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Author Topic: Pac-Man Legion  (Read 64408 times)

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Zebidee

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #280 on: January 06, 2022, 06:35:17 am »
Chassis? Where Ond's going, he doesn't NEED chassis.



As usual with Ond, he apologises for the crudity of the model, for not building it to scale or painting it.
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javeryh

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #281 on: January 06, 2022, 03:08:50 pm »
:burgerki
where are you planing to fit the chasis?  :cheers:

Chasis?  What chasis?

Probably meant the typical triangular things that hold the PCB and are also used as a means to attach the monitor to the cabinet.  You aren't using it!

abispac

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #282 on: January 07, 2022, 01:39:04 am »
The tv chassis, it seems so tight in there even with the smaller tv,that makes me wonder how the chassis is gonna fit in there.

bobbyb13

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #283 on: January 07, 2022, 02:12:26 am »
Ond Magic
Plenty of room.
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

Zebidee

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #284 on: January 07, 2022, 03:01:55 am »
Some TV chassis are really quite small, especially for more modern sets. I'm impressed with these China TV chassis I've been using, they measure less than 200mm x 250mm x 100mm (to highest point, top of flyback). That compares well with most arcade monitor chassis.

Ironically, size of TV screen has little to do with size of chassis. I just RGB modded an ancient 14" National TV from around 1980 and the chassis is much larger by comparison. That 14" National is a very cute little TV, now that it has RGB (previously it only had RF input, so big improvement). My missus thinks it looks awesome, kinda both rustic and cyberpunk, and is threatening to steal it for her kitchen, prompting me to remind her that a tablet would work better. Anyway, I may keep it whole and use it for my supergun testing setup rather than pulling it apart for a cab. I've really been won over by the smaller TVs. Size isn't everything.

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Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #285 on: January 13, 2022, 08:13:08 pm »
No rules this year, just a clear idea of the desired result.






This will make more sense in the next few posts.

BadMouth

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #286 on: January 14, 2022, 05:40:04 pm »
I want to press that button and expect it to make the Pacman chomping sound.

Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #287 on: January 14, 2022, 08:49:18 pm »
I want to press that button and expect it to make the Pacman chomping sound.

I like the novelty...we'll see.

The prototype becomes the production component.


Magnetic switches exchanged for physical.


working on this every day now.

Zebidee

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #288 on: January 14, 2022, 09:07:57 pm »
I want to press that button and expect it to make the Pacman chomping sound.

I like the novelty...we'll see.

I like Badmouth's idea, and have another one - when you load up another pacman key for a new game, it could make a sound relevant to that game.
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Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #289 on: January 16, 2022, 09:59:29 pm »
I want to press that button and expect it to make the Pacman chomping sound.

I like the novelty...we'll see.

I like Badmouth's idea, and have another one - when you load up another pacman key for a new game, it could make a sound relevant to that game.

I look forward to having fun with these ideas, right now I'm on a mission.

Surface prep of eject button for priming.


Primer applied.


Spray painting of these parts completed. I sprayed the coin plate so that it perfectly matches the rest of the black finish.


The highly prized smooth black finish ;D ...


Trigger board fitted to PAC plate - brass (non-magnetic) trigger pins visible.  I'm going to swap the PAC eject pin for a brass one to match the trigger pins, the one visible is aluminum.


View of trigger board including micro-switches.  In the end, just more reliable and robust than the magnetic reed switch solution.


PAC plate with additional components (yet to be painted) shown, plus clear lens fitted to plate.


Next assembly of PAC plate into side panel plate.

bobbyb13

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #290 on: January 17, 2022, 02:51:53 am »
I love this.

Anything special with the paint to go on the plastic button?

It's slways been drama to get good adhesion to plastic for me.

Id est, I have never gotten it to work!
 :lol
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

Zebidee

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #291 on: January 17, 2022, 07:17:17 am »
Nice work Ond

I'd be worried about the paint interfering with the normal smooth operation of the button, and/or the paint wearing off from use  ???

Got any take-away tips for achieving the "highly prized smooth black finish ;D"?
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yotsuya

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #292 on: January 17, 2022, 01:31:08 pm »
Nice work Ond

I'd be worried about the paint interfering with the normal smooth operation of the button, and/or the paint wearing off from use  ???
I agree.


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PL1

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #293 on: January 17, 2022, 02:19:20 pm »
Nice work Ond

I'd be worried about the paint interfering with the normal smooth operation of the button, and/or the paint wearing off from use  ???
I agree.
Agreed.

