javeryh's Woodgrain Cabaret Copy

[Arroyo]

Holy Bedjeezez, I step away for a couple of days and missed out on all this.  Wow!  that marquee and monitor look awesome!!!  Well done Javery!

I see that you have pretty much decided on the "final" version of the layout.  Personally I liked this one the best:



Just looks nice, and it looks comfortable.

If I can help with your Marquee issue, let me know.  I've had a lot of practice with HyperMarquee.

[Jimbo]

When I read the "how to play"... it took me a while to stop expecting some instructions below it (like the other 2 boxes).  Maybe it's just me, but is the "how to play" bit in the middle strictly necessary?  Can you try a version without that how to play bar in the middle?

[javeryh]

Holy Bedjeezez, I step away for a couple of days and missed out on all this.  Wow!  that marquee and monitor look awesome!!!  Well done Javery!

I see that you have pretty much decided on the "final" version of the layout.  Personally I liked this one the best:

Just looks nice, and it looks comfortable.

If I can help with your Marquee issue, let me know.  I've had a lot of practice with HyperMarquee.

Yeah... I like that one too.  I'm not sure how feasible it is though.  The trackball mounting plate is 6"x6" and the CP is only 6.5" tall.  Also, the front needs to be about 0.75" before I can drill through because of the marquee monitor sitting right underneath.  I'd also have to drill a hole in the mounting plate for the exit button (and probably lose 1 of the posts on the mounting plate).  So not a lot of wiggle room.  I'm really torn on the controls - part of me still wants to play as many games as I can so spinner/trackball are appealing but the other part of me wants simplicity above all and a more focused cabinet.  I go back and forth hourly!

As for the monitor issue - I don't have a marquee problem.  That works perfectly.  My issue is that the control board on the CRT seems to be damaged.  It is plugged into the motherboard but the green LED does not come on and I cannot access the menu.  The image needs to be readjusted - it is about 1/2" off center and is also about 1/2" smaller than it should be all the way around.  I really don't know how to fix it.

Do you remember how you set up the "press to pause / hold to exit" button in RocketLauncher?

When I read the "how to play"... it took me a while to stop expecting some instructions below it (like the other 2 boxes).  Maybe it's just me, but is the "how to play" bit in the middle strictly necessary?  Can you try a version without that how to play bar in the middle?

I messed around a bit more based on your suggestion.  I'm not sure I like it better.  The boxes need to be anchored to something.  Maybe if I changed the boxes to the left and right of "How to Play" to be arrows pointing to each box it would be more visually pleasing?

[BGoulette]

The line weight of the boxes has been bothering me: I see they mirror the heavy stroke around the controls, but they dwarf the text they surround, and the high contrast white overpowers the much lower contrast red. Have you considered reducing the weight of the white stroke around the text?

[Jimbo]

The line weight of the boxes has been bothering me: I see they mirror the heavy stroke around the controls, but they dwarf the text they surround, and the high contrast white overpowers the much lower contrast red. Have you considered reducing the weight of the white stroke around the text?

I agree - the boxes are really high contrast and in your face.  They pull your eyes away from the controls.  With thinner lines that might even make it look better without the "how to play" line across the middle?  Maybe also see if darker lines look better too?

[Arroyo]

Do you remember how you set up the "press to pause / hold to exit" button in RocketLauncher?

I'll get you some screen shots/walkthrough of the areas in the UI later today.

[javeryh]

The line weight of the boxes has been bothering me: I see they mirror the heavy stroke around the controls, but they dwarf the text they surround, and the high contrast white overpowers the much lower contrast red. Have you considered reducing the weight of the white stroke around the text?

I agree - the boxes are really high contrast and in your face.  They pull your eyes away from the controls.  With thinner lines that might even make it look better without the "how to play" line across the middle?  Maybe also see if darker lines look better too?

Hmmm... you guys may be on to something.  How about this?  The gray is more subtle than the white so now the focus is on the controls and the button names for the most part.  The bend on the front lip starts at the bottom of the last line of text so the bottom of each box wraps a little bit.



EDIT: Looking at them side by side I like this newer version a lot better.  Thanks!!

I'll get you some screen shots/walkthrough of the areas in the UI later today.

Thanks buddy - I can see the settings under General and Main tab in Rocketlauncher but I'm not sure what action to change.  I guess it would be changing "ESC" on the keyboard to long press on "P" (with "P still being pause)?

