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Arcade Spinner Games and MAME Sensitivity Settings
KenToad:
--- Quote from: PL1 on December 11, 2020, 05:14:19 pm ---
--- Quote from: KenToad on December 11, 2020, 02:21:49 pm ---Cruis’n USA
Final Lap 2
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Correct. These games used a potentiometer for steering.
--- Quote from: KenToad on December 11, 2020, 02:21:49 pm ---Road Blasters
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This is a unique controller that doesn't fully match either category, but is a closer fit with 360 degree wheels.
It does have a physically limited range of rotation, but unlike other "270 degree" wheels, it uses an optical encoder for steering (see page 27 of the manual here) instead of a potentiometer.
This game does not work properly when using a potentiometer control like an analog joystick (i.e. 270 degree wheel), but it works just fine with an optical control like a spinner/mouse (i.e. 360 degree wheel) -- maybe I'm missing something in the setup. :dunno
--- Quote from: KenToad on December 11, 2020, 02:21:49 pm ---Chase HQ
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This game used an optical wheel (see page 23 of the manual here), but it appears to play OK with either analog or optical controls.
--- Quote from: KenToad on December 11, 2020, 02:21:49 pm ---Over Drive
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Looks like it used a potentiometer for steering.
As of MAME 0.220 it's still red-flagged as "not working" and the graphics are total garbage. Not sure if you want to include it on your list. :puke
Scott
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Thanks for the reply, Scott. My point was that none of the listed games are 360 wheels because they are limited to around 270 degrees in their movements and have centering springs. Road Blasters, in particular, may technically be a spinner, but it plays like crap without the ability to center the wheel automatically, not to mention the resistance from the springs making precise movement in the turns easier.
Chase HQ may have used an optical wheel, but again it plays like crap without the limit of 270-ish degrees and the centering springs.
I won't be including any of those 270 degree games in my spinner steering wheel list because they aren't designed to play with a 360 degree wheel, so they don't really work with a free spinning device. I was just pointing out that they don't fit in the 360 degree section on that specific page.
A lot of the old spinner games used free spinning pots, instead of optical spinners, and MAME seems to handle them just fine. Just regarding playability, I thought the physical restriction was more important than the specific type of analog device???
DarthMarino:
I like how Konami GT feels with a setting of 15 on my Turbo Twist 2 and 25 on my GRS spinner. That would make my suggested "original" turn count to be 180.
PL1:
--- Quote from: KenToad on November 23, 2020, 03:55:04 pm ---*Edit* I should add that I'm not including games like Road Blasters. It had a free spinning pot,
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Sorry, Ken, but Road Blasters used an optical encoder wheel (i.e. same as a 360 degree wheel/spinner/trackball), not a "free spinning pot" for steering.
The only game that I can think of that used a free spinning pot is Omega Race.
- It used a spinner assembly containing a free spinning pot and an encoder that converted the analog voltage from the wiper to 8-bit 6-bit gray code.
You can see the Road Blasters optical encoder wheel on pages 27 and 45 of the manual. (Encoder Disc P/N 044024-01)
https://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-videogames/R/Road%20BlastersReduced.pdf
Picture of the Encoder Disc.
On pages 21 and 22 of the schematics, you can see the optical board.
https://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-videogames/R/Road%20Blasters%20Schematic%20Package.pdf
--- Quote from: KenToad on December 11, 2020, 06:20:12 pm ---My point was that none of the listed games are 360 wheels because they are limited to around 270 degrees in their movements and have centering springs.
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--- Quote from: KenToad on December 11, 2020, 06:20:12 pm ---Just regarding playability, I thought the physical restriction was more important than the specific type of analog device???
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Pretty sure that this is the basic reasoning for sorting games into the wiki lists for 360 and 270 degree wheels:
- 360 degree wheels use optical circuits that output two data lines that the optical encoder translates into relative position changes when you turn the wheel. (i.e. turn the optical encoder wheel clockwise from quadrature phase 1 to phase 3, the optical encoder sends a command to move two steps right)
- 270 degree wheels use potentiometers that output a voltage that the analog encoder translates into absolute position information. (i.e. When the pot outputs 4.5v, the wiper is positioned 90% of the way from the ground end of the resistive element to the 5v end of the resistive element and a 10-bit A/D encoder will report the position as "1110011001" binary = "921" decimal -- 90% of the way from 0 - 1023.)
Physical restriction is one consideration that affects playability, but a potentially larger consideration is how the game code handles inputs.
Sometimes MAME does a good job translating a different control type in a way that works well with the game code, but sometimes it doesn't.
- Using a trackball instead of an analog flight yoke with Star Wars seems to be OK.
- Using a 270 wheel instead of a 360 wheel with Pole Position just won't work right.
--- Quote from: KenToad on December 11, 2020, 06:20:12 pm ---Road Blasters, in particular, may technically be a spinner, but it plays like crap without the ability to center the wheel automatically, not to mention the resistance from the springs making precise movement in the turns easier.
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--- Quote from: KenToad on December 11, 2020, 06:20:12 pm ---I was just pointing out that they don't fit in the 360 degree section on that specific page.
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. . . and I'm just pointing out that Road Blasters doesn't appear to play properly using an analog (270 wheel/analog joystick/analog flight yoke potentiometer-style) control, but it does appear to play properly using an optical (360 wheel/mouse/spinner/trackball-style) control.
- As I mentioned earlier, there might be settings that make potentiometer controls work well with this game (please share if you know), but the defaults cause it to spin out of control with just a slight nudge. :banghead:
If a game plays better with one type of control than another, shouldn't the game be included on the list for the better controller? :D
Scott
EDIT: Omega Race used 6-bit gray code, not 8-bit. :embarassed:
KenToad:
Avalanche, Clowns, and Warlords are more examples of games that used free spinning pots. There were others that I found as I read manuals for researching this project. It didn't seem relevant to record at the time, as they tended to control fine with my spinners.
I edited my statement on Road Blasters to clarify that it used an optical encoder wheel. Thanks for that correction.
I'll give Road Blasters another try. It seemed to play fine with my analog joysticks last I checked. *Edit* It was fixed in MAME: "0.222: Fixed Road Blasters steering wheel does not auto center. The RoadBlasters steering wheel is very much like the Star Wars yoke, without the vertical (Y) axis [Curseur, Tafoid]. Replaced Dial controller with Stick."
Yet another reason for me to upgrade my MAME to the latest. :cheers:
KenToad:
--- Quote from: DarthMarino on December 11, 2020, 07:54:46 pm ---I like how Konami GT feels with a setting of 15 on my Turbo Twist 2 and 25 on my GRS spinner. That would make my suggested "original" turn count to be 180.
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Thanks! I'm getting inspired to finally update MAME so I can give all these newly fixed games a spin.