Have you considered using a white button and Rit Dye?
- Jdbailey1206 has a great tutorial in his Fix It Felix build.   ;D

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,135095.msg1422168.html#msg1422168

Before:


After:



Scott

Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #294 on: January 17, 2022, 02:35:54 pm »
I love this.

Anything special with the paint to go on the plastic button?

It's slways been drama to get good adhesion to plastic for me.

Id est, I have never gotten it to work!
 :lol

Nice work Ond

I'd be worried about the paint interfering with the normal smooth operation of the button, and/or the paint wearing off from use  ???
I agree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All the same question/concern so I'll spend a bit of time covering it. The cab is painted in the same way all over regardless of the underlying material. Any surface, to ensure good paint adhesion needs to be prepped by sanding it with 400-600 grit. In terms of paint, at a microscopic level the surface becomes all roughed up. Whether it's plastic, mdf or metal its all the same, automotive primer is applied and sanded to a thin (but vital) coating. The black auto paint I'm using is very tough and durable.  This particular button won't be used for gaming, just ejecting the PAC now and then. I understand the concern, ordinary paint applied straight onto glossy plastic would not be a durable solution.  In terms of mechanical tolerance, these Happ buttons have a lot space to play with, the buttons float around like a boat in the sea LOL. Anyway, lots of pics and video to show what I'm doing to come.

@ PL1 - nope, because the look of a dyed button is not good enough. I want the same dull black surface for all black components i.e. matching.

I give any project materials a lot of consideration and all my years experience with paint etc goes into that.  Trust.

Here's the button after cutting back the primer -ready for paint. Plenty of play in it.



pbj

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #295 on: January 17, 2022, 03:16:52 pm »
Just put a 60 in 1 this and be done with it.  What possible color is this button going to be that you couldn't buy off the shelf?


Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #296 on: January 17, 2022, 03:23:59 pm »
Just put a 60 in 1 this and be done with it.  What possible color is this button going to be that you couldn't buy off the shelf?

You're only half paying attention aren't you?

Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #297 on: January 17, 2022, 06:51:58 pm »
The PAC eject button, painted and in fitted to the plate. Mechanical tolerance is still fine, the action is clean. The black finish looks and feels a lot like a hard laminate surface when completely dry.




pbj

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #298 on: January 17, 2022, 06:55:18 pm »
I am trying to save you from yourself.  This is an intervention.


Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #299 on: January 17, 2022, 07:05:08 pm »
Nahh you're just faffing up my thread, but it's all good, at least you're still posting  :cheers:

Also we both have cool avatars now, just saying...

javeryh

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #300 on: January 17, 2022, 07:10:27 pm »
Looking good Ond.  How much work is left?  You have a lot of pieces fabricated already...

Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #301 on: January 17, 2022, 07:17:40 pm »
Looking good Ond.  How much work is left?  You have a lot of pieces fabricated already...

Thanks javeryh, not much left to do in terms of making parts.  This fiddly stuff is nearly done, then it will be on to painting the other parts, panels etc.  The nice thing about this cab is that it all bolts together quite easily.  It means I can paint and assemble/disassemble at my leisure.

The coin plate is nice but the coin mech's that came with it are very cheap looking.  I might see about ordering some better electronic mechs to fit it.

bobbyb13

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #302 on: January 17, 2022, 10:35:23 pm »
Urethanes it is!
Are you using catalysed stuff?
It is the only thing I've had luck with in getting to stick to fiberglass, either polyested or epoxy.
The irony of something that is so flexible and yet so durable in regard to the PPG stuff I have landed on as the best still confounds me.

And I dig the look.
It really does look like formica laminate, doesn't it?!  :cheers:

Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

Zebidee

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #303 on: January 18, 2022, 12:52:15 am »
Urethanes it is!
Are you using catalysed stuff?
It is the only thing I've had luck with in getting to stick to fiberglass, either polyested or epoxy.
The irony of something that is so flexible and yet so durable in regard to the PPG stuff I have landed on as the best still confounds me.

And I dig the look.
It really does look like formica laminate, doesn't it?!  :cheers:

I think the real trick is in the surface preparation
Check out my completed projects!


Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #304 on: January 18, 2022, 11:08:42 pm »

Are you using catalysed stuff?


I'm using high quality (not cheap!) solvent based auto paint, no catalyst. When it's properly dry its very tough, even wet sanding it, it takes ages to cut back.  Adhesion on the primer base is really good.  That's why I'm unconcerned about wear and tear on the painted button.  With some effort you could scratch it with a sharp metal implement but otherwise it should endure normal finger presses for quite some time.  In comparison if you directly painted say, acrylic house paint or poster paint onto these shiny buttons, with no prep, you could easily scratch that off with just a finger nail, I'd expect it to just peel off as well. That's quite a different matter altogether.

