Tweak Modes and Windows MAME

[Wade]

I'm really starting to regret my decision to try Windows and MAME.

My DOS setup worked flawlessly.  I games displayed full screen and looked awesome, performance was perfect, my only complaint was the frontent (Game Launcher) lacked some features I wanted.

Well, now I can't get most of the games to display correctly using 0.69 for Windows.  Horizontal games are okay (well, most of them are... MK, SFII, Smash TV don't work, they are far too small), and vertical games are so big that you can't see the bottom 1/5 of the screen.

Are tweak modes only available in DOS Mame?

Will someone with a lot of experience with this please help out?

I am using a custom 0.69 build (to remove all init screens and OK messages), and a D9200.  I'm not trying to run 15khz modes, VGA is fine for me.  I just want the games to fit properly on the screen.  I'm using Windows 2000.

Is there a way to use 0.69 for DOS in Windows 2000?

Wade

[Minwah]

If you are using 'resolution auto' then you might want to forget that and try some specific modes.  640x480 would be a good place to start.  If you turn hardware stretch (hwstretch) on, all games should fit on the screen.

You might need to adjust your screen too.

I hate to say it but why Win2k?  Aside from ME it is about the worst version of Windows going.

[Wade]

I am using res auto, but I had to manually make an INI file for most of the vertical games with resolution 320x240, which is the only mode I could get a screen on which was even close to correct (it is the one where the bottom 1/5 is cut off).

I tried hwstretch, but then the framerate drops to an incredibly LOW level, unplayable.  The card is an ATI RAGE II or something like that.

I never knew Win2K was bad.  It is what I use on another home machine, and what we have used as our standard OS at my company for the past 5 years.  Seemed fine to me.  Some of us are using XP as a pilot environment.  To answer your question, I tried to use Win98 but I had problems with Atomic with it, so I switched to Win2k because it was newer and I don't have a copy of XP.

I'm about "this" close to switching back to DOS.  All the games looked awesome, and performed well.  Even Golden Tee worked perfectly, it won't run without stuttering in Win2K, plus I have to upgrade my RAM to even get it to run at all.  I'm pretty frustrated, especially after spending a lot of time getting AtomicFE set up just the way I wanted it.

Wade

[youki]

Hi Wade,

There is no reason you couldn't have the same result than mamedos under mame windows.

As said Minwah , you could say to mame to no try to find the "best" resolution, and force it to 640x480 or even you can try 320x240h(it is enoug for old game).

Try to lauch the game with this command line like :

[youki]

oups.. i answered in the same time. sorry.

Did you try to simply run MAME DOS on your win2k?  it doesn't work? 

I will try when i have one minute, to see if there a solution.

[Minwah]

Maybe I had a freak experience, but we used to have 2k at work and blue screen of death's were not uncommon - that was enough for me.  Drivers often seem bad compatibility wise also...they have probably improved now.

Not sure why hwstretch causes such problems, I would think your video card is OK.

I feel your pain, but I must admit I found the transition from DOS to Windows actually improved performance.

BTW when you use 320x240 for vertical games, does it truly set that mode?  Does your card output at 15khz, or is it just 640x480 'doubled'?

[Wade]

Youki,

   No, Mame for DOS doesn't run for me in Win2K.  If it is possible, I will try it instead, but it gave me an error message and I just figured it was not the best way to go.  I can't remember offhand what the error message was, I will check and let you know.

Minwah,

   Honestly, I can't tell my actual resolution, but I am pretty sureit is doubling it to 640x480.  When I use the 15khz mode from DOS, the monitor whines a little, so I don't think that is the mode being used.  But for some reason, when this 320x240 (probably doubled) mode is used, I can't use the adjustments menu on my D9200.  It will just flash the menu and then disappear.  It makes me think the current mode being used might be one that my version of D9200 isn't suppose to be using.

Wade

[Howard_Casto]

First off, running dos mame in a windows environment is the stupidest thing you could possibly do.  If anything it'll slow your performance so bad that there's no point in running 2k.  Besides, unless your fe supports those same tweaked modes, while in windows, you are still going to run into problems.  The best solution is to get your hardware happy with windows, not the other way around. 

Secondly minwah is right, 2k sucks for gaming.  It's almost as stable as xp, but please note I said almost.  Also there's no hw accel to the desktop and directx doesn't play nice with it, so you'll see performance problems from that. 

Lastly, until you figure out what resolution your monitor/video card combo can handle, nobody is gonna be able to help you.  do some research and figure out what is what.  then you need to first try a forced resolution in mame as minwah suggested.  If you want to get fancier after that, you'll have to deal with manually setting resolutions for each game, which is a real pain in the butt. 

