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Lost: 380 tons of high explosives - Last seen in Iraq
TA Pilot:
I've never commented on the field commander. I'm commenting on Bush.
You think -Bush- gave the movement order to Baghdad?
The stuff was last seen there.
On 15 March 2003.
Of course, there's a question as to the quantity:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=204304&page=1
And there's the real possibility that they were moved pror to war - want to guess by whom?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041028-122637-6257r.htm
If you've got people stopping by there anyhow, I see two options; secure it, or walk away from it leaving it unattended.
Given the circumstances, CLEARLY the commander on the ground made the decision to move on. According to YOU that was the wrong decision. How are YOU a competent judge?
(Never mind the HUGE probability that the explosives werent there)
So, why arent you answeing my questions?
Fear?
How do you move an Iraqi truck, even just one, on roads filled with American troops?
What do you suppose American soldiers would do when they found a lone Iraqi truck driving down thew road, a few miles from Baghdad?
What do you think the chances are of this 1 truck making 40 trips w/o being caught?
Moreover, why do you do it after the Americans have overrun the facility when you could have done it on 16 March?
It comes down to what you believe to be more likely:
-The Iraqis moved ~40 truckloads of explosives out of the area between 15 March and 4 April before American troops arrived;
-The Iraqis moved ~40 truckloads of explosives out of the area between 5 April and 8 May with American troops all over the place.
Well? These questions arent rhetorical.
TA Pilot:
that's the question, isn't it?
Yes. And like everyone else, you dont offer an answer.
Oh, you think you're giving a clever answer in your reference to the ambush of some Iraqi soldiers, but in reality, you're just illistrating your ignorance - pulling off a one-time ambush isnt in any way comparable to moving several convoy of trucks through enemy-held territory.
Try again, sparky.
How do you move an Iraqi truck, even just one, on roads filled with American troops?
What do you suppose American soldiers would do when they found a lone Iraqi truck driving down thew road, a few miles from Baghdad?
What do you think the chances are of this 1 truck making 40 trips w/o being caught?
Moreover, why do you do it after the Americans have overrun the facility when you could have done it on 16 March?
It comes down to what you believe to be more likely:
-The Iraqis moved ~40 truckloads of explosives out of the area between 15 March and 4 April before American troops arrived;
-The Iraqis moved ~40 truckloads of explosives out of the area between 5 April and 8 May with American troops all over the place.
Well? These questions arent rhetorical.
mr.Curmudgeon:
--- Quote from: TA Pilot on October 28, 2004, 09:45:23 am ---
It comes down to what you believe to be more likely:
-The Iraqis moved ~40 truckloads of explosives out of the area between 5 April and 8 May with American troops all over the place.
Well? These questions arent rhetorical.
--- End quote ---
Your question may have just been answered:
"Minneapolis ABC affiliate, KSTP, broadcast footage shot in an are believed to be AlQaQaa on April 18th. Their report describes: "box after box... clearly marked "explosive." In one bunker, there were boxes marked with the name "AlQaqaa", the munitions plant where tons of explosives allegedly went missing."
...
"During that trip, members of the 101st Airborne Division showed the 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS crew bunker after bunker of material labelled explosives. Usually it took just the snap of a bolt cutter to get in and see the material identified by the 101st as detonation cords.
"We can stick it in those and make some good bombs." a soldier told our crew."
...
"Officers with the 101st Airborne told 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS that the bunkers were within the U.S. military perimeter and protected. But Caffrey and former 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS Reporter Dean Staley, who spent three months in Iraq, said Iraqis were coming and going freely."
...
The NYTimes has even chatted w/ some looters from the site: (Registration Required)
BAGHDAD, Iraq, Oct. 27 - Looters stormed the weapons site at Al Qaqaa in the days after American troops swept through the area in early April 2003 on their way to Baghdad, gutting office buildings, carrying off munitions and even dismantling heavy machinery, three Iraqi witnesses and a regional security chief said Wednesday.
...
The Iraqis described an orgy of theft so extensive that enterprising residents rented their trucks to looters. But some looting was clearly indiscriminate, with people grabbing anything they could find and later heaving unwanted items off the trucks.
...
But the accounts make clear that what set off much if not all of the looting was the arrival and swift departure of American troops, who did not secure the site after inducing the Iraqi forces to abandon it.
"The looting started after the collapse of the regime," said Wathiq al-Dulaimi, a regional security chief, who was based nearby in Latifiya. But once it had begun, he said, the booty streamed toward Baghdad.
Personally, unlike Giuliani and the Bush White House, I'm not going to blame the troops. This munitions scandal is a direct result of a lack of sufficient numbers of boots on the ground and a complete lack of leadership. A C&C has the ultimate responsibility...It's a shame people seem to forget that when things aren't going well. If things were going swimmingly, how many aircraft carrier landings do you think Bush would partake in, in order to prove his godlike soldiering?
In other news: "Russia angrily denied allegations Thursday that Russian forces had smuggled a cache of high explosives out of Iraq (news - web sites) prior to the U.S. invasion in March 2003."
To me, it's clear Bush failed our troops, our nation, the Iraqi people and the world at large. Iraq has been one debacle after another. His excuses are crumbling around him, he can run, but he can't hide.
P.S. I'm back for a couple of days, then I'm back out to GOTV. I'll behave, but boy did I miss these threads. ;)
Edit: Additional "smoking gun" photos added.
TA Pilot:
Your question may have just been answered
This doesnt answer my question.
LOTS of things are maked "explosive". Unless you can show that these containers hold the explosives in question, its pretty meaningless.
And you STILL havent explained the logistics of moving 380 tolds of explosives from the facility, with American troops all around.
mr.Curmudgeon:
--- Quote from: TA Pilot on October 28, 2004, 12:52:20 pm ---Your question may have just been answered
This doesnt answer my question.
LOTS of things are maked "explosive". Unless you can show that these containers hold the explosives in question, its pretty meaningless.
--- End quote ---
That's in the works...believe me. I not an explosives expert.
Per KSTP: "The footage is now in the hands of security experts to see if it is indeed the explosives in question."
That being said, as we await the verdict I'd like to ask you, if this stuff *is* proven to be the munitions in question, will that make any difference to you? Do you care that this junk is possibly blowing the arms and legs off of our men and women due to negligence on the part of Bush and his war planners? Or is it still more important to you that your boy win?
I'm just going to keep providing the latest evidence, I fully expect you to keep ignoring it. Maybe you'll suprise me, or maybe someone else will see the light (if it turns out to be the RDX in question)
--- Quote ---And you STILL havent explained the logistics of moving 380 tolds of explosives from the facility, with American troops all around.
--- End quote ---
That, apparently, is a question you'll have to ask the Bush team.