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| RandyT:
--- Quote from: fallacy on September 01, 2022, 10:58:08 pm ---Lets be real, China is going to kill us all. They pollute more than every country combined, they are killing and fishing the oceans bear. Their country is bigger than the US and they managed to kill every single wild animal to extinction. There are no birds in China? They killed all of them. I hear they are trying to colonize Africa to steal their resources at the moment. They won't stop until nothing is left. --- End quote --- My take on that situation is China is getting a pass. Not because anyone particularly likes it, but because they have become the defacto manufacturing hub of the world by their own design. Slave and low-wage labor, lax-to-non-existent environmental control, iron-fisted government control over production with subsidization to meet their ends even if working at a loss. Basically, everything we can't or won't do to be able to compete with them. They are in-it-to-win-it and don't care how long it takes. At some point, the costs will go higher on their products, and we are already seeing some of that. But it's not entirely their fault. Westerners are consumers, first and foremost. Every time we buy some imported trinket or gadget from a massive Amazon warehouse, it inches them forward. But it's not all bad for us, at least in the short term. The low-cost and availability of those items has enriched the lives of millions world-wide. Even our poorest live better than Kings and Queens of old. It's easy to say "buy only American", but quite another to do it. The decline of western manufacturing brought about mostly by the costs to sustain it, has led to us having few if any other options. Few will choose to pay more for something for the sake of an ideology, because doing so will have a direct impact on their quality of life. The folks in power know all of this already. We've not lost yet, but I'm not sure we have the temerity as a people anymore to take up the fight. So don't worry about where your e-bike comes from. --- Quote from: pbj on September 02, 2022, 12:16:09 pm --- So brave. --- End quote --- I was part of the "war machine" at one time in my life, so it has meaning to me. It's been there for close to 20 years and it didn't seem to make much of a difference in the world. But maybe the next time it gets pasted onto an image on the internet it'll be "the time" that it does. :cheers: |
| danny_galaga:
--- Quote from: fallacy on September 01, 2022, 11:11:12 pm ---Vietnam --- End quote --- Ha, ya got me there 😄 |
| danny_galaga:
Example 3 Person A- the evidence has been overwhelming for decades that humans are causing climate change. Person B- the jury is still out on climate change. Funny how the jury seems most out in countries that have a large fossil fuel industry. Like Australia, Canada USA Russia etc. A good example of how the 'jury is out' (which is not a thing in science) is the difference between Fox News in Australia and Fox News UK. In Australia, according to Fix News, anything to do with climate change must be a socialist conspiracy. In the UK, not only is Fox News on board with the reality of climate change, they even have a climate change desk! |
| RandyT:
--- Quote from: danny_galaga on September 05, 2022, 05:54:59 pm ---A good example of how the 'jury is out' (which is not a thing in science)... --- End quote --- It absolutely is a thing in science. It's "shorthand" for saying that there is no consensus. In fact, the "jury is out" on a lot of what we consider scientific endeavors. Cosmology is a glaring example. Honest cosmologists admit that we know AT THE MOST, about 15% of what makes the Universe "tick." The "Big Bang" is treated as fact by many, even though we cannot, nor will we ever be able to conduct experiments which can accurately test the theory, and occasionally new discoveries and theories pop up to rattle it's foundation. We can only observe remnants and draw conclusions about a past event we can never re-create or witness first-hand. Everything we think we know as fact is based on laws of physics and our observation of predictable and reproducible behaviors. We don't even know if the laws of physics as we understand them today, were even applicable to that event. But that doesn't prevent us from trying to use them to explain it. But here's a fun fact. Those who subscribe to "global warming", "climate change", (insert next scary term here) seem to be chalking the cause up to increased greenhouse gasses (co2, methane, etc.) in the atmosphere. Even though the catastrophic events linked to those in the past have taken between 20,000 and 150,000 years (our best guesses) to manifest, few seem to be concerned that we are basing conclusions on a segment of time 1/866th of that period (averaged) where we have been tracking temperature. We also have little clue as to the swings in temperatures over the time it took to get there. But here's the real problem. Every living creature on this planet is a CO2/methane manufacturing machine. Me, you, your kids, your dog, even your goldfish. In the last 200 years, the global human population has gone from 1 Billion people to right around 8 Billion. You can probably imagine the resulting increased populations of animals as companions or as sources of food in relation to those humans. Unabated, this number is expected to rise to over 11 billion by the year 2100. The planet is in no danger from this or further increases. It is a self-correcting system and will do what it always does when things get out of balance. When the time is right, the earth will shed us, as it has done with countless other species, and something different will take our place when conditions allow it to flourish as we have. And it will do the same to them. But make no mistake. This "climate change" movement is a de-population movement, just by a different name. That means YOU and your offspring are the problem and have to go. If you are fine with that, then by all means, rail away. Just be sure that you understand the ramifications and that a few natural occurrences (volcanic eruptions, oceanic methane releases, increased solar events, etc.) might just undo ten-fold any tiny thing you might accomplish to help stave it off. In the meantime, you might want to get started on that plants and bugs diet so you can start doing your part. Maybe eat your pets first to get things kickstarted. :) --- Quote ---is the difference between Fox News in Australia and Fox News UK. In Australia, according to Fix News, anything to do with climate change must be a socialist conspiracy. In the UK, not only is Fox News on board with the reality of climate change, they even have a climate change desk! --- End quote --- Corporate news media sways in the winds of the hysterical masses. They follow anything which they believe will feed their bottom lines, and that changes with geographic location and market conditions. It's the reason you really shouldn't listen to any of them with anything other than an educated and critical ear. |
| danny_galaga:
The problem is you have scientists relevant to the field saying we are changing the climate, and then other experts offered up as an equally viable alternative theory. But those other experts are quite often involved in the industries that stand the most to lose from any action to reduce human created greenhouse gases. My partner is a denier like you and I don't know how many times I've heard a climate 'expert' on the wretched radio station she listens to. They do a lot of 'appeal to authority ' . A lot of the 'experts' are geologists. And when you google their names, surprise surprise they work for, or consult for coal mining companies. You said earlier 'follow the money'. Does that not count for 'researchers' who work for the fossil fuel industry? I once heard one of these geologists say that volcanoes put out way more CO2 than humans. This is nonsense. The average listener of that station would be thinking "well he's a geologist, he should know'. You know who knows? A VULCANologist. When it comes to knowledge of volcanoes, the opinions of those two experts does not have equal weight. Interestingly, those radio shows Never have a climate scientist as a guest. That would break down the denial web in one hour. Many fossil fuel companies even use the same consultants. My partner is smarter than me, and I bet you are too, but that didn't make you immune from the crooked reasoning being peddled by those lobbyists. It's the same technique the tobacco lobby used. In fact one of the big ones, the Heartland Institute, was formed to lobby for tobacco AND oil. The constant barrage of side arguments that are not science sows doubt in the public mind. Like tobacco, they frame it as a question of freedom etc. But science isn't a question of freedom. That's another matter. So is what you do with the knowledge that we are making the world warmer. |
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