Is Ebay really changing PayPal rules?

[unclet]

Seems like Ebay is indicating that sellers who use PayPal must allow credit card payments through PayPal.

[mmmPeanutButter]

That would make me not want to use PayPal.

Sounds like you're reading it right.

[AlanS17]

I personally don't mind. I don't sell much on Ebay, but I do plenty of buying. This will make it easier for me. If a seller can't accept the new terms then they shouldn't offer PayPal as a payment method. However, they should expect to get fewer bids and lower bids on their items. PayPal is one of the major conveniences of Ebay. I don't really even bid on auctions anymore if they don't offer PayPal. I've been burned when I didn't use it.

It doesn't seem unreasonable to me. If you're using someone else's services for collecting money, it's not unreasonable to expect to be charged for it. Ebay owns PayPal and they're out to make a profit. You can't blame them for that.

One thing the letter DOESN'T mention is whether a seller can charge more for particular payment methods or not. It only states that he/she must accept all forms. So maybe if a seller is so worried about their 50 cents getting taken away on a particular auction they can charge that extra little bit against the bidder. Of course, if I saw that I might avoid the item out of principle. I don't like dealing with cheapskates. They cut too many corners.

[armax]

Well take into account that the seller might actually feel that too many fees may not be worth selling the item.  We're not talking all profit here.  If I understand ebay correctly, you supposedly can't charge the buyer a "paypal fee".  I sense that at this rate, more and more sellers will not use paypal. 

[unclet]

Problem is, that as a seller, you need to pay Ebay a listing fee.

[AlanS17]

Oh, you're gonna like this...

I'm pretty sure that once you become a Premier PayPal user, you get charged for ALL incoming payments (including non-credit card payments).

[Havok]

I just sold a couple of items though eBay, and one of the paypal paid items did not go through - it turns out they used a credit card against their paypal account, not actually transferring funds.

They didn't force me to "upgrade" to a premier account, but that was the only way I could complete processing the payment. I would say that whenever you put an item on eBay, be aware of the fees and just markup appropriately.

Once the item is listed, you will at least get what you wanted, and allow a larger base of potential buyers.

If the fees get out of hand, which I suspect may happen, since eBay thinks they are the internet auction overlord, maybe more people will start checking out Yahoo auctions...

[Havok]

Oh, you're gonna like this...

I'm pretty sure that once you become a Premier PayPal user, you get charged for ALL incoming payments (including non-credit card payments).

Damn - now that's something I didn't know, I'll have to check that out. If so, I'm outta there!

[unclet]

I am Ebay seller and accept PayPal (non-credit card payments only) since this way I do not pay PayPal any fees once the item sells.   

Currently, PayPal only takes a fee when a credit card transaction is required for payment.   If the buyer pays for the item via a bank account transfer or from a PayPal balance then no fees are required to be paid from the seller. 

I basically always state clearly that PayPal is accepted but not credit card payments.   If someone rarely pays me via PayPal with a credit card, then PayPal will not let the charge go through and I can "reject" the payment and ask the buyer to pay via some other means.

The problem is .... if the new PayPal/Ebay changes are true, then if someone pays me via PayPal with a credit card then PayPal might always accept the payment without telling me and then charge me the fees.   This would be bad in my opinion.    If this could happen, then I would simply not list my PayPal icon on my auctions, but would state in my description that PayPal is allowed (non-credit card payaments only).

[pointdablame]

you do in fact get charged for EVERY transfer made to a Premier Account, not only those backed by a credit card, at least that is what I recall my girlfriend saying.

This is a really shady move by eBay to raise their profits IMHO... nothing else.  It's already a known fact with regular eBay users that half the people on there can't read the terms of the auctions anyway... hence why people get confused but clearly stated payment instructions.

I'll keep selling on ebay, and keep my free PayPal account.  I'll simply not put the PayPal logo in auctions and state something like "you can use a common online payment method not backed by credit cards" in my auction terms.  People won't read it anyway, so whatever.....

[mmmPeanutButter]

you do in fact get charged for EVERY transfer made to a Premier Account, not only those backed by a credit card, at least that is what I recall my girlfriend saying.

This is absolutely true. 

I see where ebay is coming from... saying that they're looking out for the buyer.  How sweet.  It just means a ton more cash for them. 

What are the best alternatives to PayPal?

[AlanS17]

There isn't another service out there like PayPal that offers buyer protection. Western Union has some sort of online money order thing, but it really sucks for the buyer. The surcharge is crazy high. Plus there's not even buyer protection.

[unclet]

I see now.