[Jimbo]

That looks much better!  The arrow heads on the sides of "how to play" negate my previous point too!

Personally, I'd put the spinner back on there tho...

[yamatetsu]

And now for something completely different.







The last one is meant to go over the rounded edge and taper out towards the coin door.

[javeryh]

And now for something completely different.

The last one is meant to go over the rounded edge and taper out towards the coin door.

I tried racing stripes in one of my (not posted) iterations and couldn't get it to work but I wasn't going straight down the middle.  You gave me an idea so I messed around a bit but I'm not sure I like it as much without the stripes.  It's almost too fancy!  Also, I'm a little concerned (in all of these designs without the spinner and trackball) that the joystick is too far from the buttons (7" from center of joystick to center of first button).



I have to say, going down the front with the stripes is a pretty cool idea.  So many possibilities!

[yamatetsu]

I tried racing stripes in one of my (not posted) iterations and couldn't get it to work but I wasn't going straight down the middle.  You gave me an idea so I messed around a bit but I'm not sure I like it as much without the stripes.  It's almost too fancy!

TBH, I think without the stripes or something, it's lacking something. Your version of the stripes is not so much in-your-face as mine, I like it. Think of that going over the edge a bit, or even down the front altogether... Ties the front with the CP, and gives you something to look at immediately.

As for the joystick being off: Mockup -> measurement transfer -> graphic design around those fix points. If it doesn't end up symmetrical, emphasize that it's asymmetrical (i. e. by moving the stripes to the right/left so that it's clearly off center).

So many possibilities!

[Gilrock]

I'd drop the instructions...I hear old machines had them....I never noticed...lol.  Plus I can't read that font.

[Arroyo]

Thanks buddy - I can see the settings under General and Main tab in Rocketlauncher but I'm not sure what action to change.  I guess it would be changing "ESC" on the keyboard to long press on "P" (with "P still being pause)?

So here's the breakdown of using the same button for multiple things in RocketLauncher.

First you have open RocketLauncher.  Make sure you have highlighted Global in the upper left-hand corner otherwise the settings you change will be on a per system basis (in your case no big deal as you are only using MAME I think).  Click on the Settings green gear icon at the top, then click on the keyboard "A" image in the picture below:



Next click on the Green + icon to add a button (or red X icon to delete), this will open up the menu to the right of it where you can choose which keyboard key will operate it:



In the example below I will be setting the "P" button for a hold of 3 seconds to exit the emulator:



Click the checkbox for Hold (as that's what we want in this case), then below type the amount of time (measured in milliseconds, so in this case 3000=3sec).  Then click on the Camera icon image and then press the keyboard button (in this case "P").

You will then notice that the field next to the camera icon gets filled in.  Alternatively once you do this enough times you can fill in the box without having to go through the steps above once you figure out the language (in the below H3000:P, is Hold for 3000 milliseconds on button "P").  Then click the floppy disk icon to save it:



Now this will work with the default pause in MAME as P is pause, so a single press would pause the game, and then a 3 second hold will exit the game.  HOWEVER, in my opinion there is a much better Pause built into RocketLauncher.  The RocketLauncher Pause gives you all kinds of useful information: original manuals of games, cabinet pictures, control panel pictures, moves list for fighting games, history of the game, how many times and for how long the game has been played on your system.  The list goes on.

If you want to check it out first you have to enable it:



Then you have to choose what button launches it (oddly it is under General Settings, and not within the pause Tab, bad design in my opinion):



If you want to get a sense of what features can be added (this just shows the tip of the iceberg but is informative, just make it past the first 45 seconds), check out this video:

[javeryh]

So here's the breakdown of using the same button for multiple things in RocketLauncher.

Thanks bud - this is really awesome info.  I was in the ballpark (had the right tab in RL) but not sure on exactly what to do to set it up.

[yamatetsu]

This is of course all kinds of wrong, but it still might give you an inkling how your cab might look like. Couldn't get the CPO on that board without seriously squishing it, so just pretend that it looks like the one you made.

[Arroyo]

Thanks bud - this is really awesome info.  I was in the ballpark (had the right tab in RL) but not sure on exactly what to do to set it up.

No problem.  If it wasn't obvious, you can also use double tap, & triple tap as well.  So really one button could have up to 4 functions.  Single Tap, double tap, triple tap, & Hold.  All for VERY different functions throughout the system.  You can go nuts on the Pause info, all kinds of cool stuff you can throw in there.

