MAME cab I was building him, that goes back burner for now.

Up next, Laser Cue.

I don't have any pics just yet, can't find the camera. I should have those up in the next couple of days. I picked this up for free, in pretty good shape, from a woman on Freecycle. It had been in their basement rec room for 15 years and nonworking for 13. The woman wanted it OUT, while the husband insisted it was worth a lot of $$ and wanted me to pay. They fought and she won. I got it free.

ChadTower · « **Reply #1 on:** October 13, 2005, 09:33:13 pm »

ChadTower · « **Reply #2 on:** October 13, 2005, 09:37:04 pm »

The yellow pin you see to the left is Rack Em Up, a pin I scored at a yard sale last year for $75. Pretty good shape, just needs refurb work to make it reliable again, and of course a shop job.

What you see here is a wire I noticed while reconnecting all the molexes. Must have been cut when the owner was taking off the head so I could move it.... nice of them to tell me. I'll put some quick disconnects on them and some tape numbering the connects so no one confuses them later on. The wires you're looking for are yellow and in the foreground.

ChadTower · « **Reply #3 on:** October 13, 2005, 10:37:53 pm »

Oh, forgot the backglass, I can get pics of that and what I need to do with it in the next couple of days.

arcadefever · « **Reply #4 on:** October 13, 2005, 10:42:22 pm »

you can fix pinball !!!! that nice , whaaaaaaaaaa never saw the inside before ,
it look really good !!!!!

Bones · « **Reply #5 on:** October 14, 2005, 04:52:30 am »

Quote from: arcadefever on October 13, 2005, 10:42:22 pm

whaaaaaaaaaa never saw the inside before ,

Yeah me either. There is much more electronics in there than I expected.

I can't believe you got it for free Chad, you might actually be a nice person in real life to have scored this one.

SirPeale · « **Reply #6 on:** October 14, 2005, 07:58:30 am »

Yeah, the insides of pins are pretty complex.

Been learning the fine art of pin repair at work. Fun stuff.

ChadTower · « **Reply #7 on:** October 14, 2005, 08:03:11 am »

Bah, I'm actually very amicable in person, though I had to stand there while that couple fought a hard one over my taking the pin.

The wife was going to win, it was always obvious.

This era pin, and early solid state, is actally not that complex. It's happy fun easy cake with simple frosting compared to the Twilight Zone I spent the summer on...

Bones · « **Reply #8 on:** October 14, 2005, 09:43:54 am »

I watched Twighlight Zone but never participated, I just wasn't all that interested in pinballs. Starting to think differently now though.....

Keep the pics flowing, this stuff is all new.

ChadTower · « **Reply #9 on:** October 14, 2005, 09:46:11 am »

I wonder if I should replace that giant cap in the wiring shot... that's gotta be wonky by now.

ChadTower · « **Reply #10 on:** October 14, 2005, 10:58:35 pm »

Cut the tips off those wires, stripped a bit of insulation for a clean end, put some insulated QDs on them, and put bits of tape labeling each end and its mate so there won't be confusion later.

Not sure why they are even there, maybe a hack repair job at some point. Don't see much sense in having to cut two wires to remove the head when there are tons of molexes with tons of wires in them to avoid that.

SirPeale · « **Reply #11 on:** October 14, 2005, 11:01:21 pm »

Quote from: ChadTower on October 14, 2005, 09:46:11 am

I wonder if I should replace that giant cap in the wiring shot... that's gotta be wonky by now.

Quite possibly not. Caps like that don't go that often.

And here's another piece of trivia: they don't make caps like they used to. Really. There are 30 year old caps that work better than brand new ones. That's where a cap tester comes in handy.

With older monitors. before I just aribitrarily replace every cap on a board I test them first. A lot of the time they're just fine.

ChadTower · « **Reply #12 on:** October 15, 2005, 01:21:26 pm »

So what is up with the Atari big blues? Just a bad choice of part?

ChadTower · « **Reply #13 on:** October 15, 2005, 01:59:02 pm »

Just spent an hour trying to figure out where the hell the power cord is supposed to come out of the cabinet, since mine was all inside. Finally found some other system 7 photos, apparently it goes through an obscure little notch between the head and the body. I had to remove the head to put it in there. Annoying.

In the process, though, I found one more power molex set that hadn't been connected. Glad I found that one.

ChadTower · « **Reply #14 on:** October 15, 2005, 04:48:21 pm »

Got this sucker powered up... very wonky behaviour. I was able to determine, though, in the process:

Speakers are working, got it to play a few sound effects.
GI works, if not properly, but the playfield GI and backgoard GI lit up.
Didn't get any response from any of the op buttons or anything in the coin door. Mechs are absent.
Wasn't able to coin it up or start a game, somehow got one flipper to attempt to flip but that was it

Tonight, I'll read through the schematics and check all the fuses. Want to make sure they are all the right type/rating and all have continuity.

SirPeale · « **Reply #15 on:** October 15, 2005, 06:32:12 pm »

Quote from: ChadTower on October 15, 2005, 01:21:26 pm

So what is up with the Atari big blues?

ChadTower · « **Reply #16 on:** October 15, 2005, 07:50:31 pm »

Big blue = Power supply filter cap in games like Centipede, Asteroids, etc... Atari cabs of that era.

So I checked the fuses on the sound board... all good, right ratings.

Power board: solenoid fuse = dead. Must replace, obviously a problem. HV fuse = wrong fuse.

The HV fuse lists on the schematic as a .25a SB. What is in there is a .5a SB. That seems like such a tiny difference, but it is a full 100% increase in rating. Is that acceptable, or should I swap in a correctly rated fuse? They're cheap.

SirPeale · « **Reply #17 on:** October 15, 2005, 09:20:27 pm »

You should always use the correct rated fuse. Their function, other than being a power conduit, is to protect the device from a massive power spike.

