MAMEDev's pull auctions without MAME

[AlanS17]

Well I've got to admit that a random suspended account does suck.

[AlanS17]

The best thing that could happen to Mame right now was if the project simply shut the BLEEP down.

Well that's pretty easy to say when you are primarily interested in games that are already emulated, and don't care so much for the new stuff.

I'm sure there are plenty of people in that boat, but there are plenty who aren't.

[ChadTower]

What incentive do they have to continue work on MAME if they get no recognition for it?

You're making a bad assumption.

[ChadTower]

I'm sure there are plenty of people in that boat, but there are plenty who aren't.

The people who are interested in new stuff for MAME... how are they rewarding the people doing the work?  Are they paying them?  Or are they sitting around waiting for the next round of free games without lifting a finger of their own?

[VMJ Team]

No one wants to see MAME get abondoned...but you did bring up a good point about creating waves.

If mamedev keeps on the course the are heading with their views on how to enforce their trademark, they're going to piss off the wrong person eventually who doesn't care a thing about mame.

[AlanS17]

I'm sure there are plenty of people in that boat, but there are plenty who aren't.

The people who are interested in new stuff for MAME... how are they rewarding the people doing the work?

[ChadTower]

They're likely sitting around waiting for the next round of free games. I'll concede that. It's off-topic, though.

It is directly on topic in that it speaks of a potential motivation for the current aggressiveness of the MAME people.  They may have hit the end of their tolerance for those people abusing them.

[Crazy Cooter]

No one wants to see MAME get abondoned...but you did bring up a good point about creating waves.

If mamedev keeps on the course the are heading with their views on how to enforce their trademark, they're going to piss off the wrong person eventually who doesn't care a thing about mame.

The problem is the people that abuse MAME and got on Foleys nerves.  If the Mamedevs don't enforce their trademark, there are 10 more Foley's standing in the shadows.  It's either the Mamedevs enforce it (and have seemingly been working with people on how they want their trademark used), or some numbnuts just goes ape and demands money from people... oh wait... Foley already did that.

Have you contacted the MAMEdevs about getting everything straightened out on ebay, if so are they helping you?  Have they demanded any money from you?  This whole thing seems a LOT less painful than it could have been.

[AlanS17]

They're likely sitting around waiting for the next round of free games. I'll concede that. It's off-topic, though.

It is directly on topic in that it speaks of a potential motivation for the current aggressiveness of the MAME people.

[Tiger-Heli]

All that ever gets added anymore is late model stuff (and the occassional bootleg 1984 piece of garbage).

They add a lot of naked Mahjong games too, Paige.

[ChadTower]

Well they've always worked on it for the sake of being able to use it. It wasn't until other people started making money that they started getting upset.

Unless you have spoken with them and this exact point came up, it is not possible to say at what point they started becoming concerned.

[NiN^_^NiN]

wait....if they don't own the rights to mame yet then they are doing the same thing as foley was doing???

or have i misread it? 

[Lilwolf]

actually, most of the mame devs don't actually play games.  Especially since the debug mode is much slower.  But after testing, most of them don't have times to play games.

Well they've always worked on it for the sake of being able to use it. It wasn't until other people started making money that they started getting upset.

There is another point to this.  They haven't really been accepting submissions from outsiders.  Ask a few around here who have made submissions in the past.  Most don't make it... Not matter how simple.   I think it just wasn't really worth Hazes time to clean up the code for each submission...  And if you only have time to add Aarons latest and someone you've never heard of's dip switch fix.... I think you can guess where the time goes.

I don't think they're concerned with a lack of support from casual users. That should be expected, unfortunately. Most casual users don't have the knowledge or means to help, anyways.

[Tiger-Heli]

wait....if they don't own the rights to mame yet then they are doing the same thing as foley was doing???

or have i misread it? 

You misread it.  Foley did not have a legitimate claim to the trademark, but was claiming it to shut competition down.  That is a felony.

MAMEdev does have a legitimate claim to the trademark, but has not gotten it approved yet (applicant, not registrant).  That is okay.

Although IANAL, and I guess MAMEdev could be in pretty big trouble for their actions if the trademark is rejected.

[Haze]

I never bought the "documentation" story either. It is a complete retcon. At the beginning Mame was just like every other emulator, it was for playing games, and no one (including the Nicola) was saying anything different.

I personally throw my vote in for simply dissolving further Mame development altogether. The classic games have been emulated perfectly for years. All that ever gets added anymore is late model stuff (and the occassional bootleg 1984 piece of garbage)

Ok...  If it was about the games then /why/ do we keep going, if, as you rightfully state all the classic games have already been emulated?

This gamers attitude is the exact opposite of those working on MAME.

