Author Topic: best 4-way, 8-way joysticks (Read 5351 times)

Nefesis · « **on:** June 11, 2004, 07:44:43 pm »

which joysticks are the best for either 4-way, 8-way, or 4-8-way switchable?

Apollo · « **Reply #1 on:** June 11, 2004, 07:50:33 pm »

LMAO!

jdfriesen · « **Reply #2 on:** June 11, 2004, 07:51:19 pm »

4/8 way switchable you've got to seriously consider the T-Stik Plus:
http://www.ultimarc.com/controls.html

Nefesis · « **Reply #3 on:** June 11, 2004, 08:47:22 pm »

i heard that for the t-stick plus, the ball-tops were a bit short. are the bat-shaped ones normal size? also, aren't the t-sticks plus noisy?

jdfriesen · « **Reply #4 on:** June 11, 2004, 10:32:10 pm »

The T-Stiks are microswitch based, so yes, they do make noise. Also, you are correct that they are a bit shorter than the standard Happ style.

Kremmit · « **Reply #5 on:** June 12, 2004, 12:26:34 am »

For 4-way sticks you've got:

Original Ms. Pac stick (leaf switch, shorter throw, non-standard cp mounting, no longer manufactured)

Wico 4-way ..not 4/8 way (leaf switch, longer throw, standard mounting, no longer manufactured)

Ms. Pac / Galaga reunion (micro switch, longer throw, standard mounting, currently sold by Happs)

Ms. Pac replacement (micro switch, shorter throw, non-standard cp mounting, currently sold by Happs)

Which is better? It depends on what you need.

First, you have to decide if you want the short throw or the long throw, and if you want short, is it worth the extra work mounting the thing?

Second, have to decide if you mind clicking. If you don't, then the micro-switch sticks are an option, and they're sure easier to get, since you can just hit http://www.happcontrols.com and order 'em up.

If you want non-clicking leaf switches, which are what you found in almost all 4-way games back when they still made 4-way games, then you've gotta work harder to get 'em. (possible sources: ebay, BYOAC buy/sell/trade forum, various net vendors, pulls from scrapped cabinets, local operators) They're not really that tough to find if it's what you want.

Personally, I won't use microswitch sticks. I'm too much of an old fuddy-duddy to convert (unless I'm playing old Nintendo titles. I did pick up some Vs. cab sticks for those

) As for the stick throw, I don't seem to care. Back in the day, I played on both types so much that they both feel natural to me, so it just doesn't matter.

Just a quick bit about 8-way sticks- you've got the same considerations listed above, but then add in Optical Switched sticks (Haps Perfect 360), Mechanical Rotary (Ikari), Optical Rotary (Blitz), Right/Left Rotary (Xybots)... and the list goes on; there are lots of types of 8-way sticks. Do you want ball or bat handles? Do you want a trigger? A thumb button on top? Do you want these extra functions? And do you wan't 'em in you primary sticks, or as separate options? Figure out which features you want and then you can narrow down your list.

Good luck!

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #6 on:** June 12, 2004, 09:17:37 am »

Wicos,
Wicos,
And Wicos in swappable or modular panels.

Nefesis · « **Reply #7 on:** June 12, 2004, 02:41:24 pm »

i don't mind thge clicking, and don't really care about thje throw. i never grew up around arcades, so most things will feel natural to me.

Sylentwulf · « **Reply #8 on:** June 12, 2004, 03:22:20 pm »

8-way fighting games, the Super seems to be the best.
4-way - I base my joystick comparisons on how well it does diagonals

I don't like leaf joys, so I bought the ultimate 4 way myself.

Kremmit · « **Reply #9 on:** June 13, 2004, 12:02:09 am »

Quote

i don't mind thge clicking, and don't really care about thje throw. i never grew up around arcades, so most things will feel natural to me.