So...yeah. Doubling the amount of amps that your board will take can be *very* bad. It's rated @ .25A for a reason.

Now...if there's nothing wrong with the board, likely nothing will happen. The fuses are there for the trouble times. Since this is a pin in repair...DEFINITELY use the correct rated fuse.

Too bad you're not closer, I've got about thirty boxes of .25A SB @ the shop.

ChadTower · « **Reply #18 on:** October 15, 2005, 09:59:08 pm »

Heh, thanks for the offer, I'll just snag some at Radio Shack. I need a couple others too anyway. The flipper power board fuse turned out to also be the wrong fuse (7a rather than 4a as listed).

So, whoever used to work on this didn't put in the right fuses. Surprising, huh?

SirPeale · « **Reply #19 on:** October 16, 2005, 01:16:41 pm »

Quote from: ChadTower on October 15, 2005, 07:50:31 pm

Big blue = Power supply filter cap in games like Centipede, Asteroids, etc... Atari cabs of that era.

Ah, gotcha. Power supply caps go a lot. We use a lot of Peter Chou power supplies. The caps go all the time.

ClubNinja · « **Reply #20 on:** October 17, 2005, 09:27:35 am »

Quote from: ChadTower on October 14, 2005, 10:58:35 pm

Not sure why they are even there, maybe a hack repair job at some point.

ChadTower · « **Reply #21 on:** October 17, 2005, 01:12:52 pm »

Yeah, I've been going so far with general good electronic repair knowledge, rather than Marvin3m.

ChadTower · « **Reply #22 on:** October 18, 2005, 08:42:49 pm »

So, I went to dumbass Radio Shack tonight... they have two of the fuses I need, but of course no 0.25A SB.

Not sure where to get it without ordering, and who wants to ship that?

ChadTower · « **Reply #23 on:** October 18, 2005, 09:10:37 pm »

Crap. I replaced the Solenoid and flipper power supply fuses with the proper ratings... turned the machine on, and immediately saw smoke coming from the solenoid driver board. Turned it off FAST, looked at the solenoid fuse, and it's kind of melty.

I think I've uncovered a problem.

ChadTower · « **Reply #24 on:** October 18, 2005, 10:30:39 pm »

So... dumb. If you look here at section 2a, you will see a warning about making sure the physically matching, but different color, connectors are properly matched. Sure enough, I had them reversed, and the solenoid voltage to the +5v logic line.

---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. I wonder how many things I fried.

SirPeale · « **Reply #25 on:** October 19, 2005, 07:27:08 am »

Quote from: ChadTower on October 18, 2005, 10:30:39 pm

---Cleavland steamer---. I wonder how many things I fried.

Doing it so quickly, maybe nothing. Maybe a transistor or two.

ChadTower · « **Reply #26 on:** October 19, 2005, 08:05:07 am »

That is what I'm hoping, though since that fuse was burned before, now I wonder if I burned it the first time without knowing it. Maybe this is why the machine hasn't been booting properly. It IS 50v through the 5v line.

ClubNinja · « **Reply #27 on:** October 19, 2005, 09:32:42 am »

I cringe with pain.

If you let smoke out of that sucker then something's got to be damaged. Even quickly, I'd suspect a few cooked transistors. Still very fixable (and a cheap fix at that). I think you'll get out of it without too much trouble though.

ChadTower · « **Reply #28 on:** October 19, 2005, 09:36:06 am »

My fear is this:

50v though a 5v line can cook a lot of things in a hurry. I fear that the damage is not isolated to the driver board. I fear it may have shot to the audio board and the mpu as well.

I'm going to verify the power supply is good next, and from there, I'm not sure of the next best step to take.

I feel awfully stupid. Two pin projects, two times starting off with self inflicted damage.

ChadTower · « **Reply #29 on:** October 19, 2005, 01:49:34 pm »

An RGP post led to my being pointed to an old RGP post that had been reaped by Usenet but someone had on their hard drive (phew).

I'm going to paste it here since it is very much in context and applicable.

Now that I read through it better, looks like this info is paraphrased very closely in Marvin3m's guide. I'm putting it here anyway.

Quote

Subject:

ClubNinja · « **Reply #30 on:** October 19, 2005, 03:16:41 pm »

I saw that post, very informative.

As an unrelated request, be sure to peel that ugly op/vendor sticker off the apron next time you're working on that. There's one on Bobby Orr in the same place that's giving me heck in trying to remove it. It drives me nuts.

ChadTower · « **Reply #31 on:** October 19, 2005, 03:18:10 pm »

Heh, that is so low in priority now. I'm not even really bothering with the coils or playfield until I get this sucker working. With the TZ I shopped it and then wanted to get it working... this time, other way around, so I can actually play the damn thing once it is shopped.

ChadTower · « **Reply #32 on:** October 20, 2005, 09:05:11 am »

All of my research bears out the same conclusion:

I likely fried most of the ICs on the MPU and the driver board.

Original replacement boards are common, though, and there are newly designed drop in replacements as well. Getting a good set of either is going to run close to $300. I don't have that type of cash for a game project until spring, so this project will have to wait until then for real completion.

ChadTower · « **Reply #33 on:** October 20, 2005, 11:39:38 am »

OOOH... just got an offer from someone who wants to set up a nice test bench for doing system3-7 repairs. He's offering to repair my boards at cost of parts if I allow him enough time with my boards to get the test bench up and running. I'm not in a hurry with this, so I may well take him up on that.

ClubNinja · « **Reply #34 on:** October 20, 2005, 12:07:09 pm »

Take him up on that one if you don't plan to repair the boards yourself. Very nice offer.