[unix4hire]

I agree with you, I would definitely advise the buyer to NOT use the link from ebay to make payment via paypal if you are not a premium paypal account holder.  If I recall you cannot receive payments over $100 via paypal unless you are premium?

Anyway, I dont see anything wrong with the buyer paying the seller the paypal fee charged by using paypal.  Paypal is really for the buyer's convenience primarily because they can get their item quicker.  The seller can just ask for a check which they'd smartly hold for 7 days for it to clear the bank before sending the item to buyer.  So, unless seller needs money very quickly what is the benefit of actually taking a hit by offering paypal as a payment method?

ebay owns paypal so rather than increase ebay fees even more (seem high enough already?) this is another method for them to rake in the dough.  wish I had some of that stock.

[RayB]

Damn that's sleazy... and after all the hoopla about Ebay raising their fees all the time.

I have a Premier Paypal account, because I sell online through other sites. For the small price of my products, it was a good fit (cheaper than a real credit card company, and no monthly fee). I can confirm that they DO charge a fee for EVERY transaction. It's how they stay in business.

But now essentially doubling up fees when Ebay actually OWNS Paypal. I think they are just asking for an antitrust suit or something.

[pointdablame]

I agree with you, I would definitely advise the buyer to NOT use the link from ebay to make payment via paypal if you are not a premium paypal account holder.  If I recall you cannot receive payments over $100 via paypal unless you are premium?

Anyway, I dont see anything wrong with the buyer paying the seller the paypal fee charged by using paypal.  Paypal is really for the buyer's convenience primarily because they can get their item quicker.  The seller can just ask for a check which they'd smartly hold for 7 days for it to clear the bank before sending the item to buyer.  So, unless seller needs money very quickly what is the benefit of actually taking a hit by offering paypal as a payment method?

ebay owns paypal so rather than increase ebay fees even more (seem high enough already?) this is another method for them to rake in the dough.  wish I had some of that stock.

you cannot charge for teh PayPal fees... it is against the PayPal TOS and your account can be cancelled because of it.

[tristan]

That's why you charge a "handling" fee...

[unclet]

Exactly, you can charge for the increased PayPal fees ...... you just have to be smart enough not to mention "PayPal fees" as the reason for the extra costs.

Simply state:

 "the buyer pays for shipping costs plus an additional $1 to cover the associated handling required to process the paperwork for an online payment"

Most people will probably just get a Premier account, raise their rates a bit to cover it the fees and then not complain about the fees anymore until next year when Ebay and/or PayPal find another way to raise them again

[PaulG]

Maybe for rare arcade items you can be stricter, but I upgraded to the premier account years ago because I just felt the whole thing was a wash.  Ebay's an auction site.  The more bidders you have, the more likely your item is gonna sell for more money.  I know when I'm bidding, if an auction doesn't accept PayPal, I just go to those who do.  I realize this is different (still accepting PayPal), but I'm sure people who fund purchases with credit cards just go to auctions that do (Regardless of other payment methods).  Remember, even if a credit card bidder doesn't win an auction, if they bid, they may have drove up the final purchase price.  Just my two cents.  Now if you're only selling rare items (so seller can't be picky) or fixed price items, it sucks for sure.

Edit:  Just read the last couple posts and I have to agree.  It seems around the time of my upgrade to Premier, I no longer charge actual shipping charges.  If I'm shipping a Priority (Under 1 pound), I'll charge 5.00 shipping (Actual charge is 3.85).  Don't think this matters much (Since people factor in shipping charge when setting their bid limit), but at least it's less money Ebay is charging commission on.

[Kremmit]

I get around the problem with getting charged on every transaction with my Premiere account by simply having two accounts.  Well, one is technically my wife's, but whatever.  When an auction closes, I send folks a note asking them to use one Paypal address for credit card payments, or the other for non-credit payments.  Most folks get it right, believe it or not, and the few that don't really don't cost me all that much. 

Of course, that doesn't fix the problem of ebay more-or-less forcing everybody to upgrade their paypal account.  If it's true.. that url still looks suspicious to me.  Anybody find a link to this new policy anywhere on ebay's site?

[pointdablame]

It seems totally legit as far as the link goes.  Log on to the ebay homepage, hit the community tab, and look at the announcements.  It's right there.

[Kremmit]

Well, that's that, then.

Bummer.

I suppose it was just a matter of time before Paypal started phasing out free accounts, and this is the method they've chosen to start the process.  Soon enough, the only people with free accounts will be people that are buyers only, never sellers- and now Paypal will get a cut of every auction payment that goes through their system.