Buy a T-Stick plus then. They're clicky, and definately have a different feel from the sticks in old cabs, both of which throw me off. But since those things don't matter to you, The T-stick is perfect, since you can get 8-way and true 4-way action in one stick. They're at least as well made as the Happs, probably better. BYOAC guru KevSteele has a really good review of the T-Stick plus here:
http://retroblast.com/reviews/joysticks/ultimarc_tstik.html

Order 'em here:
http://www.ultimarc.com/controls.html

Nefesis · « **Reply #10 on:** June 13, 2004, 06:30:46 pm »

ok. will get the t-sticks plus. probably bat handles. i'd had already read the review which is why i thought they were clicky. what color do you thiunk looks best with a stained wood cp?

independentthread · « **Reply #11 on:** June 13, 2004, 06:47:25 pm »

Not to sound like a @#$%@#$%@ but...HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE THE CLICK!? Arcades were built on the click!!! The click is classic!!! That's the whole reason I'm getting into this, I'm sick of the new school crap with no clicks!!!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled rant, already in progress.

Nefesis · « **Reply #12 on:** June 13, 2004, 07:07:06 pm »

thought the aracades had leaf joysticks which don't have as audible a click?

JoeB · « **Reply #13 on:** June 13, 2004, 08:01:10 pm »

Depends when you went to the arcades..

if you went in the early to mid 80's, then there were no clicks.

if you went from the late 80's to today, then there were a lot of clicks.

I went mostly in the mid 90's, while in University, and there were a LOT of clicks.

Magnet_Eye · « **Reply #14 on:** June 13, 2004, 08:51:25 pm »

CLICK THIS!

Spaced Invader · « **Reply #15 on:** June 14, 2004, 02:12:15 am »

Quote from: independentthread on June 13, 2004, 06:47:25 pm

Not to sound like a @#$%@#$%@ but...HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE THE CLICK!? Arcades were built on the click!!! The click is classic!!! That's the whole reason I'm getting into this, I'm sick of the new school crap with no clicks!!!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled rant, already in progress.

You're too young to know the click is evil...

Minwah · « **Reply #16 on:** June 14, 2004, 04:53:06 am »

I actually like the click...you *know* when the contact has been made. Not sure why I like that but I do

I was going to arcades in the mid-80's on, so I recall quite a lot of clicking going on at that time...

Gameboy.au · « **Reply #17 on:** June 14, 2004, 06:06:38 am »

Quote from: independentthread on June 13, 2004, 06:47:25 pm

Not to sound like a @#$%@#$%@ but...HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE THE CLICK!? Arcades were built on the click!!! The click is classic!!! That's the whole reason I'm getting into this, I'm sick of the new school crap with no clicks!!!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled rant, already in progress.

It's funny you konw, as the game that really got me into brawl games, Final Fight, had the loudest clicks on a joystick in the cabinet I played.....

megashock5 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 14, 2004, 02:32:06 pm »

What about the OmniStick Prodigy?

Anyone use it? I'm still trying to decide between this and the T-Stik Plus.

Please help! Any opinions are greatly appreciated!

Nefesis · « **Reply #19 on:** June 14, 2004, 03:07:46 pm »

where can you buy the omnistick prodigy?

megashock5 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 14, 2004, 03:20:55 pm »

www.groovygamegear.com

It looks pretty hot. 4-8way switchable like the T-Stik plus, but it's a switch on the top instead of the lift-turn method.

they also make a competitor to the iPac called the KeyWhiz

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #21 on:** June 14, 2004, 04:51:58 pm »

Quote from: megashock5 on June 14, 2004, 02:32:06 pm

What about the OmniStick Prodigy?

Anyone use it? I'm still trying to decide between this and the T-Stik Plus.

Please help! Any opinions are greatly appreciated!

I think I posted this somewhere else.

General comparisions - T-stick has shorter throw than the Prodigy's already short throw. I think T-Stick has greater spring pressure. T-Stick has louder clicks. I think T-Stick uses lever actuator microswitches, and I'm sure Prodigy uses standard (Tab) microswitches.

Other considerations - T-stick appears like any other joystick on the panel (nothing showing above the panel). Prodigy has a lever to switch positions, which means you can tell just by looking whether the stick is in 4 or 8 way mode. Prodigy requires a 5-inch square for clearance for the mounting plate. Unique Prodigy handle combines the features of ball-top and bat top sticks, but the sticks are also offered in ball-top versions.

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #22 on:** June 14, 2004, 05:08:58 pm »

Quote from: independentthread on June 13, 2004, 06:47:25 pm

Not to sound like a @#$%@#$%@ but...HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE THE CLICK!? Arcades were built on the click!!! The click is classic!!! That's the whole reason I'm getting into this, I'm sick of the new school crap with no clicks!!!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled rant, already in progress.