ChadTower · « **Reply #35 on:** October 20, 2005, 12:39:22 pm »

One of the chips on the list above has like 7000 very close pins. I couldn't solder a socket in there if my life depended on it.

ChadTower · « **Reply #36 on:** October 20, 2005, 03:17:33 pm »

Quote from: ClubNinja on October 17, 2005, 09:27:35 am

ChadTower · « **Reply #37 on:** October 28, 2005, 10:02:42 am »

Not mine, but worth a peek.

ClubNinja · « **Reply #38 on:** October 28, 2005, 02:11:26 pm »

The NOS backglass certainly helps. That's a good looking game right there.

ChadTower · « **Reply #39 on:** October 28, 2005, 02:48:27 pm »

Better looking that mine, definitely. Mine has some playfield wear that may end up a candidate for my still theoretical printed vinyl/mylar playfield patch technique.

Plus, my backglass needs love.

ChadTower · « **Reply #40 on:** November 05, 2005, 05:44:21 pm »

Finally got the PCBs packed up and shipped out... hopefully, I'll have them back by the end of the year.

ChadTower · « **Reply #41 on:** November 07, 2005, 12:54:56 pm »

Just got word, the boards arrived safely at their destination.

ChadTower · « **Reply #42 on:** November 08, 2005, 08:35:35 pm »

Started cleaning out the coils but couldn't find my short coil sleeves... I'm going to have to order more when I get paid.

ChadTower · « **Reply #43 on:** November 14, 2005, 09:38:35 am »

Ordered more sleeves, plus some other misc pinball maintenance stuff.

Took all the stuff off of the lower half of the playfield, will clean it all and novus/turtle wax the playfield.

ChadTower · « **Reply #44 on:** November 15, 2005, 10:02:56 pm »

Did some cleaning/Novus 1 on some plastics, posts, etc that are off the playfield right now. Went to Novus 2 the playfield but my drill didn't have enough charge left to do a good job. It is charging now.

I really need to upgrade that sucker to a powered drill.

menace · « **Reply #45 on:** November 16, 2005, 06:42:26 am »

how was your drill configured for applying the novus? i thought about this when I did mine but thought it might be too much elbow grease so i just did it by hand. I'm assuming it worked well since there were no reported mishaps.

ChadTower · « **Reply #46 on:** November 16, 2005, 09:51:53 am »

And there is one other spongy attachment not pictured that I like to use.

ClubNinja · « **Reply #47 on:** November 16, 2005, 04:19:33 pm »

I have the same kit and the poofy black attachment is my favorite.

ChadTower · « **Reply #48 on:** November 16, 2005, 04:20:08 pm »

Oh man, don't hit a switch with that, though, or you end up with black poofy lint all over the place.

ChadTower · « **Reply #49 on:** November 17, 2005, 07:37:41 am »

Did a single run with Novus 2, but the drill ran out of juice again. This time left it charging overnight.

ChadTower · « **Reply #50 on:** November 17, 2005, 08:50:58 pm »

After a second run on lower half with Novus 2.

ChadTower · « **Reply #51 on:** November 17, 2005, 08:51:36 pm »

From the closeup, you can sort of see some of the dirt that seems to be embedded in the wood and paint. It may not come out, I'm going to send it off to some pin guys and see if I can get that out or if I'd just wipe away too much finish to try.

ChadTower · « **Reply #52 on:** November 18, 2005, 08:18:51 am »

Oooh, I'm told that there is a nice little product, available at any grocery store, that should be able to do the job very nicely. I'm going to snag some tonight and test it out.

ClubNinja · « **Reply #53 on:** November 18, 2005, 04:45:02 pm »

I am very curious to hear if that works well enough to be worth the extra effort. I've noticed that the Williams games in this era seem to be prone to this bonus dirt issue.

ChadTower · « **Reply #54 on:** November 18, 2005, 09:14:29 pm »

Specific results sent, but of course, you're welcome to drive over and view the results. I did selected areas of the playfield. I'll show you which I did and which I did not.

Tonight, used the Magic Eraser on some parts with some success. Some caveats, though, in that the pad may pull up small chips of paint. Not cool, so I stopped. This playfield may be a bit too far gone.

But the machine is part of the family now, so we will love it just the same. My son and I put another run of Novus 2 on the lower half and then a first coat of Turtle Wax. It will get 5 coats in total. If we want more when 5 are on we will put more, but the minimum and current plan is 5.

ChadTower · « **Reply #55 on:** November 19, 2005, 01:18:09 pm »

Learned a lesson today:

When applying a coat of wax to the playfield, don't leave it overnight. The next day the excess wax is much harder to get off.

ChadTower · « **Reply #56 on:** November 19, 2005, 02:16:48 pm »

Up to three coats of wax on the bottom half. It's starting to shine nicely.

ChadTower · « **Reply #57 on:** November 19, 2005, 02:34:05 pm »

Ordered new rubber kit, and since they wanted 5.35 to ship it, I ordered one for my next project too to save a couple bucks.

ChadTower · « **Reply #58 on:** November 19, 2005, 07:28:52 pm »

Fourth coat of wax.

ChadTower · « **Reply #59 on:** November 19, 2005, 10:33:40 pm »

Five.

ChadTower · « **Reply #60 on:** November 20, 2005, 12:46:59 pm »

Six. May as well get it to an even ten. Overkill, but this machine hasn't seen wax in 15 years.

EDIT: Seven.

ChadTower · « **Reply #61 on:** November 21, 2005, 06:59:09 pm »

Hrmph... just cleaning all of the parts, didn't realize until now there is a missing playfield plastic. Bah to that.

Not sure yet if I'll seek a replacement or make one.

EDIT: Huh. Just looked at ipdb, and either that one is missing this plastic too, or it just didn't have one there. Weird.