[Samstag]

and now Paypal will get a cut of every auction payment that goes through their system.

At least until g-money is unveiled.

[mmmPeanutButter]

and now Paypal will get a cut of every auction payment that goes through their system.

At least until g-money is unveiled.

amazing.

[SirPoonga]

The problem is .... if the new PayPal/Ebay changes are true, then if someone pays me via PayPal with a credit card then PayPal might always accept the payment without telling me and then charge me the fees.   This would be bad in my opinion.    If this could happen, then I would simply not list my PayPal icon on my auctions, but would state in my description that PayPal is allowed (non-credit card payaments only).

Yes, exactly.  Note this policy is only if you are going to display the paypal logo (IE select paypal from the payment methods when posting the auction).

"When the new policy takes effect, sellers who list with a PayPal Personal account may still receive payments funded via account balance or bank account transfers but must also be willing to upgrade to a PayPal Premier or Business Account if they receive a credit card payment via PayPal from their buyer."

This part has always been.  It's this part that they will force you to accept any possible payment method through paypal if you posted you accept paypal. 

When putting up an auction you can choose "other - see description" and put paypal through bank account only or money order.

I've started doing this because ebay and paypal take so much money form you.  You aren't suppose to have a "handling" fee to cover those costs but as a seller you want to make a profit so you need to cover all your costs.

[unclet]

Yes, but I believe Ebay stated that they will not allow sellers to put "accept PayPal only via bank transfer" type text in the "description" part of the auction either:

"Additionally, sellers may not communicate to eBay buyers (for example, in their item description) that they only accept, or will not accept, specific forms of PayPal payment. Doing so in a listing can lead to it being cancelled, and refusal to accept a payment after the auction has ended will constitute Seller Non-Performance"


I read Ebay's new rule as not allowing the seller to state they only accept PayPal bank transfers or PayPal balance payments only.

[mp2526]

FYI, although I believe Paypal and eBay would like to squeeze all the money out of a transaction as they can (and I don't fault them for it , we are a capitalist country after all), the issue of charging a fee for all Premier account transaction is not a total greed decision on Paypals part.  I'm sure they have to follow similar rules as any other business that accepts credit card payments.  According to the aggreements that the business signs with Visa/Mastercard/etc. they cannot charge more for a credit card payment than a non credit card payment.  So if they are charged a transaction fee by the credit card companies, and they then pass that charge onto the consumer, they must charge the same fee for all forms of payment or they are violating their agreement.

I know that doesn't really have much to do with this thread, but I thought I would put it out there so that you guys would have a better undertsanding of why the Premier accounts charge a fee regardless of the transaction type.

[pointdablame]

FYI, although I believe Paypal and eBay would like to squeeze all the money out of a transaction as they can (and I don't fault them for it , we are a capitalist country after all), the issue of charging a fee for all Premier account transaction is not a total greed decision on Paypals part.  I'm sure they have to follow similar rules as any other business that accepts credit card payments.  According to the aggreements that the business signs with Visa/Mastercard/etc. they cannot charge more for a credit card payment than a non credit card payment.  So if they are charged a transaction fee by the credit card companies, and they then pass that charge onto the consumer, they must charge the same fee for all forms of payment or they are violating their agreement.

I know that doesn't really have much to do with this thread, but I thought I would put it out there so that you guys would have a better undertsanding of why the Premier accounts charge a fee regardless of the transaction type.

I think most people understand WHY a fee is charged for each transaction, but that doesn't negate the fact that eBay is a small step away from FORCING people to upgrade their PayPal accounts.

From now on I will simply put "other online forms of payment accepted" or some such statement in my description.  That falls within eBay's new rules, and I'd imagine that most people would pick up on what that means once the new rule is put in place.

[mp2526]

I think most people understand WHY a fee is charged for each transaction, but that doesn't negate the fact that eBay is a small step away from FORCING people to upgrade their PayPal accounts.

From now on I will simply put "other online forms of payment accepted" or some such statement in my description.  That falls within eBay's new rules, and I'd imagine that most people would pick up on what that means once the new rule is put in place.

Actually, from my experience, most people don't realize that it's the credit card companies that force businesses to charge a fee for all types of transactions.  They just assume that it's Paypal's greed.  And like I said, that doesn't really have anything to do with this recent change by eBay, I was just pointing it out for the uninformed.

I don't really think this will affect anyone except the small seller who occasionally uses eBay like their online garage sale.  If you are using eBay as a business you probably already roll this fee into your "Handling" fees or set shipping fees.

I agree with you that many small time sellers will just find ways around it.

