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The Clinton gun ban has expired!
patrickl:
--- Quote from: TA Pilot on September 21, 2004, 07:57:53 pm ---And you're right: you cant make a good argument for gun control, whereas good arguments -against- it are plentiful. You'll notice that, invariably, the people that resort to nonsensical attacks on othe rpeople are those that -support- gun control.
--- End quote ---
That's just not true. There is no good argument why every idiot should own their own gun. Self defense is the stupidest of them all since you will not have your gun handy when you need it anyway. If you just came to protest against gun control then you better go away. You really only hurt the case you are fighting for.
For what it's worth, people in the Netherlands CAN own their own gun. In fact I shot with an M16, an AK47 and a handgun (forgot the brand) it's just harder to get them (1 year wait and you are screened) and there are strict rules on storage. This prevents people who are temporarily insane from shooting up a postal office or fast food restaurant. Also hardly any kids playing with their dads gun and accidentily shooting themselfs or their friends.
Accidents and temporary insanity are the areas where gun control matters. Guns don't kill people, people don't kill people, but idiots (insane people or kids who like to play with guns) with guns kill people.
Of course criminals can still get their guns and they do. Having your own gun is not gonna stop a bullet from their guns though. The number of people shot with firearms by criminals is only a measure of how criminal that society is. These figures are irrelevant to gun control since these people will get their gun no matter what. On the other hand if noone owns a gun, criminals are less likely to need a gun and thus they are less likely to get one. Again you save on people shot "by accident" since a burglar realy doesn't go out to kill people.
I haven't seen a single good comment for removing gun control. Probably the only one would be "I want to own and shoot a gun". That's fine, but why not have rules on that?
Mameotron:
--- Quote from: patrickl on September 22, 2004, 03:58:35 am ---That's just not true. There is no good argument why every idiot should own their own gun.
--- End quote ---
Nobody says every idiot should own their own gun. Our government was founded on freedoms, and the CHOICE to own a gun is guaranteed by anyone who lives here.
Our government was also made to be changed and updated as necessary, and so far the majority of us do not feel that the CHOICE to own a gun should be given up.
--- Quote --- Self defense is the stupidest of them all since you will not have your gun handy when you need it anyway.
--- End quote ---
Who knows when you will need it? You'd better be prepared and have it at the ready at all times. I have lived through being robbed at gunpoint, and I've made the decision that I will not let that happen again. I have a concealed carry permit and my gun goes where I go.
I think that if you check some statistics you will see that a majority of concealed carry permit holders have a reason for carrying- they have been robbed, shot, raped, in the past... no amount of legislation or gun control will ever keep the criminals from acting.
--- Quote ---For what it's worth, people in the Netherlands CAN own their own gun. In fact I shot with an M16, an AK47 and a handgun (forgot the brand) it's just harder to get them (1 year wait and you are screened) and there are strict rules on storage. This prevents people who are temporarily insane from shooting up a postal office or fast food restaurant. Also hardly any kids playing with their dads gun and accidentily shooting themselfs or their friends.
--- End quote ---
Any legislation that imposes waiting periods and screenings in an attempt to circumvent crimes of passion is totally useless. I can go downtown and buy a black market gun quickly and easily.
--- Quote ---Accidents and temporary insanity are the areas where gun control matters. Guns don't kill people, people don't kill people, but idiots (insane people or kids who like to play with guns) with guns kill people.
--- End quote ---
We DO have effective legislation in place for these situations, and they do not involve gun control. Last year in my town, a lady was on her front porch talking to her neighbors when her 10 year old son shot and killed his cousin with a loaded shotgun they found in the house. The woman who was watching them (and was deemed responsible for their safety) is now in prison. She admitted to knowing the gun was there, and that it was loaded.
Idiots also go to prison for killing people. If you try to say that boy would be alive today if the gun wasn't there, then where do you stop? There are knives in the kitchen, there are electrical outlets all over the house, there are cars in the street... At some point you have to say that responsible parenting will overcome these obstacles.
--- Quote ---Of course criminals can still get their guns and they do. Having your own gun is not gonna stop a bullet from their guns though. The number of people shot with firearms by criminals is only a measure of how criminal that society is. These figures are irrelevant to gun control since these people will get their gun no matter what. On the other hand if noone owns a gun, criminals are less likely to need a gun and thus they are less likely to get one. Again you save on people shot "by accident" since a burglar realy doesn't go out to kill people.
--- End quote ---
If criminals know you do not have a gun they are more apt to be bolder in what they will do to you, and more likely to kill you to make sure there are no witnesses.
Your view of burglars is amazingly wrong. A few months ago my Aunt and Uncle were robbed in their home in the middle of the night. They do not own any guns, but the robbers did have guns. After they took what they wanted, they tied my Uncle to a chair and made him watch helplessly as they beat my Aunt to a bloody pulp with a fireplace iron. No, criminals have no such morals as you make them out to have.
--- Quote ---I haven't seen a single good comment for removing gun control. Probably the only one would be "I want to own and shoot a gun". That's fine, but why not have rules on that?
--- End quote ---
You never will. Maybe if you take off your blinders and try to look at the other side of the argument you just might.
TA Pilot:
That's just not true. There is no good argument why every idiot should own their own gun.
No one makes this argument. No one argues that criminals, children, the mentally infirm or non-citizens have the right to arms.
Further, as a standard discalimer, any reference to gun control laws being an infringement of the right to arms does not apply to the above people, as they have no such right.
Self defense is the stupidest of them all since you will not have your gun handy when you need it anyway.
Tell me:
If the right to arms isnt about self-defense - then what?
If you just came to protest against gun control then you better go away. You really only hurt the case you are fighting for.
Sounds like you're nervous. Thats OK.
Accidents and temporary insanity are the areas where gun control matters.
And in neither case does gun control affect these things.
Gun control only limits people that obey the law. It doesnt stop people that want a gun and are willing to do what they have to do from getting one. It also doesnt stop accidents, as accidents are only avoided by people knowing how to proprely handle a firearm.
Guns don't kill people, people don't kill people, but idiots (insane people or kids who like to play with guns) with guns kill people.
In the US, most gun deaths are fom suicide. Which category does that fall under, and what sort of law would stop it?
Of course criminals can still get their guns and they do. Having your own gun is not gonna stop a bullet from their guns though.
Curious. You're arguing that the police should not have guns - after all, a policeman's gun cant stop a bullet. You DO know of course that having a gun at least gives you a chance against a criminal that does -- and a VERY good chance against a criminal that doesnt. Right?
Given that ~75% of violent crime in the US is NOT committed with a gun, what support is there for the argument that a gun wont help a victim against a criminal?
The number of people shot with firearms by criminals is only a measure of how criminal that society is. These figures are irrelevant to gun control since these people will get their gun no matter what.
This is silly. Gun control is suppoedly about crime control - and you admit that criminals arent affected by gun control.
You, yourself, are arguing that gun control doesnt work.
Why have it?
On the other hand if noone owns a gun, criminals are less likely to need a gun and thus they are less likely to get one. Again you save on people shot "by accident" since a burglar realy doesn't go out to kill people.
I really really really wory about someone who argues that "disarming the victim will disarm the criminal". Its... insane beyond description.
Criminals prey on the weak. Disarming people make them weaker - and thus, more likely to be preyed upon.
I haven't seen a single good comment for removing gun control
How about
-Gun control doesnt keep guns from the hands of criminals
-Gun control infringes the right of the people
It doesnt do what its supposed to do and it infringes my rights. There isnt a single rational reason to keep it.
Witchboard:
I know I really shouldn
TA Pilot:
Amen, brother.
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