[javeryh]

This is of course all kinds of wrong, but it still might give you an inkling how your cab might look like. Couldn't get the CPO on that board without seriously squishing it, so just pretend that it looks like the one you made.

Hmmm... do I have the balls for racing stripes all the way down the front of the cabinet? Not sure.  When the marquee is lit, the front looks pretty cool as is.  I'll probably print something out just to see before placing any orders.

So I think the final design is down to these two pending any last minute additions of a trackball or spinner (someone talk me into it!):

Click for full resolution




I made the racing stripes more proportional to the overall design and I cleaned up some alignment issues.  I like the racing stripes but I also like the simplicity of the "plain" design - it's not flashy and will just kind of melt into the rest of the rather plain cabinet (which is a good thing, IMO).

[Arroyo]

Ohh, what if the racing strips flared out at the bottom ala Atari?

As for the trackball spinner, what do you plan for the next cab?  Maybe that can have either or both of those?  I do like your previous integrations if you decided to added them.

[Jimbo]

On my bartop, I use the spinner for: -

Arkanoid 1&2
Super Sprint
Out Run
Pole Position
Chase HQ
Road Blasters
Tempest
Tac/Scan
Zektor
Hot Rod
Blasteroids
Hang On
Super Hang-On
Badlands

I use the trackball for: -

Star Wars and ESB (works surprisingly well)
Space Harrier (also works surprisingly well)
Marble Madness
Centipede
Missile Command

The spinner gets used a lot for sure.  It's great for the driving games too.  Trackball not so much, but still some use.  But that's just me and the kids.

I guess if you can live without these (and probably others), then go with the controls you have.  But following on from Arroyo, if you've got no plans for another cab then maybe consider them for this one.  Personally I'd go spinner as there are more games you can play (inc driving games).  Depends on your gaming preference though of course.

And I'm gonna try one last time to persuade you to ditch the instructions that nobody will read!!!    At least humour me, and try the stripes (maybe even with the atari flare like Arroyo suggested) without the instructions to see if you like it?

[Zebidee]

Like how this cab is coming together.

Gotta say that I love the racing stripes. I was GOING to say that the CP needs an element that draws the eye downward to make the best of that curved CP edge, but racing stripes work.

You'll notice that the cab in yamatetsu's signature has an extended stripe that continues from the CP all the way down to the foot of the cab. It is a nice look and visually ties everything in together.

I also want to emphasise that I think you can use a lot less words in your instructions, and then use a larger font - make it easier to read. Many words are wasted as the context is obvious. For example, "UP/DOWN select game" is enough. Wordsmithing is part of my trade and an axiom of mine is "Less is more".

[yamatetsu]

I made the racing stripes more proportional to the overall design and I cleaned up some alignment issues.  I like the racing stripes but I also like the simplicity of the "plain" design - it's not flashy and will just kind of melt into the rest of the rather plain cabinet (which is a good thing, IMO).

You can add a bit of understatement by making the stripes grey like in the 'how to play' box.

[J_K_M_A_N]

I like the gray

J_K_M_A_N

[Mike A]

I am sure everyone will be shocked...

I don't like the stripes at all.

You have a screen, a marquee, a coin door, and a CP with graphics. You don't need anything more on the front of this cab.

[jdbailey1206]

I don't like the stripes at all.

Word.  It's an arcade cabinet not a muscle car.

[Drnick]

Click for full resolution

My vote, not that it counts for anything = This one Save the racing stripes for a racer

[Mike A]

And keep the instructions.

[Zebidee]

Wondering if this is the first cab made by a committee? 

Do whatever you want @javeryh, looking great 

[javeryh]

 

I really appreciate all of the input - it helps me work through the design and figure out what I like and don't like and how to make small improvements.  I had the general idea when I started but making the outline of the instructions smaller and gray was a brilliant suggestion and adding arrows so the "How to Play" text wasn't just floating in the middle of nowhere really made the whole design come together.  These are things I wouldn't have thought of on my own.  I guess it is just the way I work...

I am nearing the final decision - only thing up in the air now is spinner or no spinner...  I like the look of the spinner on the CP a lot more than I like it without but not including a spinner makes the cabinet 10% more comfortable to play (because you can stand completely centered instead of slightly off to the right when using the joystick).

[Jimbo]

Do you have any other cabs with spinners?  Or plans to build one?  That might help you answer it...

