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| Post-apocalyptic arcade (and AI art) |
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| RandyT:
--- Quote from: Zebidee on September 14, 2022, 08:25:10 pm ---To me, all AI art always lacks something, something that is difficult to define. --- End quote --- If I didn't tell you that AI was the artist, I'll bet you would still be looking for that "deeper meaning" and probably find one. Art is in the eye of the beholder and the beholder seldom gets the meaning of the artist correct. But if you did, then it probably isn't "great art" as it is meant to evoke a personal response. AI art would not be possible were it not for the collective works of incredible human artists. It is a reflection of them and us. Maybe we should talk about whether art can be accidental and/or incidental. I would argue that most art is. Artists tend to work from inspiration and what is inspiration if not something which is incidental to the artist? How much art exists which started as one direction but went in another as the artist progressed further into the work? When using AI, the user tends to take the role of an "art director". Instead of having a team of artists with limited styles and abilities who listen really well, you have access to hundreds or more with their own styles which can be blended together. But they sometimes (often) do as they wish. As this technology is in very early stages, I expect it to become easier to wrangle the AI as time goes on. But this deviation from explicit direction can sometimes lead to very interesting and compelling works. As in real life, it is up to the "art director" to decide if the deviation is an upgrade to the vison or idea. If so, it becomes an improvement, otherwise it is simply discarded and "the team" is instructed to "try again". But in some cases, the resulting piece is able to stand on it's own as something equally compelling, even if unintended. The real artists out there are frightened, and justifiably so. Right now, it's difficult to control details and absolute direction. Some things also just turn out far more abstract and inaccurate than what would be expected by someone commissioning a specific piece of work. But again, we are in the fledgling stage and as the AI learns more pieces of the puzzle, even that will be possible. Then the artists may need to find a different trade. But honestly, the very talented probably have little to fear. I remember when vinyl cutters hit the market in the sign trade. They were and still are very popular. They deliver near perfection and allow untrained individuals to offer and create signage, unfortunately to the detriment of the "art" as many are terrible. But there are those who still demand hand-lettered painted signs from those who are very skilled. We are about to be awash in imagery. Some amazing, but a lot which is just crap. It will be up to the "art directors" and artists who use AI as a starting point now to create high-quality works. I'll end this with another interesting piece I like. See if you can extract some meaning from it :). |
| Zebidee:
--- Quote from: RandyT on September 16, 2022, 10:58:19 am ---If I didn't tell you that AI was the artist, I'll bet you would still be looking for that "deeper meaning" and probably find one. Art is in the eye of the beholder and the beholder seldom gets the meaning of the artist correct. But if you did, then it probably isn't "great art" as it is meant to evoke a personal response. --- End quote --- Like you say, art is in the eye of the beholder. For this reason it is impossible to interpret the art incorrectly. As to the meaning of the artist, often they don't know it themselves. Often they just make something to express an inner idea they don't have words for. Often they don't know what it means. Sometimes they are hoping for insights from an audience. I fully agree that art can be accidental or incidental to what the artist intended. I also don't think that human artists, at least those with any talent, have anything to fear. I like your analogy of the user being the "art director". I would just call them the artist. They are the ones choosing the variables and parameters for the algorithm. They are the ones cherry-picking the best results from the outputs. The AI is simply another artist's tool, like a paintbrush, spraygun or potter's wheel. --- Quote ---I'll end this with another interesting piece I like. See if you can extract some meaning from it :). --- End quote --- Thanks for asking. It is somewhat interesting, yes. I see the parameters for the algorithm fairly clearly. I see the limitations of the AI too, for example in terms of depth of experience and interpretations. Maybe a deeper "skim" might make me feel that more. I notice that all these cabs, and in the pics earlier, seem to lack control interfaces. Maybe gamers of the future don't need joysticks and trackballs, but seems like an oversight. Some of the cabs look like a mish-mash of video game and pinball. None of the game names are legible, nor are the designs distinctively recognisable. This adds to my feeling that the image is a skim-sample of random impressions. There is definitely a "fantasy" input to this image. I might draw a connection between the fantasy of arcade games and the actual "fantasy" genre, but not sure I see anything intended there. Alluding to what you mentioned before, one of the most interesting parts of the image, to me, is how the grass from outside