Sinden vs Aimtrak - Getting rid of your Aimtrak? or what’s making you hold on?

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Titchgamer:
What is supposed to be so special about those IR sensors exactly?
I cant see how they would let you get any closer as the distance is physically restricted by the view of the sensor in the gun?

As for the Sindens they are running a little late so nobody has one yet I think everyone was expecting a delay anyway as these kind of projects never hit every deadline.
I would be expecting him to send out his monthly update any time now though.

But having owned aim traks and used the prototype Sinden I would say the Sinden is far more accurate and fuss free.
It had a few minor issues but I am told Andy has ironed them out now so I am looking forward to getting my hands on the finished product once its finished :D

Zebra:

--- Quote from: Titchgamer on October 09, 2019, 07:39:13 pm ---What is supposed to be so special about those IR sensors exactly?
I cant see how they would let you get any closer as the distance is physically restricted by the view of the sensor in the gun?

As for the Sindens they are running a little late so nobody has one yet I think everyone was expecting a delay anyway as these kind of projects never hit every deadline.
I would be expecting him to send out his monthly update any time now though.

But having owned aim traks and used the prototype Sinden I would say the Sinden is far more accurate and fuss free.
It had a few minor issues but I am told Andy has ironed them out now so I am looking forward to getting my hands on the finished product once its finished :D

--- End quote ---

With the caveat that I haven't tried them yet, so I can't confirm if what they say is true, apparently the Extreme ir sensors have 120 degrees of illumination vs 20-40 degrees with the standard and extra wide sensor bars. This allows the gun to see them from the more extreme angles needed when you stand closer to the screen.

The other thing is that it is two sensor bars in one with a switch. It has two sensors spread further apart for larger monitors or projector screens (where you stand further back) and a second set close together for smaller monitors and closer (to the screen) play. It all sounds vaguely plausible to my non-technical brain but I still think the set-up would benefit from a larger and higher quality lens in the gun.

The Sinden project is exciting although it's all mute until finished product is available to order and actually in stock. For now I'm just happy to see someone finally working on improving products for this genre. All of the current and previously available home IR guns have been a big step backwards over the real light guns of yesteryear. I think we've all heard enough excuses about why they can't improve on what's available today.

Titchgamer:

--- Quote from: Zebra on October 10, 2019, 02:27:10 pm ---
--- Quote from: Titchgamer on October 09, 2019, 07:39:13 pm ---What is supposed to be so special about those IR sensors exactly?
I cant see how they would let you get any closer as the distance is physically restricted by the view of the sensor in the gun?

As for the Sindens they are running a little late so nobody has one yet I think everyone was expecting a delay anyway as these kind of projects never hit every deadline.
I would be expecting him to send out his monthly update any time now though.

But having owned aim traks and used the prototype Sinden I would say the Sinden is far more accurate and fuss free.
It had a few minor issues but I am told Andy has ironed them out now so I am looking forward to getting my hands on the finished product once its finished :D

--- End quote ---

With the caveat that I haven't tried them yet, so I can't confirm if what they say is true, apparently the Extreme ir sensors have 120 degrees of illumination vs 20-40 degrees with the standard and extra wide sensor bars. This allows the gun to see them from the more extreme angles needed when you stand closer to the screen.

The other thing is that it is two sensor bars in one with a switch. It has two sensors spread further apart for larger monitors or projector screens (where you stand further back) and a second set close together for smaller monitors and closer (to the screen) play. It all sounds vaguely plausible to my non-technical brain but I still think the set-up would benefit from a larger and higher quality lens in the gun.

The Sinden project is exciting although it's all mute until finished product is available to order and actually in stock. For now I'm just happy to see someone finally working on improving products for this genre. All of the current and previously available home IR guns have been a big step backwards over the real light guns of yesteryear. I think we've all heard enough excuses about why they can't improve on what's available today.

--- End quote ---

I would like to see one tested and reviewed. My problem is with it that for the Aim trak to work it has to be able to see that IR LED at all times.

Now this is where it seems misleading to me.
The AT’s sensor points slightly upwards so when you are pointing to the bottom of the screen it still looks up a little.
But if you are to close to the screen it still will not be able to see the top of the bars even with the increased angle.

Now if you are playing on a little 14” screen I would guess you could probably get quite close but if you are on a large screen you will still need that distance so the sensor can physically see it.

I would guess it would certainly improve tge distance required but I dont think its going to let you have the gun right against the glass like yesteryear.

Zebra:
Using a white border instead of led sensors would have the same issue with distance if it worked in the same way as an Aimtrak. I'm not sure it does though.

From the info provided on the Sinden Youtube videos, it sounded like it uses an infrared laser dot to determine where you are aiming while the white boarder just defines the screen edge for the camera. I.e. It takes a photo when you pull the trigger and calculates where in the white box the dot is after making adjustments for your angle. Perhaps it could still function if one of the white borders was out of the camera view. It seems like it could work with just two visible borders.

I guess we'll see for certain when people start receiving their finished guns. It looks like he's sitting 8 - 10 feet from the screen in all the video's. It's hard to know if this is due to a design limitation or just the guy's preference. It will matter to a lot of people if it can't be used at arcade-like distances (this was most people's number two complaint with Aimtraks after accuracy).

Titchgamer:

--- Quote from: Zebra on October 10, 2019, 03:48:12 pm ---Using a white border instead of led sensors would have the same issue with distance if it worked in the same way as an Aimtrak. I'm not sure it does though.

From the info provided on the Sinden Youtube videos, it sounded like it uses an infrared laser dot to determine where you are aiming while the white boarder just defines the screen edge for the camera. I.e. It takes a photo when you pull the trigger and calculates where in the white box the dot is after making adjustments for your angle. Perhaps it could still function if one of the white borders was out of the camera view. It seems like it could work with just two visible borders.

I guess we'll see for certain when people start receiving their finished guns. It looks like he's sitting 8 - 10 feet from the screen in all the video's. It's hard to know if this is due to a design limitation or just the guy's preference. It will matter to a lot of people if it can't be used at arcade-like distances (this was most people's number two complaint with Aimtraks after accuracy).

--- End quote ---

The sinden still has distance limitations as the camera inside the gun needs to be able to see the full border at all times to work out where it is in relation to the corners.

What makes it different to the Aim Trak is that because it uses a camera it can use a wide angle lens making the distance shorter.

I never got to testing the minimum distances and he has changed the camera since so it would be different now anyways but I was playing on my 42” screen at around 5/6 feet.

I could of gone in to around 4 I think but I then would of been sat on the floor not my comfy sofa lol

But regardless with this type of tech you will always have some kind of screen size to distance ratio.

Obviously for a 4:3 this will be less than a 16:9.

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