[jennifer]

 

[javeryh]

So I had some time today to rough in the control panel.  This is 1/2” scrap - the final CP will be 3/4” thick and I’ll route out from underneath so the joystick doesn’t sit so low.

I have to say - this is really comfortable and I’m liking the sparseness of the layout.  The admin buttons are perfect too - proportion on the 24mm pause/exit button is great and the volcano buttons are super cool.





I placed the action buttons super close to each other - I didn’t think I’d have room underneath to attach the nuts but it all fits.  I think we have a winner.  I’m going to miss out on spinner games but I’ll have to make sure to include one in the next cab.

EDIT: here’s what it looks like in the cab:

[J_K_M_A_N]

You don't think you could fit a spinner right in the middle maybe just above the joystick location? I would think it could work and it looks like it would be far enough away from the buttons and joystick.

J_K_M_A_N

[Jimbo]

What games are you actually having on the cab?

Are you squashing a load of vertical games into a horizontal monitor?

Reason I'm asking is I've just done the gamelist for my horizontal jamma cab and there were very few actual horizontal 1 player games with 3 or less buttons that I'd actually play. Most were 2 player games.

[javeryh]

You don't think you could fit a spinner right in the middle maybe just above the joystick location? I would think it could work and it looks like it would be far enough away from the buttons and joystick.

I can definitely fit the spinner - no question about it and I think it will look good.  I just have to decide if I want it or not...

What games are you actually having on the cab?

Are you squashing a load of vertical games into a horizontal monitor?

Reason I'm asking is I've just done the gamelist for my horizontal jamma cab and there were very few actual horizontal 1 player games with 3 or less buttons that I'd actually play. Most were 2 player games.

yeah... this is kind of an issue.  I have about 100 games on the list right now and lots of them are vertical so yes, I will have a bunch that I'm squashing on a horizontal monitor.  I already have a vertical cabinet (1 button/4 way only) so it's not like I can't play those games but the 2 extra buttons and the 8-way stick really open things up.

I have a feeling you are saying I should add the spinner (which I don't have on any cab) so that I'll be able to play a bunch more horizontal games...  not a terrible reason actually. 

[Jimbo]

What games are you actually having on the cab?

Are you squashing a load of vertical games into a horizontal monitor?

Reason I'm asking is I've just done the gamelist for my horizontal jamma cab and there were very few actual horizontal 1 player games with 3 or less buttons that I'd actually play. Most were 2 player games.

yeah... this is kind of an issue.  I have about 100 games on the list right now and lots of them are vertical so yes, I will have a bunch that I'm squashing on a horizontal monitor.  I already have a vertical cabinet (1 button/4 way only) so it's not like I can't play those games but the 2 extra buttons and the 8-way stick really open things up.

I have a feeling you are saying I should add the spinner (which I don't have on any cab) so that I'll be able to play a bunch more horizontal games...  not a terrible reason actually.

ok... I'm gonna say it.  It's been brooding and it's probably the last chance before you build the panel....

I'd drop the joystick completely and go for an asteroids + spinner layout.   

Here's why: -

- You've built a stunning cabaret style cabinet.  It looks very much like an asteroids cabaret and imo you should play to those strengths.  There are a ton of great classic games that you could play with a button/spinner layout (space duel, asteroids, asteroids deluxe, eliminator, zektor, star castle, gravitar, major havoc, etc).
- This would also play to the VGA CRT's specs, in that vector games would look great on it using the AAE emulator.
- You've put a lot of effort getting a CRT installed, and even down to ensuring you have a switchable 4/8 way joystick, yet you're going to squash-cram a load of vertical games onto the already-smallish horizontal monitor.  It's like you're going for authenticity with one hand then taking it away with the other.  Keep the cab to horizontal games like it's physically designed for.  You hinted at building another cab at some point - save the vertical games for that and do it properly!
- With the spinner there will be a load more driving games you get as a bonus.
- As a suggested layout, I'd go for something like:   rotate left, rotate right (on the left),  spinner and hyperspace button (in the middle), thrust and fire on the right.
- It might seem like you have less games, but the ones you have on there (it'll still be varied enough) you'll be able to play properly how they were designed to be played.  Anyone can play those games with joystick and buttons... but it ain't nowhere near as good as using the proper controls.

This would really keep the authenticity on the cab, and make it much clearer what games are on it, what the cab is for etc.  It'll look sweet and keep it perfectly in with the style of the cabaret.