[Wade]

Thanks for nothing Howard.

I didn't realize running DOS mame in Windows would be so horrible.  After all, DOS mame supports dozens of tweak modes, which apparently the Windows version doesn't. Why not?  DOS mame and the tweak modes worked perfectly with my monitor AND video card.

What do you mean there is no hardware acceleration to the deskop?

If DirectX and Win2K don't work well together, that could be part of my problem.

If I knew everything my monitor and video card could do, I probably wouldn't be in here asking questions.  It seems to me that now with W2K, my video card can't do much of anything.  The monitor is a D9200, I don't know exactly what specs you need to know about it, but it is a common monitor and well documented.

Why is there so much praise for the Windows environment and MAME?  I have avoided it for a long time because I knew there would be lots of problems, but there are obviously a heck of a lot more than I expected.  I've gone through 2 Windows versions so far, and now I'm being told a lot of my problems would be fixed if I switched yet again.  It's pretty clear that Windows is a great choice for a desktop PC but a sh!t choice for a nice dedicated MAME setup.

Wade

[Howard_Casto]

Thanks for nothing Howard.

I don't appreciate the attitude.  Unlike others, I just gave it to you straight.



And windows is a breeze.  You just either use a tv or pc monitor or buy an arcadevga card and all is well.  Windows doesn't support oddball vesa mode hacks like dos does to force a lower sync rate, that's all.  Powerstrip can help, but it's a roulette shot as to if it'll work on your particular card. 

You should really know what your video card and monitor can do.  This is basic stuff, it's in the manuals for both.  Don't have a manual?  Download it off the net. 

A d9200 isn't even a real arcade monitor if I remember correctly, it's a hybrid.  That means it'll run 640x480.  That means you shouldn't be using tweaked modes anyway, rather you should have mame force the res to 640x480.and be done with it.  But that wasn't what you asked, you asked about using tweaked modes in windows, which you really can't do. 

[Wade]

I don't appreciate the attitude.

[Popcorrin]

The hardware stretch with your Rage II is going to suck.  I think if you get a little bit newer card it will solve your problems.  Try a Radeon 7500 or 8500, I have used both of those and have been very satisfied.  Also in my personal experience I have used both W2K and XP, and have not noticed any performance hit from using W2K.  Actually I have been happier with W2K, it's much less bloated.  The only complaint I have is that it doesn't boot nearly as fast as XP.

Also in your mame.ini you might want to specify the resolution and refresh rate you want to run if you already haven't.  I would set the refresh to 60 to avoid the computer sending a refresh rate your monitor can not support.

[Wade]

Will the hardware stretch on those Radeon cards look better or just perform better?

Also, thanks for the tip on the refresh, I didn't even know about that option.

Thanks,
Wade

[Popcorrin]

It should look noticably better but more importantly it should perform much better.

[Wade]

Okay, I got this straight, finally.

I forced mame.ini with res 800x600.  This made the vertical games perfect.  Then my horizontal games were all too small.  Manually making INI's for those games, at 640x480, did the trick.

I am going to switch the video cards around again and see if my original problems come back or not.

Thanks to all who helped,
Wade

[Boz]

Wade I just have a quick question here. If your DOS setup worked flawlessly, why did you feel the need to "fix" it with Windows? If it's for love of the game (i.e. the hobby) that's one thing. But if it's for love of the *games*, it would seem like there was really nothing for you to gain by downgrading to Windows.

Just curious.

-In2

[Wade]

Well, I did keep my DOS setup intact so I could easily reverse the changes.

I have been hesitant to switch to Windows for many reasons.  The reason I finally did it was mostly because of the selection of Front Ends for Windows.

I love the games, but honestly I don't play them that much.  I have never been entirely happy with my MAME setup, because of the compromises which must be made with the controls, the lack of instructions, the difficulty with use.  These are magnified when others are over and trying to use it (I know how to use it, so the problems are easy for me to work around).  I felt that a nicer Front End would be one step towards making the setup nicer and easier to use.  I think an LED controller for the CP would help, and a HELP button (CPmaker/Johnny5/Buddhamame) would also be nice, but I'm not ready to tackle either of those yet.  And no matter what, there will always be the 4-way/8-way joystick issue.

The bottom line is, I have never been entirely happy with my MAME setup, so I'm always looking for ways to improve it.  I've considered converting it to a Golden Tee 2005, and making a classic 4-way/1-button MAME setup instead.

Wade