Free Porn? I'm pretty sure I can find better images searching with Google than you're going to find in any of these games anyway.

If it was only about playing the games we would have all quit a long long time ago.

We work on this for free, we've been kicked around for a long time, people seeming to think they have a god given right to have exactly what they want emulated exactly how they want it emulated and be allowed to do whatever they feel with that emulator.  I'm quite fed up with it, there is a point where a hobby isn't fun anymore, and thanks to the actions of others not even worth continuing with.  We haven't got to that point yet, but the fuss people are kicking up because of a simple request not to use the MAME name is quite astounding.

Its amazing how many people rip MAME to pieces, yet nobody seems willing to take up the task of writing a new emulator from scratch to do things the way THEY think they should be done, or even taking one of the other dead emulators and putting some new life in that.

[Dexter]

In my best Rodney King voice......

"Can't we all just get along??"

In the other thread involving this I was advocating a friendly middle ground that would be beneficial to everybody. Guess that won't be happening anytime soon 

Just because Mame already does what most of us want doesn't mean we shouldn't appreciate their continued efforts and acknowledge what they have achieved in the same way, by APPRECIATING the FREE emulator and the FREE ENJOYMENT we've had from it. Anything else is a real "so long, and thanks for the fish" kind of kick in the nads.

Incidentally, Cheers mamedevs for the countless hours of fun and I genuinely hope you stick at this amazing project.

[ChadTower]

Every time Haze posts, my points become closer and closer to validation.

[pointdablame]

I tried my best to stay out of all this debate but I just can't help feeling like I should be standing on a corner with a cardboard sign that says "The end (of MAME[tm]) is near"

The fact is, I can't understand WHY people are getting so upset.  They have never been "MAME buttons" or "MAME locks" so just get over it.  If you have any clue what MAME is in the first place, then you know what to search for on eBay. Just get over it.  I wouldn't sell my TV as "compatible with FOX" 

It's a PC in a pretty box.. of course it can play MAME.. just like it can use any other PC program.  No need to advertise it as such.

/rant

[RayB]

The fact is, I can't understand WHY people are getting so upset.

[pointdablame]

I just think we should leave that up to the MAMEdevs and the people who would potentially sue them.  It's a double edged sword... they can turn their heads on the auctions... thus invalidating their trademark and making it useless.... or they can enforce it to the best of their abilities (and within eBay's technological abilities) to keep their rights... but piss people off.

It's easy to sit on the sideline and make that decisions, but try doing it in their positions.  And let's call a spade a spade here... what are 99% of these encoders and empty cabs and button sets et al being used for... MAME.  we all know it, and that's the point.  There is no NEED to put it in the auctions, but we do... and then we moan about it when we get called out.

Keyword spamming does happen all the time, I agree...but it is up to the copyright/trademark holders to do something about it.  TY isn't going after "like Beanie Baby" auctions, or their wouldn't be so many of them on eBay.  So while it might not be "legal" it is still done with no problems.  Same with most keyword spamming.

Just because some people (the devs) are using their rights, we get mad cuz we can't sell more stuff on eBay.

I doubt very highly that Joe Schmo is looking on eBay, randomly searches for a keyboard encoder, and then says "hey this MAME encoder rules, now I need to buy MAME brand buttons with a MAME cabinet and MAME coin door"  If you are looking for them on eBay, you know what they are.

[Crazy Cooter]

I doubt very highly that Joe Schmo is looking on eBay, randomly searches for a keyboard encoder, and then says "hey this MAME encoder rules, now I need to buy MAME brand buttons with a MAME cabinet and MAME coin door" If you are looking for them on eBay, you know what they are.

lol.

[MrTroy]

(ie: selling a bean bag toy and adding "like Beanie Baby" to the title so you can grab searches for Beanie Baby.

There's a big difference between "Like Beanie Baby" and "Beanie Baby". You have to be careful how you word it. It I see "Arcade Button" and "Arcade Button for Mame" and I'm building a PC for using MAME of course anyone who really doesn't know is going to say "This one with the Mame name in it is the one I want"

I doubt very highly that Joe Schmo is looking on eBay, randomly searches for a keyboard encoder, and then says "hey this MAME encoder rules, now I need to buy MAME brand buttons with a MAME cabinet and MAME coin door" If you are looking for them on eBay, you know what they are.

I disagree. I think the common idiot will fall for something like that. I know I have 

What's the point of having something trademarked if people are just going to use it for their own benifit and then argue with you on how you're wrong for doing so? MAMEDev is doing nothing wrong. If I were selling knockoffs of Super Nintendo. And Nintendo was turning a blind eye to it. Don't be an idiot and say "For use with Troy's Knock off of Nintendo's Super Nintendo". Screw that. You DON'T have to use the MAME name. It's been proven. If you can't sell your item without using the MAME name then that would imply that your item only works with MAME. Now everything I've seen here doesn't apply.