Of course, this is just my opinion, and I realise it's late into the mix.  In the end mate do what YOU want, as you'll be the one playing it.

That's what I'd do though...

[javeryh]

ok... I'm gonna say it.  It's been brooding and it's probably the last chance before you build the panel....

I'd drop the joystick completely and go for an asteroids + spinner layout.   

Here's why: -

- You've built a stunning cabaret style cabinet.  It looks very much like an asteroids cabaret and imo you should play to those strengths.  There are a ton of great classic games that you could play with a button/spinner layout (space duel, asteroids, asteroids deluxe, eliminator, zektor, star castle, gravitar, major havoc, etc).
- This would also play to the VGA CRT's specs, in that vector games would look great on it using the AAE emulator.
- You've put a lot of effort getting a CRT installed, and even down to ensuring you have a switchable 4/8 way joystick, yet you're going to squash-cram a load of vertical games onto the already-smallish horizontal monitor.  It's like you're going for authenticity with one hand then taking it away with the other.  Keep the cab to horizontal games like it's physically designed for.  You hinted at building another cab at some point - save the vertical games for that and do it properly!
- With the spinner there will be a load more driving games you get as a bonus.
- As a suggested layout, I'd go for something like:   rotate left, rotate right (on the left),  spinner and hyperspace button (in the middle), thrust and fire on the right.
- It might seem like you have less games, but the ones you have on there (it'll still be varied enough) you'll be able to play properly how they were designed to be played.  Anyone can play those games with joystick and buttons... but it ain't nowhere near as good as using the proper controls.

This would really keep the authenticity on the cab, and make it much clearer what games are on it, what the cab is for etc.  It'll look sweet and keep it perfectly in with the style of the cabaret.

Of course, this is just my opinion, and I realise it's late into the mix.  In the end mate do what YOU want, as you'll be the one playing it.

That's what I'd do though...

I totally get where you are coming from.  I did strongly consider something like this in the beginning.  I don't mind getting rid of the vertical games... but I think I am going to keep the joystick.  You are right that I will be the one playing it... but so will the rest of the family and I'd hate to see it not get used because the games on it are so niche.  I think your post did convince me to include the spinner though.  I don't have one and some of the games you listed look like a lot of fun (in addition to the ones that I am familiar with).  This also makes the control panel look a more balanced to me, which I like. 

I will be cutting the gamelist down to the bare essentials with the chosen control scheme.  No nonsense in the list (hopefully).

So barring any last second changes (totally possible heh) this is the "final" art (click to enlarge):





I'm leaning towards going with the joystick on the left.  This will center the player in front of the cabinet most of the time.  In the end I've also decided to go without the racing stripes.  This looks plain to some I know but it looks elegant to me.  Now... where can I find a white spinner knob... hmmm...   

[Jimbo]

   a black spinner would look good too, if you can't find a white one!

[J_K_M_A_N]

That is a tough call on the joystick. When playing a game with buttons (probably most of them), having it on the left is perfect. When playing something like Pac Man or something with joystick only, centered is nicer. Most of what I play has at least one button so I would probably put the joystick on the left for that reason. 

J_K_M_A_N

[javeryh]

  a black spinner would look good too, if you can't find a white one!

I've got an old spinner top from a TurboTwist spinner that is all black so I'll use that with the SpinTrak I'm about to order (they are out of flywheels though grrr...).  Another reason why the spinner should be centered - white balltop - black spinner - white buttons.  It's more symmetrical.

That is a tough call on the joystick. When playing a game with buttons (probably most of them), having it on the left is perfect. When playing something like Pac Man or something with joystick only, centered is nicer. Most of what I play has at least one button so I would probably put the joystick on the left for that reason. 

I agree - I think joy on the left will work fine though - I just realized that all of my other cabinets are set up this way so I'm sure it will be fine.

Thanks guys - I think I'm going with the Joystick-Spinner-Buttons layout.  I'm placing the order tonight (finally)!

[javeryh]

CPO has arrived.  I like how it turned out.  I hope I can find the time to install it over the next week.  Work has really picked up plus the kids are back in school so I don’t seem to have as much free time to work on this stuff lately.



The plan is to round over the edge of the blank, prime and sand it back to 220 or 400 and then apply the art, trim excess and drill the holes.  Then install/wire everything. 

Seems like this should only take an afternoon but that doesn’t count all the time spent staring at it and not moving...