[pointdablame]

yes, exactly.

I'm not an eBay powerseller by a long shot... in fact, I very rarely sell on eBay, but like the fact that it is there if I want to use it.

If not directly saying I accept PayPal in my auction limits my number of potential customers, so be it.  eBay fees are already the reason I try to sell my stuff on forums first anyway

[AlanS17]

They're just charging you for convenience. You don't have to do it their way. It's not like they're saying all Ebay users must have Premier PayPal accounts. Granted, I doubt I'll ever bid on an item ever again that doesn't offer PayPal as payment method. I've been burned twice for NOT using PayPal.

The fact remains that buyers trust PayPal and it lets sellers receive their money in a fraction of the time.

I don't sell much on Ebay, but I personally am not bothered by the charge. By my estimations, it's probably going to cost me a few bucks over the course of the rest of my life. I can live with that. It'll save me a trip to the bank to cash a money order that took a week to reach me through the mail.

I'm a bigger cheapskate than most people in here, but I don't mind paying a little extra for big conveniences. What's PayPal's take on something I sell for $20? I bet it's something around 75 cents. I'd rather pay someone else 75 cents to deposit that $20 into my bank account for me.

[mp2526]

I don't sell much on Ebay, but I personally am not bothered by the charge. By my estimations, it's probably going to cost me a few bucks over the course of the rest of my life. I can live with that. It'll save me a trip to the bank to cash a money order that took a week to reach me through the mail.

I'm a bigger cheapskate than most people in here, but I don't mind paying a little extra for big conveniences. What's PayPal's take on something I sell for $20? I bet it's something around 75 cents. I'd rather pay someone else 75 cents to deposit that $20 into my bank account for me.

I totally agree.  My time is worth far more than what Paypal fees currently cost.  Money orders are such a pain to deal with.

[unclet]

Paypal would charge you $0.88 on a $20 payment (which is 2.9% + $0.30 of $20)

Anyway, I think I will keep my Personal PayPal account and simply state that I so accept online payments and the buyer can contact me to determine what those will be.

[spiffyshoes]

In the PayPal Terms it states that each individual person is allowed to have both a personal account and a premium account.

[AlanS17]

In the PayPal Terms it states that each individual person is allowed to have both a personal account and a premium account.

[unclet]

Actually, just use the PayPal logo in your auctions and clearly state that there will be an extra $100 charge if using a credit card for payment.  This should gurantee you never get a credit card payment.....

[SirPoonga]

Remember ebay and credit card fees.  I think it ranges on average for household items ebay and paypal will take out 8-15% of the final cost.

And since it isn't a percentage you can't plan for this except for what you think your item will sell for.  Plus add on a little bit for credit card fee.

I had this happen.  I was selling something that I figured would go for about $20.  I figured at the price I paid for it I would come out ahead.  I put that in as my minimum.  Ended up going enough less than what I thought that with the paypal and ebay fees I lost $0.10 even with a slightly higher shipping and handling than I normally do.

That's what made me change to only allowing paypal through bank account or money order.

I suppose in your ebay description you cna always put "email for payment options" instead of saying paypal via bank only.

But they must also be willing to accept credit card transactions if the buyer wants to pay with one.  So what I would do is list my personal account as my paypal account with ebay and if any one tries to pay with a credit card then reject the payment and send them an invoice with my premier account.

What do you gain?  Eitherway you have to accept the credit card payments, SO why not just use the premier account?

[unclet]

Because if you link your Premier account with Ebay, then when a buyer pays you using a bank transfer or by PayPal balance, then PayPal still gets  their 3% fee.

Basically, payment via bank transfer and PayPal balance are free with a Personal PayPal account but cost 3% fee when it occurs to a Premier account.

[pointdablame]

But they must also be willing to accept credit card transactions if the buyer wants to pay with one.  So what I would do is list my personal account as my paypal account with ebay and if any one tries to pay with a credit card then reject the payment and send them an invoice with my premier account.

What do you gain?  Eitherway you have to accept the credit card payments, SO why not just use the premier account?

.

You'd gain the ability to accept bank transfer or paypal balance payments with your regular account WITHOUT getting charged anything for it.   You gain a bit of a nuisance IMHO though for having to deal with 2 seperate accounts.  I'll just stick with my personal account.

[millercentral]

The one exception to the "fee on all transfers" for premium accounts on Paypal is for money that is already in one paypal account being transferred to another (that is if I transfer money from my bank account to my paypal account, waith the 3-4 days it takes to clear, then transfer it to someone else, the other person won't be charged a fee).

Does seem like a lame policy change by ebay.