Heck there's a list of PC games that'll play better if you have keyboard encoders.

I mean come on look at this and seriously tell me there's nothing short of trying to profit off of the MAME name here.

I should be able to just go ahead and decive people and sell sneakers and say "Compatible with MAME". keyword spamming is just annoying. It sucks. It's like any form of spamming. And I darn sure wouldn't like someone saying "Sponsered by good 'ol Troy" if I don't want to.

The only thing I disagree with is the pulling of auctions without the MAME name in it. But I aint here to fight that fight.

[Paul Olson]

It I see "Arcade Button" and "Arcade Button for Mame" and I'm building a PC for using MAME of course anyone who really doesn't know is going to say "This one with the Mame name in it is the one I want"

I'm exactly the opposite on things like this.  If I see "MAME buttons", I assume (correctly most of the time) that they are low quality parts that the seller is trying to sell to people who do not know any better.  I don't think I have ever done a search for "MAME".  If I am looking for buttons, I search for "button" or "pushbutton" or "Happ".  If I want an encoder, I go to ultimarc.com or maybe groovygamegear.com.

Paul

[RayB]

There's a big difference between "Like Beanie Baby" and "Beanie Baby". You have to be careful how you word it.

I disagree, and here is why: An Ebay title ony permits so many characters, so most of the time you need to drop non-keywords such as "Like", so that you can fit in keywords that matter. And this is where taking a shotgun approach at closing auctions is just so wrong, because you have to evaluate precisely what the person is really selling or implying.

I am curious if any listings got pulled that had nothing to do with MAME, such as MAME the musical, movie, recordings... MAME Maternity clothes, etc... (Mame is not as unique a word as many people think).

[Crazy Cooter]

I am curious if any listings got pulled that had nothing to do with MAME, such as MAME the musical, movie, recordings... MAME Maternity clothes, etc... (Mame is not as unique a word as many people think).

If they were in the arcade section of Ebay, yeah, they'd probably get pulled.  Otherwise, no.

I disagree, and here is why: An Ebay title ony permits so many characters, so most of the time you need to drop non-keywords such as "Like", so that you can fit in keywords that matter. And this is where taking a shotgun approach at closing auctions is just so wrong, because you have to evaluate precisely what the person is really selling or implying.

That's exactly why they don't want MAME in the title.  Why should MAME be a keyword?  The authors of the program and owners of the trademark don't want it to be used as such.  They want "MAME" to be associated with the emulator, that's it.  Not buttons, not encoders, not cabinets, just the emulator.  That's how you are required to protect a trademark.  If you don't protect it, you'll lose it.  They're not demanding money from people or anything, they just want to be sure what is theirs stays theirs.

[Daniel270]

Wasn't there an older movie named "MAME"?

[Chris]

Wasn't there an older movie named "MAME"?

[brandon]

I'm sure there are plenty of people in that boat, but there are plenty who aren't.

The people who are interested in new stuff for MAME... how are they rewarding the people doing the work?

[Tiger-Heli]

I'm sure there are plenty of people in that boat, but there are plenty who aren't.

The people who are interested in new stuff for MAME... how are they rewarding the people doing the work?  Are they paying them?  Or are they sitting around waiting for the next round of free games without lifting a finger of their own?

Perhaps I misunderstood your statement but.. What difference does it make if people are playing old games like Pacman or newer games like Mortal Kombat?  If they arent legally entitled to do so I don't see that it matters if the game came out 5 years ago or 25 years ago.  It'd still be just as illegal either way and anyone would be a hypocrite to say otherwise.  you can bet that Namco views Pacman or the nth version Tekken in the same regard and would sue your ass quickly over either one

There's about three issues here:

First - legally - it makes no difference as an end-user if the ROMS that you don't own the rights to are from 5 year old games or 25 year old games.

Second - to the arcade game manufacturers, it makes a very big difference.  MAME had a gentlemen's agreement with Incredible Technologies, that the newer Golden Tee's would not be released until IT stopped selling them commercially.  I think other companies got the same agreement.

Finally, if you hang around the www.mame.net forums, about once a week (or more) someone will post "I just love <insert favorite last few year's game>.  When are you guys going to get off your --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules-- and emulate it.  You guys suck." or something to that effect, which kinda kills the dev's motivation to continue work on a project with possible legal ramifications.

[ChadTower]

Perhaps I misunderstood your statement but.. What difference does it make if people are playing old games like Pacman or newer games like Mortal Kombat?

[brandon]

Perhaps I misunderstood your statement but.. What difference does it make if people are playing old games like Pacman or newer games like Mortal Kombat?