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| dkersten:
--- Quote from: BadMouth on January 12, 2018, 07:00:36 am ---How did you arrive at the speaker placement? I would have settled for 2 subs up front in order to get the left and right channels further apart (but not so far as to be in the corner of the room). Have you done any experimenting with the 18 to see if there are going to be any problem frequencies? The perfect cabinet in theory often sounds like crap in a room. Sometimes you have to experiment and adjust the design around problem frequencies. --- End quote --- Speaker placement is not completely final. I am considering pushing the left and right out a bit further and either running subs side by side on each side of the center or just adding a little space between the inner subs and the LR's. But that is not for bass considerations, it is to help the room imaging. Ideally the Atmos speakers will be lined up with the left and right mains so in order to keep it close to Dolby spec I think I need a little more separation. I will also toe in the waveguides toward the main listening position. As for subs, I have played around with REW to place the 6 18" subs in various locations to see if I can get close to flat response in my primary seating location. There are several ways to get good bass response, one of those creative placement of the subwoofers throughout the room. Another is add more subs to tame the room modes. I don't really have the luxury of putting subs on the sides because it will ruin the aesthetic of the room or force design choices I don't want. So I settled on 4 up front and 2 in the back. I considered going with a couple near field subs built into the riser firing directly into the back of the front row, but ultimately there are too many reasons not to do this. I tried running a couple near field subs in my last theater and didn't like it - the bass was too localized. As for overkill, I had 2 of the same 18" subs running off one 6kw amp in my last theater and that room was only 1275 cu ft. It was OK, but I wanted a little more. I drove those subs to the maximum capacity of both the speakers and the amp on a regular basis and while it was pretty awesome, I always wanted just a little more. This new space is 4000 cu ft, over 3 times larger. So 6 18" subs would technically get me what I had before, tripling the power gives me a bit more, and going ported instead of sealed doubles it up again. I should only have around 6 db more than I had in my last theater (around 130db total) which will get me where I want to be. That will be fairly flat down to about 13hz. Keep in mind, an IMax theater can do over 120db on the subs, and frankly that it is fairly tame. And in comparison to car audio, I had 4 10" subs in a toyota pickup that did 145db, so this is actually mild compared to even a basic system in a car. But the purpose of this system is not to sit and listen to droning bass music, it's for the dynamic sound of an action movie. I like feeling the gunshots and explosions. But 99% of most movies are playing well under 90db even on a system like this. The room will be heavily treated acoustically as well. Anyone who really knows audio knows that you could put $50 speakers in the right room and they would sound better than $500,000 speakers in a bad room. Most of my money is going into making the room sound good. I am starting with a soundproof shell (double 5/8" drywall over resilient clips and hat channel) that will keep the sound contained, but more importantly, keep sounds from the rest of the house and neighborhood out. A typical quiet room has a noise floor around 35-40db, I am targeting under 20db in this room, which means I can run a movie at lower volume and still hear every detail. Then once the room is built out, a mix of absorbtion and diffusion panels will be placed around the room based on recommendations by acoustical engineers. The entire riser will be built to act as a bass trap to counteract room modes and resonant frequencies, and the front sound stage will have significant absorption in the corners for more bass trapping. On top of all this, I run Dirac Live sound processing which does a really good job of handling room modes and cancelling out resonant frequencies in the subs. Finally, seating position is key here. I don't have the money for expensive processors that would allow me to run more pairs of speakers and dial the room in so every seating position sounds good, so I am targeting the "money seats" that will be used most often. I made sure not to place them at the 1/2 or 1/3 points to avoid those really bad cancellation spots. The goal is still to get it to sound good in all 8 seats, but I want it to sound best from MY seat. Finally, Yes, it may seem like crazy overkill to some of you, but over the years I have tried all sorts of various lifestyle upgrades, from outdoor spaces, to a decked out woodshop, to game rooms (arcades, pool table, etc), to all sorts of various hobbies like snowmobiling, boating, classic cars, drag racing, etc. And the two places where my invested time and money was actually being utilized after the build stage was in the theater room and in the shop. So when I built this house I built it around the shop and theater spaces. I chose the floor plan based primarily on the ability to accommodate these spaces. To me it is a good use of my money and time, and I enjoy building it all as much as I do using it. I was interested in whether others here have played with Sketchup, but I guess I am also interested in what you would do if you could build your dream space in your home? Whether that is a shop, an arcade, a workstation, a great kitchen, a "green" house, or whatever, if you had the money, no debt to worry about, kids all grown up, etc, what would you build? |
| Mike A:
--- Quote ---Anyone who really knows audio knows that you could put $50 speakers in the right room and they would sound better than $500,000 speakers in a bad room. --- End quote --- You really should consult someone who knows what they are doing. ::) |
| BadMouth:
--- Quote from: Mike A on January 12, 2018, 12:59:14 pm --- --- Quote ---Anyone who really knows audio knows that you could put $50 speakers in the right room and they would sound better than $500,000 speakers in a bad room. --- End quote --- You really should consult someone who knows what they are doing. ::) --- End quote --- The examples are a bit extreme, but I agree that proper placement and sometimes room treatment are indeed more important factors than the price of the speakers. |
| Mike A:
Both are important. You can place bad speakers as expertly as you want. They will still sound bad. Good speakers are a lot more forgiving of placement. |
| Howard_Casto:
What you said is correct, but why would you spend more money just so you can skip setting things up the right way? I'm not saying you can't get better quality if you put more money into it, but what exactly does one do with a home theatre with speakers that high end? Do you invite a hundred people over for a viewing or something? Myself I thought the whole point of a home cinema was the fact that you don't have to replicate all the bad things of a public one.... you know.... all the people. ;) As for what I would build.... isn't that obvious? The bridge of the Enterprise D. Put the whole room on a hydraulic rig for feedback, put some arcade controls on the comm, put a wheel on one of the other stations. Then you are good to go for movies, video games, sims, or drinking tea in the ready room and telling kids to get off my damn bridge. :D |
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