seems to penetrate inside the window, for a short distance. My human mind chooses to interpret this as symbolising a blending between the fantasy in the game and the fantasy just outside, with the person as the interface. So you might interpret a blending of human perception, fantasy, reality and gaming. I know this is probably accidental, which is great. On the other hand it may simply be reflecting the parameters fed into the algorithm. Which is somehow less great, but still OK. Randomly meaningful art is still art. Windows are often used to symbolise different things, including reality and possibilities, also as windows into the soul itself. Maybe the AI deliberately chose it for this reason. Or an input parameter. Or maybe it is an accident. Maybe it doesn't matter. In some ways I see the different elements as represented in a clumsy, cliched way. On the other hand, I do like this blending, accidental or not. |
| RandyT:
--- Quote from: Zebidee on September 16, 2022, 12:38:06 pm ---Windows are often used to symbolise different things, including reality and possibilities, also as windows into the soul itself. Maybe the AI deliberately chose it for this reason. Or an input parameter. Or maybe it is an accident. Maybe it doesn't matter. --- End quote --- You are missing the forest by too much focus on the branches of the trees. The machines are merely representative examples of a class of device, i.e. you pretty much understand what they are, so their inaccuracies aren't of import. One could, however, interpret some of those inaccuracies as intentional and apply a reasoning for them. Ambiguity isn't always a bad thing. I believe the AI did select most of the elements intentionally, including the one you pointed out. The decorations on the walls, the state of the machines, the stuff on the floor all have contribution to the "story". There is even a surprising subliminal element to the piece which I have to believe is purely accidental. It does, however, contribute to the over-arching theme if "seen" in a certain way by the viewer. |
| Xiaou2:
--- Quote ---As to the meaning of the artist, often they don't know it themselves. Often they just make something to express an inner idea they don't have words for. Often they don't know what it means. Sometimes they are hoping for insights from an audience. --- End quote --- As an Artist myself (and also, knowing many other artists) ..I dont agree with that. Countless artists works, are in fact, very well planned out... with regards to both Composition, and their intended Meanings. If you are speaking about so called "Modern Art" ...that stuff is largely a scam, to Launder large sums of Money. At best, there are some randomly modern art pieces, that are just pleasing to the eye.. that have Zero intention at all. (And really... Whos going to interpret paint splashes, as having some sort of deep inner meaning?!) Are there cases of actual pieces where the artist had zero story to tell, and the items in the painting could be interpreted as various stories? Sure... but, IMO, such creations are rare, compared to Intentionally driven art. Now... There are some artists out there, that intentionally hide things within their works, and they refuse to reveal the true intended meanings, for whatever reasons they have for doing so. Some of them, are cultists.. and it relates to secret teachings / meanings...etc. --- Quote ---to express an inner idea they don't have words for --- End quote --- Who doesnt have words to describe something? Other than a person with a limited vocabulary... When you paint a facial expression... that very expression, can be Happy, Sad, Somber, Angry...etc. As they say... A Picture is worth a Thousand Words. Its a way to express things without having to use language... but... that said... anyone with language can describe what they are seeing... and what they are feeling from seeing it. Such as, for example.. seeing a painting of a person being impaled via "Scorpions" Rope Dart weapon. Music is actually far more difficult and abstract, to describe...IMO. I mean, how do you describe the wailing riffs of Van Halens guitar? Or the ever changing landscape of a Classical Orchestral piece? Yes, you can say that parts of musical pieces could be described as: Aggressive, Fast, cheerful, heavy, sad, ethereal, magical.. but in total... there are certain emotions that you "Feel", that cant be completely put into words. Where as with a painting, you can see, and easily describe: "Woman petting a Cat, as the sun is setting, on the porch". And all of the related feelings and descriptions, related to this very normal human event. We know how such a thing would feel (as long as you are not a cat hater, or had never petted a single animal in your life). But with music... it has no exacting relation to anything to tie it into. Its very abstract... and yet... can easily represent certain ranges and ways of feeling. |
| leapinlew:
--- Quote from: RandyT on September 16, 2022, 10:58:19 am ---I'll end this with another interesting piece I like. See if you can extract some meaning from it :). --- End quote --- Clearly it represents that woman, during the golden era of video games were shunned. The left arm of this woman is deformed and worthless in a world dominated by joysticks. The games are devoid of controls to represent the futility to even try and the absolute certainty of failure. The only escape is into the gray unknown. Clearly... |
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