ChadTower · « **Reply #62 on:** November 22, 2005, 11:14:15 am »

Stopped at seven coats, didn't seem like it was adding anything anymore.

Put much of the center drain metalwork back in and some of the slingshot hardware minus rubbers. Rubbers are in the mail AFAIK.

ChadTower · « **Reply #63 on:** November 22, 2005, 06:53:26 pm »

MMM, coil sleeves came in today, I'm ready to replace those suckers.

ChadTower · « **Reply #64 on:** November 23, 2005, 09:57:49 am »

Changed the ball loader coil sleeve and put some more of the lower playfield stuff back on.

ChadTower · « **Reply #65 on:** November 25, 2005, 12:27:59 pm »

Two more coil sleeves, can't get a third... need a right angle screwdriver. Will be hard to find locally.

ChadTower · « **Reply #66 on:** November 25, 2005, 03:36:44 pm »

Okay, so I call the local hardware store, first guy is like "wtf is a right angle screwdriver". I describe it, he asks another guy who says it's called an "offset screwdriver" and they don't have them. So I go to homedepot.com to see if they have them. I see the picture of one, realize there is one sitting in my toolbox and I didn't know what it was until now.

So, I have one. Yay.

ChadTower · « **Reply #67 on:** November 26, 2005, 09:40:46 am »

Buh, the upper flipper coil seems to have melted the sleeve just enough that I can't get it out. I have to replace the coil (that's a sign of a dying coil anyway).

I wonder where I could get a 50v coil, though... not common.

ChadTower · « **Reply #68 on:** November 28, 2005, 05:58:11 pm »

Found a source for the coil, about $15 shipped, don't have the cash right now. Will put that one back and continue with the other stuff.

Once the new cat6 / rg6 run project I've started is complete, that is...

Rubber kits came in.

ChadTower · « **Reply #69 on:** November 30, 2005, 11:19:09 am »

Nyerf, make that about $20 shipped, they overcharge shipping. Definitely has to wait.

ChadTower · « **Reply #70 on:** December 01, 2005, 06:10:48 pm »

Found a place that would send it out $16 shipped, bit the bullet.

ChadTower · « **Reply #71 on:** December 05, 2005, 09:27:39 am »

Coil came in, that was fast. Haven't touched the machine while I worked on the wiring project for my house. That is 95% done now, should be able to get back to Laser Cue this week.

ClubNinja · « **Reply #72 on:** December 05, 2005, 09:50:57 am »

Quote from: ChadTower on December 05, 2005, 09:27:39 am

Coil came in, that was fast.

ChadTower · « **Reply #73 on:** December 05, 2005, 10:31:16 am »

Yeah, he said he'd ship out same day, apparently he did.

On a side note, I found an old envelope I'd pulled from the TZ but I guess not looked into. It has a couple of TZ extra slingshot plastics.

ChadTower · « **Reply #74 on:** December 07, 2005, 01:35:55 pm »

So, erm, I tried to swap that coil, but managed to burn myself and get nothing positive done.

ClubNinja · « **Reply #75 on:** December 08, 2005, 09:24:54 am »

Ouch. Did the coil survive?

ChadTower · « **Reply #76 on:** December 08, 2005, 10:15:44 am »

Oh, yeah, totally unaffected. The only things affected are my finger and the length of two wires that I now have to make jumpers to extend. Once it is done it will be fine.

For future reference, if you drop your soldering iron, don't catch it. It hurts.

ClubNinja · « **Reply #77 on:** December 08, 2005, 03:13:40 pm »

Quote from: ChadTower on December 08, 2005, 10:15:44 am

For future reference, if you drop your soldering iron, don't catch it.

ChadTower · « **Reply #78 on:** December 12, 2005, 02:26:44 pm »

Apparently Laser Cue is popular with the guys...

ClubNinja · « **Reply #79 on:** December 12, 2005, 03:09:22 pm »

I knew it! I knew it, I knew it, I knew it. That game is so lucky that it actually has worthwhile gameplay. Of course, both Alien Poker and Sorcerer are similar enough in the playfield to get you by, and without the sexy men.

Poor Laser Cue.

ChadTower · « **Reply #80 on:** December 12, 2005, 03:15:29 pm »

If I keep the sexy men then I will have an easier time later getting one with women on it... don't care about the women, really, but a lot of good ones have the women, like Xenon.

ClubNinja · « **Reply #81 on:** December 12, 2005, 04:08:30 pm »

Luckily, MsNinja prefers sexy women to sexy men, so the more pins featuring them, the better.

ChadTower · « **Reply #82 on:** December 12, 2005, 04:14:00 pm »

There are a lot of jokes in there somewhere.

ClubNinja · « **Reply #83 on:** December 13, 2005, 09:27:22 am »

Unfortunately, yes there are.

ChadTower · « **Reply #84 on:** December 31, 2005, 02:07:12 pm »

Haven't been able to work on this much over the holidays but I did get some soldering practice in... the boards are repaired, working, and ready to be sent back to me, so it will resume very shortly.

c64rulez · « **Reply #85 on:** January 02, 2006, 05:40:24 am »

mmmmm.....
It has finally occurred to me how do you get to be a zillion posts old around here

Good luck with your pin

ChadTower · « **Reply #86 on:** January 03, 2006, 09:58:11 am »

Yeah, I have a buttload of posts... but many of them are actually arcade based, so nyah.

ClubNinja · « **Reply #87 on:** January 03, 2006, 10:13:22 am »

Quote from: ChadTower on December 31, 2005, 02:07:12 pm

the boards are repaired, working, and ready to be sent back to me, so it will resume very shortly.

Hey - good news there. I'll have to motivate myself to repair the MPU for Bobby Orr someday (lots of damage on that sucker).