I think the real trick is in the surface preparation

This is correct, as I said previously all surfaces get the same sanding prep and primer treatment, all in all, surface prep + auto paint + moderate spray painting skill = the results you see. I learned this process from a skilled auto spray painter.

Quite a few pics coming up to mark the end of this build phase. I'm setting aside the PAC mechanism for now to focus on the cabinet build again.

The last few little parts for the PAC plate fabricated and painted.



These parts screwed in place to the PAC plate.


The rear of the PAC plate showing the modified Happ button in use in the PAC eject mechanism.


The PAC plate screwed into place in the steel side panel  insert.


This is what was in my head...now made real!  ;)  Imagine how many words it would take to describe that, no one would understand a rambling description of that anyhow  :dunno


PAC prototype in place.   I've got my quote to get 16 of these laser CNC cut (including blue acrylic eyes) which I'll get done towards the end of the build.


Time for a well earned beer  :cheers:

bobbyb13

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #305 on: January 19, 2022, 12:09:17 am »
Geez Ond, impressive in theory and even cooler in reality.

I like how simplified (and probably far more robust?!) your physical switch solution is vs. the reed switch method proposed.

 :cheers:
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #306 on: January 19, 2022, 10:59:02 am »
OND I still can't get over how amazing your black finishes look.  Would love it if you could put together a step by step, video or otherwise to see your magic techniques in action.  Maybe one day I could feel confident enough to try it then. :) :cheers:

10yard

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #307 on: January 19, 2022, 12:23:50 pm »
The concept of this Pac mechanism is genius.  Looking good too.  Thanks for the pics.
Check out my Donkey Kong Arcade Frontend at https://github.com/10yard/dkafe#readme

javeryh

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #308 on: January 19, 2022, 01:08:04 pm »
OND I still can't get over how amazing your black finishes look.  Would love it if you could put together a step by step, video or otherwise to see your magic techniques in action.  Maybe one day I could feel confident enough to try it then. :) :cheers:

Done.  http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=158178.0

Gilrock

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #309 on: January 19, 2022, 01:39:58 pm »
OND I still can't get over how amazing your black finishes look.  Would love it if you could put together a step by step, video or otherwise to see your magic techniques in action.  Maybe one day I could feel confident enough to try it then. :) :cheers:

Done.  http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=158178.0

I looked at that awhile back and read "Patience" and said I'm out...lol.

Ond

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #310 on: January 20, 2022, 07:43:04 pm »
Geez Ond, impressive in theory and even cooler in reality.

I like how simplified (and probably far more robust?!) your physical switch solution is vs. the reed switch method proposed.

 :cheers:

Glad you like bobby, conceptually, I really liked the magnetic reed switch approach. After much testing and 'messing about' my confidence in it decreased. The tiny fragile reed switches, which are mechanical in nature anyway, are not as robust as this solution.

OND I still can't get over how amazing your black finishes look.  Would love it if you could put together a step by step, video or otherwise to see your magic techniques in action.  Maybe one day I could feel confident enough to try it then. :) :cheers:

Thanks, that black paint has taken some getting used to.  I have more experience doing high/ultra gloss finishes. I'm glad I found it.  Apart from that paint guide link I will be doing more videos featuring painting methods (and other stuff).  Subscribe to my new youtube channel and never miss a video!  ;D 


The concept of this Pac mechanism is genius.  Looking good too.  Thanks for the pics.

Glad you like and I'm happy to share!  :cheers:

OND I still can't get over how amazing your black finishes look.  Would love it if you could put together a step by step, video or otherwise to see your magic techniques in action.  Maybe one day I could feel confident enough to try it then. :) :cheers:

Done.  http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=158178.0

I looked at that awhile back and read "Patience" and said I'm out...lol.

You know the saying about perseverance mattering a whole lot more than talent?  :D

The cab is in various states of unfinished in terms of surface finish and painting as you can see.


Before I go any further with anything I need to rebate the top panel. Toughened 6mm glass will go into the top and the underside of the panel needs to be rebated to allow the CRT to fit close to the glass.


I don't have the luxury of a CNC so I need to struggle through it with good old power tools.

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #311 on: January 20, 2022, 11:19:10 pm »
The frame hiding in there is very cool.

Slick design work there sir!

