Arcade Collecting > Arcade1Up & Similar
Battlezone controls
Mike A:
I hope to someday have as much hair on my chest as you do Jennifer.
PL1:
--- Quote from: jennifer on July 15, 2020, 06:46:04 am ---the analog Happ sticks although a different style do incorporate 5k pots on a 4 way, cant imagine why that wouldn't run original hardware
--- End quote ---
There are similarities between the Happ Heavy Duty Analog here and the Happ Heavy Duty 8-way here, but the phrase "5k pots on a 4 way" makes no sense from a mechanical or electrical perspective. :dizzy:
- The bases for the analog and 8-way sticks are very different.
- I've never seen or heard of an analog stick with 4-way restriction used on original arcade hardware. Can you name one game with that type of setup?
- Maybe you're thinking about the Tron stick that used a version of the Happ Heavy Duty 8-way stick with a restrictor that made hitting diagonals more difficult but not impossible?
Getting back to the question of using an analog stick on original Battlezone hardware -- it's definitely not the right way to wire things, but you might be able to rig a pot with ground on the wiper (tab 2) and the forward and reverse inputs on tabs 1 and 3.
- Whether or not that would work depends on how the inputs respond to using variable resistors instead of microswitches.
- No idea what threshold of resistance triggers the inputs. :dunno
Scott
Arroyo:
I have a Battle Zone. The sticks are two way restricted micro switches with one trigger button on the top of the right stick.
Schematic if it’s helpful:
jennifer:
Arroyo is 100% and gave you the answer, effectively 2 sticks, 2 way (2+2) is a four way, Its not all about saving money there, I would venture to guess it was more about the feel and experience of driving a tank using 2 sticks...Tron is another good example, drive a tank with 1 four way stick, however that is not utilizing the 5k pots, and is a raster game...Food Fight has got a 4 way restricted stick with analog pots (same stick thats in Battle zone) but again a raster game...Red Baron, a sister machine to Battle Zone used not only the same cabinet in both upright and cock pit versions (and the fabled cabaret (3 supposing) but you guessed it, a X/Y deflection vector that used the same stick, a 5k analog on a 4 way 😁.
PL1:
You've been around more than long enough to know the standard meaning and usage of these terms, Jennifer. :banghead:
--- Quote from: jennifer on July 16, 2020, 09:39:22 am ---Arroyo is 100%
--- End quote ---
Agreed. His description of Battlezone sticks is accurate and complete. :cheers:
--- Quote from: jennifer on July 16, 2020, 09:39:22 am ---effectively 2 sticks, 2 way (2+2) is a four way
--- End quote ---
Using that logic, a Robotron cab with two 8-way sticks is effectively a 16-way -- same as the disc on an Intellivision controller. :dizzy: :P
--- Quote from: jennifer on July 16, 2020, 09:39:22 am ---I would venture to guess it was more about the feel and experience of driving a tank using 2 sticks
--- End quote ---
Agreed. A twin-stick setup is similar to the steering levers on the WWII-era M4 Sherman tank.
--- Quote from: jennifer on July 16, 2020, 09:39:22 am ---Tron is another good example, drive a tank with 1 four way stick
--- End quote ---
The Tron stick is an 8-way stick with a special restrictor that makes it difficult to hit diagonals.
MCP and I/O Tower level game play allows 8-way movement.
Tank and Light Cycle level game play only allows 4-way movement.
- Light cycle will zig-zag between the associated cardinal directions (i.e. up and right) if you hit a diagonal.
Nothing changes on the Tron stick based on which level you're playing, unlike Le Chuck's Darkade build that uses a stick with in-game autoswitching between 8-way and 4-way for TRON.
--- Quote from: jennifer on July 16, 2020, 09:39:22 am ---Food Fight has got a 4 way restricted stick with analog pots (same stick thats in Battle zone)
--- End quote ---
1. An analog stick is by definition not a 4-way.
An 8-bit A/D converter will output a value between 0 and 255 (28 = 256) so if anything, an analog stick with an 8-bit converter is a 65,536-way stick (2562) and an analog stick with a 10-bit A/D converter (210 = 1024) is a 1,048,576-way stick. (10242)
Since the possible number of directions isn't restricted by the analog stick itself, it's easier and more accurate to describe it using the number of axes.
If you applied the description "2-axis" to a Food Fight analog stick, that would be accurate and factually correct.
2. There is no restrictor plate on the stick so by definition it can't be a "restricted stick".
3. The Food Fight stick is definitely not the same stick that's in Battlezone -- it's not the same ballpark, not the same league, and not even the same sport. >:D
Compare page 36 of the BZ manual here to page 27 of the Food Fight manual here.
The only part that looks the same between the two sitcks is the centering bellows.
- Different part numbers for the bellows, not sure if you can substitute one for the other. :dunno
--- Quote from: jennifer on July 16, 2020, 09:39:22 am ---Red Baron
--- End quote ---
I agree that the Red Baron cab, monitor, and wiring are almost the same as Battlezone.
The relevant differences are the controls and the control wiring.
https://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=9289
--- Quote ---Except for the controller inputs, the wiring harness is nearly pin-for-pin compatible with Battlezone. Red Baron requires just two additional wires: Aux. PCB pin W to Vec/Gen PCB pin W -22VDC and Vec/Gen PCB pin L to Vec/Gen PCB pin P Ties X-invert to GND. It is possible to power up a Red Baron board in a Battlezone and vice versa, but playing the game is nearly impossible without proper controls.
--- End quote ---
Scott
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