ChadTower · « **Reply #88 on:** January 03, 2006, 11:37:34 am »

Yeah, the repairs cost me $45 all told... incredible price, so I tossed in an extra $20 for some good beer for him.

ChadTower · « **Reply #89 on:** January 03, 2006, 09:00:27 pm »

Coil replaced... the two short wires extended with solder joins and electrical tape, all wires soldered onto coil tabs properly. All connections give DMM tone except one that I can't check because that wire seems to go off into a harness someplace.

That's my first coil swap, woo.

ChadTower · « **Reply #90 on:** January 06, 2006, 10:54:27 am »

One more coil sleeve last night. This leaves the flippers and the drop target bank. I think I'm going to leave the target bank coils alone for now, just cleaning the targets themselves. I want to get the top of the playfield finished off this weekend so the whole thing is ready to go when these boards come back in the next few days.

ChadTower · « **Reply #91 on:** January 06, 2006, 09:45:53 pm »

Erf... trying to get the rest of the major play coils done but am having some troubles... apparently the openings on these are smaller than usual and I don't have sleeves to match exactly.

Plus there is one coil here with two diodes rather than one and I'm not sure what to make of that. Need to figure that one out.

ChadTower · « **Reply #92 on:** January 07, 2006, 02:01:35 pm »

Picked up a few nice tips on how to deal with the aperture size/sleeve size issue, and some on how to get the sleeve out when it's stuck and the coil is sitll good. I'm going to try them out today.

ChadTower · « **Reply #93 on:** January 08, 2006, 11:45:09 am »

Tips are decent, though I'll hold off on detailing them until I see if the coils still work.

Boards arrived yesterday. Visually, they look awesome. Aside from the sockets and parts that are clearly new, I can't even tell the thing was hand soldered. He also installed a remote battery holder with QDs. Awesome, and it cost me about $80 total.

Did a few more coils, too. Left to do is one more play coil (slingshot) and then I put the playfield back down to strip, clean, and wax the top half the playfield. I also have to put the boards back in and test them. Not sure if after that I'll start pulling bulbs to clean/replace and clean lenses or just leave that for now and put the glass in.

The backglass still needs some serious love but I don't want to be spraying Triple Thick in my closed basement until the weather warms up some. It's too cold down here for it to work optimally.

ChadTower · « **Reply #94 on:** January 08, 2006, 08:20:46 pm »

Did the last main play coil, now to start plugging those boards back in and give it a test fire.

ChadTower · « **Reply #95 on:** January 08, 2006, 08:49:16 pm »

Just put the power board back in. I'm going upstairs to have a beer and watch the late playoff game.

ChadTower · « **Reply #96 on:** January 10, 2006, 09:12:32 am »

Flipper, audio, and display drivers back in.

Man I wish I had more than a half hour at a time to work on this.

ChadTower · « **Reply #97 on:** January 20, 2006, 08:25:18 pm »

Dude, rocking! I just got the final boards put back into place and fired this sucker up... IT LIVES! I was able to get into play mode, coin up, start a game, and the solenoids and switches I hit fired and registered points. I still have to finish the playfield, then when the weather warms up seal/restore the backglass... but IT LIVES!

And cool news, all of the displays are strong and bright.

c64rulez · « **Reply #98 on:** January 21, 2006, 12:42:13 am »

Great news (my pinball resumee is kinda null so that's all I can say

)

I wonder if bringing a machine back from the dead is more thrilling than creating one.

Show us some pics

ChadTower · « **Reply #99 on:** January 21, 2006, 09:29:54 am »

Yep, once it's done, pics will be plentiful.

ChadTower · « **Reply #100 on:** January 21, 2006, 07:45:53 pm »

Three regular flippers back in. They could probably stand a rebuild, but don't have the cash for the rebuild kit just now.

ClubNinja · « **Reply #101 on:** January 23, 2006, 09:19:25 am »

Sweet. I never thought I'd see those sexy space-warrior guys in action again!

ChadTower · « **Reply #102 on:** January 23, 2006, 11:52:16 am »

Well, it will be a while before I get to trying to work with the BG... have to wait until I can get a better temperature in the basement. So, when I get it fully done and in place, the oh tho thexy men won't be on display yet.

I have done some thinking about that, though... since a NOS bg is available for around $300 shipped... but I don't really want to spend that since the bg art is so thuper... maybe if I scanned the sucker, kept the title image, but came up with NEW art for the rest, I could have a better backglass/translite.

ClubNinja · « **Reply #103 on:** January 23, 2006, 01:16:39 pm »

Obviously, replace them with hot space warrior chicks.

ChadTower · « **Reply #104 on:** January 23, 2006, 01:46:21 pm »

Yeah, at least one of them anyway, so it's not ALL naked dudes.

Just wish I had any artistic tendencies.

ChadTower · « **Reply #105 on:** January 29, 2006, 04:54:31 pm »

I have the drop target assembly apart now... it's filthy. The targets are going to need new stickers. I'll get it cleaned and new sleeves in now, do the target stickers later.

ChadTower · « **Reply #106 on:** February 20, 2006, 10:12:53 am »

Stripped, polished, and 7 coat waxed the upper half of the playfield. Cleaned and polished about half the parts. Should be done soon. Pics have been taken but I haven't been able to post them yet.

ChadTower · « **Reply #107 on:** February 23, 2006, 06:36:28 pm »

A new backglass! Managed to find someone in NY parting out a Laser Cue. Didn't want him to do it, but since he was set on it, I bought his BG. Some nervous shipping and I have a very, very nice BG in possession with only a tiny bit of flaking in the bottom corners.

ChadTower · « **Reply #108 on:** February 23, 2006, 09:48:08 pm »

Polished, waxed, ready for stuff to be put back on...