Is that yoke an element of carrying the tube as well as being such a cool control panel support?
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #312 on: January 21, 2022, 12:13:58 am »
Hey bobby, the control panel support is purely to support the CPs, designed to look minimal on the outside of the cab but in reality strong and beefy on the inside.

I routed out the first rebate for the top plate and it just got too damn hot to wear my PPE any longer.

I canna take the heat no moah mon!


So I know I can be stubborn and single minded when it comes to certain things but,... I'm starting  to have doubts about the 27" CRT.  Not because of the tight fit but because of the play-ability/view issue. I regulary sit at the cab to check the ergonomics of the thing.  Do my knees fit under the CP? - check, Are the controls comfortable and easy to reach? - check, is the view of the playing field good for game-play...umm, well, kinda.  It sure is big, possibly too big...  Here's my dilemma, I love the big screen, bathing in its gorgeous glow, but a little voice is telling me it sucks for good game play.  If this was an upright cab - no problem, 27" even 32" no problem, but sitting at the angle you do with cocktail cabs changes that.  Out of interest can anyone tell me what size the actual Midway Pac-Man monitor was?

*sigh* I don't always get things right. This may be one of those times.

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #313 on: January 21, 2022, 12:19:31 am »
Personally I think 21Ē is more than enough for a vertical classics cab. Size isnít everything :)
Check out my completed projects!


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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #314 on: January 21, 2022, 01:34:16 am »
Good shot!
I'm with you both on this one.

Damn near every tube I can get my hands on out here is a 27" and form factor (read- viewing angle I suppose?!) certainly has great bearing on ergonomics of distance to eyeballs from screen face.

The cocktail-ish cab here has a 27" tube whose screen face apex is 26.5" from the floor and the leading edges of underside of control panel boxes (as they pitch downward toward the screen) that are 24.5" from the floor.

I'm 5'11" and the layout was for a 20"-22" tall stool, but the viewing angle for me is much nicer when I am sitting on a 24" high stool (and I only get my knees under the CP and not my thighs the way I assumed it had to be.)

I could have dropped the screen even more but worried that it would feel like it was "way down in that hole" and make the veiwing angle really undesirable- like you are staring over the ege of a cliff kind of thing.
It has been SO long since I have seen a real cocktail cabinet that I can't pass judgement on dimensions/ergonomics of originals.

Apart from for a MAME cab that would run both vertical and horizontal games on the same tube, I am now a fan of 19"-21" tubes like Andrew for sure.

Maybe a 25" is a functional max for a cocktail...?
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #315 on: January 21, 2022, 03:45:30 am »
Out of interest can anyone tell me what size the actual Midway Pac-Man monitor was?

I think most classic era cocktail tables had monitors no larger than 20", for example the Sanyo 20EZ (which I think is actually a 19" monitor). Some cocktails had screens as small as 14". Can't think of any original arcade games that had a 25" or 27" in a cocktail, I don't think they exist outside of hobbyist projects. You don't need the screen to be very big, it is right there in front of your eyes. Also, like bobby says, the curve away from you is just too much.

I have some plans for a recreation Galaga/Pacman cocktail, and it calls for a 19" monitor.
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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #316 on: January 21, 2022, 02:02:17 pm »
Project looks great. 

Midway cocktails had 19" monitors.  I bet you get used to the 27" real quick once you have it set up.  In my experience with almost any screen, it looks huge at first but within a month I'm thinking, "hmmm... could have actually gone bigger."

pbj

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #317 on: January 21, 2022, 02:37:08 pm »
Class of 81 cocktails had monitors bigger than 19".  25" or 27" I imagine.  Go big or go home.

Zebidee

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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #318 on: January 21, 2022, 06:55:45 pm »
Prove it or go home ^_^

Last week I showed my wife my hulking monster 14" of RGB mod last week and she couldn't stop "ooooo"-ing and "ahhhhh"-ing, so "cute".

Size isn't everything, it just needs to be the right fit.
Check out my completed projects!


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Re: Pac-Man Legion
« Reply #319 on: January 21, 2022, 07:46:17 pm »
I googled the "Class of 1981" release cocktail indeed it is a real cab, same size as original but somehow they crammed a 25" CRT into it. Nice looking cabs. However these units were produced around 2000/2001, not in the 80's. For example

https://pinballandmore.com/ms-pac-man-galaga-class-of-81-reunion-cocktail-arcade-game/



« Last Edit: January 21, 2022, 07:48:17 pm by Zebidee »
Check out my completed projects!