Have you ever heard of PacMan?
Ms. Pacman?
Defender?
Robotron?
Joust?
Tron?
How about pretty much any game that came out before 1985, and wasn't made by Nintendo?

The arcades were BUILT on GOOD gameplay, and leafswitches.

They DIED on games that clicked!

JoeB · « **Reply #23 on:** June 15, 2004, 11:51:36 am »

The click had nothing to do with the death the of arcades...

Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft were the biggest cause.

RayB · « **Reply #24 on:** June 15, 2004, 01:53:19 pm »

Does anyone know if you can easily replace the microswitches on the T-Stik with leafswitches? That would be the best of both worlds.

Stingray · « **Reply #25 on:** June 15, 2004, 02:33:21 pm »

Quote from: megashock5 on June 14, 2004, 02:32:06 pm

What about the OmniStick Prodigy?

Anyone use it? I'm still trying to decide between this and the T-Stik Plus.

Please help! Any opinions are greatly appreciated!

I've got a prodigy and I love it. Takes less than a second to switch from 8 way to 4 way. Has a nice short throw which I like. It has microswitches, but they're not terribly loud. It's a great joystick IMO.

-S

ChadTower · « **Reply #26 on:** June 15, 2004, 02:42:03 pm »

Seeing as how you can game until you die with either stick, it looks pretty win-win to me whichever you order. Flip a coin and order it up.

Paul Olson · « **Reply #27 on:** June 16, 2004, 12:51:57 pm »

The T-stick plus is excellent for 4/8 way switching, but I don't like the feel with the switches that come with it. I replaced them with Cherrys, and it is fantastic!!!

I still can't get friends to use it on fighters though, they like the Happ Competions.

Paul

Knievel · « **Reply #28 on:** June 16, 2004, 01:34:48 pm »

I vote for the OmniStick's. I've got 3 in my panel, 1 being a dedicated 4-way. The 4-way is AMAZING for PAC games, the short throw gives you incredible control with a ball-top feel.

I tried switching it with an NOS Wico 4-way leaf and it just didn't compare, it went back in the box.
Never tried the Prodigy but if you're short on CP space it looks like a good option. It's actually cheaper to buy 2 regular Omni's though and set one for 8-way and one for 4-way if you've got the room.

jcoleman · « **Reply #29 on:** June 16, 2004, 01:39:03 pm »

Paul,

Did you use regular Cherry switches, or did you get the type with the actuators? I've got extra standard Cherry switches begging to go on my t-stik plus, but don't want to put them on there to find that they don't hit just right on the diagonals over time.

Thanks

Coleman

Paul Olson · « **Reply #30 on:** June 16, 2004, 01:51:02 pm »

Coleman,

They have the actuators. I took them from another joystick I had laying around. I'm not sure where to buy them, but I would like to have more on hand. It can't hurt to try the standard switches though, if they don't work well, it's only 4 screws to change back.

It is definately worth going with Cherrys, it feels like a completely different stick. It still has the short throw, but it feels looser and quicker.

Paul

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #31 on:** June 16, 2004, 02:53:06 pm »

Bob Roberts has the Cherry switches with the actuators on them.
I think they are $12.50 for 10 of them, IIRC.

Darkstalker · « **Reply #32 on:** June 16, 2004, 05:02:34 pm »

Won't the leaf style switches need adjustment every so often? An alignment change every 400 Pacman games or 25 Karate Champs, whichever comes first?

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #33 on:** June 16, 2004, 07:44:12 pm »

25 games is WAY under.
They would never have used them in the arcades if that were the case.

I'd guess, with an average amount of play, they shouldn't need adjustment more than once or twice a year on a home cabinet, if that.

independentthread · « **Reply #34 on:** July 11, 2004, 03:25:38 am »

I completely lost track of this thread, beings how my internet connection has been %#$& for the past month, and I've been working on my cab...But as far as all of you people that decided to bash me about the click...

1. "too young to remember..."
Actually I remember the little cone shaped buttons used for player start on Centipede that had their own very distinct clicking sound.
2. "leaf switch joysticks don't click..."
So in other words, what you're trying to say is that the old games didn't have buttons? Buttons never click, do they!?
3. "Have you ever heard pf Pacman? Ms. Pacman?"
A better question is how you never noticed the fact that most of the people who used to play Pacman and Ms. Pacman used to slam the joysticks in each direction so fast that, besides almost breaking the ball of in their hand, essentially made a clicking sound.