ChadTower · « **Reply #109 on:** February 27, 2006, 08:59:39 am »

The rest of the playfield is back together. I removed the head and moved it to the other side of the basement. I picked up some sliding leg levelers and replaced two of them. I noticed I forgot about the legs and they have some surface rust. That will have to wait until I come back to the machine, probably in the fall.

ChadTower · « **Reply #110 on:** March 01, 2006, 09:04:09 am »

Got it into its spot and leveled... not sure the slope is perfect yet, though. I'm going to buy an angle meter (inclinometer) on the way home and slope it to 6 degrees. I think I'm going to put it at about 6 degrees. Those sliding leg levelers are decent. They will slide on the concrete but I would not recommend relying solely on them for much more than a small adjustment. It is still putting too much pressure on the legs when moved.

ClubNinja · « **Reply #111 on:** March 01, 2006, 09:56:26 am »

What about those rolling metal bowl-like things that you have - the ones that a pin leg can sit on? Have you tried rolling a game around with those?

ChadTower · « **Reply #112 on:** March 01, 2006, 09:59:12 am »

That's what I use to move it any distance. When you're only moving it a foot or two, though, or trying to shift it around for leveling, these things do make it a lot easier. They seem to have enough bite that the game won't slide unless you're really slamming it during play, too. I bought the batch mostly for vids, really, since those wheel bases that work so well for pins don't work nearly as well for cabs.

ChadTower · « **Reply #113 on:** March 02, 2006, 10:27:03 am »

Leveled width wise and sloped to 6 degrees using an inclinometer. Put the head back on. Took the shooter housing apart to clean and learned that there is a narrow plastic sleeve in there that badly needs replacing. I don't have any of those so I'll have to either submit an order for a $.60 part that weighs nothing ($5 shipping, joy) or find a local source. There is a local coin-op dealer here that I've never looked to for parts but I'm going to check there. I hear they have a World Poker Tour on the sales floor so I'll check that sucker out too. The stupid part is that their storefront hours are 8-4:30 m-f which means I have to get there at 8am sharp and then not spend much time unless I want to be late for work.

whammoed · « **Reply #114 on:** March 03, 2006, 10:03:32 am »

Keep up the good work Chad. I'm looking forward to a house with a little more room so I can get a pin. So your employer isn't very flexible with your schedule eh? Too bad, seems like a lot of IT type positions people are given some flexibility.

ChadTower · « **Reply #115 on:** March 03, 2006, 11:09:24 am »

I do have flexibility but try not to use it for stuff like going to buy a sixty cent pinball part... which is what I actually did this morning. Went over, picked up 5 shooter sleeves and a bottle of rubber cleaner.

Then played World Poker Tour, Nascar, and Elvis on freeplay for 20 minutes. I almost didn't leave. They had a brand new HOTD4 there that was breathtaking.

SirPeale · « **Reply #116 on:** March 03, 2006, 07:15:06 pm »

Quote from: ChadTower on March 03, 2006, 11:09:24 am

I do have flexibility but try not to use it for stuff like going to buy a sixty cent pinball part... which is what I actually did this morning. Went over, picked up 5 shooter sleeves and a bottle of rubber cleaner.

Yeah? Cool stuff, in'it?

You can do a heck of a lot more than clean rubber with it. Cool Guy uses it for tons of things.

ChadTower · « **Reply #117 on:** March 03, 2006, 08:56:27 pm »

That sleeve made no difference to the shooter. Apparently I need new springs. I hope NECO would carry those, that way I can go back and play WPT and Elvis for another half hour.

ChadTower · « **Reply #118 on:** March 03, 2006, 09:35:46 pm »

Okay... fired this sucker up to play. Absolutely needs all flippers rebuilt. They suck. GREAT snap, 50v snap, but they just need rebuilds. No way around that. Great news that it's fully functional, though.

ChadTower · « **Reply #119 on:** March 03, 2006, 09:53:44 pm »

Yeah, electrically, all looks great. Didn't see any issues. Mechanically... need to rebuild flippers, tweak drop targets, some bulbs are out.

Gotta say I LOVE the POP that the 50v Sys7 gives the playfield. Holy crap that rocks.

SirPeale · « **Reply #120 on:** March 04, 2006, 07:57:20 am »

Quote from: ChadTower on March 03, 2006, 08:56:27 pm

That sleeve made no difference to the shooter. Apparently I need new springs. I hope NECO would carry those, that way I can go back and play WPT and Elvis for another half hour.

NECO carries everything.

And you absolutely need that new sleeve if the old one was broken.

ChadTower · « **Reply #121 on:** March 04, 2006, 12:41:11 pm »

Well, since the action is exactly the same with the new/old sleeve, the problem must be the spring. The spring LOOKS good but must be played out. The new sleeve won't stay in the hole either, comes right out with the shooter rod, and then takes a few seconds to slip back in as the spring fights back.

Would "everything" include flipper rebuild kits for a Sys7?

Also, now that I've played a few games on it, the bumper switch things... don't know the real term, but it's the flat disc the ball hits to activate the switch... they're broken. They work just fine but have chunks broken off. I was going to leave them and fix them later but now they're bugging the crap out of me. What's the term for those?

ChadTower · « **Reply #122 on:** March 05, 2006, 12:43:34 pm »

My kids are putting a playtest hurting on this thing. The main flippers need tightening but probably not rebuilds ASAP as I first thought. The mini flipper is useless, but I suspected that. One pop bumper isn't firing and some lamps are out.

EDIT: My computer is right next to the machine, so I'm using this to take notes while I watch my kids playtest.

Credit knocker is really weak. Probably needs sleeve change/clean, can't remember doing it.

The flippers just stopped responding at all. ---fudgesicle---.

ChadTower · « **Reply #123 on:** March 05, 2006, 01:21:25 pm »

Solenoid test fires everything except the flippers, even the pop bumper that wasn't working during play. That bumper's switch must need adjusting.

