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"Propagannon" confirmed : Fake reporter in WH press conferences.
mr.Curmudgeon:
--- Quote from: mr.Curmudgeon on February 14, 2005, 10:21:59 am ---mrC: I certainly hope this is something interesting, since we already know Guckert *is* "Gannon", we didn't need the watch to conclude that. Hmmm....
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From a poster on AMERICAblog: "D-R-I-N-K-M-O-R-E-O-V-A-L-T-I-N-E"
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! I hope it's better than that, but I won't get my hopes up. :)
mrC
fredster:
--- Quote from: mr.Curmudgeon on February 14, 2005, 09:59:32 am ---
--- Quote from: fredster on February 14, 2005, 08:47:04 am ---Last I heard, the President hasn't even presented his plan. How can you tear apart a plan that you haven't seen? What are the ACTUAL details of his plan? You don't know, unless you work for him now do you?
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More importantly..*why* hasn't he presented the ACTUAL details of his plan? He is campaigning around the country, trying to strongarm opposition Democrats, yet...he hasn't unveiled the plan he's campaigning for? Sounds like a boondoggle to me.
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So, you haven't seen the Plan, and apparently you haven't been Listening to him either. So you are "ranting" about something you haven't had a chance to see if it will work or give it a chance, or offer any solution, or even really want to see it **nuff said on that subject.
--- Quote ---I consider things a total failure only when I consider myself intelligent enough and in possession of enough information that I cannot see a way to success.
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I suggest you get a bigger sign. Maybe that will help. Start beating a tamborene or something to make your point " The sky is falling" etc.
Because I suspect that if one the greatest Military victorys of the Modern era isn't a "success" to you, then I'm not sure what would be. The transformation of a tyranny to a democracy isn't a success, then you can't be convinced.
If and when the Middle east has Iraq and Afgahnistan as an example of what freedom can do to the rest of these countries, we can see a very huge benifit.
mr.Curmudgeon:
--- Quote from: fredster on February 14, 2005, 11:25:40 am ---If and when the Middle east has Iraq and Afgahnistan as an example of what freedom can do to the rest of these countries, we can see a very huge benifit.
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"Sky is falling" VS. "Pie in the Sky".....sounds about right.
mrC
ChadTower:
--- Quote from: fredster on February 14, 2005, 11:25:40 am ---Because I suspect that if one the greatest Military victorys of the Modern era isn't a "success" to you, then I'm not sure what would be. The transformation of a tyranny to a democracy isn't a success, then you can't be convinced.
If and when the Middle east has Iraq and Afgahnistan as an example of what freedom can do to the rest of these countries, we can see a very huge benifit.
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Iraq and Afghanistan are not democracies yet and they are not free yet. These people don't appear to want democracy nor freedom. The only thing preventing a bloody coup in Iraq is the US presence. We're talking about a region that in 8000 years has not once stood up and fought for its own freedom. What makes us think they want it now?
Stomping a vastly inferior military is not a great victory, it's an expected one. Outlasting the Soviet Union was a great victory. Defeating Nazi Germany was a great victory. Iraq was something we stepped on (and in).
Iraq cannot be called a success because it is nowhere near any plausible end goal. It cannot be called a failure for the same reason.
fredster:
--- Quote ---Sky is falling" VS. "Pie in the Sky".....sounds about right.
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Either one is likely. People want to live and live without oppression. It has a better chance of success than failure IMHO.
On top of Godwin's law, I now introduce "fredster's law"
Any converation on BYOAC about politics breaks down to the Iraq question.