Translucent Microswitch Buttons **www.fxbuttons.com**

[jace055]

If you are still going into production, I am in for some  opaque/white/clear so I can just put any color LED in.

[shawnzilla]

As promised, a little update about the buttons.

Not much to report at the moment, the distributor and their factory are having an argument about pricing.

Basically, I was quoted a price from the distributor for the prototyping and production of the buttons, and now the factory is balking and trying to raise the price & minimum number of units.

The distributor is waiting to send me the button samples until they can strike a deal with the factory.

So...I hope to have some samples to show everyone very soon! Finding a manufacturer for these is tough, so I'm going to try and stick with this one.

[arcadegeezer]

I would really like some clear Translucent & UV reactive, 24 of
each !

Keep-up the good work and let us know when you get an answer from the supplier.


Thanks

[JustMichael]

Hopefully you can get some "frosted" ones that will shine whatever color you light them up with...   

[shawnzilla]

Just a quick update. Unfortunately, the news is not great. The factory that my manufacturer was working with, very suddenly changed their mind about minimum # of units that I would have to order (by a ridiculous amount). Basically, I had agreed to put in an order of 10,000 units upon my approval of the button prototypes, and now they are suddenly talking 50,000+ units (and they keep changing the cost). So, the manufacturer is seeking a new production facility who would be willing to honor my original agreement.

I will keep everyone posted on any new developments. I'm still trying very hard to make these buttons a reality!

[shawnzilla]

Hey all, thought I'd give a quick bump to let you know what's going on with these.

1) I had a distributor/manufacturer lined up to produce these and it fell through due to deception on the part of the manufacturer.

2) The distributor continues to search for a new manufacturer, but is not successful thus far.

I still want to make these buttons a reality, but I think I need a little ingenuity from everyone. Does anyone have an idea of whom I can turn to in order to get these produced?

[oldsage]

Ooooh! Either 12 blues and 8-12 clear or 6 blues 6 reds and 8-12 clear...! that could be awesome... *drool*

Hope it works out fine...!

[shawnzilla]

Heh, I spoke too soon. I just got some word from the distributor. He found another manufacturer that is capable of producing the buttons. BUT, they too want a minimum production run of 100,000 units. He's trying to negotiate this number down (because I seriously doubt there's THAT many BYOACers out there!).

I will continue to keep everyone posted as this develops.

[oldsage]

Heh, I spoke too soon. I just got some word from the distributor. He found another manufacturer that is capable of producing the buttons. BUT, they too want a minimum production run of 100,000 units. He's trying to negotiate this number down (because I seriously doubt there's THAT many BYOACers out there!).

I will continue to keep everyone posted as this develops.

How many units do you think you'll need? (that is, if you wouldn't have a minimum run limitation, how much would you produce?
Just intrested... BTW, you didn't say if you intend on including microswitches with the buttons. (again, say everything would go perfectly fine, would you include microswitches?)

[RandyT]

Heh, I spoke too soon. I just got some word from the distributor. He found another manufacturer that is capable of producing the buttons. BUT, they too want a minimum production run of 100,000 units. He's trying to negotiate this number down (because I seriously doubt there's THAT many BYOACers out there!).

I will continue to keep everyone posted as this develops.

The reason for the high production requirements is the amortization of the tooling costs.  If you want cheap or low cost tooling, a manufacturer will eat some or all of the costs so long as you can guarantee the purchase of a fixed number of parts at a certain price.

I hope you have better luck in finding an inexpensive injection molded parts supplier than I have.  Unfortunately,  based on my experiences, I think you may be "pushing on a rope".

RandyT

[shawnzilla]

The number that I the distributor and I originally agreed upon was 10,000 units (2,500 of each available color). Even at that number, I'm fairly certain that my inventory would have held out for a long long time.

The problem, As RandyT is pointing out, is that it's hard to find a manufacturer who will do the molding for a smaller fee.

I'm not sure about microswitches yet. I'm trying to keep costs down for the BYOACers as much as possible, so microswitches will probably be optional.

Heh, I spoke too soon. I just got some word from the distributor. He found another manufacturer that is capable of producing the buttons. BUT, they too want a minimum production run of 100,000 units. He's trying to negotiate this number down (because I seriously doubt there's THAT many BYOACers out there!).

I will continue to keep everyone posted as this develops.

How many units do you think you'll need? (that is, if you wouldn't have a minimum run limitation, how much would you produce?
Just intrested... BTW, you didn't say if you intend on including microswitches with the buttons. (again, say everything would go perfectly fine, would you include microswitches?)

[2600]

Would it not be easier to contact Cherry themselves?  www.cherrycorp.com

I think they make the buttons for happs (Cherry L4 series), they have the mold, and I think they say they offer other colors you probably just need to call and have a minimum order.  I imagine the minimum is smaller than doing it yourself.

[shawnzilla]

I will check into this.

Would it not be easier to contact Cherry themselves?  www.cherrycorp.com

I think they make the buttons for happs (Cherry L4 series), they have the mold, and I think they say they offer other colors you probably just need to call and have a minimum order.  I imagine the minimum is smaller than doing it yourself.