So to anyone who decided to jump me for my comment, you can click THAT.

Grauwulf · « **Reply #35 on:** July 11, 2004, 08:38:00 am »

Well I'm not *suffering* for space on my CP, but I think I'm going to use the Ultimate T-Stick for my panel. I looked at the Omni-stick Prodigy, it's a neat design, but I don;t like the idea of anything extra protruding from the panel. Also you have to surface mount it which IMHO will distract from the look of the panel.

My question is, are there any multiplayer games that use 2 4-way sticks?

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #36 on:** July 11, 2004, 04:28:31 pm »

Karate Champ uses 4 of them, and Assault uses EDIT: 2 as well (trigger sticks).

Those are the only ones I know of that you really CAN'T use 8-ways on, and have them work properly.

If you use 8-ways on either game, you will hit HUGE dead spots where the controls just don't send any data--bringing your player to a quick halt until you get back where you would be with a 4-way.

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #37 on:** July 11, 2004, 04:47:54 pm »

Quote from: independentthread on July 11, 2004, 03:25:38 am

Quote

1. "too young to remember..."
Actually I remember the little cone shaped buttons used for player start on Centipede that had their own very distinct clicking sound.

You get 1 click per game.
The FIRE button was a leaf button, and didn't click.

Quote

2. "leaf switch joysticks don't click..."
So in other words, what you're trying to say is that the old games didn't have buttons? Buttons never click, do they!?

The buttons on CLASSIC (old-school) games did NOT click in and of themselves--they were leaf switch buttons.
Therefore the quest for non-clicking controls is not a "new-school" thing that should be put down as non-classic.

You are the one who started the old-school vs. new-school rant with THIS post.

Quote

Not to sound like a @#$%@#$%@ but...HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE THE CLICK!? Arcades were built on the click!!! The click is classic!!! That's the whole reason I'm getting into this, I'm sick of the new school crap with no clicks!!!

You can't get mad at people for ranting back, when you are trying to claim "old school" superiority, using "new school" technology to make your case.

Quote

3. "Have you ever heard pf Pacman? Ms. Pacman?"
A better question is how you never noticed the fact that most of the people who used to play Pacman and Ms. Pacman used to slam the joysticks in each direction so fast that, besides almost breaking the ball of in their hand, essentially made a clicking sound.

Again, those were not clicks made by the controllers.
Those sticks were leaf-switch sticks, and did NOT click.

Quote

So to anyone who decided to jump me for my comment, you can click THAT.

For me, it's not about the click/not-click issue, but rather about what works well.

The sticks that you are probably most familiar with, given that you feel the arcades were "built on clicks" are the Happs crap that eventually became standard on most machines.
Those sticks suck from a players standpoint, and only BECAME standard as arcades shifted from a manned operation to a route operation.

When the arcades actually had a tech on staff, adjusting controls, etc... was viewed as a necessary evil, and controls were fixed quickly and efficiently to keep the game operational.
Wicos were the standard at this time because they were durable, and worked better, from a player standpoint, than their microswitch counterparts.
This made the operator more money because people wanted to play them.

Once the shift was made to a route system, the sticks began to be replaced with microswitches because they didn't require as much maintenance.
There's nothing worse than coming back a week after a control failure to find out your machine hasn't been making ANY money since you were last there.

Minwah · « **Reply #38 on:** July 11, 2004, 04:58:24 pm »

My Galaga cocktail from '81 has a leaf switch button...but a microswitch 2-way stick (not the microswitches most commonly found now, I believe they are called subminature (sp) or something)...

Just thought I'd lob that in

pcolson: did you have to cut down the actuators on your Cherry microswitches? I took some from a Happ Super to fit onto my T-Stik, but had to cut off part of the actuator (they are longer on Supers). The difference is amazing tho

Kremmit · « **Reply #39 on:** July 11, 2004, 05:51:58 pm »

Quote from: NoOne=NBA= on July 11, 2004, 04:28:31 pm

Karate Champ uses 4 of them, and Assault uses 4 as well (including top-fire ones).

I agree with you about Karate Champ- but I thought Assault was 1 player at a time only, and therefore would only require two sticks.


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