Important Discovery... Everyone Read!

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah I'm going to personally beat the tar out of whoever did that. 

Come on people, use your head....  I found a bug.  Mame-devs lurk at mameworld.  What do you think they do to bugs?

sheesh

[Haze]

Mamedev lurk here too, and believe me this isn't the only place its been posted.  You expect people to keep this a secret?  It spread faster than a 2005 NeoGeo driver.

Its a bug, it will be fixed, we have enough problems with people reporting false bugs without the warning screens being taken away, people turning them off only makes matters worse.

[btoddkelley]

I understand the the dev's reasoning for taking it out but it sure would be nice to have a command line switch that bypasses the screens for cab use. Maybe we need a "BYAOC" mame build.

Todd

[Howard_Casto]

Mamedev lurk here too, and believe me this isn't the only place its been posted.

[Howard_Casto]

I hate to keep ranting on... but something you said keeps eating at me. 

"You expect people to keep this a secret?  It spread faster than a 2005 NeoGeo driver."


You'll excuse me for taking offense to this, but where do you get off making such a comparison?  A 2k5 neogeo driver hurts the arcade industry.  That is something I wouldn't support.  The bug simply fixes a lack of functionaly in mame in which you mamedevs won't accept any submissions for. 

Again let me inject some common sense into some of these rather stupid mamedev arguments that have surfaced since I found this. 

The warning screens do nothing to prevent paying mame cabs.  Why?  Quite simple, the games with warning screens don't work properly.  They would never be put in that environment anyway. 


I can live with the fact that you feel that the warning screens are needed for debugging purposes (they aren't but still) but to suggest that removing them promotes piracy, or even worse  the ability for people to put mame cabs in a paying environment?  I'm sorry, that's just crap.    I mean you can already turn off the disclaimer screen and info screen, those are the one's that helped to prevent piracy. 

The withholding of a method to remove these screens, especially the bad dump message is just another example of the mamedev's being stubborn.. similar to the old "no gambling machines" rule which has finally been lifted.

Also need I remind you that for years, many mame devs said that ALL screens were necessary and removing them would be the end of the world. Well the inital screens have been gone for about a year now.  So far the sky is still in place,  no looting in the streets.  Oh and to be relevant, there isn't a rampant uprising of mame cabs in pay environments, arcade manufacturers haven't tried to sue the pants off of  mame and all in all, absoluely nothing has changed rather than the fact that now the user and the developer, has more control over mame. 


I'm all about being cautious about such situations, but come on, in this case it's just a hollow excuse.

[Haze]

we've already decided long ago that we won't allow these warnings to be turned off.  TBH i wouldn't allow any of them to be turned off myself.

Spreads faster than the 2k5 neogeo drivers?  Well, it seemed to be the same people spreading this news, the same people bragging to me about how we messed up.. The comment was about the speed it spread, not the nature of the change.

We've had first hand experience that the screens do irritate people wanting to put the games in for profit cabs, we've had emails in the past asking us specifically how they can turn them off so they can run their cab in an arcade, people really are stupid enough to ask us.  If it takes money they don't care if the game has bad gfx, they care about ripping people off, while spending as little of their own time/money as they can.  I've seen MAME cabs with all the mahjong games and robotron still enabled, but nothing more than a joystick and 6 buttons + start for the controls.  Unplayable, but do they care? No.   (Also why we don't like people creating builds which strp out mahjong games, non working games etc. it just makes it easier for them)

[Haze]

oh, and the bad dump, bad crc etc. messages are on the command line because we usually copy+paste them when writing drivers.  We can't copy+paste from the UI and I've said before that we will not compromise developer features for user convenience.

[Howard_Casto]

oh, and the bad dump, bad crc etc. messages are on the command line because we usually copy+paste them when writing drivers.

[Dav]

This isn't a matter of user convienance, rather useability period.  Like I said... bad dump games lock up a front-end.  I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone other than a developer that regularly use mame straight from the command line. 

Strange, I've been using mame32 for 6 years and never noticed a problem, are you sure it's unuseable?

[SirPeale]

This isn't a matter of user convienance, rather useability period.  Like I said... bad dump games lock up a front-end.  I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone other than a developer that regularly use mame straight from the command line. 

Strange, I've been using mame32 for 6 years and never noticed a problem, are you sure it's unuseable?

It's not a problem with Mame32.  Just command line Mame.

[Minwah]

That's fine if you don't want to take it off the dos box.... but I thought it'd be better for YOU as the user would actually see the message you bothered to put in.

Have to agree with this.  Obviously I'm biased but it would make more sense to me to get the bad dump warning in the UI if only to make it more obvious to the casual user.

[youki]

This isn't a matter of user convienance, rather useability period.  Like I said... bad dump games lock up a front-end.  I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone other than a developer that regularly use mame straight from the command line.

It is not so hard to bypass from an Front End. I don't why this thing is so problematic for you?    I never think about that before you talk of this problem, but i'm going to implement this feature (allow possibility to not lock up the FE in case of bad dump) in my new version of AtomicFE.

[Tiger-Heli]

Okay, this "Exploit" will be removed shortly, probably by 0.100, if not in the next u build.  I posted some comments in the Mameworld thread, but I have some stuff to add here, too.

Fine it's a bug... so give us the option to turn them off officially.

It's not a bug, it's an EXPLOIT.  You can't take something that was officially announced in the whatsnew.txt and call it a bug.

As far as the for-profit cab arguments and the MAMETESTERS arguments - I think I'll just say that you can't make anything fool-proof b/c the world keeps coming up with smarter fools and leave it at that.

[wolfi]

It's not a bug, it's an EXPLOIT.

[Tiger-Heli]

No, its a bug. "-ftr 1" was meant to run 1 frame, but it runs endless. that

[Lilwolf]

The real trouble (imho) is only the screens that don't have a screen....

No known dump exists or whatever.

These are the ones that come up before the driver has formatted the screen... So it happens before the window itself come up.

Give a way to either postpone these to do a normal O-K or left/right and then all would be fine.

Also, it would be nice if there was a mouse only mechanism to get past it.  I have 2 control panels without a left and a right button.  Annoying having to swap control panels just to get past the screens.

Or...

I can just start compiling my own again...  Not really that big a deal really...

[Minwah]

Also, it would be nice if there was a mouse only mechanism to get past it.  I have 2 control panels without a left and a right button.  Annoying having to swap control panels just to get past the screens.

You must have *some* buttons tho?  Just map multiple inputs for UI_Left and UI_Right.  For example on my 360deg wheel panel I have the shifter 1st & 3rd gear inputs setup for this.

[Minwah]

Who said MAMEdev don't listen to us?:

Removed the "Press any key" prompts when displaying ROM warnings. Instead,
a warning about bad/missing ROMs is now displayed on the warnings screen.
Details of the bad/missing ROMs are still printed to the console.
[Aaron Giles]

 

(thanks to Zebulon for the heads up on this one)

Edit: sorry, didn't see the other thread.  Here's the link also:

http://mamedev.com/updates/whatsnew_099u3.txt

[Tiger-Heli]

I bet the -ftr 1 doesn't work anymore, though.

[Minwah]

I bet the -ftr 1 doesn't work anymore, though.

Probably not, but the bad dump thing was the biggest annoyance.  We can't expect everything now can we!

[Tiger-Heli]

Probably not, but the bad dump thing was the biggest annoyance.  We can't expect everything now can we!

But we can hope!

[Buddabing]

I bet the -ftr 1 doesn't work anymore, though.

It doesn't.