[oldsage]

The number that I the distributor and I originally agreed upon was 10,000 units (2,500 of each available color). Even at that number, I'm fairly certain that my inventory would have held out for a long long time.

The problem, As RandyT is pointing out, is that it's hard to find a manufacturer who will do the molding for a smaller fee.

Cool, i understand that, it's pretty similar to printing a book in that matter. I was just asking out of curiosity how much did you expect to sell...

I really hope this works out, clear buttons would make a very nice touch to my cab (still in design though, i have time...)...

*drool*

Would it not be easier to contact Cherry themselves? www.cherrycorp.com

I think they make the buttons for happs (Cherry L4 series), they have the mold, and I think they say they offer other colors you probably just need to call and have a minimum order. I imagine the minimum is smaller than doing it yourself.

You think they will allow him to use a mold that belongs to someone else? (i said that in a very unclear way, but you understand what i mean - happ gave them the plans for it, so they won't just let someone else use 'em...)

But, i don't know a thing about that so i'm probably wrong...

[RayB]

I'm curious... why are you dealing with a distributor who then in turn deals with the manufacturer? Isn't the distributor cutting themselves in on the profit? What do you need the distributor for?

~Ray B.

[oldsage]

I'm curious... why are you dealing with a distributor who then in turn deals with the manufacturer? Isn't the distributor cutting themselves in on the profit? What do you need the distributor for?

~Ray B.

They are probably handling shipping and stuff, and i assume they are like real-estate brokers - they do most of the dirty work for a charge...

[shawnzilla]

I happen to be a realtor... 

I'm curious... why are you dealing with a distributor who then in turn deals with the manufacturer? Isn't the distributor cutting themselves in on the profit? What do you need the distributor for?

~Ray B.

They are probably handling shipping and stuff, and i assume they are like real-estate brokers - they do most of the dirty work for a charge...

[oldsage]

I happen to be a realtor...

[shawnzilla]

None yet. I'll keep everyone posted.

I happen to be a realtor... 

I'm curious... why are you dealing with a distributor who then in turn deals with the manufacturer? Isn't the distributor cutting themselves in on the profit? What do you need the distributor for?

~Ray B.

They are probably handling shipping and stuff, and i assume they are like real-estate brokers - they do most of the dirty work for a charge...

Lol!!! 
BTW, Any progress??

[oldsage]

I know i'm being a pain in the ass, but is there any progress yet???
(man, i am such a nag...  )
I just can't wait any longer!!! I think i'm gonna blow up or something!!!!
Must... Have... CLEAR... PUSHBUTTONS!!!!!!

[shawnzilla]

Just be patient. I have been working on this for months. As you can see in this thread, it isn't easy to get a manufacturer to make a custom product without spending a fortune. Trust me, when I know something, you'll know something. 

I know i'm being a pain in the ass, but is there any progress yet???
(man, i am such a nag...  )
I just can't wait any longer!!! I think i'm gonna blow up or something!!!!
Must... Have... CLEAR... PUSHBUTTONS!!!!!!

[oldsage]

Trust me, when I know something, you'll know something.

And when that happens, i'm happy !
(unless it's a bad something, lol...)

[shawnzilla]

Well, unfortunately I did not have luck going through Cherry. At least they were friendly about it. The guy actually checked into for me (unlike some other companies that I have approached). Cherry doesn't have the capability to make the translucent colors.

I'll keep trying, but things are looking less likely.

[RayB]

Maybe we shold go straight to the source... Like Industrias Lorenzo (sp?) and petition them to make some clear buttons!

[Kremmit]

Industrias Lorenzo.

[quarterback]

Industrial Lorenzo Lamas!

[shawnzilla]

Alrighty, I have sent my questions to Industrias Loreno.

[shawnzilla]

Alrighty, I'm now in communication with IL and they have emailed me back. They are confused as to why I would want the translucent colors and want to know what the intended application is for. They're also confused about the translucency, because in their view, it is a non-lighted pushbutton.

I've sent a responsse that hopefully explains it to them. I'll keep y'all posted!

[stevejt]

In your explaination, did you include any pics from the board of lit up buttons from some of the custom cp's?  I think that might give them a better idea of what material and colors can be used in production.

Steve

[shawnzilla]

In your explaination, did you include any pics from the board of lit up buttons from some of the custom cp's?

[RayB]

Just tell them there is a big demand for them. Point them to all the Ebay auctions of old translucent buttons. Tell them also that alot of collectors need translucents for accurate restoration of Williams cabs.
 

[Chris]

Just tell them there is a big demand for them. Point them to all the Ebay auctions of old translucent buttons. Tell them also that alot of collectors need translucents for accurate restoration of Williams cabs.
 

Except those cabs had leaf switches.

IL did the black start buttons for us, didn't they?  Surely we're talking about at least as many buttons here...

The problem is probably going to be multiple colors, as I'm sure a minimum order will be required for each color.

--Chris

[RandyT]

Another possible snag could be the material required for the translucents.

