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| Dawgz Rule:
--- Quote from: Zebidee on September 06, 2022, 11:25:33 pm --- As Howard and Danny have already pointed out, it is pointless to reason with such people. The climate change denialists have already made up their minds and will refuse to adapt to new inputs, even when provided with mountains of evidence. --- End quote --- What evidence? Do you realize that despite the "overwhelming evidence" that there hasn't been a single instance of the climate alarmists being right? If you believe otherwise, please share. Perhaps the reason why is that most of these "predictions" are based on faulty IPCC CO2 climate models. It is very easy to slap a label on others as "climate deniers" because it puts it in a nice container where you can't discuss facts. I don't deny climate change is happening. I deny that the principal driver in climate change is man. I also deny that there is anything of substance that is going to change that trajectory as compared to the influence of the sun on our climate. Agreed, the average planet temperature has risen 0.8 degrees celsius since 1850. Along with that, CO2 emissions have increased. However, to say one is the cause of the other is a hypothesis that has yet to be rooted in scientific fact. This is especially so if you consider that a mere change in the sun's energy of 0.01% would have a much greater impact on CO2 levels on our planet. That aside, if you really want to do something about our planet, the focus needs to be on China and India. Emissions in the US have been steadily declining since 2010 or 2011. Again, it does us no good to purchase wind turbines and solar panels from China, which are being produced via coal. |
| Zebidee:
--- Quote from: Dawgz Rule on September 07, 2022, 07:30:08 am ---What evidence? Do you realize that despite the "overwhelming evidence" that there hasn't been a single instance of the climate alarmists being right? If you believe otherwise, please share. Perhaps the reason why is that most of these "predictions" are based on faulty IPCC CO2 climate models. --- End quote --- First, you should convincingly prove your theory about the Sun causing all the issues. If the evidence is so obvious to convince you, surely it can't be that hard. When I was still in denial, or at least feeling agnostic, I wanted to believe that it was about sun cycles, or maybe some other cycle. But the evidence just didn't stack up. On the other hand, the case for it being a man-made crisis is overwhelming. You just need to open your eyes to see it. Some people have talked about "follow-the-money". Well, the big money has been in the fossil industry. These are the people behind the real conspiracy theory, that man-made climate change is a lie, that something else like sun cycles is the culprit. Just like tobacco industry, they will do anything to remain in business. Instead of boring you with an essay that you will simply deny and refute with no basis in fact, I'll give you a video to help stimulate your thought processes about how scientists can analyse the same data and come to conclusions. It may also stimulate something else in you - she is pretty hot, at least IMO. So worth watching for that as well. |
| Zebidee:
Indulging you here, as I am not in the business of turning skeptics around (mostly fruitless due to blinkered views, as noted above) I found this infographic article very convincing about a) the very real man-made contributions to carbon in our atmosphere, and b) how little time we have left. Summary is: we have squandered our carbon "budget", time has run out. It is somewhat Australia focused, but what do you expect. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-15/acting-now-can-buy-us-time-on-climate-change/100020944 |
| Dawgz Rule:
I don't doubt that there are man-made contributions to carbon dioxide emissions. However, you fail to recognize that it is widely accepted that the earth also goes through natural climate cycles that are well documented. By cycles, that means periods of heating and cooling. These cycles are both long and short-term in nature, and include: - Milankovitch Cycles (Millenial) - Century Scale Climate Cycles - Interannual and Decadal Climate Cycles Other contributors include: - Solar Cycles (the sun's magnetic field flips every 11 years causing this) - Volcanic Sulfur - Orbital Wobble - Short-term climate fluctuations such as circulation changes in the Pacific and the Atlantic Ocean In my humble opinion, I can't help but believe that these have significantly more impact than man-made influences. Again though, that doesn't mean we shouldn't be good stewards of our planet. At the end of the day, climate activists fail to provide a solution beyond "renewables" and fail to recognize the impact the creation of those renewables is having on the very environment they are fighting to protect. |
| Zebidee:
Dawgz, I am aware of all those factors. None of that adds up. The cycles you mention don't add up to what we are seeing now. Sun activity cycles (as you noted, over 11 years) do not match the rest of the data. Orbital wobble? You mean like the 26000 years one? Where is the connection to the long term climate change data. Short-term cycles in the oceans? Sure, they bring short-term climate condition disasters like droughts and floods. I am Australian - we get drought, bushfire, floods, drought, drought, bushfire, drought, bushfire, floods floods, then drought drought and more bushfire. They are getting worse. A lot worse. Australian skeptics are starting to believe in climate change because they see it in their backyards. Cycles come and go. What you need to measure is average ocean temperatures, which are rising. High ocean temperatures drive more cyclical activity. Volcanic sulphur? There has been no special "recent" volcanic activity, beyond the norm over millions of years, to account for any of the climate change data. Which brings me to high and rising CO2 levels, which some seem to think is due to volcanos. It isn't. There is no connection at all between the normal levels of volcanic activity seen over past centuries, and the CO2 levels. Nothing else on your list accounts for the CO2 levels. Sun cycles and orbital wobbles or whatever won't have the same impact on measurable CO2 levels in our atmosphere, which have been steadily rising since long before the industrial revolution - when they started taking off. Now, if you take 5 minutes to follow the article I linked earlier, you can see how we are pumping CO2 into the atmosphere like never before. It didn't come from nowhere, sun spots, ocean cycles or even volcanos. It is there because we put it there, and the climate models are correctly predicting the temperature rises that we are experiencing already. |
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