Switch testing showed issues with 33, 34, 36, 37.

ChadTower · « **Reply #124 on:** March 05, 2006, 01:32:52 pm »

Just pulled the flipper board fuse... toast. Dammit.

EDIT: I wonder if that has anything to do with the crappy miniflipper keeping the switch closed... or maybe the maladjusted third main flipper which kept getting out of alignment because it's not clamped in tight enough.

ChadTower · « **Reply #125 on:** March 06, 2006, 10:29:47 am »

Okay, some more research at Marvin3m, a couple RGP threads, and BPA have led me to believe the problem really is that one of the two wonky flippers caused this.

Here is an email I just sent to BPA on my working out process of the concept. Maybe someone here will read this later and learn from it.

Quote

Anyone know what the treshhold is, in general, for a pin of that era to have a flipper stuck up before the fuse blows? 30 seconds? 5 minutes?

Now, if I'm understanding correctly, what is happening there is the flipper is up but the EOS switch (the normally closed one that says "hey stop using 50v and start using enough to keep the flipper up but not melting"), does not get opened so the high voltage pops the slow burn fuse to prevent the driver transistor from popping?

IIUC, that would be the reason for the dual wind coil, so that the flippers can be held active but not at full motion (here 50-70v) voltage the whole time... and the reason for parallel wind being an improvement over series wind is what, heat?

Also, IIUC, the reason the EOS switch is NC is so that it can open the logic line that was closed by the flipper button switch, taking away the activation voltage from the transistor, opening the 50v from the coil... no wait, I'm missing something there, because the EOS switch has to do that AND somehow activate flipper low voltage too...

I'm getting close to the full understanding, I can feel it.

ChadTower · « **Reply #126 on:** March 06, 2006, 03:22:34 pm »

Hrm... studying Marvin3m's guide, I'm wondering if I wired in the replacement flipper coil correctly... I'm going to have to check into that when I get home.

SirPeale · « **Reply #127 on:** March 06, 2006, 08:00:29 pm »

Let me get this straight...the coil is always energized, and you've been *leaving* it like that?

Sounds like a bad driver, but yeah, check your coil wiring.

ChadTower · « **Reply #128 on:** March 07, 2006, 10:28:49 am »

No, wasn't energized, was working and responding to flipper button appropriately. I could just be remembering wrong and I really did wire it in there properly. I'll take a look when I get a couple spare hours.

ChadTower · « **Reply #129 on:** March 07, 2006, 10:38:23 am »

Oh, hey, just read back through the thread here... I AM remembering it wrong. The left flipper coil is the one I had to solder because the solder was cold and cracked, not because I replaced the coil. The miniflipper coil is the one I replaced, IIRC. Oops. I spent too much time thinking about this pin while at work, I guess.

ChadTower · « **Reply #130 on:** March 09, 2006, 01:43:36 pm »

Picked up a pair of flipper rebuild kits at Betson yesterday, so I'm good to go once I find some time.

CheffoJeffo · « **Reply #131 on:** March 09, 2006, 02:44:28 pm »

CWT -- in case you think you are just talking to yourself, I am following this thread and appreciate the posts (I still have a ways to go to get up to speed on pins).

Cheers.

ChadTower · « **Reply #132 on:** March 09, 2006, 02:48:56 pm »

Heh, thanks, I appreciate the note. I know people do read these even if it does appear at times that no one is listening. I use this as much for my own project log as I do to keep people reading.

ChadTower · « **Reply #133 on:** March 09, 2006, 02:50:14 pm »

BTW, this is the rebuild kit... all parts to rebuild one left/right pair of flippers and Laser Cue has four, so I bought two kits.

ChadTower · « **Reply #134 on:** March 09, 2006, 02:56:53 pm »

Detailed instructions on swapping out a series wound (older) coil with a parallel wound (newer) coil, as I attempted, and quite likely did incorrectly.

This should be more than enough for me to pop in there and get it right.

ChadTower · « **Reply #135 on:** March 12, 2006, 09:15:22 pm »

Looking at these flippers I was remember the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- all wrong... the new coil I put in is series wound... the parallel coil is one that was already in there but had a broken solder joint on one of the lugs. This is one of the pins that Williams put all the coils with the lugs at the coil stop end, which is dumbass, but the wires aren't long enough to just flip them without a major hassle... so it's prone to solder joint breakage on the coil lugs.

I just finished rebuilding the mini flipper, which is my first flipper rebuild. Took a while but I wanted to get it right and soldering, while better for me, is still slow. Plus I still always triple check my work with the multimeter.

Haven't tested it yet, but at this point, I think all of the coils are installed properly but the EOS switches are so pitted and crappy that short of a full flipper rebuild on all flippers, the flipper fuse was going to keep blowing.

ChadTower · « **Reply #136 on:** March 12, 2006, 09:19:09 pm »

Okay, haven't powered the thing up yet, but it looks good. New coil stop, new steel tungsten EOS switch (shiny), new spring, new plunger mechanism. Gets very solid action manually. I'll probably fire the pin up tomorrow to see if it's better with a new fuse. That reminds me, need to stop at Radio Snack and get new 5A fuses.

nostrebor · « **Reply #137 on:** March 12, 2006, 09:25:03 pm »

I also want to let you know that I am listening. I'm soon to have my first pins, and cannot seem to get enough tech info about them

ChadTower · « **Reply #138 on:** March 12, 2006, 10:25:34 pm »

Sweet. Any idea which ones yet?