Normal buttons are made from a Nylon material which is relatively soft,  somewhat flexible and self lubricating to a good extent.

On the other hand, the translucent materials are usually harder, more brittle and would probably require a release agent to be used in the de-molding process.

Plastics are usually not thought of as abrasive materials, but they are.  Injection molds have finite lifespans (admittedly in the 10's or even hundreds of thousands) but their longevity can be greatly affected by the types of plastic used in them.  Usually, the harder or more brittle the plastic, the rougher it is on the molds.

Molds are also sometimes constructed with a specific material in mind.  Some of the gating might not work well if the viscosity of the melted plastic is greater than what it is designed to use.  This probably won't be an issue, as I expect Nylon would be more viscous, but it's another unknown.

So it will probably boil down to whether they want to risk their molds, if they will work at all with the different material, and whether
there is a sufficient quantity to warrant the extra effort.

While they seem to be a company that will work with folks, as evidenced by the black player select buttons, this is really a much different scenario from the manufacturing side of things.

Keep your fingers crossed

RandyT

[shawnzilla]

Still waiting on an answer from IL. Another idea I thought of (I would require some help on this one) would be to get a member of BYOAC who is savvy with the Emachineshop software.

Basically, we could design the button (it is comprised of three parts I believe -- the plunger, the housing and the spring) in the emachinshop's cad software, and then price it out for the translucent materials.

RandyT or anyone, do you have any thoughts on this?

[tetsujin]

Hey,

I love this idea and I would definitely be interested in a control panel or two worth of buttons.  Personally the colors I'm most interested are green and yellow, red is good too.

However, there's another way of approaching this problem.

Translucent leaf-switch buttons are readily available.  Not that I want to use leaf switches...  but it seems as though one could build a microswitch housing to fit these buttons, right?  And since it'd just be housing a microswitch instead of a leaf switch it should be a whole lot smaller than a leaf switch housing.  That's my theory, anyway...

Of course, a horizontal microswitch button would definitely be easier to light (by mounting an LED right in the middle of the microswitch - since the actuator is off-center it's relatively easy) whereas for the leaf-switch button the actuator is in the middle so the light would probably have to be off-center...

This is just an idea.  I'll likely try to build such a thing myself to test the idea.  I want illuminated microswitch buttons but they have to be concave-style with a normal throw distance...   

[Xiaou2]

 Well,  I think that the clear plastics arnt good to use the
happs style holder - as its more prone to cracking.

  I also  personally would like a slightly smaller button than the
happs.  Not much, but just a tad.

  Ability to interface leaf and micros would be a huge plus.

 I just took the plunge and purchased a metal cutting lathe a short while ago  (9x20 -harbor freight)... however,  Im not yet knowledgable  on how to use it.
If/when i do... i will try to make custom buttons.   Hopefully out of clear plastic dowels... but not sure how well it will work that way.

 Btw - the current leaf styles have too long a throw.  I think this detracts from thier look and feel. (button top sticks up way too far)

[RayB]

it seems as though one could build a microswitch housing to fit these buttons, right?

Damn! That's some brilliant "outside the box" thinking there dude!
Such a holder would only need to be made in one generic color since it's not visible!!!

OK let's see who gets to the patent office first...   

[tetsujin]

it seems as though one could build a microswitch housing to fit these buttons, right?

Damn! That's some brilliant "outside the box" thinking there dude!

Well, the idea might not be so brilliant if
1: it won't work, or
2: the supply of translucent leaf-switches dries up.  (This seems like a distinct possibility...)

But it seems like it should work, and given the apparent lack of translucent buttons in the style I want...  (though this project seems to indicate that Wico used to carry them...) it might at least be a good temporary fix.  Having never even examined a leaf-style arcade button firsthand I can only speculate at the moment, and I'm still trying to figure out how I'd light the thing.  But I figure it's worth my time and money to try it.

If this bit with custom-manufacturing translucent buttons works out, though, I'm so there...

[shawnzilla]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know who is the actual manufacturer of leaf-switch buttons? Is it actually WICO?

[RandyT]

it seems as though one could build a microswitch housing to fit these buttons, right?

Damn! That's some brilliant "outside the box" thinking there dude!
Such a holder would only need to be made in one generic color since it's not visible!!!

OK let's see who gets to the patent office first...   

Heh.  I went down this road once already, but in the other direction.

The end result is, you still need to have an expensive injection mold made if you go with plastic, not to mention do all the engineering.

I tried the metal route, but without making stampings by the thousands (also tooling charges apply) you couldn't make an adapter for less than $3 each.  It's a hard sell to convince someone they need a $3 adapter to make $1 button do what they want and that's with a 0% profit margin

Some things just need to be done big if you want to do them at all.  Unfortunately, I face this every time I have an idea, and that ultimately ends up limiting what can be offered.  Point in case....Just spent $2500 for a custom run of parts that I have no idea will sell because I needed to make minimum orders or the manufacturer would have nothing to do with me.  Oh, and based on what I wanted, even that was a "favor"

RandyT