ClubNinja · « **Reply #139 on:** March 13, 2006, 10:09:39 am »

Pins plural - never a good sign.

nostrebor · « **Reply #140 on:** March 13, 2006, 10:11:08 am »

Class of 1812 and Jurrasic Park. I will be going to get them in a few weeks, after we get moved into our house. Probably will sell one, but not for a while

nostrebor · « **Reply #141 on:** March 13, 2006, 10:12:21 am »

Quote from: ClubNinja on March 13, 2006, 10:09:39 am

Pins plural - never a good sign.

Marriage is overrated anyway

ChadTower · « **Reply #142 on:** March 13, 2006, 10:59:03 am »

Quote from: nostrebor on March 13, 2006, 10:11:08 am

Class of 1812 and Jurrasic Park. I will be going to get them in a few weeks, after we get moved into our house. Probably will sell one, but not for a while

Oh yeah... I knew that. Duh.

PetitMorte · « **Reply #143 on:** March 14, 2006, 10:57:32 am »

Quote from: nostrebor on March 13, 2006, 10:12:21 am

Marriage is overrated anyway

Especially with pins!

ChadTower · « **Reply #144 on:** March 14, 2006, 09:09:49 pm »

Just finished rebuilding the left flipper. Dumbass me made two mistakes. First, I forgot I was going to put a cap on the EOS switch since this was a parallel coil, so when I soldered the connections to the new EOS switch I forgot to solder in the cap too. That's okay, I guess, because I don't have a ready way to drill a hole in the switch holder plate, and it is that third hole that a zip tie goes through holding that cap in place. So I guess I wasn't going to anyway.

Then, AFTER I got the bat aligned and tightened and went to adjust the EOS switch to the armature, I noticed I had a right flipper armature in there. I had to take the whole thing apart and put a proper one in there. Oh well. At least it gets good STRONG manual action now. Still haven't put a new fuse in and tested those suckers out.

ChadTower · « **Reply #145 on:** March 14, 2006, 09:18:05 pm »

Just powered it up and went for a spin... didn't make it through the first ball before the fuse blew. In fact I only flipped the left flippers twice.

ChadTower · « **Reply #146 on:** March 25, 2006, 06:14:27 pm »

Just finished rebuilding the two right flippers... new flipper armatures, EOS switches, and coil stops. Just have to put the bats back in and adjust the switches.

After that, need to clean up/file the flipper button switches, then test all of the coils and their diodes for proper resistance and such.

ChadTower · « **Reply #147 on:** March 27, 2006, 11:11:22 am »

Okay, am trying to read up on how to check coil resistance... haven't done that yet. I see this at marvin3m:

Quote

In order to check coil resistance, put your DMM on its lowest resistance setting. Then put the DMM's red and black leads on each coil's lugs. A resistance of 2.5 ohms or greater should be seen.

I'm not quite sure how it means to do that. There are three lugs on the coils. There are two leads on the DMM... so which to which, still need to figure this out.

PetitMorte · « **Reply #148 on:** March 27, 2006, 12:46:14 pm »

Keep in mind that each flipper "coil" is really 2 different coils wound together. You've got the massive, BAM coil with it's thick wire, and fewer wrappings, and the smaller "Hold the flipper in the up position" coil that keeps the BAM coil from burning out.

If you look at the three lugs, you should see the different wires, thick and thin connecting to them. On mine, both wires are connected to the middle lug, and one thick and one thin on the sides. To test the resistence of the 2 coils, just match up each pair of wires. In my case, keep one probe on the middle lug, test the left for one coil, and the right for another.

Since you've got the cool Uber-snap 50-volt flippers, according to Marvin3m, you should look for around 125 ohms for the thin "hold" coil, and about 4 ohms for the thicker BAM coil.

ChadTower · « **Reply #149 on:** March 27, 2006, 01:28:27 pm »

High and low voltage sides... makes sense. Thanks.

PetitMorte · « **Reply #150 on:** March 27, 2006, 02:03:56 pm »

Well, as far as I can tell, it's the same voltage. It's just that one coil has a LOT less resistance than the other one.

<science>
With the bam coil, it's thick wire, and less turns, which gives the current lots of room to flow through, so you get a bigger kick from the flipper. The smaller coil uses a thinner wire, with lots more windings (the wire itself is much longer) and that gives it a higher resistance. Higher resistance gives you much less kick, so it's just used to hold the flipper up.

Here's the analogy that my old physics prof used... it's not perfect, but it gets the picture across. Say you've got a tank of water lifted off the ground, and two pipes coming from it. 50 volts is how high the water is lifted, so that's your water pressure. One of the pipes is the low-resistance coil. The pipe is 10 feet long, and a foot wide. When you crack the valve, you get a LOT of water flowing, really fast. Fwoosh!
The second pipe is the hold it coil, and has a high resistence. It's a 1/4 inch pipe, that's 500 feet long. crack that valve, and you don't get nearly as much water as fast. That's because the smaller pipe and longer distance resists the flow of the water.
</science>

That's what happens when a coil gets suck and blows. Current runs thru the stuck coil, and heats it up until the wire coating melts. So the wire shorts out, making the path the currenmt has to travel smaller, reducing the coil's resistance. The reduced resistance allows MORE current thru, which heats it up more, which melts more and shorts more, further reducing the resistance until the coil has little if any resistance. With the same water analogy, picture a trickle of water coming thru a dirt dam. Eventually you get a torrent rushing thru a big hole. And since there's *way* too much current running *way* too fast thru the system, it blows the coil fuse. You can "simulate" that effect by using your test leads to ground the common power lug (the banded side of the diode) on the flipper to the side-rail. POW, there goes the fuse.

If your flipper coils' resistance checks OK, you may want to look for something grounding them out where they shouldn't be.

Sorry for being long-winded. I'm at work, and bored.

ChadTower · « **Reply #151 on:** March 27, 2006, 02:10:17 pm »

Good explanation... all caused by my using the slang terms rather than saying "high / low resistance side".

Thanks, though... good stuff to have around.


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